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epoc.7941

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I honestly hate to be the one to do this. But someone has to. 

 

lets have a look at the impossible win/loss ratios of the top 5 in pvp compares to literally everyone else in the top 50. (basically everyone in the legendary tier) 

resilencia: 108-9 [92% wr]

wolfspider:  139-19 [87% wr] 

Shorts: 111-28 [80% wr] 

Vaanss: 172-40 [81% wr] 

Phoenix: 299-62 [85% wr] 

 

 

all above 80% win rate. 

 

for reference professional  athletes with similar games play have no where near a win rate and they're making millions doing what they do (in terms of incentive)

the best teams of 2022 for example the dodgers in US baseball barely broke 600 [61%wr] and they were the best team..... with the same roster! (not rng from matchmaking) teams across all sports average in the high 60s to 70s at best. That is to say even the WR for NotoriousNaru and Sagat in 6th and 7th at 77% is like elite elite... (albeit more believable and consistent with the data of all the other top players)  These percentages do not change even in esports games (w/r amongst the best most legendary players ranging from the high 60's to 70's) 

 

that is to say anything above these numbers are extremely rare and special. its not impossible per say, teams like the all blacks in ruby have maintained a 90% w/r over the last 4 years but things like this are the exception not the rule. 

 

Top players in the game should look more like Sagat... than anything else. the top 50 players all fall within a 70-60% wr except for the top 5 and by quite a large margin. 

 

why is this an issue? well for starters we did have a controversy a while back where top players were banned bc they were caught cheating. So its not farfetched to suspect the same here. Shorts for example has been caught match trading before on stream. I doubt this was reported to Anet but he WAS caught on stream.... allow me to reiterate that. A known cheater has the lowest winrate of the top 5... 

 

how can anet screen for this? idk... idk how the others were caught in the past. But while most players wont make into the top five I'm not in support of foul play. numbers rarely lie. video evidence even less so. win-trading your way to the top is unfair to all those in the community legit trying to get there off merit. 

 

TLDR: I am not at all saying these players are bad. however I am saying I suspect them of win-trading to inflate their numbers. perhaps to elevate themselves as streaming players or such.

 

idk what are your thoughts? I've seen a lot of commentary on win trading on forums so I'm curious to see if people agree or disagree. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, epoc.7941 said:

I honestly hate to be the one to do this. But someone has to. 

 

lets have a look at the impossible win/loss ratios of the top 5 in pvp compares to literally everyone else in the top 50. (basically everyone in the legendary tier) 

resilencia: 108-9 [92% wr]

wolfspider:  139-19 [87% wr] 

Shorts: 111-28 [80% wr] 

Vaanss: 172-40 [81% wr] 

Phoenix: 299-62 [85% wr] 

 

 

all above 80% win rate. 

 

for reference professional  athletes with similar games play have no where near a win rate and they're making millions doing what they do (in terms of incentive)

the best teams of 2022 for example the dodgers in US baseball barely broke 600 [61%wr] and they were the best team..... with the same roster! (not rng from matchmaking) teams across all sports average in the high 60s to 70s at best. That is to say even the WR for NotoriousNaru and Sagat in 6th and 7th at 77% is like elite elite... (albeit more believable and consistent with the data of all the other top players)  These percentages do not change even in esports games (w/r amongst the best most legendary players ranging from the high 60's to 70's) 

 

that is to say anything above these numbers are extremely rare and special. its not impossible per say, teams like the all blacks in ruby have maintained a 90% w/r over the last 4 years but things like this are the exception not the rule. 

 

Top players in the game should look more like Sagat... than anything else. the top 50 players all fall within a 70-60% wr except for the top 5 and by quite a large margin. 

 

why is this an issue? well for starters we did have a controversy a while back where top players were banned bc they were caught cheating. So its not farfetched to suspect the same here. Shorts for example has been caught match trading before on stream. I doubt this was reported to Anet but he WAS caught on stream.... allow me to reiterate that. A known cheater has the lowest winrate of the top 5... 

 

how can anet screen for this? idk... idk how the others were caught in the past. But while most players wont make into the top five I'm not in support of foul play. numbers rarely lie. video evidence even less so. win-trading your way to the top is unfair to all those in the community legit trying to get there off merit. 

 

TLDR: I am not at all saying these players are bad. however I am saying I suspect them of win-trading to inflate their numbers. perhaps to elevate themselves as streaming players or such.

 

idk what are your thoughts? I've seen a lot of commentary on win trading on forums so I'm curious to see if people agree or disagree. 

 

 

All of this is well known kind of....  But for some reason Anet does nothing about this. A few of the "top-players" have been banned on their accounts a few years ago... but those same people are back simply on another account. They are doing the same thing again, and they are well known names in the scene. Their current accounts almost have the same name as the accounts that were banned a few years ago. They are participating in tournaments and/or are selling titles and gizmos.... anet is aware of this, yet nothing changes.

 

What makes matters worse is, that it kind of feels like that anyone that is trying to bring attention to this will receive punishment.

You will probably get a 24 hour ban for this thread, because of "nameshaming".

See you in 24 hours. ❤️

Edited by Sahne.6950
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its wild how people think people are wintrading when pheonix and znys have streamed 99% if not 100% of their games theyve played this season, no chat cover on mr pheonixs streams most of the time too! but must be wintrading!

yeah you win *alot* when you're the best duo qing, it encourages other players who want to win, even players who aren't pushing for a title or are already not higher rated to intentionally avoid and dodge duos like this. ive had sub plat players tell me they dodge me when im solo q, it makes no sense, but when 100% the players who could beat a duo like this refuse to queue into a duo like this, they win even more, and how could they not, they are qing into 1 plat player a game 99% of the time

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it's not wintrade, it's just duo queuing off hour as 2 good players and deleting gold1 gold2 gol3

 

i was able to manage 20 kills with 0 death in an offhour match, and still lost 350-500, with my teammates unable to win a single  team fight or 1v1 without me the entire game. since theres 3 point, every single point i get, the other 2 is immediately lost

but if it's duoq, it's another story, you now guarantee 2 points with how easy the fights are.

as personal experience, i'm unable to see me losing any match during offhour if there's a second me, not to mention the mentioned duoq is better then me.

but yea, since i don't duoq so now i just avoid offhour.

