Why on earth is Brave Stride still a 10 sec CD trait?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

So we introduce Stalwart Strength in a patch with 1/4 sec stability intervals on CC (CC on warrior is as easy to find as movement, if not slightly easier) and despite that warrior still suffers from stability lack. 

So why not make Brave Stride, finally, a 1/4 sec interval Stability granting trait on movement skills, to compensate with stab in another line and increase warrior weapon viability. 

 

Do keep in mind one would have to forego PEAK PERFORMANCE for brave stride. That's no easy task. Make it a worthwhile trait. And even then, stab on moevement is just not enough to justify it over physicals/peak performance combo. 

[voltaicbore.8012]

5 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Do keep in mind one would have to forego PEAK PERFORMANCE for brave stride. That's no easy task. Make it a worthwhile trait. And even then, stab on moevement is just not enough to justify it over physicals/peak performance combo. 

I wholeheartedly agree. As a very sub-par and only part-time warrior, I had this exact thought: there is just no reason not to take peak performance + any physical utility over brave stride. Even in pve, some of the EoD mobs that corrupt boons repeatedly could still overcome the reworked brave stride you suggest, so I don't think your suggestion would be overkill at all.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

5 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I wholeheartedly agree. As a very sub-par and only part-time warrior, I had this exact thought: there is just no reason not to take peak performance + any physical utility over brave stride. Even in pve, some of the EoD mobs that corrupt boons repeatedly could still overcome the reworked brave stride you suggest, so I don't think your suggestion would be overkill at all.

If we were to making it into a decent trait, it would be the aformention stab plus something else. Imo, it would be a reduced dmg mod under the effects of stab, like 10%.

This would give Stomp, Dolyak Signet, Balanced Stance and any source of stab combination a good buff. Also it's in stark contrast to Peak Performance being DPS and Might on Heal being about mightgen and self-heal. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

*AHEM*

As the guy that proposed that version of Brave Stride in the first place... My proposal was for it not to have any CD, as stability has a couple of distinct hard counters, and things like Juggernaut exists for other classes. That and the skills triggering the trait all have their own CDs.

Some other forum warriors heehawed over the no CD and said it should be 1 stack for 2s on a 10s CD. The devs lifted my proposed wording exactly for the patch notes, and the CD, stack, and duration that got suggested over mine.

Turns out I was right...

NO CD ON BRAVE STRIDE

[felix.2386]

most likely due to spellbreaker, really spellbreaker has been holding warrior back from buffs for so long.

if you look at the power spellbreaker build.

dagger has 2 leaps with 8 second CD,

you swap to dagger, double leap and full counter,

not counting greatsword. probably impossible to CC at this point.

majority of the time power spellbreaker attacks are movement skills, you are either casting movement skill or you are casting CC skills from dagger 3 and full counter, or you are blocking.

so year, if brave stride has no CD, power spellbreaker will be impossible to CC

Edited November 1, 2022 by felix.2386

[Lucentfir.7430]

With Stalwart Strength now in the picture, I think that might actually be too much stability if Brave Stride were to get no ICD possibly a unhealthy amount, . Brave Stride itself maybe is due for another rework. One thing Warriors still lack is swaths of swiftness access, You have Burst Mastery but that requires you to spend adrenaline, which is something you won't be able to consistently keep up if you're not hitting things enough.

 Brave Stride should maybe  be reworked to provide 5s of Swiftness and 2 seconds of protection when using a movement skill with no ICD since all the leaps and dashes already animation lock you to commit unless you force a weapon swap. It'll give a alternative to builds that don't want  to sport a warhorn, or disc for warrior sprint, a consistent source of swiftness that doesn't rely on using up important CDs or adrenaline. 

Restorative Strength - Should probably also give 3s of regen when you gain might on a 5s ICD, or make it like ranger's Rugged Growth(Regenerate health while you have protection) and have it regen 15 health per stack of might. because the current iteration of just 5 might on heal is just kinda straight up boring, pretty dated and pretty awful in use in comparison with the other 2 trait options. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Lucentfir.7430

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, felix.2386 said:

most likely due to spellbreaker, really spellbreaker has been holding warrior back from buffs for so long.

if you look at the power spellbreaker build.

dagger has 2 leaps with 8 second CD,

you swap to dagger, double leap and full counter,

not counting greatsword. probably impossible to CC at this point.

majority of the time power spellbreaker attacks are movement skills, you are either casting movement skill or you are casting CC skills from dagger 3 and full counter, or you are blocking.

so year, if brave stride has no CD, power spellbreaker will be impossible to CC

Even considering all that, shouldn't that be a part of warrior's niche? Being difficult if not impossible to CC?

[felix.2386]

18 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Even considering all that, shouldn't that be a part of warrior's niche? Being difficult if not impossible to CC?

that will kill literally every other warrior build more then other classes, since warrior depends on CC lol.

it's boon rip power spellbreaker or no warrior.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

that will kill literally every other warrior build more then other classes, since warrior depends on CC lol.

it's boon rip power spellbreaker or no warrior.

