POLL: The Quest for The Skyscale: The Long and Grindy Road

[Zok.4956]

19 minutes ago, baseendje.8452 said:

But I'll remember that I can play all content without mounts next time that I try to keep-up with a meta-event train while the rest of the players fly of and finish the next event before I can even get there.

First: I did not say "no mounts". Second: There will always be some players with Griffon or Beetle (or who know the map better than you), that are faster at the next event. But you are not talking about Griffon or Beetle but Skyscale, and Skyscale is slow in comparison.

I like the Skyscale, it is versatile and convenient. But it is not the fastest way for map travelling if you know the map and how to use your other mounts.

If you have maxed out Springer/Raptor/Jackal and you can not catch up on a map that you already know, maybe you are doing something wrong (or maybe that specific meta train group is not for you and has a skyscale-only requirement).

[Adonan.7985]

I actually don't mind the number of steps in each collection, but I do mind the timegate. It takes agency away from me; it prevents me from choosing how I want to spend my time. Well, that's not entirely true, as you can still choose to play something else. It's honestly not even necessary, as I'm fairly certain the average person (the casuals, like me) wouldn't just blitz through the whole thing in an afternoon.

[Silent.6137]

29 minutes ago, Adonan.7985 said:

I actually don't mind the number of steps in each collection, but I do mind the timegate. It takes agency away from me; it prevents me from choosing how I want to spend my time.

That applies to many things. Meta events are all time-gated. So's many lesser events. Vendors, farmings, etc. All time-gated.

They all prevent you from doing them at any time you wish. Knowing that, the best option is always to, as you said, choose to play something else and get back to them when available.

[RadiantWolf.2058]

I mostly just think it shouldn't have the time gates.

[Adonan.7985]

28 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

That applies to many things. Meta events are all time-gated. So's many lesser events. Vendors, farmings, etc. All time-gated.

They all prevent you from doing them at any time you wish. Knowing that, the best option is always to, as you said, choose to play something else and get back to them when available.

Meta events aren't a personal thing; meta events require a large group of people, so time gating them is almost a necessity. Time gated vendors and material farms are just the foundation of the problem with Skyscale. Also, most of the time, you don't want to push people to other games while they wait for that time gate to reset. Often times, they might just decide they'd prefer to play whatever else they're playing rather than your game.

[Silent.6137]

7 minutes ago, Adonan.7985 said:

Meta events aren't a personal thing; meta events require a large group of people, so time gating them is almost a necessity. Time gated vendors and material farms are just the foundation of the problem with Skyscale. Also, most of the time, you don't want to push people to other games while they wait for that time gate to reset. Often times, they might just decide they'd prefer to play whatever else they're playing rather than your game.

By Playing Something Else, I'm talking about ingame. Not another game. Gather map currencies while waiting. Do World Bosses, other meras, whatever. There is absolutely no good reason to camp the spot. If someone is not going after Skyscale, they would be moving from maps to maps doing various things. So, why would this prevent anyone from doing so?

[Freya.9075]

2 hours ago, baseendje.8452 said:

Precisely! Just to be clear, I am not trying to argue here to have collections removed from the game, it is pretty clear that there are plenty of people here enjoying them. I would however like it if Anet would consider alternative paths to completing some of the collection heavy unlocks for those who are not into them. I tryed to suggest something like that in the other thread, as I think this could be a way to make both sides happy, but from the reactions it seemed like a lot of people hate the idea of people getting an alternative path. (Even though I don't really see how that affects their own gameplay).

Well. Thing is if anet makes a different path to get skyscale because some players don’t want to do the collection, other players will start to complain about it and ask why they don’t add different path to “insert content here” since they don’t like this part of the game. The pressure to create new ways to get something and using resources for that would be insane. It’s not about adding more paths to skyscale itself. It’s more about the consequences of doing so. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Freya.9075

[Adonan.7985]

3 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

By Playing Something Else, I'm talking about ingame. Not another game. Gather map currencies while waiting. Do World Bosses, other meras, whatever. There is absolutely no good reason to camp the spot. If someone is not going after Skyscale, they would be moving from maps to maps doing various things. So, why would this prevent anyone from doing so?

I was talking about playing another game entirely, but setting that aside, I would argue the rewards are what would stop someone from doing other things. I've played enough meta events to know often times the rewards feel arbitrary (a lot of armor I don't need, and a lot of unidentified gear). Maybe it's just because of the way I play, as I have nine alts, but most of the time I feel paralyzed by the glut of options. There are so many legendaries and ascended gear, and so many different currencies, that I have no idea where to start. As such, for a while now my mats have just been piling up in storage and the bank. I'm no new player, but this is a problem a lot of new players will have when starting an MMO as old as this one.

