Eod maps are Atrociously Optimized.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 10/25/2022 at 7:42 PM, Randulf.7614 said:

Prob the radioactive grass

You forgot about the funky trees whose bark and leaves radiate brightly even in the shadow. 👍

[Einsof.1457]

With all respect, as a game develops, its engines, graphical ability, etc. also increases. This has happened with every MMO, including WoW, Everquest, FFXI, guild wars 1 (which isnt an mmo but still). I recommend increasing your hardware power to fully enjoy the new maps, as they use vastly more graphical power than the old vanilla gw2 maps. If you have a gaming pc that was mid-high tier around 2017, you should be good.  Have a great day!

Edited October 27, 2022 by Einsof.1457

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Giovanelli.6071 said:

Aye, I'm definitely going to be getting myself a proper desktop, once I have the money to do so. I'm so tired of laptops, especially since they just don't have the same feel to me as a desktop does.

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8300H CPU @ 2.30GHz   2.30 GHz

8.00 GB (7.85 GB usable)

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti

So, 8GB of RAM is technically enough. I mean, here are the minimum requirements that Anet has for GW2 but also see how they are higher for EoD. The minimum requirement there is 6GB RAM. And that's the minimum settings. So if a map is not properly optimized then you run into trouble quickly. Especially if you have something like the internet or a music program open or indeed Discord. But also the running OS takes up a few GB as well. So as soon as there is an optimization issue (which is normal for MMOs really), you'd be stuffed instantly.

Oddly I couldn't find any recommended settings, so not sure if Anet shared those.

And I hear ya, I personally don't like laptops either. My wife has a gaming laptop that's about 2.5 years old and she's happy with it. Plays GW2 just fine at the highest settings (1080p), but yeah, the hardware is better. Frankly, that they call this a gaming laptop with a 1050 Ti and 8GB RAM is rather a bit deceptive imo, but that's marketing for ya.

 

 

 

[Ruisenior.6342]

Welcome to Guild Wars 2

[branwen.1049]

29 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

So, 8GB of RAM is technically enough. I mean, here are the minimum requirements that Anet has for GW2 but also see how they are higher for EoD. The minimum requirement there is 6GB RAM. And that's the minimum settings. So if a map is not properly optimized then you run into trouble quickly. Especially if you have something like the internet or a music program open or indeed Discord. But also the running OS takes up a few GB as well. So as soon as there is an optimization issue (which is normal for MMOs really), you'd be stuffed instantly.

Oddly I couldn't find any recommended settings, so not sure if Anet shared those.

And I hear ya, I personally don't like laptops either. My wife has a gaming laptop that's about 2.5 years old and she's happy with it. Plays GW2 just fine at the highest settings (1080p), but yeah, the hardware is better. Frankly, that they call this a gaming laptop with a 1050 Ti and 8GB RAM is rather a bit deceptive imo, but that's marketing for ya.

Yeah -- the funny thing is, I can (usually) run through large-group content with okay FPS and very few drops in that, but actually loading into a map can either be nigh-instantaneously, or take a full minute with no real indication why (it does this on low and high pop maps equally, but especially on EoD maps).

I definitely don't trust gaming laptop companies anymore after the troubles I've had (my first one died not even a week after my store-bought warranty ran out because of course it did lmao); I'm glad your wife likes hers and doesn't have any issues! Laptops are nice for me when I want to get some writing done while not at my desk, but for much else, I just can't stand 'em anymore.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Giovanelli.6071

[Gehenna.3625]

50 minutes ago, Giovanelli.6071 said:

Yeah -- the funny thing is, I can (usually) run through large-group content with okay FPS and very few drops in that, but actually loading into a map can either be nigh-instantaneously, or take a full minute with no real indication why (it does this on low and high pop maps equally, but especially on EoD maps).

I definitely don't trust gaming laptop companies anymore after the troubles I've had (my first one died not even a week after my store-bought warranty ran out because of course it did lmao); I'm glad your wife likes hers and doesn't have any issues! Laptops are nice for me when I want to get some writing done while not at my desk, but for much else, I just can't stand 'em anymore.

I don't know the specific ins and outs but group content afaik is more CPU dependent than anything else. And group content is generally instanced, so that helps. WvW maps are larger but then they don't have as much flashy or intricate stuff in it I suppose.

It's tricky to get into detail what is dependent on CPU, GFX card, RAM, SSD/HDD or a combination thereof. Then there's the OS, graphics settings, resolution and monitor, refresh rate and even which cables you use to connect a monitor to a PC and all that. I mean I know some stuff about it but I don't call myself remotely an expert.

