Battle Mechanics Request

[SoulGuardian.6203]

Edit:

 

Graphics:

 

● Update textures on World Bosses, such as Claw of Jormag.

● Reduce some excessive visual effects.

Fights, just like the one with Balthazar, are too overwhelming, saturated with way too many aoes, colours, projectiles, etc.

 

Combat Mechanics:

 

 ● Please add Attack patterns and moves to world bosses

Some combat mechanics are very repetitive, and only require dodging a few aoes.

Then everyone piles up at the base of the Dragon's  foot and spams dps.

This is the case with Claw of Jormag, Tetqualt, The Shatterer, Drakkar, and some others.

● I would like to see Dragons bite, stomp, slash with claws, spew fire, ice, etc.

 

Improve less popular boss battles, and create new ones:

 

● Add a World Boss in Charr territory. 

● Make the centaur boss fight in hirathi hinterlands more interesting. 

● Increase popularity in Siren's Landing Dragon Boss fight; even if it has to be moved somewhere else.

This is one of the funnest, most enjoyable boss fights, but less popular.

 

Rewards:

● Increase Rewards in end game and level 80 boss fights.

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by SoulGuardian.6203
Removed unecessary text. Kept it short and simple.

[Sobx.1758]

On 11/11/2022 at 11:25 AM, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

World boss fights are a good example on how fights should have been kept.

Disagreed, they are way too basic and easy. Which is ok for core content where players start playing the game, but vouching to have more basic core-like content while at the same time making a thread titled "bring gw2 into the future" is quite a conflict between the title and the body of your post. If there's a need to rework/update some of the fights you've mentioned, it's not because of the clutter(?) but probably because of the power creep that basically killed their intended eccounter design.

 

 

edit for context: the whole first post and the title of the thread are now edited into something different than they initially were.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Perhaps, updating one's computer would alleviate some of the issues.

Good luck. 

[Zok.4956]

46 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

We all know why I'm typing in this post.

No. "we all" can not read minds. 😎

 

47 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

I think that the mere fact that I'm typing this is a clear and straight foward indication that I care about the company and the game, and I want them to succeed.

The mere fact that someone is writing on a forum can have a lot of different reasons.😉

 

49 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

I wish that GW2 would bring up new stuff, in order to keep up with competition. 

I wish that, too. More (good) content is always a good thing.

 

51 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Fights, just like the one with Balthazar, are too overwhelming, saturated with way too many aoes, colours, projectiles, etc.

It's in my oppinion, a total mess, and too much visual noise.

Which fight are you referring to actually?

But I do agree that a lot of fights in GW2 have too much visual noise. Players are complaining about this for a long time and asking Anet to reduce it with maybe add options, sliders in the settings, etc. etc..

 

54 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

As much as I like the combat system in Guild Wars 2, sometimes I wish that in certain battles and certain Instances, it would be a little slower but more strategic, just like its ancestor was.

Well, I don't think this will change. GW2 combat is intentionally more action oriented than GW1. I think the fights in GW1 were slow and boring compared to GW2 and I am glad that GW2 is different.

 

57 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Every class should be able to survive doing solo content, but be a useful asset in party content.

I played every class in solo content and survived, so that's already possible. And to make every class useful in party content is already one of Anets goals.

And from the rest of your text it seems you are writing mostly about the details of how to change some world bosses in the core game and how all worldbosse should be like the ones in the Core game/starter Zones. Anet did recently change some of those world bosses. And further changes to them probably won't have that much of an impact on "bringing GW2 into the future".

[SoulGuardian.6203]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Disagreed, they are way too basic and easy. Which is ok for core content where players start playing the game, but vouching to have more basic core-like content while at the same time making a thread titled "bring gw2 into the future" is quite a conflict between the title and the body of your post. If there's a need to rework/update some of the fights you've mentioned, it's not because of the clutter(?) but probably because of the power creep that basically killed their intended eccounter design.

As I mentioned. 

Sometimes less is more.

I did say I wasn't going to mention other games titles, but did gave several examples in which boss fights are fun, hard, lenghty, and yet they are very neat looking fights, without saturating the screen.

