Since season 1 is finished, anet will soon start releasing season 6 content. What do you want to see?

[Fenom.9457]

On 11/21/2022 at 5:26 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

ArenaNet already confirmed a "Canthan map" is coming next ever since they confirmed LWS1 return. The most common theory for where this map will be is Drowned Kaineng and Raisu Palace, as there are a ton of hints, especially in New Kaineng City, that there is something brewing there, and that Rama will be involved. ArenaNet also confirmed that this map's story will lead into the next expansion somehow. These were brought up in several updates over the year:

Finally, we’re happy to confirm that we’re working on the next story update for Guild Wars 2, including a new map set in the Cantha region. The story (and how we tell it) can go in so many interesting directions now that the Elder Dragon threat is addressed!

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-the-future-of-guild-wars-2/

In our March Studio Update, we confirmed big plans for Guild Wars 2‘s future: the return of Living World Season 1 (which includes a new Strike Mission and challenge mode), new Cantha explorable zone and story content, Steam launch, regular profession updates, and the next expansion.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-june-2022/

A new location and story to experience in Cantha.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/studio-update-guild-wars-2-tenth-anniversary-and-steam-launch-on-august-23/

However, very curiously, ArenaNet never once mentioned the term "Season 6" - or any season at all coming up. And they never implied more than one map. It's always been A new map, A new zone, A new location.

 

So I lowkey believe that ArenaNet is doing away with the concept of living world seasons, hopefully in favor of larger expansions and non-season disconnected storybeat updates, more similar to how disjointed the first half of og LWS1 felt.
This would actually be a good move, imho, because it would allow ArenaNet to spend time to tie up loose threads that never really fit into the grand overarching narrative, like the Foefire, the charr-human peace treaty that got solved without the Commander sometime between HoT and Season 4 apparently, Zojja, Malyck, the centaur plot that was cut from IBS' second half, etc.
In this line, the new map will be Cantha, and the plot will most likely solve the whole Purist and Unchained plothooks left open ended by EoD. We might get two maps about this, as not only is Drowned Kaineng a place of obvious interest, but so is Sunqua Peaks / western Shing Jea, where the final battle with the Ministry of Purity apparently happened. Following that, I theorize that we will return to Central Tyria where we cover Zojja somehow, given Bobby Stein's 👀post that was relatively recent. Then we'll probably get our first teaser to Expansion 4, and a story/map that foreshadows it Forsaken Thicket-for-Season 3-style.

In short, I imagine "season 6" will not only be not called such, but function more like the raid stories or The Lost Shores - independent story beats that serve to conclude minor plot threads and foreshadow the next big thing.

This all sounds wonderful except only getting one map. The only thing worse than that to me would be no maps.  Getting new places and unfogging more of the world is easily the most fun aspect of the game by far and what’s kept me here the most for so many years, and we just got through an entire season re-released with nothing of the sort.

 

The idea that they drop living world the title and conception seems healthy but I’m going to be incredibly sad if we only get one singular map.  I’m fine with a change like instead of six maps we got less but they’re gigantic or something - a hybrid maybe of the icebrood saga approach, older seasons, and a little something new.  But a given map only has so much before the game’s technological limits are reached and I don’t think that will cut it for an entire.. season... saga... era, whatever it’s called now.  I’m very hopeful they’re only saying A map because they just don’t want to get ahead of themselves.

 

I can’t state enough how much I love cantha, I seriously want every last kitten square inch of the continent.  At minimum I’d want us to get four more maps to give us more of each biome we’ve seen already, and if they’re bigger maps or trying new things then I suppose only four could work... I wonder if they’ve improved their tech or are path of fire sized maps still the best they can do?  I hope your speculation is right, if I could only have one shing Jea is my choice and the western side is ripe for exploration.  Thanks for getting my hype for this game back a bit 

[Fenom.9457]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:12 PM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

We did visit the Norn homelands already. Bjora Marches, Drizzlewood Coast, and the western edge of Grothmar, are part of the Norn Homelands.

Yeah, so we visited one rectangle.  It’s kind of like if we only got Seitung Province and then said ‘hey well you guys saw Cantha what more do ya want?’

 

There is more to explore!

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

I don't think Grenth can be confirmed to be still around during the personal story. We only talked to one of the Seven Reapers, and IMO, the closest that instance implies to Grenth still being around is:

The Seventh Reaper: The keeper of this shrine has fallen to Zhaitan. Grenth wishes him returned, but I am too weak to perform the task. Destroy the keeper, and I will answer your questions.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cathedral_of_Silence_(story)

But Zhaitan took the keeper a century ago, so that's a pretty long time period for Grenth to leave.

 

And regarding Glint, she didn't keep what was going to happen after Kralk's death secret - she didn't even know it until after her death. And while she shared her plan with the Forgotten, she didn't know how much was told to the Six:

Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.

Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.

Glint: The Forgotten told me much, but not everything... What did they tell the Six? What do the gods know that I do not?

Glint: So much is unclear, but I'm out of time. I must keep my faith, and hope that my children will carry on my legacy.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories#Dialogue

As to Kormir - we were on the way to prevent the third's death. So as far as she likely knew when she left, things were dire but not in immediate danger - even if she believed the misconception Taimi established of the system collapsing with a third Elder Dragon death. And even if she did believe we might have to go kill Kralkatorrik, she also knew that we had made steps to work towards Glint's legacy - though without Aurene being magically The Only One somehow capable of perfectly filtering the Void without any issue, replacing the Elder Dragons would have under normal circumstances simply extend the doomsday countdown, not remove it entirely.

Additionally, it took 3 years to kill Mordremoth after Zhaitan, and another three years to kill Kralkatorrik. We killed Jormag, Primordus, and Soo-Won in 4 years after Kralkatorrik. Things went rapid pacing after Kralkatorrik.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

17 minutes ago, Fenom.9457 said:

This all sounds wonderful except only getting one map. The only thing worse than that to me would be no maps.  Getting new places and unfogging more of the world is easily the most fun aspect of the game by far and what’s kept me here the most for so many years, and we just got through an entire season re-released with nothing of the sort.

I don't think we'll get only one more map forever or the like, just that they've been refusing to use the terms of season 6 and only talk about "a Canthan map".

We will no doubt get something after it - either another map/story that's unrelated to the Canthan map (in or outside Cantha), or expansion 4 already - which highly doubt it, they take at least 2 years of development and it'd be death for ANet to just have 1 release of new content and another year of waiting with zero content releases.

Or the follow-up release will be related to the Cantha map/story, but it's so spoilery they don't want to say its location and don't want to call it a Living World Season for some reason either.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

6 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

That still feels like blaming homeowners who're out of country on a business trip being unable to show up within the hour when the alarm notification of a break and enter happens in their home.