True, but then Dispelling Force could be changed to rip boons prior to the CC taking effect and changed to a priority list with Aegis and Stability at the top. 

[Potato Slayer.3107]

Same reason why eternal champion doesn't get changed to share boons or have more meaningful stability 

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

most likely due to spellbreaker, really spellbreaker has been holding warrior back from buffs for so long.

Given how brokenly overtuned other professions are, it's definitely not Spellbreaker holding Warrior back.

What's holding Warrior back is developers not wanting to make Warrior be on par with other professions.

2 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

if brave stride has no CD, power spellbreaker will be impossible to CC

There is so much CC being farted out in sPvP, it'd be easy to stun Warrior, even with no CD on Brave Stride.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 11/1/2022 at 5:44 AM, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

So we introduce Stalwart Strength in a patch with 1/4 sec stability intervals on CC (CC on warrior is as easy to find as movement, if not slightly easier) and despite that warrior still suffers from stability lack. 

So why not make Brave Stride, finally, a 1/4 sec interval Stability granting trait on movement skills, to compensate with stab in another line and increase warrior weapon viability. 

 

Do keep in mind one would have to forego PEAK PERFORMANCE for brave stride. That's no easy task. Make it a worthwhile trait. And even then, stab on moevement is just not enough to justify it over physicals/peak performance combo. 

Every trait like this has a 10 second icd, no reason warrior should be different. Personally I think it need to be 3 seconds of stability like every other trait instead of just 2.

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 11/1/2022 at 6:36 AM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

*AHEM*

As the guy that proposed that version of Brave Stride in the first place... My proposal was for it not to have any CD, as stability has a couple of distinct hard counters, and things like Juggernaut exists for other classes. That and the skills triggering the trait all have their own CDs.

Some other forum warriors heehawed over the no CD and said it should be 1 stack for 2s on a 10s CD. The devs lifted my proposed wording exactly for the patch notes, and the CD, stack, and duration that got suggested over mine.

Turns out I was right...

NO CD ON BRAVE STRIDE

Hold up, does this mean that you support the idea of removing the icd on every trait in the game that gives stability like this?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

23 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Hold up, does this mean that you support the idea of removing the icd on every trait in the game that gives stability like this?

That depends on what holes they want in the roles. As for warrior, which is forced de facto into a heavily melee playstyle, having heavy access to and spammable self stability makes sense. Such a thing does not make sense on classes like ranger, mesmer, or thief.

But things like Juggernaut exist, which is free stab forever if albeit on an interval.

Brave Stride not having a CD would still be limited to the CDs of the equipped skillset, which automatically makes it less powerful than Juggernaut.

Even then, several classes come with core boon rip, boon corruption, or boon stealing that will make that stability pointless, so counterplay to it still exists which is a very important thing to remember.

[oscuro.9720]

9 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

That depends on what holes they want in the roles. As for warrior, which is forced de facto into a heavily melee playstyle, having heavy access to and spammable self stability makes sense. Such a thing does not make sense on classes like ranger, mesmer, or thief.

But things like Juggernaut exist, which is free stab forever if albeit on an interval.

Brave Stride not having a CD would still be limited to the CDs of the equipped skillset, which automatically makes it less powerful than Juggernaut.

Even then, several classes come with core boon rip, boon corruption, or boon stealing that will make that stability pointless, so counterplay to it still exists which is a very important thing to remember.

I think you really have to ask what the purpose of the trait is. If it is to secure a period to damage the enemy after a leap, having an ICD and raising the duration to 3s makes a lot of sense. However, if the role of the trait is to secure the movement ability (which I think it is), dropping the ICD to, say, 1s, then granting 1s of stability to cover just the movement ability would make a lot of sense imo. 

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

They could attach brave stride to warrior sprint in discipline and create another trait. It doesn't fit anyways. Make something that involves strength like taking away1 second of the knockdown/disable time of CC used against you. Like if you get hit by a 3 second knockdown, it becomes 2 second instead.

Or maybe a 33% decrease on all CC used against you.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

4 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

I think you really have to ask what the purpose of the trait is. If it is to secure a period to damage the enemy after a leap, having an ICD and raising the duration to 3s makes a lot of sense. However, if the role of the trait is to secure the movement ability (which I think it is), dropping the ICD to, say, 1s, then granting 1s of stability to cover just the movement ability would make a lot of sense imo. 

Unironically just made the same suggestion rn in the other thread.

1 sec of stab with 1 sec Interval is the way to go. Would be nice if it also granted swiftness though, cause Peak Performance is just too good.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

6 minutes ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

They could attach brave stride to warrior sprint in discipline and create another trait. It doesn't fit anyways. Make something that involves strength like taking away1 second of the knockdown/disable time of CC used against you. Like if you get hit by a 3 second knockdown, it becomes 2 second instead.

Or maybe a 33% decrease on all CC used against you.

