Warrior NEEDS stability (pvp)

[Yerlock.4678]

The only exception here is the shout heal spam metas we've gotten in the past, but for the most part every super strong warrior build had a reliable source of stab.

 

Warrior is a frontline usually melee orientated fighter. Ideally he/she would be next to a guardian or rev. They need a good stability source without the cd being so bad that we have to a wait a literal minute after using it once for 4 seconds (balanced stance).

[eXruina.4956]

we did have good stability, they nerfed the durations to the ground but left them on absurdly long cooldowns.

[eXruina.4956]

i agree, stability, also protection and resolution in abundance.

[Tipsy.5802]

Haven't played pvp yet ,but from my experience with the Hollowed Gourdbinder boss in the mad king's labyrinth I notice my warrior flying around as much as the pumpkins in that fight trying to go constant frontline fighter style there & you are kinda forced to go ranged in that fight until the defiance bar depletes & that bos gets stunned,to then jump in & unleash some of yout melee powers.
 

But comparing it to pure range classes ,I wonder if the melee fighters are at disadvantage in such situations. I'm still core warrior though & not sure it would improve if i go spellbreaker with balanced stance & more stability or so. 

Same with the giant candy corn boss by the way;when that boss starts tossing you back it's difficult to role out

Also, I feel like the warrior needs more gap closing. or maybe even the "in combat" speed reduction shouldn't affect them so much (the issue of often having to mount up to catch up with others in squad in mad king's Labyrinth) If warrior can't keep up he'll otherwise never catch on to enemy players .Is that an issue in pvp?

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Tipsy.5802

[Mikali.9651]

I want Warrior to gain access to short and spammable Superspeed - I think it could work really well with Warrior

[prototypedragon.1406]

It would be interesting if all warrior shouts also did daze or interrupts on enemies 🤔

[Potato Slayer.3107]

Warrior should have a short defiance bar (2-3 cces) in core to shore up the lack of stab. CCs work as normal when defiance bar is broken and is recharging.

I was hoping they would change eternal champion in berserker to be stab boon share (on burst or activating berserker stance) but neigh its still its bad choice of grandmaster.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Potato Slayer.3107

[draxynnic.3719]

I think the big distinction is that a lot of other professions have stunbreaks that protect against immediate restunning. This could be stability, some form of block, or moving out of the area so the followup doesn't land. Warrior technically has Balanced Stance, but it was, well, balanced in a time when it was backed up by passive procs. Nowadays it's worse than SYG on a longer cooldown.

This is becoming increasingly critical with the introduction of more skills that will just keep restunning in an area. Used to be just Gravity Well that would do that to you - EoD added Shadowfall and Vital Draw on top. Get caught in any of those and there's no point using SIO because the next pulse is just going to restun you.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

25 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think the big distinction is that a lot of other professions have stunbreaks that protect against immediate restunning. This could be stability, some form of block, or moving out of the area so the followup doesn't land. Warrior technically has Balanced Stance, but it was, well, balanced in a time when it was backed up by passive procs. Nowadays it's worse than SYG on a longer cooldown.

This is becoming increasingly critical with the introduction of more skills that will just keep restunning in an area. Used to be just Gravity Well that would do that to you - EoD added Shadowfall and Vital Draw on top. Get caught in any of those and there's no point using SIO because the next pulse is just going to restun you.

Yeah, just going to throw this out there: pulsing CC might not be the best thing for the game, regardless of who has it. 

 

And you're right; our stab sources have been sadly over-nerfed: everything from brave stride to Dolyak signet to balanced stance.

 

Stomp has a good CD but you get animation locked, making you eat damage you might have otherwise avoided, and you only get meaningful stab (which lasts more than 1s) if you actually hit anything-- which isn't always easy given how telegraphed the attack is. 

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 10/29/2022 at 5:22 PM, Mikali.9651 said:

I want Warrior to gain access to short and spammable Superspeed - I think it could work really well with Warrior

I'd be down for a some Superspeed but not sure about spammable.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Maybe combine the ideas from this and Brave Stride into:

• Brave Stride grants swiftness on movement skills (5 sec, 4 sec ICD) and stability (1 sec, 1 sec ICD). <- Alternative swiftness source to Discipline ✔️, alternative active stability source to Stalwart Strength that allows movement skills to land ✔️
• Heightened Focus grants improved swiftness (66%) and removes debilitating conditions per unique swiftness application. <- Alternative to Burst MAstery in the same line, improves other traits and has a defensive nature ✔️
• Burst Mastery grants Superspeed on adrenaline consumption (1 1/4 sec per 10 adrenaline stacks spent) on top of it's previous effects (no swiftness). <- Superspeed stacks on adrenaline for a decent amount and cannot be spammed indefinetely, but can be used proactively, while also not taking away from Heightened Focus' cleansing ability ✔️