That's not really something you can blame the homeowners for. And I don't think you can blame the Six for not having a "teleport back to home" button in their inventory when they thought that the destruction of the Elder Dragons meant the world's destruction. I doubt they could predict how it would happen or that it'd happen all of a sudden. Even if they got notified - which is a big if for even if they could be notified - when the Void broke out, I doubt that they who didn't even know of the Elder Dragons' existence when they broke the Bloodstone would know if they could even do anything when it happened.

You're basically making multiple assumptions:

1. That the Six Gods knew of the Void and how it would outbreak.
2. That the Six Gods had a way to tell them of the Void's outbreak.
3. That they could reach Tyria in time.
4. That they believed they could do an immediate evacuation when the Void outbreaks.

The Void was not a thing until Ankka used the extractor on Soo-Won in the reactor, and even then, it was contained and not an actual outbreak until we used the modified extractor on Soo-Won during The Only One.

You're talking about months, but between the end of Act 2 and the end of Act 5, there were at most weeks happening, and during The Only One, there was at most hours.

As for "not waiting until the very last second" - you are again making the assumption that the Six Gods has a place to take people to. The entire point that the Garden of the Gods book makes is that the Six Gods do not have a place to take people, so they simply cannot save people yet. A worst case scenario would be taking entire populations into the Mists, which is an unstable and unhealthy lifestyle - look at what happened to the Aetherblades after 5 years in the Mists, and you suggest to do that to entire civilizations?

Well no.

1. The gods knew of the Elder Dragons' existence.
2. The gods actively collected knowledge on the Elder Dragons in the distant past.
3. The gods knew the Elder Dragons would screw up the world.
4. The gods actively worked with Glint, and the Forgotten, who themselves were actively working against the Elder Dragons.
5. The gods(supposedly) actively sought a new homeworld for humanity, knowing the Elder Dragons would screw up the planet, and that humans needed saving.

This isn't some out the country sudden emergency. This is an issue the gods have known about for literally millennia, and at least two(Grenth and Kormir) were around when the races come together to take the fight to Zhaitan, and at least one(Kormir) was around not only after we had killed Zhaitan and Mordremoth, but also when Kralk was being threatened by Balthazar, and also after the death's of the first two dragons had led to massive magical instability across the planet with giant leyline anomalies and stuff popping up all over the place.

The gods don't need to have known about the Void specifically, or that the Void outbreak happened when it did. Anyone actually considering saving people from the apocalypse doesn't wait until the very last minute to do so, because at that point its too late. They do so when the first signs start showing that its incoming... which at least one of the gods was around for years when they did start showing... and did literally nothing to help anyone.

Your argument only works if you assume the gods have the intellect, and planning skills, of a literal child.

Also, the aetherbaldes were messed up becuase they spent years killing alternate versions of themselves in the fractals of the Mists. Just don't move humans into the fractals/have them kill themselves over and over.

6 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

If the sentences were reversed, I would agree with you. But read it as its presented: Lyssa helped individuals forget the past then lived in Wren while the gods built Arah. You typically describe things in the order it happened in this kind of prose - which is how all the other entries, including Dwayna's, talks about.

This isn't how the English language works, nor has it ever been. You can have later sentences that explained in greater detail earlier bits. thats fairly typical of writing past elementary level.

Also, this ignores that the text is only broken up this way because it wasn't using the newer book UI interface, its using the launch era dialogue boxes which were notoriously limited. Each god's lies should be treated as one singular thought, not two separate things.

6 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Of course, however, we know from the Scriptures of Grenth that 6 happens before 5, so we cannot be absolutely sure that the order of events depicted in the Orrian History Scrolls is actually from top-down chronologically. So it's impossible to truly know if the follow-up sentence is intended as a "this happened then that happened", which would suggest Lyssa made the other gods forget especially in context of Abaddon's entry, or if it can happen in any order. It's equally possible that the order of events is only in regard to the individual gods' entries and not each other - or that Grenth is the oddball because he's the youngest god so only his is out of order.

The order not being in relate to the others doesn't really follow with what we can clearly see.

Balthazar can't cleanse Orr before Dwayna finds it, Melandru can't heal the world until after its been cleansed, Lyssa can't live in Wren among humans until they come to live on the planet after the previous two events happen.

Also, Abbadon, being the keeper of knowedlge, would be the last one keeping the knowledge of what happened before Tyria, which would have happened before the rise of Grenth. Making his placement before Grenth's in chronological order.

6 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

But since you claim that I'm "doing the that thing you love to do all the time where you're intentionally removing, and ignoring, part of the text" - but I'm saying it depends on how you're interpreting it. I'm not saying it is anything in specific, unlike you who denies anything but your own interpretation. As usual, you claim I'm being pertinacious when I am not even insisting on any one particular viewpoint, merely suggesting another.
I see continuing discussion and trying to present alternative possibilities with you remains pointless, since me saying "it can be this, that, or both" to your ears means "it can be this and only this".

If you actually believed this you wouldn't have responded to the comment in the first place. All you prove here is exactly what I've commented on several times in the past. You don't care for honest discussion, or hearing alternate viewpoints, all you care about is trying to strong arm, and bury, anyone, and anything, that disagrees with you while simultaneously trying to make everyone else you doesn't just submit seem unreasonable. You did this all the time back on the old Guru site, to the point of driving off a number of posters who grew tired of the way you acted, and its unfortunately not shocking to see you still at it a decade later.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 hour ago, Fenom.9457 said:

Yeah, so we visited one rectangle.  It’s kind of like if we only got Seitung Province and then said ‘hey well you guys saw Cantha what more do ya want?’

 

There is more to explore!

Bjora Marches, Drizzlewood Coast, and part of Grothmar are not "one rectangle" they are 3.

1. Bjora Marches
2. Drizzlewood Coast
3. Grothmar

So no, its nothing like just getting Seitung and saying "you guys saw Cantha, what more do ya want" since Saitung is one map, while those are three.

This not even getting into how most of the remaining bits of the old Norn homelands are inacessable due to being buried under a million tons of water in that giant lake formed by Jormag's actions up north. And the one signficant settlement remaining that isn't underwater, Gunnar's Hold, was itself totally smashed under a giant glacier by Jormag, and thus doesn't exist anymore.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

And things rapidly degraded after Balthazar died.

The glint/forgotten plan appears to have no included the gods in their plotting, and we know both predate the gods actually coming around with humanity. Given how Forgotten disappeared from human radars for a long time after Abaddon went down...

Kormir makes it clear they weren't going to be willingly face to face with the dragons, and so it's reasonable that they aren't going to be near.

I'm not saying they "didn't know we were killing dragons". But that they didn't know how rapidly the system was destabilizing under our actions for the world.

