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Is PvE Spellbreaker going to receive a hit?


Telgum.6071

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Bladesworn is not for me, don't enjoy the gameplay. Berserker is "ok" I guess, once the bugs are fixed. But the gameplay I really enjoy overall in all content is Core/Spellbreaker. I find myself playing Warrior again outside WvW because I can bring Spellbreaker and a lot of damage to the table, but how worth is investing time refining the rotation to bring the maximum of the spec? Do you think Spellbreaker's damage will be reduced in PvE to make room for Berserker and Bladesworn?

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2 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Bladesworn is not for me, don't enjoy the gameplay. Berserker is "ok" I guess, once the bugs are fixed. But the gameplay I really enjoy overall in all content is Core/Spellbreaker. I find myself playing Warrior again outside WvW because I can bring Spellbreaker and a lot of damage to the table, but how worth is investing time refining the rotation to bring the maximum of the spec? Do you think Spellbreaker's damage will be reduced in PvE to make room for Berserker and Bladesworn?

Seems unlikely. They've gone out of their way to buff SpB dmg in PvE over the last few patches. And it's by no means outperforming the top specs, so I can't imagine they would nerf it.

 

You'll know for sure after tomorrow's live stream where they preview the Nov patch!

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2 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

The Tactics traitline might see nerfs to it's DPS contribution (as Warrior's ostensibly support line) which will pretty much impact all current power DPS Warrior builds. 

Which power DPS builds use tactics? Aren't they all strength + discipline (or maybe defense)? Can't remember the last time I ran tactics in a damage focused build, I only bring it in my open-world-never-going-to-die built.

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9 minutes ago, Scalacious.4139 said:

Which power DPS builds use tactics? Aren't they all strength + discipline (or maybe defense)? Can't remember the last time I ran tactics in a damage focused build, I only bring it in my open-world-never-going-to-die built.

Instanced content focused DPS builds have all dropped Discipline ever since the patch that removed raw stats from Banners, since without that trait Discipline offered very little DPS modifiers. The strongest power DPS builds now generally are Strength/Tactics/[Elite Spec].

The only exception would be Power Berserker who is hard locked into Discipline due to heavy reliance on [Axe Mastery]'s adrenaline generation. This is also related to why you might see a lot of posting about Power Berserker being weak.

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11 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

Instanced content focused DPS builds have all dropped Discipline ever since the patch that removed raw stats from Banners, since without that trait Discipline offered very little DPS modifiers. The strongest power DPS builds now generally are Strength/Tactics/[Elite Spec].

The only exception would be Power Berserker who is hard locked into Discipline due to heavy reliance on [Axe Mastery]'s adrenaline generation. This is also related to why you might see a lot of posting about Power Berserker being weak.

Tactics gives 10% more damage to foes affected with movement-impairing conditions + 1% for every boon on yourself.

Discipline gives 10% more damage if you have swiftness, 3% more damage for every boon on the enemy and 7% more damage on burst together with less cooldown on bursts. (plus other benefits like fast hands)
I don't really see how one would take tactics over discipline in most cases.

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10 minutes ago, Scalacious.4139 said:

Tactics gives 10% more damage to foes affected with movement-impairing conditions + 1% for every boon on yourself.

Discipline gives 10% more damage if you have swiftness, 3% more damage for every boon on the enemy and 7% more damage on burst together with less cooldown on bursts. (plus other benefits like fast hands)
I don't really see how one would take tactics over discipline in most cases.

Well.

Tactics has Might+Quickness and extra dmg from Leg Specialist, Warriors Cunning and Empowered.

Disc offers not that much if you dont play axes or dont weaponswap often. Which you really are not doing currently.

7% Extra Burst dmg us nice and all but its just for one skill and add the fact that the Master Traits are all very medicore(They are all 3 useless really) when you dont play Banners.

In reallity, Disc is just a Minor dmg increase and Fast Hands. If you dont use Weaponswap or dont need to swap every 5 seconds... well....

Edited by DanAlcedo.3281
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4 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Well.

Tactics has Might+Quickness and extra dmg from Leg Specialist, Warriors Cunning and Empowered.

Disc offers not that much if you dont play axes or dont weaponswap often. Which you really are not doing currently.

7% Extra Burst dmg us nice and all but its just for one skill and add the fact that the Master Traits are all very medicore(They are all 3 useless really) when you dont play Banners.

In reallity, Disc is just a Minor dmg increase and Fast Hands. If you dont use Weaponswap... well....

Why wouldn't you weapon swap? It gives you more skills to use, might and sigils to proc. You've got two weapon sets, kind of a 50% waste not to use one of them. And less cooldown on bursts is pretty nice as well.

Tactics only gives you more damage for the beginning of the fight while the enemy is above 80% health.

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Spellbreaker directly? Likely not.

Spellbreaker indirectly? Maybe.

The issue is that the devs tend to balance around the issues and, for e-specs, it often mean nerfing core. And of course when core is nerfed all e-specs take the hit. So, let's say they think bladesworn need a 5% shave to it's damage output, you got 80% chance that they will remove those 5% damage out of core and thus berserker and spellbreaker might lose those 5% damage as well (That's a theoretical example, I have no opinion whatsoever on the damage output of bladesworn).

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In PvE, hell no. Spellbreaker was in junkyard for a long time. Time to enjoy. Actually I expect some buffs to offhand dagger, especially dagger 5.

 

In PvP, maybe need a little nerf to its sustain. (A little only, not much) Now almost impossible to kill in duels. It was Bladesworn before 4th october, now spellbreaker took the throne. 