 

It's not contradicting at all stating that a fight that is overfilled with visual clutter, such as balthazar, could be a fun battle by using more strategy rather than overwhelm the player with so many aoes, and that is obviously done for the player to die 50+ times before you actually defeat Balthazar in the final fight.

 

Visual clutter does not define end content.

 

As  i mentioned, those few games I'm refering to have final bosses, secret bosses, or the ultimate Boss/Bounty/Legendary equivalents, Where effects are applied in the right areas, such as a Dragon's Fire Breath, a Healing effect, but still have a pattern of attack.

Other games have extremely hard bosses to beat, yet the visual effects are kept into a minimum.

 

Essentially, the exaggeration of aoes does not define the quality of product and the "end game" content.

 

I think that using an overwhelming amount of aoes and visual effects are way exaggerated and are more of a facade rather than using true strategy for a boss fight.

 

Did I say to keep them exactly like core world bosses? Not really.

I did say as an "Example"

World bosses aren't exactly easy though, as you're implying.

10 players cannot win a world boss fight.

You need on average 25+ players.

 

So what I'm suggesting, is to keep or increase the Dragon Health pool so it requires a certain amount of players to defeat it, but in cases like the outdated fights with tequalt, claw, and Shatterer; which I think visually are fine, by the way, just give it a few more moves, and make rewards better.

 

Ok. Let me give you a good clear example.

 

Say in the fight with Claw.

Never at any point this Dragon tries to shake enemies (that'll be us) away from it, by neither throwing its "Claw" or a headstomp, or a side to side ice breath.

 

I think the wyvern fight in Siren's Landing is a much better fight than any of the 3 dragon champions.

Why?

 

The wyvern dragon has just about the right necessary elements for a good, hard, fun, and interesting boss fight; including the glider updrafts, and booster artefacts. 

It's just a shame that it does not have more player's participation. 

The rewards just don't justify people's time and effort.

Which again. It's such a shame.

 

Perfect example.

It's an end game boss fight.

Has just the right amount of elements. No more no less.

 

This fight could have well been done on a bigger scale.

This Dragon would be a tremendous 50+ player boss fight, if only was tweeked for that purpose, on a bigger area.

 

We do have Verdant Brink wyverns.

But comparing both wyverns. 

One from Siren and the others from verdant, that's exactly what I mean going from a fun strategic boss fight in Sirens into an extreme boring and just spam dps visually overwhelming fight in Verdant Brink.

 

This is exactly what I mean.

 

I don't find it fun 50+ players pilled up in one spot, like the repetition of a Dragon's foot, and just spam dps.

In all my videogames history and have played thousands of games think that method or battle system is anything fun and joyful. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Urud.4925]

Totally agree on the excessive visual noise in recent (from PoF onwards) content. Both fights against Balthazar are indeed full of AoEs and stuff going on, and I also died several times, the first time that I did them (still, less than the first time in Caudecus story). They became much much easier on my alt characters, after some experience, so I think it means it's just a matter of knowing the fight. But being Balthazar the god of war, I think that it's fine to have some challenge against him. So much fire.

 

Still, even if I'm the only one who put a like instead of a confused, I personally agree on your general point of view: simple and tough fights, like the one against Mordremoth, feel more rewarding than fights with a lot of stuff on screen. Metas like the one in Thunderhead Peak are extremely confused, even if the mechanics are interesting, in the end. You're just glad when it's over.

But this is how you sell a videogame nowadays, putting a lot of visual effects on screen, because more explosions = more fun, right?

About fractals, I had a bad experience at the beginning, when I wanted to learn them by joining a guild that ran "easy and chill fractal runs", but in the end I even quit the guild because they didn't explain anything, and I felt even more confused than playing with pugs in T1. The reason why sometimes you see T4 players running T1, is that 1 daily quest asks you to run a t1 fractal, even if your level is higher.

I find fractals a good content for what you ask actually: they have good mechanics, without being particularly confusing, visually. Give it another go.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Urud.4925

[soulknight.9620]

Confusing as always. 

Fun is subjective. 