As Konig mentioned, the system entirely broke for an hour or so, and was restored. Not enough time for them to react and/or save huge chunks of humanity either way.

 

This again ignores that the system was breaking down as far back as LWS3 after the death of Mordremoth, and before Kormir left, as giant ley-line anomalies, and unbound magic, were cropping up all over the place. Not to mention the ley infused bounty monsters also caused the system breaking down in Elona, where Kormir was.

And the gods don't need to be nearby themselves to keep watch, they have agents, minions, and servants, who can do it for them.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

56 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

And regarding Glint, she didn't keep what was going to happen after Kralk's death secret - she didn't even know it until after her death.

Incorrect

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dulann,_Luminate's_Envoy

Quote

Glint's words say little of these days after Kralkatorrik's fall—she could not share all she knew, for fear of affecting the outcome of events. We will keep our faith and believe in Aurene's future.

Glint left behind some knowledge of what would happen after Kralk's fall, but intentionally kept it vague in order to prevent the outcomes from changing.

All you lines show is that she couldn't see her own place after the upcoming battle with Kralk, not that she couldn't see anything.

Again, words have meaning, context matters.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

14 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

If you actually believed this you wouldn't have responded to the comment in the first place. All you prove here is exactly what I've commented on several times in the past. You don't care for honest discussion, or hearing alternate viewpoints, all you care about is trying to strong arm, and bury, anyone, and anything, that disagrees with you while simultaneously trying to make everyone else you doesn't just submit seem unreasonable. You did this all the time back on the old Guru site, to the point of driving off a number of posters who grew tired of the way you acted, and its unfortunately not shocking to see you still at it a decade later.

Yeah, I'm honestly not surprised by this response.
Your argument seems to be that if I actually believed that there were multiple possibilities, I wouldn't respond to someone saying there's only one possibility by me saying there being other interpretations without denying theirs?
This logic makes no sense.

You tell me I'm don't care for honest discussion, but this is what I've been attempting with you and others multiple times.
You tell me that I don't care for hearing alternative viewpoints, but that's exactly what I presented to you - three possible viewpoints as possible, including your own.
You say that all I care is strong arming and burying others, but all I have been doing is saying that I disagree with the presented statement and explain why using sources. I do not say "no you're wrong", I say "I disagree and here's why".

Meanwhile, all you've done is refuse anything I say, and insult me and make claims of my "past behavior". Yet again. And you're not even doing that with me, but everyone else in this thread - Kavalier, Fenom, and Mariyuuna. Your past four responses are sure proof of it. The first words of each: "Well no." "So no, it's nothing just like", "This again ignores", "Incorrect". You're not open to discussion - you're just trying to strong arm me, Kavalier, and Fenom to accepting your interpretation and refuse to accept other interpretations. Yet. Again.

I honestly don't know why I bother with you. I thought a few months break would make you less hostile, I can see that isn't true.

 

Sajuuk, do some self-reflection. Please.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

27 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Your argument seems to be that if I actually believed that there were multiple possibilities, I wouldn't respond to someone saying there's only one possibility by me saying there being other interpretations without denying theirs?
This logic makes no sense.

No, my argument was that if you actually believed what you said about discussing alternate possibilities with me is pointless you wouldn't bother because it would be, as you said pointless. The fact that you did so anyways proves you don't think its pointless, that you're getting something out of it, and that you know you are. Which fundamentally makes your post, and your intent behind it, fake. Its this sort of fundamental dishonesty in your posts that I take issue with. Don't say things, and then clearly go against them in the same breath.

27 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Yet again. And you're not even doing that with me, but everyone else in this thread - Kavalier, Fenom, and Mariyuuna. Your past four responses are sure proof of it. The first words of each: "Well no." "So no, it's nothing just like", "This again ignores", "Incorrect". You're not open to discussion - you're just trying to strong arm me, Kavalier, and Fenom to accepting your interpretation and refuse to accept other interpretations.

That's literally not what any of those phrases mean.

Pointing out that a statement is objectively wrong, like the case of Glint not knowing what happened past her own death, or that three maps =/= 1 map, has nothing to do with interpretations. Nothing they talked about was a subjective opinion or interpretation, it was just an objective fact. Its like saying someone is not open to accepting other people's interpretations when you point out that the sky isn't pink with purple poke-a-dots. There is no interpretation there, only cold, hard, facts.

Facts and interpretations are different things. Pointing out that their statements of things that are facts has nothing to do with my opinion on their subjective interpretations. Like I'm not going to argue that Fenom's concern about possibly only getting 1 Cantha map is wrong, because thats his subjective concern. He cant be wrong about it. You can be wrong about things like the number of maps something feature in, or if Glint did or did not say something.

27 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Sajuuk, do some self-reflection. Please.

Do some yourself.

I'm able to discuss things quite civilly with Kalavier quite nicely and easily because he doesn't do these sorts of things.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Fenom.9457]

59 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Bjora Marches, Drizzlewood Coast, and part of Grothmar are not "one rectangle" they are 3.

1. Bjora Marches
2. Drizzlewood Coast
3. Grothmar

So no, its nothing like just getting Seitung and saying "you guys saw Cantha, what more do ya want" since Saitung is one map, while those are three.

This not even getting into how most of the remaining bits of the old Norn homelands are inacessable due to being buried under a million tons of water in that giant lake formed by Jormag's actions up north. And the one signficant settlement remaining that isn't underwater, Gunnar's Hold, was itself totally smashed under a giant glacier by Jormag, and thus doesn't exist anymore.

 No. Grothmar Valley is Charr lands. Drizzlewood Coast is the Woodland Cascades although it incidentally did happen to have a handful of Norn structures.  That doesn’t count as norn homelands of the Far Shiverpeaks.  So yes, only one rectangle.

 

But let’s say you’re right. Hell let’s say there’s five maps in the region! It doesn’t matter how many - as long as there is space in the area that isn’t mapped the request to have it uncovered is valid.  In this case it’s especially valid as we have in fact only seen a tiny bit of what we KNOW existed in GW1 let alone all new spots like the settlements in Drizzlewood.  My point with the Seitung example was that just cause we’ve seen some of a region, any amount, doesn’t mean people can’t ask for more. We have half a dozen Kryta maps but people can ask for more in that region if they want.

 

The truth is we have vague notions of accessibility but no real knowledge.  Some places might exist still, long abandoned.  Also, even if it’s destroyed... you do realize that people can, like, visit ruins don’t you?  And the underwater part sounds kind of amazing to me.  Sunken Norn settlements underneath a Great Lake is an amazing fantasy environment to explore 

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

2 minutes ago, Fenom.9457 said:

 No. Grothmar Valley is Charr lands. Drizzlewood Coast is the Woodland Cascades although it incidentally did happen to have a handful of Norn structures.  That doesn’t count as norn homelands of the Far Shiverpeaks.  So yes, only one rectangle.

