November 29 Balance Update Preview

[poop.4183]

I hope further improvements for ele , it's not a scepter update (that i used for healtempest , now bb , stuck with dagger water 2 for healing at 400 range , wooohoooo...) that will make it more plays .

No change on alacrity generator for tempest (worst alacrity generator of the game by far)

TY ! rid off the -10% on cata ! TYYYYYY !!!! this abomination of a trait made me puke when i hover with my mouse on it .

And weaver , ... honestly feels like an april fools joke ... just 4 bleeds on sword earth/water , we dont attune to water as condi weaver !!!! kitten you expect us to play air for fresh air as condi ????

I expected a lot more for ele , just hope thats not all you have in storage .

Reminder , people in ele forums are asking for pulsing alac from overloads , or a way to combine bastion of elements or transcendent tempest with alacrity (alacrity share on auras share , maybe ...) if not those change this will state the temepst as the worst healalac and the worst dpsalac of the game , and dont bring up that ele has awesome heals , now he has literally no ranged heals available ... after this pacth ofc , and thats not a buggy soothing water tahts gonna save it . And staff is not an option , the might/fury share and boon extension was the main reason to play healtempest , dagger is an awfull option for healing , dagger 2 is too weak and is so narrow , you nearly need to be at melee to be 'efficient'.

Weaver is THE glass canon of the game (if you go full dps) so it need to be at the podium dps wise , if not , why playing it ? Sword is awfull and will still be awfull after this patch.

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by poop.4183

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 minute ago, Brasides.9360 said:

 

 

 

 

Nice to know I'm not alone here. There was no mechanical reason to play sword weaver. There is still no reason to play sword weaver (except that it is fun). The kicked dog remains a kicked dog.

Why have an elite spec weapon when there is basically no reason to choose it over the scepter? Scepter has higher damage and more range - currently the only reason to play a sword is if you want to challenge yourself to survive on the least survivable PvE spec.

What's worse is we've had numerous threads on the forums and reddit talking about this.  If you were going to make changes to weaver this was the obvious top priority.  Very disappointing.

[Will.9785]

So people have already run the numbers and the optimal strat for DPS firebrand will be to use Ashes of the Just and drop the tome and use nothing else because you can't afford to delay ashes and even with alacrity you don't have enough pages for anything else.

You said you wanted decision making but this is anything but.

Congrats ANet.  You really thought this one through.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Will.9785

[SilentSpiriT.4123]

Deadeye change is a joke.

[Brasides.9360]

1 minute ago, Griifen.2473 said:

Untamed got buffed lol. The rotation won't change at all so it'll still be very difficult to pull off, but wow it's definitely going to go above 42k dps that its current dominating with. 

I'm a newer player using untamed. I'm curious if you or others see a lot of untamed in higher tier fractals/raids, because when I do t2-t3 fractals I have only ever seen 1 or 2 other untamed, and never a more experienced player getting all the juice out of it.

I know it is top of the charts on the golem, but is it actually a popular choice in instanced PvE?

[UNOwen.7132]

Hey remember when you fixed the shout abuse on Bladesworn and made the spec unplayable due to one of the two weapons its forced to pick, Gunsaber, being trash as you openly acknowledged? And remember how you claimed nerfing shouts would allow you to bring more power to Gunsaber? Well, where are those Gunsaber buffs? Its still worthless.

[Brasides.9360]

2 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

What's worse is we've had numerous threads on the forums and reddit talking about this.  If you were going to make changes to weaver this was the obvious top priority.  Very disappointing.

It really makes it feel like they aren't listening. Welp, my sword weaver is going back into the only niche I could find for it: "Play this when you want to get better at other classes".

[Pooh.6897]

to be honest im a bit disappointed with the necro changes. The buffs are nice, but I really wanted to see some changes to dagger. Now greatsword gets solidified even more as the reaper power weapon.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Darth Pooh.5638

[aStarGuardian.4513]

Dont forget stab/stunbreak rework with all that cages, druids, .. and latest fb nerfs

[zealex.9410]

The proposed changes to fb will likely lead to fb not using scepter and camping axe instead as scepter isnt really a condi weapon. You could give scepter some condis to turn it into a hybrid weapon (maybe on scepter 2 or aa even) to make sure it still sees use for firebrand.

 

Please consider this, i dont want to be camping axe.

[Will.9785]

7 minutes ago, zealex.9410 said:

The proposed changes to fb will likely lead to fb not using scepter and camping axe instead as scepter isnt really a condi weapon. You could give scepter some condis to turn it into a hybrid weapon (maybe on scepter 2 or aa even) to make sure it still sees use for firebrand.

 

Please consider this, i dont want to be camping axe.