Agree on the visual noise. Some fights need a bit of a tone down. But tbh there are not that many that actually need it. 

As for world bosses i disagree. World bosses are suppose to be an easy and simple experience for new players to get into metas and instanced content. When they reworked the low lvl world bosses anet actually stated that they added more visuals to help people get used to these mechanics. Its basically a "training golem" for some mechanics. World bosses are not supposed to be hard content like in other MMOs. The harder content is metas (like End of Dragons meta) and instanced content (strikes/raids/fractals/dungeons). 

As for mechanics. Its basically easy to beat any boss if you study its patterns a bit. Mechanics are simple and easily doable (aside from some hardcore achievements). Balthazar fight is not even that hard. The real issue is when a legendary or regular bounty has affixes like "drop a dmg puddle under a boss" which is pared with a "barrier that blocks ranged attacks". Now this can be a pain, but still soloable.

And yeah, every class is currently able to do (and survive!) any solo content. If anyone cant - he needs to check his build or put more practice in that class (aka git gud). 

As for the title. Gw2 is a modern MMO that has a lot of innovative gameplay elements that no other game has at the same lvl as gw2 has it (mount system, wvw, metas, etc). Anet surely doesnt need to bring it "into the future". 

[poop.4183]

Well , for the virtual noise , matter of taste , it's kind of challenging having aoes on top of aoes on top of other aoes , and being able to determinate which one your charcater can deal with , as awlays it's a matter of taste , can't make evryone happy , personnaly i like the way the game deal with endgame content , the last strike with the 3 robots is an aoe fest , and i like it !

Edited November 11, 2022 by poop.4183

[SoulGuardian.6203]

1 hour ago, Urud.4925 said:

Totally agree on the excessive visual noise in recent (from PoF onwards) content. Both fights against Balthazar are indeed full of AoEs and stuff going on, and I also died several times, the first time that I did them (still, less than the first time in Caudecus story). They became much much easier on my alt characters, after some experience, so I think it means it's just a matter of knowing the fight. But being Balthazar the god of war, I think that it's fine to have some challenge against him. So much fire.

 

Still, even if I'm the only one who put a like instead of a confused, I personally agree on your general point of view: simple and tough fights, like the one against Mordremoth, feel more rewarding than fights with a lot of stuff on screen. Metas like the one in Thunderhead Peak are extremely confused, even if the mechanics are interesting, in the end. You're just glad when it's over.

But this is how you sell a videogame nowadays, putting a lot of visual effects on screen, because more explosions = more fun, right?

About fractals, I had a bad experience at the beginning, when I wanted to learn them by joining a guild that ran "easy and chill fractal runs", but in the end I even quit the guild because they didn't explain anything, and I felt even more confused than playing with pugs in T1. The reason why sometimes you see T4 players running T1, is that 1 daily quest asks you to run a t1 fractal, even if your level is higher.

I find fractals a good content for what you ask actually: they have good mechanics, without being particularly confusing, visually. Give it another go.

 

Thanks for the like.

 

I guess what I'm ultimately trying to explain, but probably failing to do so clearly is that one of the points is this:

 

I don't find particularly fun that almost every boss fight has the same pattern; in which everyone stands on the same spot, popular example, a Dragon's foot, all pile up in the same spot and spam dps, without any strategy whatsoever other than dodging aoes; when there are much better bosses that have been thrown into a corner and forgotten.

Siren's Landing Wyvern as the perfect example, and candidate for a much larger scale Boss Fight.

 

Also agree with you that Dragon's Stand is a good example of a good fun boss fight.

 

Furthermore, in exchange for less clutter, some of the skins could be improved, just like Claw of Jormag.

This Dragon could look so much better and have a few more moves added to it.

Like a proper Claw slash at the players party.

A freezing breath from side to side of the area.

Update it just like the bosses in the starting areas were.

 

Notice how many dragons get defeated the same way. 

(Standing by its foot and spam dps)

Claw of Jormag, The Shatterer, Tetqualt, Drakkar, Fire Elemental, Golem Mark 2, The Great Destroyer, Jungle wurm (Though much better now after update). Etc etc.