I do have a good friend who knows a lot more about it and I've learned a thing or two from technical sections of game forums but overall, you really do want to take an interest into understanding at least the basics of it and having a friend that can help you figure it out is definitely a good thing lol. Don't trust the companies, they're just trying to sell you something. So I would suggest before buying something new, to have it checked by one of your more computer savvy friends.

[Witch of Steam.5138]

After Even more experimentation 

it seems that Both EOD and POF have these issues. 

With POF causing Smaller overall memory leaks. 

I'm beginning to believe one of the recent updates broke something and They just haven't been informed about it. 

Or that people tried to inform them about it but as per the usual were Met with a Host of " AkSHUAYLLY itsh your computer "  despite Dozens of similar experiences across multiple different setups 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Witch of Steam.5138

[Zephire.8049]

7 hours ago, Andy.5981 said:

What I find interesting in this thread, indeed all threads like this, is the lack of information about settings/programs running etc.,

Saying I have X Processor Y Memory and Z Graphics card really isn't very helpful. Sure GW2 should run perfectly smooth on these high end bits of kit but we all know that this is only part of the picture. The game was released in 2012. The code is likely older.

What OS are you using? What additional programs are running on your machine? Post a picture of the graphic settings you have set in game. What is the version number of the graphic card driver?

Sure it may well be a problem with the maps, but a little more information would be useful, particularly the in game settings.

 

• OS: Windows 10
• CPU: Intel i5 2.9ghz
• GPU: Intel UHD 630 8GB
• RAM: 16GB
• MOBO: MSI B460
• Other programs: Logitech Gaming Software, Windows Defender, n52te. If I'm feeling spicy, Malwarebytes and Task Manager as well.
• Resolution: ~10"x5" window on a 23.5" 1080p monitor (custom size through trial and error)
• Settings: Literally everything turned the lowest it can go and max model culling and lowest draw distance.

All drivers are the most recent ones. I don't expect the game to be pretty but there's zero reason EoD should cause RAM to spike to 12+ GB and have the GPU spike to 8GB in an isolated part of EoD but hit 8-10GB of RAM and 6GB of GPU RAM during massive open world metas with ~100 other people there.

Something on the game's end is off because while my specs are certainly low these days, they still meet or exceed the minimum specs Anet lists for EoD—released less than a year ago where nothing new has been added so should still be relevant—and I would expect to at least be able to zone in to the New Kaineng chest without my computer screaming at me that it's out of RAM and the CPU hitting max usage even if I couldn't do the EoD metas due to the sheer number of people there.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

Is there a place in an EoD map where you can reliably cause this issue to happen?  I’d be interested to try it out as I have yet to experience any significant issues with EoD since it’s launch and since DX11 updated left Beta. 

[Witch of Steam.5138]

1 hour ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Is there a place in an EoD map where you can reliably cause this issue to happen?  I’d be interested to try it out as I have yet to experience any significant issues with EoD since it’s launch and since DX11 updated left Beta. 

I see it in The Isle of Reflection And pretty much Every EOD map 

[ugrakarma.9416]

14 hours ago, Witch of Steam.5138 said:

After Even more experimentation 

it seems that Both EOD and POF have these issues. 

With POF causing Smaller overall memory leaks. 

I'm beginning to believe one of the recent updates broke something and They just haven't been informed about it. 

Or that people tried to inform them about it but as per the usual were Met with a Host of " AkSHUAYLLY itsh your computer "  despite Dozens of similar experiences across multiple different setups 

problably something on last months, 

because i did DE metas near release, even "Cantha meta train". i was on [REQ] requiem guild daily DE meta, then a bit before the guild become inactive, theses memory loads started to happen.

 

i quit EoD meta trains because of this.

 

These ppl talking about hardware trying blaming users have no clue what they talk about, hardware don't cause memory leaks, its a software side problem. Even the loss of fps is just a side effect of overall system overloaded. 

 

 

 

 

[ugrakarma.9416]

14 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Is there a place in an EoD map where you can reliably cause this issue to happen?  I’d be interested to try it out as I have yet to experience any significant issues with EoD since it’s launch and since DX11 updated left Beta. 

Meta train.

 

The most weird is when Soon Woon meta end. Players leaving the map in a "normal" gw2 map relief traffick or texture loading, but in DE meta when ppl start leaving, its become worse. This map just keep loading and loading stuff for no reason.