You will be in axe the entire time.  You will use the justice tome, press 5, and drop it... and camp axe.  At least that's what it looks like right now.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Will.9785

[poop.4183]

55 minutes ago, zakkles.4158 said:

PVE elementalist:

 

❌ staff buffs

❌ sword buffs

❌ core util buffs

❌ conjure rework

❌ summons persist after mounting

❌ pulse alac on overload

 

✔️ scepter 3 heal removed

that resume the whole patch for me ! garbage !

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Please consider making Berserk a Burst skill again, instead of a rage skill, so that there is synergy with berserker's power that doesnt require warrior spending its adrenaline in a core burst or hitting with two primal bursts within 15 seconds to get the maximum value out of it.

The way it is situated now, you will either get no value out of it as a person hit by a T3 burst (or a primal burst 2 times) will be on the defensive looking for ways to disengage, or you will do enough damage to someone hit by those bursts that they will down anyway from facetanking them all, assuming in both cases the person you are fighting is not aware enough to avoid or interrupt them outright. 

Having Berserk act as a T3 burst was integral to the damage output for power berserker. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Bariel.3562]

FB changes aren't thought through, how are we supposed to know a 25s skill in Tome 3 is still on cooldown without jumping in and out of tomes to check? Might work in PVE where you have set rotations but in WvW where you are reacting to current situations in a fight it makes it become a spammy mess. 

The problem isn't with the current class design it's with the lack of other classes ability to provide things like stability and it being such a required boon in WvW, this will do nothing to change the need for a FB in every subgroup and will just make it more un-fun for people to play.

[Sneaky Kevin.3285]

I'll need to play it when it comes out but the guardian rework seems more engaging since I felt anytime I was in a tome I was stuck there and unable to do anything else which sometimes had me stalling in some encounters but being able to freely swap in and out sounds great! not so sure about the page cost but hopefully more tweaks down the road but very open to the idea.

Side note what's with the Deadeye range nerf? I don't play Deadeye in competitive but why is it an issue for PvE?

[ralkeon.6304]

9 hours ago, Double Tap said:

Chaos Vortex: Clones using this skill will now grant the same boons in an area of effect around the mesmer instead of around the clones themselves. Reduced alacrity duration from 2.5 seconds to 1 second. Reduced might stacks from 8 to 2.

so, you should get boons from clones? cause atm it doesn't happen.

and no change on alac tempest application system? 😮 I was expecting this one tbh 🤔

ps. pls, fix the wrong double cast issue on cata hammer 3 too, not only on specter... often you will instantly cast grand finale due to the lack of a small cooldown on the 3rd skill and this f**k up the whole catalyst rotation (that is already "easy" and not "punitive" as all we know XD).

Edited November 12, 2022 by ralkeon.6304

[Gray Fox.9178]

Surely from even a pure taste perspective you can see how Deadeye changes come off as strange, yes?  A sniper that can't snipe.  That gets to move at 25% speed out of a damage circle to make up for 300 range loss?  Is this just some form of saying sniping was a mistake and you want thieves to be collectively shorter range?  In a world of 2k range massive burst longbowman... 

You gotta pick one side of the road.  Uncanny middle wasn't the right play.

From a truly, purely PvE perspective walking out of circles probably sounds fine.  For the opening paragraph to paint this as a pure positive, however... strange indeed.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Gray Fox.9178

[zealex.9410]

2 minutes ago, Will.9785 said:

You will be in axe the entire time.  You will use the justice tome, press 5, and drop it... and camp axe.  At least that's what its look like right now.

Yeah which i dislike heavily, giving condition to scepter would help it compete for use with axe and allow us to use it more.

[zealex.9410]

3 minutes ago, Bariel.3562 said:

FB changes aren't thought through, how are we supposed to know a 25s skill in Tome 3 is still on cooldown without jumping in and out of tomes to check? Might work in PVE where you have set rotations but in WvW where you are reacting to current situations in a fight it makes it become a spammy mess. 

The problem isn't with the current class design it's with the lack of other classes ability to provide things like stability and it being such a required boon in WvW, this will do nothing to change the need for a FB in every subgroup and will just make it more un-fun for people to play.

You will have to go by page regen

[darkxyzdragon.4792]

So you want to bring people to rifle deadeye, and yet you reduced the range on THE SNIPER spec? Makes 0 sense.

 

Also, ele scepter having a support feature removed (water trident's heal) seems like a poor move for a weapon known best for condi and support.

 

Why are we giving Reaper more damage also? 

edit: I said this about Reaper going by my own feelings for it during play, I haven't noticed damage being down on it personally, but I admit possible bias because I do main elementalist, tempest specifically

Edited November 11, 2022 by darkxyzdragon.4792

[Campioneri.7601]

28 minutes ago, Nemmm.9120 said:

As an Engineer enjoyer, the changes to Holo are very much appreciated, but I am not quite certain that they're that big a deal to make Holo that much more competitive. But i will have to wait and see for how they work out. I'd like to say that Holo's main issue, for me at least, has always been its relative squishyness. While the 100% heat changes will help in these regards ... they don't really fix the core problem. But I also realize how well a holo does is a combination of experience and practice, so it might not be quite as bad as the first impression. It could be also be worse, though!