 

Then on the other hand you have almost impossible boss fights, such as TT, because

1. Hardly ever find enough players.

2. Even to this day, the majority don't know how to kill them. Even though this could be an awesome boss fight due precisely to the strategy required; which I like, but is way too hard for a mid level area, due to the overwhelming amount of champions, and other visual clutter, on top of everything.

 

Thanks for the like again.

I gave you a trophy. 👍

Edited November 11, 2022 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Malus.2184]

There needs to be more general balancing. For example, a general limitation on how often player can enter Stealth would have no effect on the average player and a high effect on the players at the top-end who can really abuse this.

Likewise with Mesmer projections, putting a cap on how often they could be generated would have a low impact on everyone exept the top-end of performance.

The GW2 balance team wants to target specs that has a high good performance and then have an extreme performance beyond that whom only a small base of the players can reach. Specific scaling will solve nothing and will most likely hit the good performance a lot harder than the extreme performance.

Likewise, unique effects should be changed from being applied by specific Skill Types and being applied by the Profession mechanics of that Profession. Examples would be that Warrior's Peak Performance was triggered by Burst Skills instead of Physical Skills so wthere was no need to be forced into taking them. Or Specter Alac was triggered by entering and exiting Shadowform so they could use the Wells that had a Utility Boon for actual utility purposes.

Firebrand, even after the expected nerf will still be an objectively better choice than, for example, Soecter since their Quickness is applied through Profession mechanics and they can use their Utility slots for utility instead of as part of their rotation.

The same with Mechanist as support. Their support ability is baked into their Profession mechanic or a part of their weapons. Any utility skill they have only enhances this or can be used for actual utility when needed.

The smoothest gameplay experience will always be had by those Professions that can work without having the type of Utility decided for them and having to use it rotationally, in which case, it's no longer for utility.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Malus.2184

[SuavePuppy.2809]

So this lengthy post mostly boils down to: we need less visual clutter, more clarity, less spam and more positioning. When it comes to visual clutter, this is probably the only thing that the forum seems to mostly agree on - there's too much of it. But this has been said many times.

Stack and smack some people like, some people don't. I think what they've shown with the EOD strikes is a step in the right direction though.

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

and that is obviously done for the player to die 50+ times before you actually defeat Balthazar in the final fight.

It obviously isn't since it's not exactly hard to do it without dying at all. Understand the pattern and react accordingly.

6 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

I think that using an overwhelming amount of aoes and visual effects are way exaggerated and are more of a facade rather than using true strategy for a boss fight.

Some of the aoes -in group content- are there to force the movement from the players instead of letting them curl into a ball of heals and shields while ignoring anything that's happening around.

6 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Did I say to keep them exactly like core world bosses? Not really.

I did say as an "Example"

Yes, you've said example and those examples is what I'm commenting on. Was I supposed to somehow completely disregard them? I'm not sure what's the issue with my response with that?

6 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

World bosses aren't exactly easy though, as you're implying.

10 players cannot win a world boss fight.

You need on average 25+ players.

Yes, world bosses are easy. Yes, world bosses very much can be beaten by 10 players. IF they couldn't though, it wouldn't be due to their "difficulty", but because of the dmg vs boss hp numbers and time limits. So even with what you're saying here, it's not focusing on the encounter difficulty, but rather the sponginess/scaling of those bosses.

Anyways, if you just want more interesting mechanics in fights, then sure, I agree. It's just that core world bosses aren't a great example of that at all imo.

___

5 hours ago, Urud.4925 said:

They became much much easier on my alt characters, after some experience, so I think it means it's just a matter of knowing the fight.

Yup, that's what it is.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Einsof.1457]

i disagree with pretty much everything the op said. 

[SoulGuardian.6203]

2 hours ago, SuavePuppy.2809 said:

So this lengthy post mostly boils down to: we need less visual clutter, more clarity, less spam and more positioning. When it comes to visual clutter, this is probably the only thing that the forum seems to mostly agree on - there's too much of it. But this has been said many times.

Stack and smack some people like, some people don't. I think what they've shown with the EOD strikes is a step in the right direction though.

Pretty much, in a nutshell.

