Jump to content
  • Sign Up

What if you solve some drought with map content?


Kyo.7369

Recommended Posts

It might seem like a Christmas tree decoration as a Christmas gift type scenario but honestly class balance, meta, server balance and structuring aside:

 

Why do we have 2 alpine borderlands still?

 

Why not have an in-between of EBG and Alpine, we have the extension of the Alpine borderland in the Desert BL.

 

It might favor servers with less players, why not have a map that's practically an extended version of a large middle-zone castle scenario like you have in EBG; where the towers act as walls to your spawn point or possibly a micro Hills/Bay node where the center acts as a capture point. The temples would likely be in the center keep or atop walls. Could it be a downward incline type map where the center is at the lowest point?

 

Just an idea, everyone wants more balance and content. This could solve EBG being the only quick-dirty hop-in and play fun without a commander or outside of a timezone.

 

It'll add some flavor and something new to keep people interested regardless, it could honestly be the size of Alpine or EBG depending on what world sorting balance looks like. It would add diversity, prevent the only jump-in spot to play from being stomped out if a server matchup has an overpowered pair.

 

Just an idea, I'm sure someone will crucify me for it because I'm not throwing numbers at you in regard to the current balancing issues.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No again this is one that is quite often requested and if it were to occur is probably also behind the WR project due to budget reasons. I can't see it it being the same resources. New maps are a regular topic and yes you will have people (guilty) that will also look forward to it and others that will always be against. The other 80% will depend on how it turns out and if it matches what they consider a 'good' map. Some people will want completely different mechanics and others will want the same. Some will want small, some large, some will want no verticality and some will want a lot. And so on. Keep requesting since as we have seen when Anet does not see posts on it they will think its all good. I do agree I miss the Devs to player threads on changes but if they do come back I also hope they lead them with the in game emails that they were going to occur so more players pop in here for the discussions.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/9/2022 at 9:05 PM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

New maps are a regular topic and yes you will have people (guilty) that will also look forward to it and others that will always be against. The other 80% will depend on how it turns out and if it matches what they consider a 'good' map.

If it's a topic that comes up often it's because it's something players often consider, it's something players actually want to see. Also if we think about having more maps to rotate periodically and constantly, it actually affects the game and the players, different maps = different strategies = more dynamic game = less boring game.

Every time the new calendar year begins, the development should prepare its investment program, (economic and time) and define its objectives for this year, with a view to costs - benefits.  In fact, they should find a way to incorporate this work into their work programme in some way.

When and if they decide to build a new map, it will be impossible to make everyone happy, you will always find someone who does not like etc etc and everything is normal and development should not matter, because the goal you will still have achieved, which is to give a bit of diversity and dynamism to this game mode. I can pretty much do it however I want and it will help the mode anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The must things to do regarding maps:

  • Remove desert map, 1 server having different map isn't fair for scoring. And it isn't popular at all. Going from 3 alpine maps to choose from to 2 was massive downgrade to WvW.
  • Make Halloween, Wintersday and Easter skins for WvW maps.
  • Ruins and EB neutral NPCs (ogres etc) should be reworked into something slightly more important and popular. I think Ruins should become a castle and NPCs minioutposts you can't upgrade (with walls you can destroy with weapon skills like we saw on desert map) so that they're on the side, not blocking direct passage.
Edited by Riba.3271
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, msalakka.4653 said:

There is no amount of new trinkets, gimmicks, or maps that will change the fact that the so-called fights are just kittening boring boonball parades.

Exactly.

The problems are in the mechanics, not feeling compelled for a change of scenery.

I prefer the look and feel of the Alpine maps better, too.  We haven't seen any content drop for a temperate alpine climate in like ten years lol.

And I'd actually prefer the opposite of more trinkets and fluff too -- I need more inventory space for bags and less particle-effect-spam to actually see what my opponent is doing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, msalakka.4653 said:

There is no amount of new trinkets, gimmicks, or maps that will change the fact that the so-called fights are just kittening boring boonball parades.

 

I agree boonballs are more of an issue in balance which again is one of the top 5 topics we see. Change in environment, could, not would mind you, could impact that but would still be an issue. They are trying to work on balance while they work on the WR project, since different resources. I think the same could apply to new maps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

If it's a topic that comes up often it's because it's something players often consider, it's something players actually want to see. Also if we think about having more maps to rotate periodically and constantly, it actually affects the game and the players, different maps = different strategies = more dynamic game = less boring game.

Every time the new calendar year begins, the development should prepare its investment program, (economic and time) and define its objectives for this year, with a view to costs - benefits.  In fact, they should find a way to incorporate this work into their work programme in some way.

When and if they decide to build a new map, it will be impossible to make everyone happy, you will always find someone who does not like etc etc and everything is normal and development should not matter, because the goal you will still have achieved, which is to give a bit of diversity and dynamism to this game mode. I can pretty much do it however I want and it will help the mode anyway.

