Rev changes November 29th patch

[Hallow.7368]

On 11/13/2022 at 7:37 PM, Warscythes.9307 said:

For Shiro, that is why I said it is fine when you can see the cc coming. For example when sloth is about to sleep. You swap to staff when you see you are hitting 0 and be ready in Shiro or if you are in dwarf, by then time you swap to Shiro and jade winds. The bar is very likely not broken yet so you can just wait for the energy to regen. The dps loss is minimal. Same thing with the other examples I have provided. The big thing about Rev CC is that none of your CC is used in the damage rotation. This means no matter what you will always have your CC available. I would much rather have CC on demand instead of looking at the cooldown. This is the tradeoff and is just fine at it. 

 

If energy is removed, the cooldown will need to be increased quite a bit to compensate and I don't think it is a good idea. The thing about Rev is that as I explained above, when needed your skills will very likely be available when you need it. This is the trade off. I think it is a perfectly fine mechanic and removing it will lead to one of the most crucial thing for Rev to master which is energy management. It would be a big mistake. There are some skills that have energy cost that is too high such as Shiro port and stunbreak. Overall though the mechanic is completely fine. Don't just think about your dps, is not the only thing in the fight. Doing the mechanic is the most important thing in the fight and not having certain skills up when you need it is very often the reason for wiping instead of failing some sort of dps check.

 

 

Bit of a late response on my part mb, but no lol. The fact that you don't use damage is inconsequential. The whole point of the class is that you have an energy mechanic instead of long CDs, but the problem is that revs ability to generate energy is limited. You don't "use" the ability in your damage rotation, but you sure as crap use the energy that you need to cast it in the rotation. GS 2, 3 and 5 use energy.. sword 2 and 4 use energy. Channeling IO and jalis hammers use energy. There is really just no other class (that I can think of immediately, though with that being probably thief since initiative has mostly the same issues as energy) that has the issue of gimping their damage to use cc.  Rev makes the trade off of having energy to have powerful utility with low cool downs, but they're stuck with set utility bars based off their 2 legends choices with both slots being locked in once you enter combat. The fact of the matter is that if I use Jade winds I'm stuck auto attacking for pretty much the rest of the time I'm in shiro. And if I'm in shiro to begin with (which you will be because IO = god tier DPS especially after the buff meaning you want to stay in shiro and channel IO for as long as you can) you never get the option to press Jade winds because you will always be below 50 energy unless you specifically do not cast your damage abilities to conserve energy. And for what? Why tf would I swap into SHIRO for break bar damage? 50 energy for 300 break bar damage is probably the most laughable thing in the game. Guess how much moa signet on Mesmer does? 600 with 0 cost to the Mesmer other than their elite slot which has no other good options anyways. Guess how much forced engagement does? 700 with 1/5th of the energy cost. Guess how much staff does? Up to 1200 depending on hitbox size for the amount of hits you can land with an additional 80 from staff 3 and 60 from staff 2. Renegade shortbow 4 and 5 do 200 each. Oh and ventari elite does 400 while also healing for a large amount and cleansing condis (is also a blast finisher with a light field in the utility kit while costing 15 less energy than jade winds).

Anet could literally make jade winds cost 10-20 energy and at best you might get jade winds included in a rotation so that power rev isn't just "turn on IO/jalis hammers and auto attack while pressing x weapon ability often enough"... Which they actually buffed despite already being the only real playstyle btw so hard doubt that it would even be used then considering how overtuned IO for damage. Revenant is supposed to be about options, but mostly the way it works right now is anything but. The energy costs for a vast majority of core rev utility are blatantly overtuned for what they actually provide.. especially so in shiro. I'm sorry but I will never be able to comprehend how anyone can defend this horrendous ability or how anet could ever believe upping the power coefficient a bit would ever make it worth dumping 50 energy into. The fact that the only way to comfortably use your utility skills without locking yourself out of casting basically any other ability besides your auto chain is to either take a specific trait or be core rev is ridiculous. Traits shouldn't be bandaids that allow your class to be engaging.. the class should be engaging baseline and then traits make you stronger. The crazy part is that rev already has a function baked into the class that allows it to be engaging and could actually make spending such ridiculous amounts of energy worthwhile in ancient echo. Too bad you lose it the second you slot an espec into your traits, lol.

Either way if you want cc you will get more than you could every need by just swapping into jalis instead and using forced engagement and your staff abilities, so if you're using shiro for cc I'm kinda convinced that you are objectively playing the class in an extremely suboptimal manner.

