Chain CC is crap

[Rovaeden.8546]

Being Chain CC'd sucks.
CC needs to be strategic, not mindless spam.

This holds true in pve as well as other game modes.

 

Players should have a defiance bar of their own, smaller of course than a boss but defiance none the less. Perhaps 3 CCs to break.

Either that or Stunbreaks should give a few moments of CC immunity. Popping a stunbreak only to be immediately stunned again by stun-spamming mobs in PVE is stupid beyond reason.

Fix this ANET. There is no reason for there to be so much CC in the PVE game.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

You have a dodge button and CCs tend to be very telegraphed, low damage (At least in pvp), and, ifn ot telegraphed, short duration.

[Khisanth.2948]

Heh. Wait till you get to PoF. Some brilliant designer thought it was a great idea to add in CC that ignores stability so even if they added your suggestion it would be useless.

As for getting it fixed. I give it a 1/10 chance of it happening. They have never been particular great at designing enemies but rather than getting better and better with each expansion they have gotten worse such as the previously mentioned PoF enemies. The easiest way to deal with them is your own CC then kill them before they can be an annoyance. I think the most comparable experience is a button mashing opponent while playing a fighting game.

[Vavume.8065]

If you are getting chain CC'ed then you may want to look at your utility options a bit closer.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Vavume.8065

[Redfeather.6401]

They could group crowd control skills into ranks and when being hit by a rank you get immunity to that rank and preceding ranks. It would mean combos still exist but they are limited to sequences and cannot be done infinitely. Then you can refresh a sequence in very particular ways, like an elite skill for example. It's all the same logic fighting games like capcom ones use. It's impossible to describe this in words. I don't know why I tried. 🤣

Edited November 21, 2022 by Redfeather.6401

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Redfeather.6401 said:

They could group crowd control skills into ranks and when being hit by a rank you get immunity to that rank and preceding ranks. It would mean combos still exist but they are limited to sequences and cannot be done infinitely. Then you can refresh a sequence in very particular ways, like an elite skill for example. It's all the same logic fighting games like capcom ones use. It's impossible to describe this in words. I don't know why I tried. 🤣

Or people could learn to block, blind, stunbreak, dodge etc instead.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

yeah, why are we the only ones with no defiance bar? We're the kitten Commander, The Dragon Slayer, The God Killer!!! And somehow even trash mobs have one but not us??

Remove stability and give us a defiance bar.  

10 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Wait till you get to PoF

what with that? What's ArenaNet sick obsession with perma-stuns?

Edited November 21, 2022 by Arianth Moonlight.6453

[Astralporing.1957]

8 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Or people could learn to block, blind, stunbreak, dodge etc instead.

This might work in PvP, but in PvE this is often circumvented by cc effects going through stab (and sometimes even through dodge), and, more often, by just overwhelming players with them. I mean, if the player can deal with cc from one mob, just give that mob 10+ adds with their own CCs for added fun.

I mean, good luck blocking, blinding, stunbreaking, dodging and cleansing all cc effects from Drizzlewood's Claw of Jormag, for example.

[Mungrul.9358]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I mean, good luck blocking, blinding, stunbreaking, dodging and cleansing all cc effects from Drizzlewood's Claw of Jormag, for example.

 

That seems like an odd example to choose, AP.

I can't recall that encounter being particularly bad, especially if you keep an eye on the floor. But then, I main a Warrior, a profession whose main form of damage mitigation is still dodging 😜

 

Myself, I'm of the opinion we need to reduce the amount of Stability in the game and equally, boss encounters should stop relying on arbitrary defiance bars that only unlock for short windows during a fight.

 

I'm also against the idea that you should be immune to CC after being controlled for a period of time. That's the way it worked in Age of Conan, and it was terrible.

 

However, I'm also fully aware that if you remove defiance bars from PvE encounters, a lot of them would just become stun-lock fests, and remove all challenge completely.

The trouble is that at the moment, in its current form, control barely counts as a viable playstyle choice (and its always been my favourite).

 

So, how do you make it more meaningful, without completely breaking encounters? I would suggest making more encounters where there are more enemies so that control has to be distributed, or in the case of giant bosses, where certain "limbs" can be disabled, thereby removing an attack, but not completely disabling the boss. Disabling the boss would take coordinated disabling of all limbs.

 

Control in PvP is a lot more sensitive topic, but I never thought that Stability was a good solution.

 

A lot of the early arcade game designers discovered that players wouldn't put up with having control ripped away from them completely, so came up with innovative options such as reversing controls.

 

And I agree that in any game, an attack which results in control being ripped away from the player for an extended period without being heavily telegraphed just feels unfair.

 

The problem is, GW2 does have a lot of control skills that are imperceptibly different from normal attacks.

 

And historically, the devs have over-compensated and heavily nerfed highly-telegraphed control skills in PvP based on the over-reaction from less skilled players (I would argue that Backbreaker is so obvious that it should never be nerfed, and anyone who gets hit by it deserves it).

[Luthan.5236]

CC is totally fine. In PvE for soloing certain champs - you need to time it (often needing more than one skill - though the rifle skill 4 of engineer is nice to almost 1-shot every defiance bar of the core map champs) if you want to CC.

For big groups ... it is sometimes imbalanced. But that is because of the number of player.s They either deplete the bar pretty fast ... or it is too upscaled and pretty hard unless everyone uses CC (waystation mandatory since not everyone includes CC in their build).

In PvP it can be annoying. But you have counters and the CC has cooldowns. This - in  a certain way - is making it necessary to use them tactically. Not spam them ... then having everything on CD. (Same for the stunbreaks.)