 

Agree on a number of points here. Not everyone will be happy with new maps, some won't be happy with any. To point to particular points I think some players enjoying changing out how they come at fights and consider terrain another factor. I have 10 they have 50, how can I do this. Ok 5 decoy over there and the other 5 attack here. I hope the 5 decoys can lure and live and the 5 can take the objective or score the kills  and get out. Maps make that an option. New maps offer new options and new tactics for people to come up with. Maps keep thing fresh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Riba.3271 said:

The must things to do regarding maps:

  • Remove desert map, 1 server having different map isn't fair for scoring. And it isn't popular at all. Going from 3 alpine maps to choose from to 2 was massive downgrade to WvW.
  • Make Halloween, Wintersday and Easter skins for WvW maps.
  • Ruins and EB neutral NPCs (ogres etc) should be reworked into something slightly more important and popular. I think Ruins should become a castle and NPCs minioutposts you can't upgrade (with walls you can destroy with weapon skills like we saw on desert map) so that they're on the side, not blocking direct passage.

 

I will respectfully disagree, as I know you would know I would 🙂 . Maps can score the same but be different. ABL and DBL can both be in the rotation but all borderlands should play differently. Again in an ideal world all the borderlands would be swapped out weekly. All three would be different maps each week from the prior and a team not knowing what map that they will get when reset was triggering would mean they would need to adapt to the map that they were given to defend and maps they would need to attack for the week without knowing what map that would be. EBG, be it the same now or different later, would be the only constant. Now potentially on how the WR project works maybe two types of EBG maps, each different would remain the same each week if we were given 5 maps to account for larger populations and less queues. An additional idea of a fifth map could be a map that would be constant based on current living world season and would change when living world did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Maps can score the same but be different. ABL and DBL can both be in the rotation but all borderlands should play differently.

There are issues especially when 80% of tagged up commanders play exclusively alpine borderlands. Obviously desert and alpine maps upgrade different speeds and have varying difficulties on defending.

 

This will give some side massive advantage in scoring (the reason to play WvW when it is too hard or easy).

 

Also it isn't about having 1 popular map and 2 unpopular niche maps, it is about having 3 popular maps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Exactly.

The problems are in the mechanics, not feeling compelled for a change of scenery.

I prefer the look and feel of the Alpine maps better, too.  We haven't seen any content drop for a temperate alpine climate in like ten years lol.

And I'd actually prefer the opposite of more trinkets and fluff too -- I need more inventory space for bags and less particle-effect-spam to actually see what my opponent is doing.

 

I would say there is an issue with both. I agree on visual noise and that spell effects. I would say is an issue as well is also a topic brought brought up with mixed results, last time they tried and change that just like new maps there was suddenly issue with people saying why would you make this change. But these are not mutually exclusive topics. When talking maps we are mot talking about skin changes but different playing fields. If all they did was take an ABL and make it spring, that would do nothing on the topic. 'Cata wall bay' would still be cata wall bay. Instead it should be, where did you breach outer and where are you setting inner? 'NE ridge wall, SW catacomb wall'.  I would hope they learned that nothing that is ever considered a keep should be able to breached with the same set of siege in single location. I am saying this as a roamer/havoc player. I like DBL but it bugs me you can breach Stoic with the same set of siege too. Shouldn't be a thing on any map. EBG included. Those changes should already be in place or if not I hope in works. Keeps which have two walls should take more effort than towers but when you allow one wall breach to directly continue to the next its really not that different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

There are issues especially when 80% of tagged up commanders play exclusively alpine borderlands. Obviously desert and alpine maps upgrade different speeds and have varying difficulties on defending.

 

This will give some side massive advantage in scoring (the reason to play WvW when it is too hard or easy).

 

Also it isn't about having 1 popular map and 2 unpopular niche maps, it is about having 3 popular maps.

 

EBG is the only map I would label as popular in all the given link combos I have seen. But that said I wouldn't want 4 EBG but if you went by popular that's what you would see. Considering how many players were in EoTM, without asking why they were due to the variations, then it should have replaced all the home borderlands. But again think that wouldn't be a good idea either. Hence I could see having three different rotating home borderlands so players would have fresh challenges weekly. Add them in as you go so players can develop strategies to them and then after a bit rotate them out until all three are different from each other and new for the week until you have enough maps that players have seen them but they don't know which of the group they will have for the new week setup. This would give all levels of play new challenges. As far as commanders wanting to just jump to a new map and use the same reputative tactics, it does make it easier for them. It's also more boring and have seen new players say in map chat, why is this map the same as that other one are you all your doing is going in circles? That said a lot right there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

EBG is the only map I would label as popular in all the given link combos I have seen. But that said I wouldn't want 4 EBG but if you went by popular that's what you would see. Considering how many players were in EoTM, without asking why they were due to the variations, then it should have replaced all the home borderlands. But again think that wouldn't be a good idea either. Hence I could see having three different rotating home borderlands so players would have fresh challenges weekly. Add them in as you go so players can develop strategies to them and then after a bit rotate them out until all three are different from each other and new for the week until you have enough maps that players have seen them but they don't know which of the group they will have for the new week setup. This would give all levels of play new challenges. As far as commanders wanting to just jump to a new map and use the same reputative tactics, it does make it easier for them. It's also more boring and have seen new players say in map chat, why is this map the same as that other one are you all your doing is going in circles? That said a lot right there.