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The problem in PvE with tactics builds is the boon application, might and especially, free quickness from "Martial Cadence"  so stacking warrior builds is strong for speedclears.

So what is my guess that Anet will do on Nov29th? Correct, they will nerf damage instead of adressing the real issue of free boon application, thus making every power warrior build (bsw, spb) unviable, keep smiling and say "Warrior was too strong in group content". 

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5 hours ago, Scalacious.4139 said:

Why wouldn't you weapon swap? It gives you more skills to use, might and sigils to proc. You've got two weapon sets, kind of a 50% waste not to use one of them. And less cooldown on bursts is pretty nice as well.

Tactics only gives you more damage for the beginning of the fight while the enemy is above 80% health.

The main instanced builds are BSW atm which focuses on DT, so not a lot of actual weapon swapping.

 

That and really it's just abusing the 30% quickness uptime on Martial Cadence. Had that trait been placed in Arms then people would be running Arms.

Still, it's good that people are moving away from Discipline.

Edited by Lan Deathrider.5910
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5 hours ago, Scalacious.4139 said:

Tactics gives 10% more damage to foes affected with movement-impairing conditions + 1% for every boon on yourself.

Discipline gives 10% more damage if you have swiftness, 3% more damage for every boon on the enemy and 7% more damage on burst together with less cooldown on bursts. (plus other benefits like fast hands)
I don't really see how one would take tactics over discipline in most cases.

You can feel free to do better than these guys if you don't believe that tactics is overall more DPS. The boons Tactics provides is on top of being just straight more damage - which is why it will probably get nerfed one way or another.

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If they really balance around some kind of "power budget", Spellbreaker (or any other part of Warrior) should not be hit with nerfs.

In comparison to other professions, there's no way Warrior, or any of its specializations, even spent a third of its "power budget" (assuming all professions have the same  budget).

If Warrior gets hit with any nerfs, I take that as proof that the "power budget" talk was nothing but fluff.

Edited by Fueki.4753
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I think the answer is no, since the livestream slides say that Breaching Strike now does extra damage to foes without boons in PVE.

I don't know the point about the Enchantment Collapse change, since it is talking about cooldown and says a number below 1. 

P.S. Bloody Roar is going to be bugfixed for Berserker , yay

Edited by Infusion.7149
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3 minutes ago, Mikali.9651 said:

wait, was that one page of "changes" the only change warrior is getting?

To be fair from a PVE benchmark point of view warrior is in a decent spot if other specs are balanced properly. (If you don't want to deal with the positioning of bladesworn you can play spellbreaker or condi berserker.) Nov 29 balance is more or less geared toward PVE players so I think Arenanet's logic this patch is "wait and see" how it shakes out.

Edit: for people that don't know the one pages of changes it's this
Warrior

  • Bloody Roar Bug fix
  • Outrage: now grants longer berserker extension when an enemy is nearby. (PVE) Bonus berserk time reduced from 5 to 3 
  • Scorched Earth (WVW): Increased power coefficient from 0.35 to 0.42 ---- note this is per hit, it's 3 hits
  • Enchantment Collapse (WVW)  : Increased cooldown from 0.99 to 1.4  --- this doesn't make sense to me maybe they meant Break Enchantments ; It still would not be cooldown but power coefficient instead
  • Breaching Strike: Now deals bonus damage to foes without boons
  • The following now grant their bonuses against defiant enemies:
    • Fierce Blow
    • Unsuspecting Foe (25%)
    • Merciless Hammer
Edited by Infusion.7149
add notes from the slide
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26 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

To be fair from a PVE benchmark point of view warrior is in a decent spot if other specs are balanced properly.

Honestly gotta agree with this one (including the caveat for Bladesworn).

While the changes for the Firebrand aren't world-shattering, seeing those changes (plus the Kneel changes for Deadeye) gives me hope to see a mechanical/trait overhaul for Bladesworn to make it fit better into GW2 mechanically.

Balance-wise, the Warrior was getting edged out by a lot of professions simply because they (other professions) could do it all. Recent balance patches have helped alleviate that--with Banners being a solid redesign in my opinion--and opening up the Warrior kit away from the Axe/GS meta. I've been having a blast with a Quick-Ham-Zerker build.

It's not perfect but it's inching towards a better state a lot faster than it has over the last 10 years.

Edited by Geoff Fey.1035
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The Unsuspecting Foe and Merciless Hammer changes will be nice in PvE. That coupled with the Breaching Strike change might push Spellbreaker's benchmark closer to BSW. An extra +25% critical chance on the BBEG means less precision is needed and you can run Dragon's gear for more ferocity.  Bloody Roar being fixed will be a relief.

I like the changes they made to Firebrand, I think that will go a long way to opening up design space for OTHERS. I also like the kneel changes. I think they will watch these changes hard and leverage them in altering BSW in the future.

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48 minutes ago, Mikali.9651 said:

but I thought this was a Major balance patch? It seems smaller than the previous one. No changes to weapon or utility skills really, even traits. It's like a minor patch we used to get that were just damage coefficient changes. Other classes got much more...

Warrior got a lot more attention in the previous patch, so it makes sense it got less for this one. At least I was expecting that, not sure about what others were expecting. Two months in a row of huge Warrior changes would have been nice, but truthfully that would be a silly expectation.

At the very least they made some big changes to Firebrand that may bring it more in line and may drag it down, at least close enough, to where the rest of us plebeians reside. Though I'm sure Firebrand players are going to throw what amounts to a "hissy fit" over the coming weeks over this.

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