Very nice idea. Personally I'd like to see decreased CC duration on you baked into LAst Stand, as without Balanced Stance it lost a  lot of it's viability AND it is a nice contender with Stalwart (so you won't be able to play Stalwart and have a CC duration decrease at the same time).

[SleepyBat.9034]

12 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

But things like Juggernaut exist, which is free stab forever if albeit on an interval.

Anet has said that they are looking to change this trait because of how hard it is to play around, when it comes to traits that grant stability Juggernaut is an exception and I don't think it's a good model to follow.

 

17 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Brave Stride not having a CD would still be limited to the CDs of the equipped skillset, which automatically makes it less powerful than Juggernaut.

Fair enough, they should change Heavy Light on Dragon Hunter in that case.

[Arewn.2368]

Considering the huge prevelance of teleports, they absolutely should make this kind of cover for our movement skills more readily available.

 

Even if they have a cast, the teleportation itself is instant. And let's be real, they don't typically have a cast/aftercast. In fact they often have stun breaks.

Our running/dashing/leaping style mobility skills are inherently inferior. Not only taking longer to get to the end-location of the skill, but also often leaving us vulnerable for that period. 

And its not uncommon for the mobility they do offer to be effectively reduced because of  the cast/after cast. Just look at Sundering Leap. A measly 600 range, and has both a cast and after cast....

I think it's totally reasonable that we at least have a trait that reliably keeps us from getting floored mid-movement skill.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

53 minutes ago, Arewn.2368 said:

Considering the huge prevelance of teleports, they absolutely should make this kind of cover for our movement skills more readily available.

 

Even if they have a cast, the teleportation itself is instant. And let's be real, they don't typically have a cast/aftercast. In fact they often have stun breaks.

Our running/dashing/leaping style mobility skills are inherently inferior. Not only taking longer to get to the end-location of the skill, but also often leaving us vulnerable for that period. 

And its not uncommon for the mobility they do offer to be effectively reduced because of  the cast/after cast. Just look at Sundering Leap. A measly 600 range, and has both a cast and after cast....

I think it's totally reasonable that we at least have a trait that reliably keeps us from getting floored mid-movement skill.

And remember, our mobility skills can not be used in the Y axis! That in itself is a horrible downside!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Anet has said that they are looking to change this trait because of how hard it is to play around, when it comes to traits that grant stability Juggernaut is an exception and I don't think it's a good model to follow.

Juggernaut being hard to play around is people just refusing to bring none CC based boon rips/corrupts. Juggernaut itself is not that powerful. 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

I think you really have to ask what the purpose of the trait is. If it is to secure a period to damage the enemy after a leap, having an ICD and raising the duration to 3s makes a lot of sense. However, if the role of the trait is to secure the movement ability (which I think it is), dropping the ICD to, say, 1s, then granting 1s of stability to cover just the movement ability would make a lot of sense imo. 

An ICD of 1s is virtually no CD considering the cast times and aftercasts of our movement skills.

To me, it should be 1-2 stacks when activating a movement skill for 1s duration with no ICD. The purpose is to secure the movement to the target, with the counter play that some classes can rip/steal/corrupt that stability easily.

Aggressive Onslaught and Stalwart Strength have the purpose of securing a spike after a CD, but coupled with my original suggestion for Brave Stride would create a strong build and playstyle, that despite looking on it's face as OP has very distinct  counters to it keeping it healthy for the game. 

[Shinja.3451]

The trait itself is hard to balance, more so considering that there are weapons that don't even have jump or zoom attacks, plus the trait just confirms that the warrior really lacks a decent weapon skill kit altogether, because of the same reason, how is it possible that axe/axe has no way to catch a target by itself being a completely melee weapon, with no cc or any defense, when other professions practically have the complete kit or it is completed by easily accessible traits with even better results, having said that.

It's like this because it's when performing an ability of some kind, not when hitting or applying something, it's still not consistent in many aspects of the game, but the balance of anet was never consistent.

Also anet should remove some CC from mrds, especially from weapons that are not melee and that the stability stops being corrupted in a CC and lastly remove the persistent areas of effects such as blinding or more CC, what mrd were they thinking when they did such stuff.

[oscuro.9720]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

An ICD of 1s is virtually no CD considering the cast times and aftercasts of our movement skills.

To me, it should be 1-2 stacks when activating a movement skill for 1s duration with no ICD. The purpose is to secure the movement to the target, with the counter play that some classes can rip/steal/corrupt that stability easily.

Aggressive Onslaught and Stalwart Strength have the purpose of securing a spike after a CD, but coupled with my original suggestion for Brave Stride would create a strong build and playstyle, that despite looking on it's face as OP has very distinct  counters to it keeping it healthy for the game. 

I agree that the intention is to cover the movement skill. No ICD works as well, as you noted 1s means basically no ICD for the duration our movement skills take, which is why I put it at 1s. I don’t see it being 2 stacks though tbh, and I believe 1 would be sufficient. I wouldn’t complain with 2 though. I definitely think just a short stab to cover the movement skills would be a pretty impactful change.