 

 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Regarding RAM usage, alot of players underestimate how much memory their system needs for modern OSes and apps. Just the OS alone usually needs about 1-2GB, and your web browser usually needs another ~2GB on top of that, especially if you have alot of tabs open. The game itself on the 64-bit client requires at least 6GB of RAM with high textures and shaders, because all resources have to be loaded into memory and preprocessed before being uploaded to the GPU, it doesn't just get uploaded to VRAM and then magically disappear like some would expect.

 

The formats used by games and by the hardware are often incompatible with one another, so many resources have to remain shadowed in RAM so the game can still access them.

 

The big gotcha, that alot of people don't understand, is something called a disk cache. This ancient technology from way back in the late 80s/early 90s, is responsible for the bulk of the performance out of your system, because disk I/O even on SSDs is infinitely slower than memory, and even moreso on a game like this one with a massive 60GB data file and lazy loading of models. If you're already at the memory limit of your system (say, 6GB for the game and 2GB for the OS/background apps), you have no disk cache, none. At this point of all of your disk I/O becomes flat, essentially raw, with only a small cache on the disk itself. This is like driving a car with low oil, the engine has no lubrication and can run rough, stall out or even seize up completely.

 

For best performance, you really need as much disk cache as memory used. This means you need, on average, twice the amount of memory that you use at any given time with the OS, background apps and the game you're running. This is just how computers work; disk I/O will never be the same speed as RAM, its just impossible, and SSDs aren't nearly as fast as people think they are, with even the best ones being only as fast as RAM from 1997. Even under ideal circumstances, accessing files on your disk is like loading them from the memory of a 486.

 

This gets even worse if you don't have enough VRAM and the system has to swap textures to and from system RAM in order to make up for the lack of GPU memory. Running the game in DirectX11 (High) mode needs at least 3GB of VRAM to avoid texture-swapping entirely, and running the game on the Vulkan translation layer DXVK, either on Windows or Linux, needs 4GB minimum again due to multiple layers of resource shadowing being neccessary.

 

TL;DR: Don't try to run the game on 8GB unless your settings are very low. You might manage with 12GB, but you really need 16GB especially if you have a newer version of Windows and a web browser, etc. running at all times. Remember that the graphics settings are also not linear, because GPUs work in two dimensions, so when you increase the resolution, texture size, or shader complexity, the load is increasing exponentially.

 

Learn more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_cache

Edited October 28, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Ruisenior.6342]

This game runs bad even on high end pcs. Shame

[Mungo Zen.9364]

I’ve been running around the game and can’t get it to use more than 3GB System Memory. Whenever I swap maps it resets to about 2.3-2.6GB usage. Ran with zerg on a few world bosses, mad king lab, sat in a couple EoD maps for a while. Nothing seems to create the issues reported here.

The only offender for graphic issues is the lag for textures loading in Arborstone, typically mount skins but sometimes armor and weapons. 
 

Is it possible that the issue is with graphics memory?  I’m using an AMD 6700XT with 12GB onboard for video and it constantly shows 65-75% usage.  Proc AMD 5800x and 16gig RAM. 

[ugrakarma.9416]

1 hour ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I’ve been running around the game and can’t get it to use more than 3GB System Memory. Whenever I swap maps it resets to about 2.3-2.6GB usage. Ran with zerg on a few world bosses, mad king lab, sat in a couple EoD maps for a while. Nothing seems to create the issues reported here.

The only offender for graphic issues is the lag for textures loading in Arborstone, typically mount skins but sometimes armor and weapons. 
 

Is it possible that the issue is with graphics memory?  I’m using an AMD 6700XT with 12GB onboard for video and it constantly shows 65-75% usage.  Proc AMD 5800x and 16gig RAM. 

thats a clue, graphic card memory dumping on main memory instead of video-memory, that could occur even due some game configuration or drive, i will post mine when i get to home.

i run a nvidia(i dont remeber which one, i have 2 computers, lol).

Edited October 28, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[ugrakarma.9416]

well its seems really a memory leak on EOD maps.

 

I have a character parked in arborstone, started the game, i leave arborstone to eye of north did the Battle of LA, come to LA, and the game keep loading chuncks and chunks of memory even if just standing in LA.

 

The same didn't happen to any character that wasnt initially parked at arborstone...

 

So theres some persistent memory leak on EOD maps.

Edited November 13, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[patton the great.7126]

Upgrade from toaster to a modern pc, you'll notice quite the difference!