The Norn didn't just live in the Far Shiverpeaks. The Norn structures in Drizzlewood were part of Olafson's territory as far back as Eye of the North, and the temple in northern Drizzlewood was the site of where the Spirits of the Wild first showed themselves to the Norn. Pretty much that whole area was part of their land for ages.

2 minutes ago, Fenom.9457 said:

The truth is we have vague notions of accessibility but no real knowledge.  Some places might exist still, long abandoned.  Also, even if it’s destroyed... you do realize that people can, like, visit ruins don’t you?  And the underwater part sounds kind of amazing to me.  Sunken Norn settlements underneath a Great Lake is an amazing fantasy environment to explore 

Sounds, but given the fan reaction to past underwater content I don't think it would be. Hence why Anet have largely skipped over underwater content since launch. Likely why they've also skipped over many underground environments after the negative reaction to Tangled Depths and Draconis Mons.

2 minutes ago, Fenom.9457 said:

But let’s say you’re right. Hell let’s say there’s five maps in the region! It doesn’t matter how many - as long as there is space in the area that isn’t mapped the request to have it uncovered is valid.  In this case it’s especially valid as we have in fact only seen a tiny bit of what we KNOW existed in GW1 let alone all new spots like the settlements in Drizzlewood.  My point with the Seitung example was that just cause we’ve seen some of a region, any amount, doesn’t mean people can’t ask for more. We have half a dozen Kryta maps but people can ask for more in that region if they want.

While the desire to see the entire game map uncovered is understandable I don't think it will happen.Anet very clearly doesn't care about filling in the whole map, leaving odd spaces between many core/LW/expansion maps for whatever reasons or another.

I think time is a big issue. While its become a bit more common in the last few years, its still relatively rare for an MMO to make it to 10 years of active content development. Not 10 years with the servers up, or 10 years of one guy working in his basement to make small bug fix patches, but 10 years of yearly expansions, or the GW2 model or seasonal releases + expansions.

Getting to 15 is even rarer. There's like maybe 8 MMOs I can think of that have gotten to 15+ years of active content development(EQ 1, EQ2, WoW, EVE, LOTRO, Runescape, like 1-2 eastern MMOs) Taking into account LWS6, or w/e Anet ends up calling it, expanding on Cantha, whatever Xpack 4 is about(likely the God plot IMO), a LWS4/LWS6 style expansion on that region like Elona got for Xpack 4, and either a LWS8, or an Xpack 5, to round up the remaining loose plots like the Centaurs, Inquest, Malyck, Foefire, Wizard's tower, etc, thats bordering on the 15 year mark.

That would round up all the remaining loose ends of the various plots, but still leave places like Dzalana, the Scavenger's Causeway, the majority of the Magumma Wastes and Charr Homelands, all the rest of Elona and Cantha, etc unexplored.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

7 hours ago, Fenom.9457 said:

Yeah, so we visited one rectangle.  It’s kind of like if we only got Seitung Province and then said ‘hey well you guys saw Cantha what more do ya want?’

 

There is more to explore!

I tried explaining that, don't bother.

[Kalavier.1097]

7 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I don't think Grenth can be confirmed to be still around during the personal story. We only talked to one of the Seven Reapers, and IMO, the closest that instance implies to Grenth still being around is:

The Seventh Reaper: The keeper of this shrine has fallen to Zhaitan. Grenth wishes him returned, but I am too weak to perform the task. Destroy the keeper, and I will answer your questions.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cathedral_of_Silence_(story)

But Zhaitan took the keeper a century ago, so that's a pretty long time period for Grenth to leave.

As to Kormir - we were on the way to prevent the third's death. So as far as she likely knew when she left, things were dire but not in immediate danger - even if she believed the misconception Taimi established of the system collapsing with a third Elder Dragon death. And even if she did believe we might have to go kill Kralkatorrik, she also knew that we had made steps to work towards Glint's legacy - though without Aurene being magically The Only One somehow capable of perfectly filtering the Void without any issue, replacing the Elder Dragons would have under normal circumstances simply extend the doomsday countdown, not remove it entirely.

Additionally, it took 3 years to kill Mordremoth after Zhaitan, and another three years to kill Kralkatorrik. We killed Jormag, Primordus, and Soo-Won in 4 years after Kralkatorrik. Things went rapid pacing after Kralkatorrik.

I will point out there is the ghost in Queensdale who mentions that she asked Grenth to be allowed to stay on Tyria to watch over her family's farm and her family while they are still there, and he granted it.

 

And the last part is very true. We were working to stop more damage to the system as she left, and maybe she knew about Aurene's role in fixing the dragon system, maybe she didn't. We didn't at that point of time at least (or all the details).

6 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

This again ignores that the system was breaking down as far back as LWS3 after the death of Mordremoth, and before Kormir left, as giant ley-line anomalies, and unbound magic, were cropping up all over the place. Not to mention the ley infused bounty monsters also caused the system breaking down in Elona, where Kormir was.

And the gods don't need to be nearby themselves to keep watch, they have agents, minions, and servants, who can do it for them.

And we could assume Kormir has travel time to meet up with the other gods, and then they'd have travel time back perhaps. Or if they hadn't found a suitable world yet to transplant humanity too and didn't want to yank them out with nowhere to go..

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

6 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

And we could assume Kormir has travel time to meet up with the other gods, and then they'd have travel time back perhaps. Or if they hadn't found a suitable world yet to transplant humanity too and didn't want to yank them out with nowhere to go..

The problem with this is that EoD's own narrative flatly disproves the notion the gods had nowhere to take humanity, even if they hadn't found a new world for them to live on.

The Aetherblades spent years in the Mists and were physically fine afterwards. Ankka only went crazy due to spending years killing copies of herself, and the other Aetherblades, in the fractals time loops/variants. So long as the gods didn't force humans to do that they could have kept humanity in the Mists for years with no issues as far as everything in the game has shown us.

Between the gods

• Having long had foreknowledge of the dragons
• Studying the dragons themselves
• Working with the people(Glint/Forgotten) who also knew of the dragons, and were actively trying to end them, and break the cycle
• Still being around when the planet started to break down after two dragons had died, and a third one was in danger of being killed
• Not making any attempt to begin the rapturing when it was clear the world was starting to break down due to the first two dragon's deaths
• Having a place they could've taken humanity regardless of if they found another world or not.
• Not telling anyone they supposedly had a plan to save humanity, except one random priest guy in the middle of nowhere because... reasons?
• Actively telling humans both in Nightfall, and in Path of Fire, that they aren't going to help with jack squat, and that humans already had everything they need to succeed.