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2 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

its wild how people think people are wintrading when pheonix and znys have streamed 99% if not 100% of their games theyve played this season, no chat cover on mr pheonixs streams most of the time too! but must be wintrading!

Because in 2022 no one has a double or triple screen monitor setup where they run Discord for side communication.

Edited by Trevor Boyer.6524
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It's not so much Wintrading as it is a problem with how matchmaking privileges Duo Q.

There is no difference in calculation between Solo and Duo Q matchmaking algorithm. This means you can Duo with a 1300 ranked alt of a player who is actually 1700, and you now have -400 rating to deal with against the enemy team. This is so blatantly exploitable, you don't even have to try to exploit it. Just Duo Q naturally and unless you are Duo-ing with a total random you are probably getting a leg up from matchmaking.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

It's not so much Wintrading as it is a problem with how matchmaking privileges Duo Q.

There is no difference in calculation between Solo and Duo Q matchmaking algorithm. This means you can Duo with a 1300 ranked alt of a player who is actually 1700, and you now have -400 rating to deal with against the enemy team. This is so blatantly exploitable, you don't even have to try to exploit it. Just Duo Q naturally and unless you are Duo-ing with a total random you are probably getting a leg up from matchmaking.

 

 

Simple: Tie the rating to the IP address not the actual account. Because let's be honest, how many players share the computer with other members of their family to play the same game? They might be some people here and there but I am pretty sure they are a very small tiny minority and the rules should be made to fit the majorty not the minority.

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9 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

its wild how people think people are wintrading when pheonix and znys have streamed 99% if not 100% of their games theyve played this season, no chat cover on mr pheonixs streams most of the time too! but must be wintrading!

yeah you win *alot* when you're the best duo qing, it encourages other players who want to win, even players who aren't pushing for a title or are already not higher rated to intentionally avoid and dodge duos like this. ive had sub plat players tell me they dodge me when im solo q, it makes no sense, but when 100% the players who could beat a duo like this refuse to queue into a duo like this, they win even more, and how could they not, they are qing into 1 plat player a game 99% of the time

Didn't Phoenix stream while playing with Wolfspider, who wintraded, therefore proving that Phoenix benefits from wintrading?

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5 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Didn't Phoenix stream while playing with Wolfspider, who wintraded, therefore proving that Phoenix benefits from wintrading?

I don't really understand the logic there not gonna lie. Wintrading doesnt give a permanent advantage, it gives an advantage on a per wintraded game basis. If Phoenix didnt queue with Wolfspider while he was wintrading, no benefit.

Pretty sure you're referring to last season which I know for sure Phoenix wasnt involved in, infact he was the person who streamed said wintrading taking place against him(queue conspiracy theories that HE was the one intentionally throwing infront of 50 people and multiple other ranked tryhards who were also victims of the same wintrading who wouldve caught it).

It also, while still wrong to do regardless, doesnt benefit a player outside of social status(which a player like Phoenix doesnt need more of) until they actually get a reward off of it at the end of the season; a title. 

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The ratings should be seperated from each other.

after one season the best 3 players of each tier go up one league and the worst 3 players go one league down for the next season.

The seasons could be 4 weeks each.

so plats cant use bronze duo accounts to win cause the tiers are seperated from each others.

Edited by roederich.2716
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1 hour ago, roederich.2716 said:

The ratings should be seperated from each other.

after one season the best 3 players of each tier go up one league and the worst 3 players go one league down for the next season.

The seasons could be 4 weeks each.

so plats cant use bronze duo accounts to win cause the tiers are seperated from each others.

And then the queue times increase exponentially, because it can't find enough players in close enough rating?

This would cause even more players to leave sPvP behind, which in turn increases the queue times again.

Eventually, some people might never get a match again, because there simply would never be 10 players of close enough rating.

Putting in a hard cap on rating difference is only useful, if there are enough players to support that, which is not the case with GW2.

It'd be much better to prevent duo queue abuse by putting both into the queue at the higher rating, rather than their average. That way, one couldn't abuse bronze accounts, because both would queue as platinum.

Edited by Fueki.4753
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13 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

I don't really understand the logic there not gonna lie. Wintrading doesnt give a permanent advantage, it gives an advantage on a per wintraded game basis. If Phoenix didnt queue with Wolfspider while he was wintrading, no benefit.

I was under the impression he did. Either way, suspicious (even just choosing to play with someone who wintraded very recently). Note that I am not one to claim that everyone on the top list wintraded or anything, like some people are doing. What I think should happen is that duo Q should be removed, an 80% win ratio is not surprising in a game like this which has low population and allows duo Q.

13 hours ago, Grimjack.8130 said:

Pretty sure you're referring to last season which I know for sure Phoenix wasnt involved in, infact he was the person who streamed said wintrading taking place against him(queue conspiracy theories that HE was the one intentionally throwing infront of 50 people and multiple other ranked tryhards who were also victims of the same wintrading who wouldve caught it).

It also, while still wrong to do regardless, doesnt benefit a player outside of social status(which a player like Phoenix doesnt need more of) until they actually get a reward off of it at the end of the season; a title. 

 

Edited by agrippastrilemma.8741
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