What *theme* would you like to see Anet expand on for a future e-spec?

[draxynnic.3719]

On 11/16/2022 at 2:01 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

I guess at this point we have to agree to disagree about this.

You are right that I don't really want an electric themed engineer elite spec. Because the electric theme is the strongest component of the scrapper for me, so it would feel redundant. As a class fantasy, there is nothing it gives me, it would feel like scrapper 2.0.

I didn't try to gaslight you, it's more that we have very differing views on this particular elite spec as it seems. You experienced this thing as "me trying to tell you that it is electrical themed when it clearly isn't". Meanwhile I was seeing this conversation as you trying to talk away all the electrical themes I clearly see on this spec.

When I look at scrapper, what I see is that this whole thing is almost entirely about electricity. That's not how you experience it and that's fine. We interpret this spec differently and no one will convince the other that their vision on it is correct.

So basically, everyone just should keep expressing their opinion on this matter. If you want an electrical themed elite spec, advocate for it. I will advocate against it still. We don't have to agree on this matter.

I can respect that. I was actually thinking after posting that 'gaslighting' was probably a bit too strong, but it did feel a bit like I was explaining my position and you were just sticking to the same points and going "no, your interpretation is wrong!"

 

I can see where you're coming from, because there are a lot of sparks on the hammer, but I really do think that's simply because electricity is an underlying theme for all engineers rather than being something they were specifically going for with scrapper. I was thinking on what exactly scrapper brings to the table in that area since my previous post, and I've actually come to the conclusion that scrapper actually somewhat antisynergises with the electrical aspects in core engineer: function gyro takes space that could be occupied by Orbital Strike (the mortar kit toolbelt); gyro toolbelt skills (including the shredder gyro toolbelt) don't make good seed skills for Static Discharge, and using a melee weapon means you're giving up on more Orbital Strikes from Aim-Assisted Rocket. So while there's definitely electricity in the scrapper, I don't consider it electricity-themed because pretty much everything electrical you can get out of scrapper is coming at the expense of something that you could have got out of core. What hammer scrapper does do, however, is create a melee engineer, and if you go as far into electricity as scrapper will let you, you get to about the same amount of electricity as if you go all in on electricity as core engineer, except that it's oriented towards melee combat rather than ranged combat. On paper, scrapper introduces a lot of electricity... but what it introduces is just replacing core electricity stuff that you probably wouldn't want to use with scrapper, so you end up with about as much as you started with.

 

But it still means that it's not really any more focused towards electricity than either of the other elite specialisations (since holosmith does synergise well with Static Discharge and possibly Aim-Assist if you take Crystal Configuration:Storm, and for mechanist... well, basically everything mechanist does that inflicts confusion is green lightning) or even core if you build for it. I think it's reasonable to say that if all of the specs provide the potential to make a partially electricity-themed build, while none of them provide the potential to make an entirely electricity-themed build, then none of them are the electricity-themed spec.

 

Hopefully this expresses my objection a little bit better. I'm certainly open to arguments that it shouldn't be the next theme to be used (although engineer could do with finally getting another ranged weapon), but I don't think it's fair to take it off the board altogether just because scrapper has handful of electricity-themed skills.

[PzTnT.7198]

Id love to see some kind of super high tech energy weapon style like a megalaser staff.

[Kodama.6453]

25 minutes ago, PzTnT.7198 said:

Id love to see some kind of super high tech energy weapon style like a megalaser staff.

PLEASE don't give us a gigantic laser as an elite skill....

We already had this with holosmith (prime light beam) and mechanist (jade buster cannon from overclock signet active while mech is on the field). I am really done with "big phat lazor" elite skills....

Edited November 22, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[PzTnT.7198]

3 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

PLEASE don't give us a gigantic laser as an elite skill....

Indeed, something like a swarm of mini golems could be the theme for the utility/elite skills. 

[Dr Meta.3158]

I'd honestly like arenanet to flesh out/finish the themes that currently exist on classes. I really don't think we need any more new elite specs when there are so many issues even dating back to core classes that need to be addressed. Hell for one. Most necromancers don't even do necromancy unless they're completely new, can't be bothered with developing skill (especially when you're old and tired), or botting. Necromancers are just DnD warlocks in shroud and subpar voodoo shamans outside of it.

[ParadoX.3124]

No more especs, we have enough already

[Val.7826]

I'd like to see more asuran technology on Engineer, some magi-tech maybe, I dunno exactly what kind of utility it should have tho. Maybe some thematic inventions or gadgets, or even elixirs, many fit well. I hoped before EoD to see on engineer some minion golem summons, but with Mechanist mech happened it would be pointless by now.

 

Alternatively I'd like a Magnetist, with gadgets and electromagnetic themed perks and utilities, maybe with a dagger MH.