 

I am massively disappointed by Scrapper changes. While it is a fun specc to play (solo and as a commander in PvE), I would have hoped for an increase in quickness buff duration in PvE, to make it so I am not "forced" to use the gyros on cooldown to make sure my Quickness uptime is stable.  Since, you know, the DPS is already sort of meh, and aside from Quickness, Scrapper is a far cry from what it used to be.

 

The changes to Mechanical genius must be a bad joke. There's other, far better ways, to make the public realise how middling mechanist is outside specific circumstances. The main issue here is how easy to use mechanist is. This change will not stop the average player from playing how they used to. And it will, thusly, probably achieve nothing but annoy players that actually care for their engineer. So congrats on that, I suppose.

As a fellow engineer enjoyer, I disagree with a lot of what you say here.

 

Holo actually has quite decent sustain compared to a more "squishy" spec like harbinger, dragonhunter, deadeye, daredevil, or any dps elementalist. Big boomer pulses small consistent heals, you can take turret or AED if you need either more pulsing heals or a save from death, and Heat therapy is going about half the time for a little more. It does struggle more than other classes in solo open world because the class has no built-in toughness and Spectrum Shield is low-impact (also inventions, the protection line, is pretty garbage right now), but in a raiding scenario it's actually pretty good.
 

I wouldn't turn down a buff to the quickness duration on scrapper, but if they decreased it any more qrappers would just take fewer gyros and more damage skills and continue using all gyros off cooldown. Just take more boon duration if you need more stability in uptime, the meta build only takes 34% which gives plenty of room to take more diviner's pieces. You say the dps is "meh" and "far from what it used to be" when as of right now scrapper has a higher bench than it ever has (36k) while still bringing lots of self barrier and group superspeed.

I will say I really miss the 15% damage to barrier conversion in PvE, because since this change scrapper's got terrible sustain in solo situations and does better against open world champs on a condi build than it does on power. This is honestly silly on such a power-focused spec, and I wish it had that barrier buff back (my suggestion would be if you took the top grandmaster that no one uses you get a 200% barrier buff instead of the current 15%; it wouldn't be as good as it was but it would be more balanced).

 

Regarding mechanist, I think this is a good change. If people want to do good damage on engineer, they can go scrapper, holo, or core, all of which do over 35k. If they want to afk while doing their daily strikes, they can play mechanist, and still probably get near top damage in the average PUG. I'd be interested to hear what your other ideas are for changing the public's opinion on the class, but I think specifically nerfing their dps when the player is at range and has abandoned their jade tech pal is a good way of doing it.

 

Cheers!

[Ukon Cairns.9160]

looks good overall.

finally Firebrand gets addressed. Elementalist, Catalyst, Revenant, and Chronomanacer all look like good changes.

only blemish on an otherwise great patch is Deadeye range reduction. I understand if pvp could use the nerf but pve didnt. the other changes are nice and might attract players that havent played much Deadeye to try it out, but then the range being nerfed down to rifle Engineer ranges makes me concerned that players will just pick an easier Engineer build than a Deadeye build. kind of minimizing potential upside of the otherwise good changes. 

[Campioneri.7601]

6 minutes ago, Bariel.3562 said:

FB changes aren't thought through, how are we supposed to know a 25s skill in Tome 3 is still on cooldown without jumping in and out of tomes to check? Might work in PVE where you have set rotations but in WvW where you are reacting to current situations in a fight it makes it become a spammy mess. 

 

Hah, welcome to the engi kit mechanic; you'll likely get used to the cooldown over time and just know. I play a lot of engineer and swapping into kits when the skills I need are up has become almost automatic. It's a skill barrier, but it is learnable.

[Bookah pls.9352]

4 minutes ago, zealex.9410 said:

The proposed changes to fb will likely lead to fb not using scepter and camping axe instead as scepter isnt really a condi weapon. You could give scepter some condis to turn it into a hybrid weapon (maybe on scepter 2 or aa even) to make sure it still sees use for firebrand.

 

Please consider this, i dont want to be camping axe.

Interesting that a certain dev in charge of balance favoured this playstyle

[Firebeard.1746]

I'm slightly concerned about the stealth might stack nerf to Staff/Staff mirage. It's rarely a favorite these days anyway and am worried might uptime will be go away. 


I know you guys mentioned that you wanted to make might less of a boon support thing, but quite frankly, you're not buffing might output from raw DPS classes enough to justify nerfing might stacks right now.