[Jukhy.2431]

I was curious about this so did some testing. On my system both the FPS (80-160) and total memory usage (45-50%) are around same levels on all maps (core, expansions and lws). The FPS does go way down (40-60) in metas etc. populated events even with char model limit on lowest but I'd say that's normal for everyone. And the game does use bit more memory the longer I play but that shouldn't surprise anyone either.

i9-10850K, 3070 Ti, 16GB of DDR4 (3600MHz cl16), 49" widescreen (1440p 120Hz). Win10 and GW2 installed on M.2 NVMe SSD. I also have the OS pagefile set to maximum size (3x system memory) since I have plenty of unused storage space.

Edit: oh and I do use Dx11 which has been working great for me.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Jukhy.2431
added info

[Gehenna.3625]

On 10/27/2022 at 10:59 PM, Zephire.8049 said:

• OS: Windows 10
• CPU: Intel i5 2.9ghz
• GPU: Intel UHD 630 8GB
• RAM: 16GB
• MOBO: MSI B460
• Other programs: Logitech Gaming Software, Windows Defender, n52te. If I'm feeling spicy, Malwarebytes and Task Manager as well.
• Resolution: ~10"x5" window on a 23.5" 1080p monitor (custom size through trial and error)
• Settings: Literally everything turned the lowest it can go and max model culling and lowest draw distance.

All drivers are the most recent ones. I don't expect the game to be pretty but there's zero reason EoD should cause RAM to spike to 12+ GB and have the GPU spike to 8GB in an isolated part of EoD but hit 8-10GB of RAM and 6GB of GPU RAM during massive open world metas with ~100 other people there.

You may want to check the specs for EoD in Steam and in the shop. They haven't updated the ones in the help-area. It's really not a good thing that Anet forgot to update that page. So here's the actual minimum requirements:

MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

WINDOWS Minimum System Requirements

• Windows® 7 or better (64 bit only)
• Intel®i3 3.4 GHz / AMD Athlon x4 3.8 GHz or better
• 8 GB RAM
• NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 680 / AMD Radeon HD 7970 / Intel Iris 600 series
• 70GB available HDD space
• Broadband Internet connection
• Keyboard and mouse

*Note: Due to potential changes, system requirements may change over time and you may be required to upgrade your current system (or obtain a new system) to continue to play the game.

This is from the shop page under EoD. So no, I'm afraid you don't have the minimum specs for the CPU and the CPU is considered the most important for MMOs. Not even sure if your GPU is up to spec because I'm not so familiar with notebook graphics.

On 10/27/2022 at 10:59 PM, Zephire.8049 said:

Something on the game's end is off because while my specs are certainly low these days, they still meet or exceed the minimum specs Anet lists for EoD—released less than a year ago where nothing new has been added so should still be relevant—and I would expect to at least be able to zone in to the New Kaineng chest without my computer screaming at me that it's out of RAM and the CPU hitting max usage even if I couldn't do the EoD metas due to the sheer number of people there.

So yeah, this is certainly CPU related and it's not really acceptable that Anet forgot to update their help database.

And as mentioned before, when it comes to MMOs you shouldn't really play them with minimum requirements because optimization issues exist in most, if not all, MMOs. Normally a game also has recommended settings but for some odd reasons GW2 doesn't have them.

But, bottom line, your laptop doesn't meet the actual minimum requirements for EoD. Blame Anet for making you think otherwise.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

This is from the shop page under EoD. So no, I'm afraid you don't have the minimum specs for the CPU and the CPU is considered the most important for MMOs. Not even sure if your GPU is up to spec because I'm not so familiar with notebook graphics.

So yeah, this is certainly CPU related and it's not really acceptable that Anet forgot to update their help database.

And as mentioned before, when it comes to MMOs you shouldn't really play them with minimum requirements because optimization issues exist in most, if not all, MMOs. Normally a game also has recommended settings but for some odd reasons GW2 doesn't have them.

But, bottom line, your laptop doesn't meet the actual minimum requirements for EoD. Blame Anet for making you think otherwise.

Since the person you responded to mentioned it's a 2.9Ghz i5 in an 1200 socket then it's a 10th gen i5, it's not locked at 2.9Ghz. 
The minimum requirements on the CPU isn't much, 4-5th gen i5 could meet it and their minimum AMD CPU is from like 2012/13.

The only difference is the iGPU they have, which is notably weaker than the minimum one.

[Gehenna.3625]

58 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Since the person you responded to mentioned it's a 2.9Ghz i5 in an 1200 socket then it's a 10th gen i5, it's not locked at 2.9Ghz. 
The minimum requirements on the CPU isn't much, 4-5th gen i5 could meet it and their minimum AMD CPU is from like 2012/13.