Occam's razor would suggest that the gods never actually had a plan to save humanity on Tyira and bring them elsewhere. Likely due to foreknowledge that the mortals of Tyria could do what the gods couldn't, and defeat the Elder Dragons in such a way that didn't end the world.

The only proof for the idea they had such a plan is a singular book written by a guy who claims, but provides no evidence for, that he got a vision from Kormir... the very same god we meet face to face in PoF and who neither states, or even suggests, she, or any of the other gods, had any plan to do anything of the sort, and instead actively tell us "lulz do it yourself!"

Edited November 30, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Kalavier.1097]

6 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

The problem with this is that EoD's own narrative flatly disproves the notion the gods had nowhere to take humanity, even if they hadn't found a new world for them to live on.

The Aetherblades spent years in the Mists and were physically fine afterwards. Ankka only went crazy due to spending years killing copies of herself, and the other Aetherblades, in the fractals time loops/variants. So long as the gods didn't force humans to do that they could have kept humanity in the Mists for years with no issues as far as everything in the game has shown us.

Completely missing the facet of the Aetherblades were on a fleet of mist-portal equipped airships (or kept in tight enough formation the few that had them could portal the other ships) and even those were rapidly falling apart and supplies constantly running low, hence the raiding of the fractals. Over. and. over.

The gods could tranverse the mists by themselves sure, but what about humanity? What about entire populations? Are they just gonna shove the entire population of Divinity's Reach in their back pocket? How will they feed them?

Exploring this hypothetical, maybe the gods are taking so long because they decided that this time they'll fully explore the world they are looking at to make sure there are no elder dragons or other threats like that lurking out of sight.

6 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

• Having long had foreknowledge of the dragons
• Studying the dragons themselves
• Working with the people(Glint/Forgotten) who also knew of the dragons, and were actively trying to end them, and break the cycle
• Still being around when the planet started to break down after two dragons had died, and a third one was in danger of being killed

 

People seem to forget how secretive the Forgotten were. Even when we were hanging out with the Exalted, we had no idea how Aurene would be used in the plan, or that she could absorb the massive spikes of energy and use that to rapidly grow. That's part of the reason why we shifted ideas after she suddenly took in a chunk of Balthazar's power and evolved.

Also again, only Kormir was around during that final period, and we can assume she can't just instantly catch up to the other gods.

6 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

• Not making any attempt to begin the rapturing when it was clear the world was starting to break down due to the first two dragon's deaths
• Having a place they could've taken humanity regardless of if they found another world or not.
• Not telling anyone they supposedly had a plan to save humanity, except one random priest guy in the middle of nowhere because... reasons?
• Actively telling humans both in Nightfall, and in Path of Fire, that they aren't going to help with jack squat, and that humans already had everything they need to succeed.

Occam's razor would suggest that the gods never actually had a plan to save humanity on Tyira and bring them elsewhere. Likely due to foreknowledge that the mortals of Tyria could do what the gods couldn't, and defeat the Elder Dragons in such a way that didn't end the world.

The only proof for the idea they had such a plan is a singular book written by a guy who claims, but provides no evidence for, that he got a vision from Kormir... the very same god we meet face to face in PoF and who neither states, or even suggests, she, or any of the other gods, had any plan to do anything of the sort, and instead actively tell us "lulz do it yourself!"

First part. Again, while the system was starting to break down, it wasn't about to completely shatter at any short moment, especially since everybody went "Okay... no more dragon deaths". Plus Kormir would've been able to see that the Pact was gutted and thus not in any shape to even TRY to kill another elder dragon at that point. Stop Balthazar from killing Kralk, and things would be dangerous but still going.

Relocating humanity, even most of it would probably be a major undertaking, one I doubt the gods would want to do without knowing "This is the spot." they didn't take their realms with them, they appear to have no taken their avatars or minions either.

Also, the biggest factor. Telling humanity "Hey we are going to find you a new planet cause this one is going to hell with elder dragons waking up" would do one thing the gods have shown increasing aversion to since Doric pleaded with them to stop the wars and magical conflicts. Hold humanity's hand and solve every problem.

Telling humanity that they WILL be taken to a new, glorious world safely would basically rob humanity of any reason to bother to care about Tyria. "We'll be saved, just you see." And thus refuse to fight the dragons or attempt to figure out solutions to the problems. Why bother, we'll get a new world soon enough right. Humanity has had it's problems, and each time proven to the gods that they can rise up to the challenge and win, even if they suffer losses along the way. A promise of guaranteed salvation means  struggle is pointless, just sit inside the walls and ignore the world burning around you.

 

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

12 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I will point out there is the ghost in Queensdale who mentions that she asked Grenth to be allowed to stay on Tyria to watch over her family's farm and her family while they are still there, and he granted it.

Assuming that she talked to Grenth directly, and not one of his servants like The Judge. Faithful humans seem to treat the words of the avatars as the words of the gods, like Kormir and the PC did during Nightfall and meeting Lyssa's Muse.

Lyssa's Muse: "This is your world, now. This is your decision. You must make the choice that only a mortal could make."

Kormir: "Our decision? They leave us some words of encouragement and expect us to fight a god?"

<Party leader>: "The gods said we have a choice. A choice that only a mortal could make."

Kormir: "Yes. Yes, there is a choice. We can end this. We don't have to be driven by gods and their avatars. Let us go."

So it's hard to take a random ghost at face value for directly meeting a god when dialogue implies the gods left quite some time ago.

18 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

No, my argument was that if you actually believed what you said about discussing alternate possibilities with me is pointless you wouldn't bother because it would be, as you said pointless. The fact that you did so anyways proves you don't think its pointless, that you're getting something out of it, and that you know you are.

You're right, in my first post where I presented the alternative viewpoints, I didn't think it was pointless.
It was when you responded that I did. And since that was at the end of the reply, and I already typed up what was before, I didn't bother deleting because I hate wasting effort already done. But I am done with this now, enjoy yourself.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

14 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Completely missing the facet of the Aetherblades were on a fleet of mist-portal equipped airships (or kept in tight enough formation the few that had them could portal the other ships) and even those were rapidly falling apart and supplies constantly running low, hence the raiding of the fractals. Over. and. over.

Additionally, the Aetherblades did not come out unscathed beyond Ankka. Even ignoring the Haunted Aetherblades, the Aetherblades in Cantha have a misty effect similar to that seen on the Mist Stranger. This is from merely spending 5 years in the Mists on airships. It's a hard effect to notice, but it got brought up in this blog post on EoD Aetherblades. Mentality aside, I don't think that's exactly coming out fine.