 

At any rate, that has nothing to do with the Skyscale. Most people set one goal for themselves at a time, as setting multiple goals can be overwhelming and cause you to give up early, especially if they're long-term goals. If someone sets the Skyscale as a goal, why shouldn't they be allowed to focus on that goal? If I want to get swoll, I'm allowed to determine how often I go to the gym without much of a time-gate. I say much of one because gyms obviously have closing times, but they usually only occur while most people are getting ready for bed. Even so, you still have the option to make your own home gym and work out on your own time. Even full-time jobs don't hold you back this much, as you can still change your work schedule around or go part time if you want. The only real time gate for a workout is your own body, but that feels like sophistry.

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, Adonan.7985 said:

.....

You farm items in-between to sell for gold. Map currencies can be ignored if you have no idea what they're for. But you'll always need them and they go into your wallet.

If storage is full, and no idea what to  do with the mats, and don't want to Wiki them, then just sell for gold. Salvage or sell all gears. No reason to keep any except what you use. New players will not get many items that they'd want to store in their bank. Vets already know basically what they need to keep or know how to find out.

As for Skyscale, the time-gates are very short. You can either stop playing while waiting because you refuse to do other events or just farm items for gold, which you'll always need.

Most Legendary items are time-gated in one way or another. Would you stop playing any other game modes or do other events altogether while waiting to get that particular Legendary item?

To add, by the time anyone get to the Skyscale stage, they are no longer a newbie player. They would have gone through their Personal Story, probably done both HoT and PoF, or at least PoF. And will be at the very end of Living World S4. They should already be very familiar with most of the basics of the game. They should also be very familiar with the game's heavy reliance on Wiki and know how to search, or ask ingame.

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, baseendje.8452 said:

How about we flip that around, we get nice quests or quest chains to unlock the mount

That's essentially what it already is.

[DexterousGecko.6328]

What does "premium mount" even mean?

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

What does "premium mount" even mean?

You really don't need the dictionary definitions, do you?

In this case, premium is something hard to get and really in demand. In comparison, Raptors will not be a premium mount because it is extremely easy to get. If it's not hard to get or not in demand, we would not have threads complaining about it.

[DexterousGecko.6328]

6 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

You really don't need the dictionary definitions, do you?

I didn't, but you still answered. Thanks 🙂

[Buran.3796]

  My main objection (I'm 60%) is the amount of times that is not clear exactly what you need to do. Not things like getting some quests done, but much simpler things as "how exactly I do start the wuest" or "how much time I have to wait once I completed this quest to be able to activate the next one" or "where the hell is Gorrik". 

   Things as: after teaching in Vabbi you have to wait to the veteran to spawn and kill it, but NOTHING says that you have to do that, the quest just says teach in Vabbi. So you do it, complete the heart, nothing happens, you leave confused and don't complete the quest until 5 weeks later when you accidentally discover in a guide that a veteran undead appears later and you have to kill it.

   I started the Skyscale ~June; most quest have been fast and puerile, but the jumps between the quest have been obscure and akward...

[kharmin.7683]

11 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

To add, by the time anyone get to the Skyscale stage, they are no longer a newbie player. They would have gone through their Personal Story, probably done both HoT and PoF, or at least PoF. And will be at the very end of Living World S4. They should already be very familiar with most of the basics of the game. They should also be very familiar with the game's heavy reliance on Wiki and know how to search, or ask ingame.

 

I'm not sure that this is the case.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Its fine as it is but they could remove the double (and pointless) Skyscale hunt in Dragonfall.

[Silent.6137]

8 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I'm not sure that this is the case.

What is not the case? The person I responded to specifically said I'm no new player, but this is a problem a lot of new players will have when starting an MMO as old as this one. And you can't get to the skyscale stage without what I had mentioned.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

22 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

First: I did not say "no mounts". Second: There will always be some players with Griffon or Beetle (or who know the map better than you), that are faster at the next event. But you are not talking about Griffon or Beetle but Skyscale, and Skyscale is slow in comparison.

"I need a Skyscale to do Dragonfall" but you see a guy on a purple Griffon in the background absolutely zooming past everyone and their Skyscales.

[Silent.6137]

Tbh, I'm rather surprised at the voting results. That is assuming that everyone only voted once.