Edited November 21, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[disco.9302]

On 11/20/2022 at 3:10 PM, Rovaeden.8546 said:

Being Chain CC'd sucks.
CC needs to be strategic, not mindless spam.

This holds true in pve as well as other game modes.

 

Players should have a defiance bar of their own, smaller of course than a boss but defiance none the less. Perhaps 3 CCs to break.

Either that or Stunbreaks should give a few moments of CC immunity. Popping a stunbreak only to be immediately stunned again by stun-spamming mobs in PVE is stupid beyond reason.

Fix this ANET. There is no reason for there to be so much CC in the PVE game.

are you able to provide an example of where exactly you are getting cc chained? there are very few places that this exists as far as I know

the majority of the issue can be solved by understanding the engagement and remembering some basic attack patterns, effectively experience.

[Nazarick.9653]

On 11/20/2022 at 6:17 PM, Khisanth.2948 said:

Heh. Wait till you get to PoF. Some brilliant designer thought it was a great idea to add in CC that ignores stability so even if they added your suggestion it would be useless.

 

And that's before you get to EoD...he's going to love Echovald's 7-10 mob patrols with endless CC spam. (better bring an OP elite spec to mitigate it)

Every other game has some form of DR for this...why not this one too?

Edited November 21, 2022 by Nazarick.9653

[Khisanth.2948]

26 minutes ago, Nazarick.9653 said:

And that's before you get to EoD...he's going to love Echovald's 7-10 mob patrols with endless CC spam. (better bring an OP elite spec to mitigate it)

Haven't noticed but I've been mostly a passerby in EoD.

27 minutes ago, Nazarick.9653 said:

Every other game has some form of DR for this...why not this one too?

Technically it does have that, there is a 0.75s CD between stacks of stability removal. It just doesn't seem to do much.

[Dr Meta.3158]

Some CC are obvious and slow like light prime light beam. Some CC are quick and are as obscure as a simple auto attack like point blank shot.

[prototypedragon.1406]

Incoming cc.. glances at npc.. gently steps to the right.... Npc missed... Playable character knocks npc into the dirt... 

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, prototypedragon.1406 said:

Incoming cc.. glances at npc.. gently steps to the right.... Npc missed... Playable character knocks npc into the dirt... 

Then the second npc charges you. You dodge, and get pulled by third npc. By the time you stand up, the fourth knocks you back. By that time, the first npc is back up and ready to strike again...

[Sobx.1758]

23 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I mean, good luck blocking, blinding, stunbreaking, dodging and cleansing all cc effects from Drizzlewood's Claw of Jormag, for example.

Wait... what? 😄

[Linken.6345]

On 11/21/2022 at 12:55 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

I mean, good luck blocking, blinding, stunbreaking, dodging and cleansing all cc effects from Drizzlewood's Claw of Jormag, for example.

Well you might have had a point if I had to solo him but you are not alone in that fight and dont have to do it all yourself.

[Astralporing.1957]

8 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well you might have had a point if I had to solo him but you are not alone in that fight and dont have to do it all yourself.

And? Having no control over your character for large parts of such similar encounters is still no fun at all. What's the point of such a mechanic, if the only correct approach to it is not doing it, but overzerging it? All it does is generate annoyance, nothing more.

[Cyninja.2954]

30 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And? Having no control over your character for large parts of such similar encounters is still no fun at all. What's the point of such a mechanic, if the only correct approach to it is not doing it, but overzerging it? All it does is generate annoyance, nothing more.

 

Every player is free to bring stun breaks, condi cleanse, resistance, etc. Some of those skills even affect allies around one. 

 

Thus once enough players decide to bring adequate skills to counter the crowd control, everyone wins. Even better, a few players on hybrid or dedicated support builds can carry the entire encounter.

 

I see no issue here besides players once again refusing to interact with the games skill and build system.🤷‍♂️

Edited November 23, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Shuzuru.3651]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And? Having no control over your character for large parts of such similar encounters is still no fun at all. What's the point of such a mechanic, if the only correct approach to it is not doing it, but overzerging it? All it does is generate annoyance, nothing more.

Wait, there is cc during drizzlewood claw of jormag?

When? 

Do you mean the gust that push? 

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And? Having no control over your character for large parts of such similar encounters is still no fun at all.

If you're not having control over your character for large parts of these encounters then it just means you have some space for improvement.

[yoni.7015]

5 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And? Having no control over your character for large parts of such similar encounters is still no fun at all. 

Then you are doing something wrong. Maybe also use your utility skills and learn to dodge. 

[Sahne.6950]

On 11/20/2022 at 4:10 PM, Rovaeden.8546 said:

Players should have a defiance bar of their own

Stability?!

[Svarty.8019]

On 11/20/2022 at 3:10 PM, Rovaeden.8546 said:

Being Chain CC'd sucks.
CC needs to be strategic, not mindless spam.

This holds true in pve as well as other game modes.

 

Players should have a defiance bar of their own, smaller of course than a boss but defiance none the less. Perhaps 3 CCs to break.

Either that or Stunbreaks should give a few moments of CC immunity. Popping a stunbreak only to be immediately stunned again by stun-spamming mobs in PVE is stupid beyond reason.

Fix this ANET. There is no reason for there to be so much CC in the PVE game.

In hindsight, we should have recognised that the introduction of the Defiance Bar was Arenanet throwing the Competitive Modes under the bus.

 

In one of the EoD dev video we got this gem: "we tried to push breakbars a lot more with this expansion"
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1171101382
56m30s

 

What a mess.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Svarty.8019
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