We tried to reflect that experience in everything about them upon their return. We created new airship models that looked like the Aetherblades grafted parts onto ships they found—because they did. We added new units to their armies: scrappers, cobbling together whatever they could; revenants, channeling the echoes of their fallen comrades. And we added a real subtle Mist effect to all of them…a touch of the Mist Stranger look, if you will. Some additional aether for our Aetherblades.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Completely missing the facet of the Aetherblades were on a fleet of mist-portal equipped airships (or kept in tight enough formation the few that had them could portal the other ships) and even those were rapidly falling apart and supplies constantly running low, hence the raiding of the fractals. Over. and. over.

The gods could tranverse the mists by themselves sure, but what about humanity? What about entire populations? Are they just gonna shove the entire population of Divinity's Reach in their back pocket? How will they feed them?

Exploring this hypothetical, maybe the gods are taking so long because they decided that this time they'll fully explore the world they are looking at to make sure there are no elder dragons or other threats like that lurking out of sight.

There's nothing to miss there. The Aetherblade ships were falling apart because any machine will fall apart, even in real life, after years of constant use without regular maintenance. That has jack all to do with the Mists. And we know theres plenty of solid ground in the Mists from all the god realms, and other Mist realms we've seen. So its not like you NEED to fly around them either.

Ditto with supplies. The Aetherblades were constantly running out of supplies because they went into the Mists without much planning or stockpiling. If the Gods actually had any desire to save humanity from a known impending global apocalypse they would've done basic stockpiling of resources long before GW2's narrative began.

Your entire argument is that basic disaster preparation used all the time in the real world not only doesn't exist, but is impossible to do, or for the gods to figure out.

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

People seem to forget how secretive the Forgotten were. Even when we were hanging out with the Exalted, we had no idea how Aurene would be used in the plan, or that she could absorb the massive spikes of energy and use that to rapidly grow. That's part of the reason why we shifted ideas after she suddenly took in a chunk of Balthazar's power and evolved.

Also again, only Kormir was around during that final period, and we can assume she can't just instantly catch up to the other gods.

This really has no bearing on anything.

The player's personal lack of knowledge on what the plan has nothing to do with the Forgotten telling the gods that there was a plan at all. This isn't an all or nothing game, it isn't they have to spill the beans on everything, or nothing at all, that isn't how conversation works. This is also something of a straw man because the Gods didn't work with just the Forgotten, but Glint also. Even if the Forgotten didn't tell them anything, Glint could've.

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

First part. Again, while the system was starting to break down, it wasn't about to completely shatter at any short moment, especially since everybody went "Okay... no more dragon deaths". Plus Kormir would've been able to see that the Pact was gutted and thus not in any shape to even TRY to kill another elder dragon at that point. Stop Balthazar from killing Kralk, and things would be dangerous but still going.

Relocating humanity, even most of it would probably be a major undertaking, one I doubt the gods would want to do without knowing "This is the spot." they didn't take their realms with them, they appear to have no taken their avatars or minions either.

Also, the biggest factor. Telling humanity "Hey we are going to find you a new planet cause this one is going to hell with elder dragons waking up" would do one thing the gods have shown increasing aversion to since Doric pleaded with them to stop the wars and magical conflicts. Hold humanity's hand and solve every problem.

Telling humanity that they WILL be taken to a new, glorious world safely would basically rob humanity of any reason to bother to care about Tyria. "We'll be saved, just you see." And thus refuse to fight the dragons or attempt to figure out solutions to the problems. Why bother, we'll get a new world soon enough right. Humanity has had it's problems, and each time proven to the gods that they can rise up to the challenge and win, even if they suffer losses along the way. A promise of guaranteed salvation means  struggle is pointless, just sit inside the walls and ignore the world burning around you.

Anyone planning for a disaster doesn't wait until things start to get hairy, they evac before even the first "wave" of issues hit. That's just SOP for these sorts of situations in real life. They should've started evacing humans before we got to even killing one of them if they actually destined to do so.

Also, the Pact wasn't gutted. They lost most of their airship fleet in HoT, but HoT also shows and states that the vast majority of the Pact's forces survived the crash. The only major loss was material, hence why the Pact was able to quickly rebuild those material loses and show up in force for Dragonfall, Dragonstorm, and Dragon's End.

You're argument for the gods telling humanity about said plan doesn't really hold water for a number of reasons

1. The God's wanted humans to deal with situations within their control, planetary annihilation and relocation is not within their control.
2. If the Gods actually believed in non-interference to such an extent as you propose, then they wouldn't be supposedly looking for a new world for humans in the first place.
3. The Gods could very easily have just gone "We're using the Elder Dragons to test you to see if you're worthy of saving, you have to fight them or else we won't help you" even if that whole line was a lie and they planned on doing it anyways. God(s) putting people through tests to prove they're worthy of salvation isn't exactly a new concept. *looks at Bible*

2 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

You're right, in my first post where I presented the alternative viewpoints, I didn't think it was pointless.

It was when you responded that I did. And since that was at the end of the reply, and I already typed up what was before, I didn't bother deleting because I hate wasting effort already done. But I am done with this now, enjoy yourself.

You've made this claim like 4-5 times across the last several years, so its obviously untrue every other time you made it, so the honestly level here doesn't seem particularly high either.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Zola.6197]

Would be great to see more far flung pockets of asura, norn, and charr across the planet, or deserted homelands filled with ruins and lore abandoned after the elder dragons rose. Lots to explore there!

 

People walked to all corners of our planet in prehistory to populate the globe, or even traveled in early boats. No reason Tyria’s native races couldn’t have spread all over too, especially with the supercontinent being so massive. 

[The Greyhawk.9107]

4 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

Would be great to see more far flung pockets of asura, norn, and charr across the planet, or deserted homelands filled with ruins and lore abandoned after the elder dragons rose. Lots to explore there!

 

People walked to all corners of our planet in prehistory to populate the globe, or even traveled in early boats. No reason Tyria’s native races couldn’t have spread all over too, especially with the supercontinent being so massive. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm sure there's some reason that can be conjured up for why this isn't allowable. ಠ_ಠ

[Kalavier.1097]

14 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Additionally, the Aetherblades did not come out unscathed beyond Ankka. Even ignoring the Haunted Aetherblades, the Aetherblades in Cantha have a misty effect similar to that seen on the Mist Stranger. This is from merely spending 5 years in the Mists on airships. It's a hard effect to notice, but it got brought up in this blog post on EoD Aetherblades. Mentality aside, I don't think that's exactly coming out fine.

We tried to reflect that experience in everything about them upon their return. We created new airship models that looked like the Aetherblades grafted parts onto ships they found—because they did. We added new units to their armies: scrappers, cobbling together whatever they could; revenants, channeling the echoes of their fallen comrades. And we added a real subtle Mist effect to all of them…a touch of the Mist Stranger look, if you will. Some additional aether for our Aetherblades.

They also explicitly tweaked a number of their outfits to go from very fancy/elegant looking steampunk style to more rugged looking.