As of Nov 12th, with 230 votes, discounting the 5 that chose Others, that's 159/225 (70.67%) for keeping it the way it is or make it harder. 66/225 (29.33%) that prefer it to be easier or very easy. This includes those that don't care to get it.

I would had thought the percentage will be closer to 80% for the former. Of course, this is just the from those who frequent the forum but I still think it is a reflection of the overall playerbase +/- 5 to 10%.

Interestingly enough, no one chose NPC or Gem Store although a few wanted that option (from old threads). Perhaps they already got their Skyscale and have no time to waste on forun anymore.

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Bladestrom.6425]

6 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

Tbh, I'm rather surprised at the voting results. That is assuming that everyone only voted once.

As of Nov 12th, with 230 votes, discounting the 5 that chose Others, that's 159/225 (70.67%) for keeping it the way it is or make it harder. 66/225 (29.33%) that prefer it to be easier or very easy. This includes those that don't care to get it.

I would had thought the percentage will be closer to 80% for the former. Of course, this is just the from those who frequent the forum but I still think it is a reflection of the overall playerbase +/- 5 to 10%.

Interestingly enough, no one chose NPC or Gem Store although a few wanted that option (from old threads). Perhaps they already got their Skyscale and have no time to waste on forun anymore.

 

 

its not really surprising, in gaming forums the people who are happy with something often don't get involved in the given chat, so the actual proportion of players will be higher.   No one picked buying it I guess because buying the completion of a long term objective kinda defeats the purpose of mmorpg's and makes no sense.  Bear in mind long term objectives and collections are a big part of the GW USP that has been in place since the start of GW1.

Edited November 13, 2022 by vesica tempestas.1563

[ForTheBanter.9524]

I luckily managed to fast track a lot of the quest due to Return To... achievements but the longer I've had it the more I realise how insane this mount is, it trivialises basically all of core and a lot of HoT content, there are still a heck of a lot of players with it unlocked and making the quest any easier would be a mistake. It needs to be a lot of work.

[Silent.6137]

On 11/13/2022 at 2:55 AM, vesica tempestas.1563 said:

 

its not really surprising, in gaming forums the people who are happy with something often don't get involved in the given chat, so the actual proportion of players will be higher.   No one picked buying it I guess because buying the completion of a long term objective kinda defeats the purpose of mmorpg's and makes no sense.  Bear in mind long term objectives and collections are a big part of the GW USP that has been in place since the start of GW1.

Couldn't agree more. Majority will just play the game and take them as they come along without thinking twice. No reason to vent on forum if you're satisfied. Of course there will be those who are not but just couldn't be bothered to post.

Those who thinks the game should cater to their individual preferences and play-styles are probably extremely small percentage-wise.

Reason I added the option of Gem Store was because someone complained about how valuable their time was and it should be offered there.

[Metaljaw.6437]

On 11/8/2022 at 8:37 AM, Silent.6137 said:

Ah, but I'm polling forum posters. Not the whole GW community. As I said, to gauge if the general consensus here is that it's too grindy or just a few posters constantly repeating this mantra on various posts.

 

What surprises me is I'd think that forum people are the most likely to have multiple accounts. Having done skyscale on 2 account now, I definitely think it is too grindy. Especially since it is basically a must have nowadays.

[Silent.6137]

14 minutes ago, Metaljaw.6437 said:

What surprises me is I'd think that forum people are the most likely to have multiple accounts. Having done skyscale on 2 account now, I definitely think it is too grindy. Especially since it is basically a must have nowadays.

Did you feel it was too grindy the first time you did it?

For me it was very exciting doing all the steps during the initial release when everyone were doing the same thing. Players everywhere on the map trying to decipler the clues and locate all the items needed. No online guides existed yet. Just everyone sharing infos. And everyone trying to be the first few to get it.

Those doing the quest later, if they don't enjoy collection quests, it can be grindy. This is especially so when they see everyone on Skyscales and they are still quite a ways from completions. So as a result, their perceptions are somewhat skewed. Something that they might normally enjoy has become a chore.

[Sobx.1758]

31 minutes ago, Metaljaw.6437 said:

What surprises me is I'd think that forum people are the most likely to have multiple accounts. Having done skyscale on 2 account now, I definitely think it is too grindy.

Probably because you tunnel visioned on it on the second account. And that seems to mostly be the problem here: people focusing on rushing for the reward.

31 minutes ago, Metaljaw.6437 said:

Especially since it is basically a must have nowadays.

How is it a must have? It just isn't.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Sobx.1758