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

13 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Maybe combine the ideas from this and Brave Stride into:

• Brave Stride grants swiftness on movement skills (5 sec, 4 sec ICD) and stability (1 sec, 1 sec ICD). <- Alternative swiftness source to Discipline ✔️, alternative active stability source to Stalwart Strength that allows movement skills to land ✔️
• Heightened Focus grants improved swiftness (66%) and removes debilitating conditions per unique swiftness application. <- Alternative to Burst MAstery in the same line, improves other traits and has a defensive nature ✔️
• Burst Mastery grants Superspeed on adrenaline consumption (1 1/4 sec per 10 adrenaline stacks spent) on top of it's previous effects (no swiftness). <- Superspeed stacks on adrenaline for a decent amount and cannot be spammed indefinetely, but can be used proactively, while also not taking away from Heightened Focus' cleansing ability ✔️

These are outstanding ideas, GM! 

 

I especially like the Brave Stride idea.  It would make the stability reliable and would allow the movement skills to execute without interruption, even if there wouldn't be stability left over.  That's an excellent upgrade to its current form and is still balanced.

 

I also like the emphasis on speed within the Discipline traitline that this could offer.  Warrior sorely lacks for mobility, and this could help a lot.

 

@Cal Cohen.2358 these ideas are worth a look.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

These are outstanding ideas, GM! 

 

I especially like the Brave Stride idea.  It would make the stability reliable and would allow the movement skills to execute without interruption, even if there wouldn't be stability left over.  That's an excellent upgrade to its current form and is still balanced.

 

I also like the emphasis on speed within the Discipline traitline that this could offer.  Warrior sorely lacks for mobility, and this could help a lot.

 

@Cal Cohen.2358 these ideas are worth a look.

Just need an idea on how to allow Heightened Focus to also grant some swiftness, not only improving it.

Ideally not burst-related. Maybe building adrenaline grants swiftness? A duration per Tier.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

41 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Just need an idea on how to allow Heightened Focus to also grant some swiftness, not only improving it.

Ideally not burst-related. Maybe building adrenaline grants swiftness? A duration per Tier.

Swiftness on weapon swap or swiftness on burst use (since, in your model, burst mastery would no longer do that) would both be good mechanics and fits with Discipline's theme. 

[Zekent.3652]

On 10/29/2022 at 5:22 PM, Mikali.9651 said:

I want Warrior to gain access to short and spammable Superspeed - I think it could work really well with Warrior

I mean, super speed is something that should be able only for bruiser specs/classes on melee builds, not a ranged guy that also spams stealth.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

27 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Swiftness on weapon swap or swiftness on burst use (since, in your model, burst mastery would no longer do that) would both be good mechanics and fits with Discipline's theme. 

Yes weaponswap. Totally forgot that one!

[Aeolus.3615]

On 10/30/2022 at 6:26 PM, Potato Slayer.3107 said:

Warrior should have a short defiance bar (2-3 cces) in core to shore up the lack of stab. CCs work as normal when defiance bar is broken and is recharging.

I was hoping they would change eternal champion in berserker to be stab boon share (on burst or activating berserker stance) but neigh its still its bad choice of grandmaster.

Wait for a spear shield .... ur neighbors will get mad at u for screaming this is sparta every 30 seconds

Edited November 3, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Wait for a spear shield .... ur neighbors will get mad at u for screaming this is sparta every 30 seconds

If we get land spear one handed then kick is staying on my utility bar.

[TugboatSteve.3607]

Wow.

Did you guys miss this? I know you didn't, since I see it in arenas all the time.

Where's muh stability

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAIOiP8A

• Stalwart Strength: Disabling an enemy grants stability. While you have stability, your strike damage is increased.

• Aggressive Onslaught: This trait has been moved to the Grandmaster tier slot formerly filled by Merciless Hammer. Gain quickness when you disable a foe. While you have quickness, your movement speed is increased.
• Thick Skin: This trait has been reworked. It now grants protection to the warrior when using a healing skill.

Fighting against this in arena in melee is already pretty noxious TBH.

Edited November 3, 2022 by TugboatSteve.3607

[draxynnic.3719]

50 minutes ago, TugboatSteve.3607 said:

Wow.