[Warscythes.9307]

19 hours ago, Hallow.7368 said:

Bit of a late response on my part mb, but no lol. The fact that you don't use damage is inconsequential. The whole point of the class is that you have an energy mechanic instead of long CDs, but the problem is that revs ability to generate energy is limited. You don't "use" the ability in your damage rotation, but you sure as crap use the energy that you need to cast it in the rotation. GS 2, 3 and 5 use energy.. sword 2 and 4 use energy. Channeling IO and jalis hammers use energy. There is really just no other class (that I can think of immediately, though with that being probably thief since initiative has mostly the same issues as energy) that has the issue of gimping their damage to use cc.  Rev makes the trade off of having energy to have powerful utility with low cool downs, but they're stuck with set utility bars based off their 2 legends choices with both slots being locked in once you enter combat. The fact of the matter is that if I use Jade winds I'm stuck auto attacking for pretty much the rest of the time I'm in shiro. And if I'm in shiro to begin with (which you will be because IO = god tier DPS especially after the buff meaning you want to stay in shiro and channel IO for as long as you can) you never get the option to press Jade winds because you will always be below 50 energy unless you specifically do not cast your damage abilities to conserve energy. And for what? Why tf would I swap into SHIRO for break bar damage? 50 energy for 300 break bar damage is probably the most laughable thing in the game. Guess how much moa signet on Mesmer does? 600 with 0 cost to the Mesmer other than their elite slot which has no other good options anyways. Guess how much forced engagement does? 700 with 1/5th of the energy cost. Guess how much staff does? Up to 1200 depending on hitbox size for the amount of hits you can land with an additional 80 from staff 3 and 60 from staff 2. Renegade shortbow 4 and 5 do 200 each. Oh and ventari elite does 400 while also healing for a large amount and cleansing condis (is also a blast finisher with a light field in the utility kit while costing 15 less energy than jade winds).

Anet could literally make jade winds cost 10-20 energy and at best you might get jade winds included in a rotation so that power rev isn't just "turn on IO/jalis hammers and auto attack while pressing x weapon ability often enough"... Which they actually buffed despite already being the only real playstyle btw so hard doubt that it would even be used then considering how overtuned IO for damage. Revenant is supposed to be about options, but mostly the way it works right now is anything but. The energy costs for a vast majority of core rev utility are blatantly overtuned for what they actually provide.. especially so in shiro. I'm sorry but I will never be able to comprehend how anyone can defend this horrendous ability or how anet could ever believe upping the power coefficient a bit would ever make it worth dumping 50 energy into. The fact that the only way to comfortably use your utility skills without locking yourself out of casting basically any other ability besides your auto chain is to either take a specific trait or be core rev is ridiculous. Traits shouldn't be bandaids that allow your class to be engaging.. the class should be engaging baseline and then traits make you stronger. The crazy part is that rev already has a function baked into the class that allows it to be engaging and could actually make spending such ridiculous amounts of energy worthwhile in ancient echo. Too bad you lose it the second you slot an espec into your traits, lol.

Either way if you want cc you will get more than you could every need by just swapping into jalis instead and using forced engagement and your staff abilities, so if you're using shiro for cc I'm kinda convinced that you are objectively playing the class in an extremely suboptimal manner.

Mate, that is why you use Shiro LAST before you swap and is an option, not you absolutely have to every single time CC happens. Yes I know upping the power coeff does literally nothing. But why would you not jade wind for CC? When SH is channeling her AoE do you just decide that "welp guess we are just gonna keep doing dps instead of pressing my CC button because it cost too much energy?". No you press that last when you see your group need more CC. I am not even saying jade wind is good at what it does. What I am saying that is an option and it is something you can have up for literally every single instance should you need it. If jade wind has a 20 energy cost, this means you can cast it every 5 seconds.

 

I mean yes let's take a look at Moa. Moa does 600 breakbar damage on a 120 second cooldown. In fights with relatively frequent CC phases such as Sam, you will have this up once maybe every 2 ccs, less if your group push dps which is happening more and more. Yes mesmers have good elites what are you talking about. Do you not take jaunt as a mirage or thousand cuts as virt or something? But are pretty good damage skills, how is that not a big opportunity cost?

 

Again, I am not saying jade wind is a great cc ability or the power coeff did anything to it. I am saying that it is an option that Revs have and that is what generally Rev is about, which is the ability to access the tool when they need it.