 

I agree... well, at least the only strike I've done is pretty good indeed.

 

You seem like an intelligent person.

You understood everything.

 

I wish ANet used the same they did in EoD and applied everywhere possible.

 

Obviously a few battles can't be altered. Period.

 

But for instance, making the Dragon fight in Siren Landing on a bigger scale would be a really good start.

[Randulf.7614]

Any chances of editing the post to be more readable? It’s an overly long post, but it’s made worse by writing a sentence then having huge breaks between. Concise and well structured helps people like me read their ideas easier. Thanks

[Ashen.2907]

8 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

making the fight impossible to beat without your character dying at least 30 times.

Didnt you, in the paragraph before this line, hold up as a positive thing an encounter in another game where even hardcore players will fail 50 times before succeeding? If hardcore players are failing 50 times then the more casual will lose hundreds of times. Why is that loss rate good in other games but a lesser loss rate is oppressively bad here? And, as a casual, I have yet to run into any content in GW2 which is impossble without dyimg 30, let alone hundreds, of times.

100% agreed about the visual noise though.

[Nine Inch Snails.7963]

5 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Any chances of editing the post to be more readable? It’s an overly long post, but it’s made worse by writing a sentence then having huge breaks between. Concise and well structured helps people like me read their ideas easier. Thanks

I agree.  I stopped reading the OP early on because of the excessive spacing.  But I'm guessing from other responses it has something to do with visual noise. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Nine Inch Snails.7963

[kharmin.7683]

13 minutes ago, Nine Inch Snails.7963 said:

I agree.  I stopped reading the OP early on because of the excessive spacing.  But I'm guessing from other responses it has something to do with visual noise. 

Which is kinda ironic, isn't it?

[Khisanth.2948]

Things take time!

Quote

Added profession mechanic skills (such as necromancer shroud) to the Weapon Skills section of the Build tab in the Hero panel.

This took 10 years.

Check back in another 10 years.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Khisanth.2948

[SoulGuardian.6203]

49 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Any chances of editing the post to be more readable? It’s an overly long post, but it’s made worse by writing a sentence then having huge breaks between. Concise and well structured helps people like me read their ideas easier. Thanks

Yeah, will do.

It was typed in a rush, so I can see how it can be a little confusing.

[Adonan.7985]

I won't lean on one side or the other of this fence, but I will say it's funny to see this post. I remember when this game first launched, it was praised for its innovative spirit. The heart system in place of quests, the skills being tied to your weapon, and the reactive dodging were all considered new and fresh back then.

[Randulf.7614]

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Snails.7963 said:

I agree.  I stopped reading the OP early on because of the excessive spacing.  But I'm guessing from other responses it has something to do with visual noise. 

I have a hard job focusing on reading on a screen, so well formatted posts make it easier for me to read, even on mobile

[disco.9302]

Read a few lines of OPs post. What a grossly unnecessary torrent of words. Who's gonna read all that? You could have just condensed it to one phrase: too much visual noise, please tone down.

 

I am astonished by how much of you text is just filler with no actual meaning.

 

Edit: how ironic that you edited your post by cutting out the 8 pages of fluff after I posted 

Edited November 11, 2022 by disco.9302

[Randulf.7614]

Thanks OP.

I’m a bit on the fence with Harathi. I think the essence of it is fine for mid level meta. In fact I think overall it’s one of the better meta chains in the core maps. Making sure the boss has the right health I think is probably the only improvement it needs.

And less flashy effects

[SoulGuardian.6203]

1 minute ago, disco.9302 said:

Read a few lines of OPs post. What a grossly unnecessary torrent of words. Who's gonna read all that? You could have just condensed it to one phrase: too much visual noise, please tone down.

 

I am astonished by how much of you text is just filler with no actual meaning.

I admit it was way too much.

It's short and sweet now.

 

I might add a few more things,  but will keep ot relevant.

 

6 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I have a hard job focusing on reading on a screen, so well formatted posts make it easier for me to read, even on mobile

 

Ok fellow.

I kept it simple and objective now.

I did type way too much unecessary stuff.

It's one of them. 😂