[Nero.7369]

On 11/16/2022 at 2:18 AM, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

I think a chemical theme would be redundant with the elixir gun, flamethrower and alchemy traitline + associated utilities already existing. I just hope next engineer spec will be ranged focused. 

Well a bit, but right now the focus is more on the combination of chemicals to create positive effects with elexiers. I'd like to see more on negative effects with venoms/acids.  We currently only have the acid bomb in that spectrum, well and maybe the flamethrower, I didn't consider it in that aspect before tho, but yea it's also kinda chemical based.

But yea it's not much special and bling bling about that idea. But would fit the theme of an engi+thief spec.

[Ashen.2907]

A spec centered around entering a piloted battlesuit that, upon taking too much damage, is destroyed requiring the pilot to exit until the suit's repair systems bring it back on line. Mechanically similar to something like necro shroud with tool belt skills that repair the battlesuit when it is offline and augment it when online.

[Nero.7369]

12 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

A spec centered around entering a piloted battlesuit that, upon taking too much damage, is destroyed requiring the pilot to exit until the suit's repair systems bring it back on line. Mechanically similar to something like necro shroud with tool belt skills that repair the battlesuit when it is offline and augment it when online.

I'd have loved that for the mechanist 😅

[Eekasqueak.7850]

17 minutes ago, Nero.7369 said:

Well a bit, but right now the focus is more on the combination of chemicals to create positive effects with elexiers. I'd like to see more on negative effects with venoms/acids.  We currently only have the acid bomb in that spectrum, well and maybe the flamethrower, I didn't consider it in that aspect before tho, but yea it's also kinda chemical based.

But yea it's not much special and bling bling about that idea. But would fit the theme of an engi+thief spec.

Engi + thief to me would be a spec that uses booby traps and ambushes with an engineer flair to it. Engi has mines but more elaborate traps and maybe an "improvise" skill replacing part of their toolbelt working kinda like a pseudo steal would be more in line with it. 

[Kodama.6453]

Just now, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

Engi + thief to me would be a spec that uses booby traps and ambushes with an engineer flair to it. Engi has mines but more elaborate traps and maybe an "improvise" skill replacing part of their toolbelt working kinda like a pseudo steal would be more in line with it. 

There are many ways for an engineer/thief hybrid to work. I agree with Nero that chemicals would be a great thematic for such an elite spec.

Are you familiar with the game Valorant? I imagine something similar to one of the agents of this game, called Viper. She is using green gas clouds to hide herself in while she is sniping enemies daring to enter and the chemicals are damaging and breaking their armor away.

An engineer elite spec based on chemicals could have something like this. Let's say they can create gas clouds in areas (maybe with traps or preparations, even) and these clouds can give the engineer stealth. Maybe entering such a chem-fog could also give the engineer an ambush skill, like how thieves have their stealth attack or untamed got ambushes with their unleashed mechanic.

Ambush skills for every engineer mainhand weapon + all our kits! Imagine how cool that could be!

[Nero.7369]

On 11/14/2022 at 12:56 AM, Nero.7369 said:

Since I realistically don't expect dual daggers as power weapons for core engi one day... I'd love to see a EngiXThief spec:

A mobile and stealthy brew master of boon corrupting toxic acids (preparations), who throws around daggers which they dualwield 🙂

Another alternative EngiXThief theme I could imagine would be the Trickshooter theme with tricks as new utilities and a shortbow. Thematically maybe traits around weapon modding could also fit into this spec, which could alter our small weapon skillset if Pistols and Rifle, too. So we get some fresh breeze there to our really small weapon arsenal.

Core Engi really needs a power mainhand and a power offhand weapon.  To give more options. Imagine holo could could use a sword with a power offhand or mech a mace with a power offhand .. or scrapper a shield with a power main hand.... It would bring so much more diversity to everything

 

[Ashen.2907]

A Turreteer spec where active weapon, utility, and tool belt skill use augment the performance of your turrets. Your weapon skills are replaced with turret command skills when turrets are active or perhaps only when a turret's override skill is triggered.

 

Edit: to be clear, this would need to be designed to require active player engagement to perform in order to avoid more afk turret farming.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Nero.7369]

No more ai stuff ever please. Stil have an old gyro traumata. The mechanist is at least a bit better then that. The current turrets need a rework to be used. Just make them like phantasms.. place them... let them do their action... Self destruct. But I just can't bare more clunky ai stuff 😅

Edited November 23, 2022 by Nero.7369

[Nero.7369]

16 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

There are many ways for an engineer/thief hybrid to work. I agree with Nero that chemicals would be a great thematic for such an elite spec.

Are you familiar with the game Valorant? I imagine something similar to one of the agents of this game, called Viper. She is using green gas clouds to hide herself in while she is sniping enemies daring to enter and the chemicals are damaging and breaking their armor away.