The only difference is the iGPU they have, which is notably weaker than the minimum one.

Ah thx for clearing that up. I'm not that familiar with laptops, but yeah a socket 1200 doesn't fit older CPUs. So it's the GPU that's bottlenecking it.

[mikansei.5742]

On 10/27/2022 at 7:51 AM, Giovanelli.6071 said:

Aye, I'm definitely going to be getting myself a proper desktop, once I have the money to do so. I'm so tired of laptops, especially since they just don't have the same feel to me as a desktop does.

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8300H CPU @ 2.30GHz   2.30 GHz

8.00 GB (7.85 GB usable)

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti

 

Windows 10. The most I'm running in the background is Firefox and Discord, I usually never have anything else open at any given time when playing GW2. And other than high animations, textures, and character model limit/quality (which I don't have issues with usually in low pop areas of EoD), everything else in my in-game graphics is set to either medium or as low as possible

I know this post is a little old, but I would DEFINITELY close Firefox while you're actively playing the game, especially if you only have 8gb of ram. Firefox is a notorious memory hog that only gets worse the longer you leave it open. I wouldn't leave it open on my machine while I play, and I have a desktop with pretty nice specs that has no trouble running the game.

I'd also recommend setting character model limit and quality to around medium outside of idling in cities. Setting them on lowest probably isn't necessary, but tweaking those two settings up and down as you move into and out of high pop metas will make a MASSIVE difference in performance.

Reflections and shadows are two more settings you want to keep as low as you can stand to look at, ideally with reflections turned completely off.

[Zephire.8049]

4 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

You may want to check the specs for EoD in Steam and in the shop. They haven't updated the ones in the help-area. It's really not a good thing that Anet forgot to update that page. So here's the actual minimum requirements:

MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

WINDOWS Minimum System Requirements

• Windows® 7 or better (64 bit only)
• Intel®i3 3.4 GHz / AMD Athlon x4 3.8 GHz or better
• 8 GB RAM
• NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 680 / AMD Radeon HD 7970 / Intel Iris 600 series
• 70GB available HDD space
• Broadband Internet connection
• Keyboard and mouse

*Note: Due to potential changes, system requirements may change over time and you may be required to upgrade your current system (or obtain a new system) to continue to play the game.

This is from the shop page under EoD. So no, I'm afraid you don't have the minimum specs for the CPU and the CPU is considered the most important for MMOs. Not even sure if your GPU is up to spec because I'm not so familiar with notebook graphics.

So yeah, this is certainly CPU related and it's not really acceptable that Anet forgot to update their help database.

And as mentioned before, when it comes to MMOs you shouldn't really play them with minimum requirements because optimization issues exist in most, if not all, MMOs. Normally a game also has recommended settings but for some odd reasons GW2 doesn't have them.

But, bottom line, your laptop doesn't meet the actual minimum requirements for EoD. Blame Anet for making you think otherwise.

Thanks for the reply. The "funny" thing is I actually play on desktop and the only reason I use integrated graphics is because my GPU died a bit over a month ago, which is why I know it's not just the CPU that's an issue. I was able to play EoD just fine up until my card died and only after did EoD start causing such issues (that I noticed anyway—I wasn't actively monitoring before it died) even though my integrated graphics actually have much more memory than my old GPU (2GB vs 8GB).

If it were purely CPU related—or any other component—I would have expected there to be issues from the start, but as they only happened when my GPU died, I can only conclude it's either a flaw with how the game pulls info from the GPU or a GPU-CPU hybrid issue as integrated graphics do put more load on the CPU.

It also means if I met the minimum specs before I should still meet them now, but I don't even though my integrated graphics are listed as the minimum requirement. If I didn't meet the base requirement I wouldn't complain, but I do. So either Anet lied about base requirements, "minimum specs" is being treated like a technicality in that technically the game will load even if you can't do much, or there's a serious issue (e.g. memory leak) that higher specs can compensate for but get the more obvious faster the fewer resources you have to spare.

[branwen.1049]

3 hours ago, mikansei.5742 said:

I know this post is a little old, but I would DEFINITELY close Firefox while you're actively playing the game, especially if you only have 8gb of ram. Firefox is a notorious memory hog that only gets worse the longer you leave it open. I wouldn't leave it open on my machine while I play, and I have a desktop with pretty nice specs that has no trouble running the game.

Oh, does Firefox also hog memory? That's a bit disappointing to hear, I thought that was only a Chrome issue. 😕