Did you guys miss this? I know you didn't, since I see it in arenas all the time.

Where's muh stability

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAIOiP8A

• Stalwart Strength: Disabling an enemy grants stability. While you have stability, your strike damage is increased.

• Aggressive Onslaught: This trait has been moved to the Grandmaster tier slot formerly filled by Merciless Hammer. Gain quickness when you disable a foe. While you have quickness, your movement speed is increased.
• Thick Skin: This trait has been reworked. It now grants protection to the warrior when using a healing skill.

Fighting against this in arena in melee is already pretty noxious TBH.

I see that you appear to be posting in response to facing it rather than playing it yourself.

It's essentially the same issue that was facing flamethrower scrapper back in the day. Very difficult to CC one-on-one, but goes into a death spiral if you hit it with enough CC to overwhelm Juggernaut.

Stalwart Strength has a similar issue, except worse. Having 3s of 1 stack of stability after a successful CC is useful in making your followup harder to CC, but the problem is 1) the moment after you've successfully CC'd an enemy is generally when you're least likely to be CC'd back anyway and 2) It's really not something you can use reactively when you need it. It's a bit of a 'win more when you're already doing well' trait rather than something that will get you out of a CC train.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, TugboatSteve.3607 said:

Wow.

Did you guys miss this? I know you didn't, since I see it in arenas all the time.

Where's muh stability

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKQAIOiP8A

• Stalwart Strength: Disabling an enemy grants stability. While you have stability, your strike damage is increased.

• Aggressive Onslaught: This trait has been moved to the Grandmaster tier slot formerly filled by Merciless Hammer. Gain quickness when you disable a foe. While you have quickness, your movement speed is increased.
• Thick Skin: This trait has been reworked. It now grants protection to the warrior when using a healing skill.

Fighting against this in arena in melee is already pretty noxious TBH.

Requires actively hitting the target with a CC to get the high stab and quickness uptime, which is not easy versus equally skilled foes with hammer only.

[TugboatSteve.3607]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Very difficult to CC one-on-one, but goes into a death spiral if you hit it with enough CC to overwhelm Juggernaut.

[...] Having 3s of 1 stack of stability after a successful CC is useful in making your followup harder to CC, but the problem is 1) the moment after you've successfully CC'd an enemy is generally when you're least likely to be CC'd back anyway

Hilarious quote selection

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Requires actively hitting the target with a CC to get the high stab and quickness uptime, which is not easy versus equally skilled foes with hammer only.

I really don't think that kiting (easy for many classes to do) or spamming stab counts as skill.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

32 minutes ago, TugboatSteve.3607 said:

Hilarious quote selection

I really don't think that kiting (easy for many classes to do) or spamming stab counts as skill.

That's just it, tho.. warrior can't spam stab. It's able to generate lots of stab on certain builds (notably Spellbreaker) in large teamfights where your AoE CCs are more likely to hit at least something to proc the trait. In any smaller scale engagement, the value of the trait greatly diminishes. And in all instances, it depends on your enemies allowing themselves to be hit by your CC; that is, gaining stability isn't something you have full control over. 

[TugboatSteve.3607]

7 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

It's able to generate lots of stab on certain builds (notably Spellbreaker) in large teamfights where your AoE CCs are more likely to hit at least something to proc the trait. In any smaller scale engagement, the value of the trait greatly diminishes.

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Very difficult to CC one-on-one, but goes into a death spiral if you hit it with enough CC to overwhelm Juggernaut.

I'm dead and I give up bro

Edited November 3, 2022 by TugboatSteve.3607

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

3 hours ago, TugboatSteve.3607 said:

I'm dead and I give up bro

It's a duelist build. It loses power the moment it needs to go to teamfights because you don't output enough stab to counter CC when other classes are stabing on a faster pace than you. It's the main reason why the Spellbreaker version is using Dagger/Shield instead of Mace mainhand for the quickness uptime and damage: Because you need the Dagger burst to cleanse Stability before you open on the enemy. It's also prone to get it's stability eaten in teamfights. Doesn't do well against focus fire.

It's not a bad build at all, but it has well defined counters, and they're not hard to find. I'm highly sure that the golden goose of Teapot's AT's stream was bunker chrono, not defense spellbreaker. The Spbs actually didn't do much. Vallum plays the build, he has a video on it. Again, not a bad build at all.

It's just that everything that's meta in this game overperforms it because this game is absolute insanity at peak levels.