An engineer elite spec based on chemicals could have something like this. Let's say they can create gas clouds in areas (maybe with traps or preparations, even) and these clouds can give the engineer stealth. Maybe entering such a chem-fog could also give the engineer an ambush skill, like how thieves have their stealth attack or untamed got ambushes with their unleashed mechanic.

Ambush skills for every engineer mainhand weapon + all our kits! Imagine how cool that could be!

Sure Traps would work fine too, those also fit the preparation skill theme. Doesn't have to be all like thiefs venoms. I could imagine many different stuff like a classic venom you apply to your weapon. A trap triggered by enemies. Or just a throwable acid flask.

Engineer tools are diverse, so why it has to be all the same 😛 Preparation can come in many different forms 😄

Ambush would be kinda fitting too.

And nope I don't know the game 😅

Edited November 23, 2022 by Nero.7369

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I was thinking more improvised explosives and clockwork style traps than chemicals. We've already got harbinger and plenty of chem based weapons already in engi's kit. Could also expand on how toolbelt works and bake the ambushes into there where a modal shift gives alternate toolbelt skills but that would be a lot of work. 

[Nero.7369]

Yea different style, explosives blowing up isn't that sneaky that's why I thought more about acids.

But sure explosive traps would really fit the engi style, too 🙂

Btw did any1 else of you ever wished to have some mesmer like portal but technology based?

[Kodama.6453]

2 minutes ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

I was thinking more improvised explosives and clockwork style traps than chemicals. We've already got harbinger and plenty of chem based weapons already in engi's kit. Could also expand on how toolbelt works and bake the ambushes into there where a modal shift gives alternate toolbelt skills but that would be a lot of work. 

Fair enough, I think the offensive uses of chemicals are still a bit underrepresented in the engineer, tho.

Chemicals also go really well with a gameplay mechanic we are missing: boon removal... Especially after they removed the boon rip from minefield, I think we are in need of an elite spec which covers that for us, like untamed and spellbreaker have been for their classes respectively.

And chemicals used to be related to boon removal for us. Alchemy had a trait called "acidic elixirs" in the past, which made all our thrown elixirs remove boons from enemies and deal some damage. Acid is generally a cool thing to have more of and spilling acid to remove the boons from enemies just seems really fitting for me.

[Kodama.6453]

1 minute ago, Nero.7369 said:

Yea different style, explosives blowing up isn't that sneaky that's why I thought more about acids.

But sure explosive traps would really fit the engi style, too 🙂

Btw did any1 else of you ever wished to have some mesmer like portal but technology based?

Eh.... mesmer portal is way too situational for my taste.

Thief got the portal mechanic with their preparations rework, having shadow portal now. Scourge also got a portal with sand swell. I see neither of them used, ever. Because this mechanic is very VERY situational (just used at very specific content), and usually it's still just the mesmer portal being taken since it is the best one so far (since it is bidrectional).

Idk, I feel like if we get a portal skill like mesmer, then we will just get to take that skill 1% of the playtime and everywhere else we never use it....

The fantasy is appealing, ngl. But from a gameplay point of view, I don't really want a portal. I want something I would actually use regularly....

[Nero.7369]

Yea I just remembered that was a wish of mine for engi for a long time before scourge and thief got portals. And with asura portals this would have been really fitting for some gadget stuff on the engineer themewise. But indeed the gameplay impact is kinda limited and situational. I love the scourge portal ... The range could be slightly higher imo

Edited November 23, 2022 by Nero.7369

[Eekasqueak.7850]

offensive trap portal that can be used like a portal normally by allies but enemies get launched out the other end unless they have stability 

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Nero.7369 said:

No more ai stuff ever please. Stil have an old gyro traumata. The mechanist is at least a bit better then that. The current turrets need a rework to be used. Just make them like phantasms.. place them... let them do their action... Self destruct. But I just can't bare more clunky ai stuff 😅

It wouldnt need to be any more AI than turrets currently use, perhaps even less. Imagine that you are using your 1-5 keys plus utilities and tool belt skills targeted at foes, or ground targeted AoEs, but the effects come from the turret locations rather than your hands. 

[Nero.7369]

Well maybe I expressed myself unfortunately. I don't want another elite spec to rely on AI at all.

Well if they change it so you build turrets and just skills we use fire from their position, like you suggested It would not require AI. But probably pretty clunky to use. Either turrets are stationary then, which is bad for lot of content, they move by some ai, or they move/fly in a position related to you. And checking line of side from their position in competitive would be pain.

I'd really like turrets in core to be good. And even there I can only imagine that turrets should work like mesmers phantasms or guardians spirit weapons so they might become more usable. But I can't imagine some full espec around it right now.

[Kuma.1503]

Hear me out... what if we could dual wield shields and clap them together like a air of cymbals. 

Like the dredge. 

But you get to dual wield shields.