12 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

There's nothing to miss there. The Aetherblade ships were falling apart because any machine will fall apart, even in real life, after years of constant use without regular maintenance. That has jack all to do with the Mists. And we know theres plenty of solid ground in the Mists from all the god realms, and other Mist realms we've seen. So its not like you NEED to fly around them either.

Ditto with supplies. The Aetherblades were constantly running out of supplies because they went into the Mists without much planning or stockpiling. If the Gods actually had any desire to save humanity from a known impending global apocalypse they would've done basic stockpiling of resources long before GW2's narrative began.

Your entire argument is that basic disaster preparation used all the time in the real world not only doesn't exist, but is impossible to do, or for the gods to figure out.

 

Besides the fact my argument is not at all that, but literally pointing out that the gods can tranverse the mists by themselves without issue. Saying they can literally just snap their figures and kittening yoink all of humanity into the mists for an unknown period of time without any problems is... crazy.

And as Konig pointed out, the Aetherblades lived in the mists for 5 years at least solid without ever leaving it and they were changed. From the increased number of Revenants in their ranks to mist effects and other stuff.

Based on what we know of the human's travel to Tyria, it sounds much more like the Gods came to Tyria, then opened a portal and everybody walked through it from the old world to the new. They didn't load everybody onto a bus and drive across the country. Also, stockpiling supplies for... entire NATIONS to live in the mists for unknown period of time? That's a lot of resources, and a lot of space. We aren't saying pluck up the town of Ascalon Settlement, we are saying grabbing nations.

 

12 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

This really has no bearing on anything.

The player's personal lack of knowledge on what the plan has nothing to do with the Forgotten telling the gods that there was a plan at all. This isn't an all or nothing game, it isn't they have to spill the beans on everything, or nothing at all, that isn't how conversation works. This is also something of a straw man because the Gods didn't work with just the Forgotten, but Glint also. Even if the Forgotten didn't tell them anything, Glint could've.

 

And this entirely assumes the Forgotten or Glint ever told the gods this information, or that they did and the gods shrugged it off.

Maybe, just maybe, they didn't share all the details of the plan about dragons that eat magic to the beings literally made of pure magic and would just be a giant snack and empower the dragons further? Or they did, and you know what, the gods decided that things were going okay and we don't have to panic and flee the world.

And the great thing is this is ALL HYPOTHETICAL. You know, because the Forgotten famously didn't leave much information around to the point their RACES NAME IS GONE. Literally the race who is called the Forgotten because NOBODY, not even Glint, Not even the gods comment on their name.

 

12 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Anyone planning for a disaster doesn't wait until things start to get hairy, they evac before even the first "wave" of issues hit. That's just SOP for these sorts of situations in real life. They should've started evacing humans before we got to even killing one of them if they actually destined to do so.

 

Also, the Pact wasn't gutted. They lost most of their airship fleet in HoT, but HoT also shows and states that the vast majority of the Pact's forces survived the crash. The only major loss was material, hence why the Pact was able to quickly rebuild those material loses and show up in force for Dragonfall, Dragonstorm, and Dragon's End.

 

Heart of thorns also has massive memorial walls all over the various maps listing massive losses. The Pact survived yes, but it's military power was indeed gutted. You know, that's why they basically take a backseat and don't appear really until years later, because they had to rebuild.

"quickly rebuild" is a funny way of describing 4 years of doing nothing but rebuilding and training/recruiting. And even then they aren't the primary force, but merely an element at Dragonfall. Dragonstorm they have more presence, but again, as an element among other forces. Dragon's end has them bring out the airship fleet, but that's also because that's how they got there in the first place.

So yes, after HoT by the time of Kormir leaving the Pact wasn't in a place to actually wage a campaign and kill an elder dragon, plus the knowledge of killing them is bad, means whenever she did catch up would mean she left the world in risky, but not dead place.

 

12 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

You're argument for the gods telling humanity about said plan doesn't really hold water for a number of reasons

1. The God's wanted humans to deal with situations within their control, planetary annihilation and relocation is not within their control.
2. If the Gods actually believed in non-interference to such an extent as you propose, then they wouldn't be supposedly looking for a new world for humans in the first place.
3. The Gods could very easily have just gone "We're using the Elder Dragons to test you to see if you're worthy of saving, you have to fight them or else we won't help you" even if that whole line was a lie and they planned on doing it anyways. God(s) putting people through tests to prove they're worthy of salvation isn't exactly a new concept. *looks at Bible*

 

1: The gods also viewed dealing with Abaddon as "Situation within their control."

2: The gods care about humanity, they just aren't solving any and every issue.

3: Ah yes, so the gods should just go "Listen here's an ancient being that devours magic, and unless you fight them we won't save you. But we also won't do anything to help you but instead will go off and have a party."

 

Listen, this is all basically hypothetical anyway.  Especially since you are treating any evac plan as the gods being able to instantly teleport back and forth from the mists and yoink entire populations without issue. And stockpile supplies to feed nations without anybody noticing (if taken from tyria).

I'm reminded of a line recently from star trek online, where a super-powerful entity of the mirror universe is invading. It's prime universe counterpart can fight it on equal grounds, but is literally galaxies away because it's been wandering and exploring. "I've asked it to return, but it WILL TAKE TIME."

And as pointed out, the big collapse of the system was done and over within hours. So this discussion is just pointlessly going in circles.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

4 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Besides the fact my argument is not at all that, but literally pointing out that the gods can tranverse the mists by themselves without issue. Saying they can literally just snap their figures and kittening yoink all of humanity into the mists for an unknown period of time without any problems is... crazy.

No one said this, in fact, my argument repeatedly has been they would've started evacuating people long before we got to EoD, so they wouldn't need to just yonk all of humanity into the mists in an instant. Please don't resort to petty strawmans.

4 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Based on what we know of the human's travel to Tyria, it sounds much more like the Gods came to Tyria, then opened a portal and everybody walked through it from the old world to the new. They didn't load everybody onto a bus and drive across the country. Also, stockpiling supplies for... entire NATIONS to live in the mists for unknown period of time? That's a lot of resources, and a lot of space. We aren't saying pluck up the town of Ascalon Settlement, we are saying grabbing nations.

Again, no one said entire nations would be saved. Just like its unlikely the gods saved all humans from their old homeworld, I never argued they would save every last human, or even most of them. In these sorts of situations saving everyone is an impossibility. You just need to save enough to keep the gene pool from tanking out at a minimum. And even that isn't that much.

4 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

And this entirely assumes the Forgotten or Glint ever told the gods this information, or that they did and the gods shrugged it off.

Maybe, just maybe, they didn't share all the details of the plan about dragons that eat magic to the beings literally made of pure magic and would just be a giant snack and empower the dragons further? Or they did, and you know what, the gods decided that things were going okay and we don't have to panic and flee the world.