You are right, EB is super popular and thats why there should be 2 of them with differently designed middle castle.

 

Also there should be 3 alpine maps since it makes a big difference who is the defending side on the map. I would love choosing between varying maps as well, but if you take 1 tier off EU, 5 maps is perfect amount. So 4 tiers, 2 EB, 3 alpine. If you want to add unpopular neutral map alongside that, it would be acceptable. But 1 EB, 2 Alpine, 1 Desert is just terrible since it is just unfair that one servers home map is different and using 1 map slot out of 4 on unpopular map is just waste

Edited by Riba.3271
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

You are right, EB is super popular and thats why there should be 2 of them with differently designed middle castle.

 

Also there should be 3 alpine maps since it makes a big difference who is the defending side on the map. I would love choosing between varying maps as well, but if you take 1 tier off EU, 5 maps is perfect amount. So 4 tiers, 2 EB, 3 alpine. If you want to add unpopular neutral map alongside that, it would be acceptable. But 1 EB, 2 Alpine, 1 Desert is just terrible since it is just unfair that one servers home map is different and using 1 map slot out of 4 on unpopular map is just waste

 

We can agree we are both hoping that they might consider expanding map counts versus tiers if the populations are spread only by play hours versus hours and time of day. 🙂 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, msalakka.4653 said:

There is no amount of new trinkets, gimmicks, or maps that will change the fact that the so-called fights are just kittening boring boonball parades.

This.

 

If I can't enjoy the classes or combat or gameplay, then there's no point for new environments because wouldn't be playing at all, while if the game is enjoyable in those aspects you can at least push through any environment to keep playing, or skip to another environment.

League of legends has been on one map for like a decade, so guess what drives that game.

Gw2 has new living story maps every three months that practically get abandoned in a month.

Yeah, wvw could use a new map, the old maps could use some touchups(like I dunno add in a couple actual missing cornerstones lol), themes could be festive, add some more events around living story(which "teh realz wvw players" rejected long ago, enjoying your static maps now!), but anet doesn't want to waste their art or development resources there more than they need to.

 

Wvw could have been different if they hadn't designed the home borderlands concept and instead had like four ebg/eotm type maps to begin with. We have two alpines because designing another borderland might be a terribad idea, and alpines is loved more than desert so that only gets one, but both really should be converted to ebg type maps instead. But anet is not going to put in that work, wvw is not the cornerstone of the main house.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

The must things to do regarding maps:

  • Remove desert map, 1 server having different map isn't fair for scoring. And it isn't popular at all. Going from 3 alpine maps to choose from to 2 was massive downgrade to WvW.
  • Make Halloween, Wintersday and Easter skins for WvW maps.
  • Ruins and EB neutral NPCs (ogres etc) should be reworked into something slightly more important and popular. I think Ruins should become a castle and NPCs minioutposts you can't upgrade (with walls you can destroy with weapon skills like we saw on desert map) so that they're on the side, not blocking direct passage.

Ruins is probably the largest best change to wvw since launch. Overwriting it with the worst idea I have ever seen would actually be hilarious in an off way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

'' de gustibus non disputandum est '' Our Latin ancestors were already saying.

 

What I like, you don't like is normal, because tastes are all different. So please guys don't be so limited in your desires, don't ask for 1 new map, ask for 10 new maps.

they will all be different, you will play them all differently, (once you respect the proportions and distances between the structures, you are completely free to do everything you want)

 Diversity is a precious quality, you don't have to be afraid of it, you don't have to judge it, you don't have to critatize it, you just have to learn about it.

 

P.S. But what's so difficult in creating a new map or setting in WWW. They created virtually endless PEV maps. Is it possible to argue that it is such a demanding programming job? Technically why?

Edited by Mabi black.1824
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

'' de gustibus non disputandum est '' Our Latin ancestors were already saying.

 

What I like, you don't like is normal, because tastes are all different. So please guys don't be so limited in your desires, don't ask for 1 new map, ask for 10 new maps.

they will all be different, you will play them all differently, (once you respect the proportions and distances between the structures, you are completely free to do everything you want)

 Diversity is a precious quality, you don't have to be afraid of it, you don't have to judge it, you don't have to critatize it, you just have to learn about it.

 

P.S. But what's so difficult in creating a new map or setting in WWW. They created virtually endless PEV maps. Is it possible to argue that it is such a demanding programming job? Technically why?

 

Quite true. Ego amore quod, though I am way too rusty and lost too many brain cells at this point. Time catches us all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...