And the great thing is this is ALL HYPOTHETICAL. You know, because the Forgotten famously didn't leave much information around to the point their RACES NAME IS GONE. Literally the race who is called the Forgotten because NOBODY, not even Glint, Not even the gods comment on their name.

I've stated multiple times the Forgotten need not have told the Gods the entirety of their plans,, or even most of it. And again, THE FORGOTTEN DIDN'T MAKE THE PLAN GLINT DID! Why are you  removing Glint out of the picture to try to focus entirely on the Forgotten who aren't the originators of the plan in the first place?

4 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Heart of thorns also has massive memorial walls all over the various maps listing massive losses. The Pact survived yes, but it's military power was indeed gutted. You know, that's why they basically take a backseat and don't appear really until years later, because they had to rebuild.

"quickly rebuild" is a funny way of describing 4 years of doing nothing but rebuilding and training/recruiting. And even then they aren't the primary force, but merely an element at Dragonfall. Dragonstorm they have more presence, but again, as an element among other forces. Dragon's end has them bring out the airship fleet, but that's also because that's how they got there in the first place.

So yes, after HoT by the time of Kormir leaving the Pact wasn't in a place to actually wage a campaign and kill an elder dragon, plus the knowledge of killing them is bad, means whenever she did catch up would mean she left the world in risky, but not dead place.

Well no

1. The walls had a new dozen names on them each.
2. NPCs in HoT repeatedly mention most of the Pact's forces survived the crash.
3. The Pact didn't appear in LWS3, PoF, and most of LWS4, and EoD because those weren't Pact issues in the first place.
4. Those regions were also really far away from the Pact's core territory(Tyria) and thus they couldn't mobilize much of their forces there easily even with airships.

In case you forgot the Pact exists to combat the Elder Dragons, and they tend to stay out of non-Elder Dragon affairs. Lazarus, the White Mantle, Balthazar, Joko, and the Aetherblades, aren't the Elder Dragons, and thus aren't the Pacts problem. Which is why they weren't there. And it takes time to fly hundreds, thousands? of miles from Tyria to Cantha to show up for the Dragon's End fight.

4 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Listen, this is all basically hypothetical anyway.  Especially since you are treating any evac plan as the gods being able to instantly teleport back and forth from the mists and yoink entire populations without issue. And stockpile supplies to feed nations without anybody noticing (if taken from tyria).

And as pointed out, the big collapse of the system was done and over within hours. So this discussion is just pointlessly going in circles.

17 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Anyone planning for a disaster doesn't wait until things start to get hairy, they evac before even the first "wave" of issues hit. That's just SOP for these sorts of situations in real life. They should've started evacing humans before we got to even killing one of them if they actually destined to do so.

The conversation has never been about just the few hours the void was going crazy in EoD, and I've stated as such multiple times.

4 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I'm reminded of a line recently from star trek online, where a super-powerful entity of the mirror universe is invading. It's prime universe counterpart can fight it on equal grounds, but is literally galaxies away because it's been wandering and exploring. "I've asked it to return, but it WILL TAKE TIME."

Funny, I was going to mention Star Trek Online as well in reference to your comments about the Pact.

In STO, during the Delta Rising campaign, the Khitomer Alliance plays little part in the overall events outside of sending a handful of ships to the Delta Quadrant to assist the native Delta quadrant races in fighting the Vaadwaur. The reason? Because even with instant teleportation Iconian Gateways going through the Dyson Spheres to the Delta Quadrant there is too much of a resource/manpower bottleneck to just do everything themselves. They need to rely on local allies for most of the heavy lifting in the campaign, which is why they put so much effort into recruiting like a dozen Delta Quadrant races into the Delta Alliance.

The same is true for the Pact. Even at full power the Pact has no reasonable means to project its power over such the distances as Elona and Cantha are from Tyria, and need to rely mostly on local forces in those regions to do most of the heavy lifting regardless of its own power back in Tyira. This has nothing to do with a weakness, or lack of manpower, on the part of the Pact, but simple logistics.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

12 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

Would be great to see more far flung pockets of asura, norn, and charr across the planet, or deserted homelands filled with ruins and lore abandoned after the elder dragons rose. Lots to explore there!

 

People walked to all corners of our planet in prehistory to populate the globe, or even traveled in early boats. No reason Tyria’s native races couldn’t have spread all over too, especially with the supercontinent being so massive. 

8 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm sure there's some reason that can be conjured up for why this isn't allowable. ಠ_ಠ

There sure are, ranging from logistical issues, to common historical misconceptions about early boat travel. The real world civilizations that managed to get very far with boats only did so because they had a very strong naval culture, and were, for their time, incredibly advanced in the art of sailing(see the Norse). The majority of ancient cultures didn't get very far with boats because they lacked the ship building skill, and knowledge, to do so. The Asura, Charr, and Norn, haven't demonstrated such a level of naval skill. Likely owing to the fact they don't(or at least not originally for the Asura) live near the oceans in the first place, and thus don't/didn't need them.

That's actually something of an oddity in Guild Wars' setting. Outside of humanity, and the Kodan, there don't seem to be many land based races with naval traditions among them. Besides like a one off mention of the Forgotten having boats. Though I suppose that is just Anet avoiding having to deal with the issue of "well if there was, why haven't they run into the Tyrian races yet?" and having to establish lore for far off places long beforehand.

That being said... we know the Asura, thanks to their gateways, were spread as far north as the Far Shiverpeaks to as far south as Cantha, and the Charr's empire dominates an absolutely massive portion of the central/western-central, Tyrian super-continent landmass.

That's actually one thing that really intrigues me about the Charr. Based on the old world map from LWS2, and assuming the Ash and Blood Legions have roughly similarly sized territories as Iron, that would put the eastern end of the Charr's Empire right smack dab at the midway point of the Tyrian super-continent. Humans have been as far north as Janthir, and as far west as the western coast of the Maguuma. but only the Charr have been so far east.

I do wonder why we haven't heard much of anything about Charr conquests to the east, and why they seem so focused westward, even pre-dragon rising. Is the land out east unsuitable? Was it the thrill of the fight against the Forgotten and later humanity? Is there just nothing really threatening out near the center of the continent, so they focus mostly on the west?

 

(mind the various draw lines the white circle is the Charr territory)

https://i.imgur.com/sxTtIto.png

[ugrakarma.9416]

these randomics mentions of the gods related to forgotten is misteriou. what taimi found about gods and forgotten?

 

Approaching the raptor puzzle

<Character Name>: I'll never make it across on foot.

Taimi: ...Commander...

Taimi: ...The Exalted...(static)...the gods...

<Character Name>: What just happened? Why did it get quiet?

<Character Name>: Taimi? Are you still there?

 

 

 

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beast_of_War

Edited December 1, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416