Rifle Scrapper after the patch......

[Holly.8190]

4 minutes ago, LilBiM.3581 said:

I imagine that only us masochists will be left playing this class by the time they're done with it.

Then I guess I am a Masochist, If receiving my most hated elite(Mech in case anyone cares) or butchering the Rifle leap (Still sad they got rid of my scream) then them getting rid of Jankyness in the Rifle AA isn't gonna make me leave.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

1 minute ago, Holly.8190 said:

 

I use Rifle with Heal Scrapper makes it easier to upkeep might, that wont change for me and do you really think Condi Mech or Holo could use rifle? Really? And never diss Hip Shot, I miss that AA.

If you dont mind the small DPS loss then yes it was viable. Even more viable in any PvP content as it offers range as well

1 minute ago, Holly.8190 said:

And I feel like you don't understand how Core Engineer was designed to work, Most of the Elite Weapons have Strong AAs to make up for the fact that Core Engineer is designed with Kits and they want the Elites to make changes to core (Shocker I know).

 

I know well enough how core Engineer works. But because we've been using kits as a main weapon doesnt invalidate how unhealthy it is for a class to have :

1 - low amount of equipable weapon

2 - garbage weapon that only serve as stat stick

 

Engineer weapon should be on par with kit when it comes to power damage. I've seen people advocate for kit removal and replacing them with something else which is wrong. But I've also seen people claiming you should play kit in every single build which is also wrong. Kit should be a utility and not a mandatory skill.

[Infusion.7149]

2 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

If you dont mind the small DPS loss then yes it was viable. Even more viable in any PvP content as it offers range as well

 

I know well enough how core Engineer works. But because we've been using kits as a main weapon doesnt invalidate how unhealthy it is for a class to have :

1 - low amount of equipable weapon

2 - garbage weapon that only serve as stat stick

 

Engineer weapon should be on par with kit when it comes to power damage. I've seen people advocate for kit removal and replacing them with something else which is wrong. But I've also seen people claiming you should play kit in every single build which is also wrong. Kit should be a utility and not a mandatory skill.

Engineer doesn't have weaponswap. What makes this so hard to understand?
If you are relying only on a ranged weapon it will be inherently worse than having a kit as well because the spec was designed around kits. Your logic is akin to someone saying that they want to play a staff necro or scepter firebrand (note that tomes act very similar to kits now except with a page resource).

[Alcatraznc.3869]

20 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Engineer doesn't have weaponswap. What makes this so hard to understand?

And ? I fail to see how does this counter any argument I ve previously said

20 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

If you are relying only on a ranged weapon it will be inherently worse than having a kit as well because the spec was designed around kits. Your logic is akin to someone saying that they want to play a staff necro or scepter firebrand (note that tomes act very similar to kits now except with a page resource).

 

No my logic is that kit should act as a weapon switch IF the user wants to. If the user wants to play with the weapon and 0 kit it should be able to do so. Having trash weapon because kits exist is like saying Elementalist skill should all be weak because on a single weapon it has 20 different skill. 

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

And ? I fail to see how does this counter any argument I ve previously said

 

No my logic is that kit should act as a weapon switch IF the user wants to. If the user wants to play with the weapon and 0 kit it should be able to do so. Having trash weapon because kits exist is like saying Elementalist skill should all be weak because on a single weapon it has 20 different skill. 

How is rifle not acting as a weapon? You calling it trash doesn't make it unusable.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said:

How is rifle not acting as a weapon? You calling it trash doesn't make it unusable.

 

My bad I should have been more accurate. A GOOD weapon.

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

My bad I should have been more accurate. A GOOD weapon.

So you are moving the goalposts. Every class has underperforming weapons, some are worse than engineer rifle by far.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Alcatraznc.3869]

5 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

So you are moving the goalposts. Every class has underperforming weapons, some are worse than engineer rifle by far.

 

Not every class are restricted to only 3 weapon. And how am I moving the goalpost exactly because rifle is the topic.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Alcatraznc.3869

[Holly.8190]

8 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

My bad I should have been more accurate. A GOOD weapon.

You may think its a bad weapon but I really like Rifle and really dont see the need to make any more changes its almost unrecognisable from where it was in Early 2021. I want my Self Knockback/Scream Leap back

[Infusion.7149]

11 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

 

Not every class are restricted to only 3 weapon. And how am I moving the goalpost exactly because rifle is the topic.

Rifle is still putting out 17K+ auto attack on scrapper if you are in range and more if you have stability. Dramatic much?

[stolyaR.9621]

8 hours ago, Holly.8190 said:

I really feel like I am in the minority when I say I prefer rifle when it was hip shot, the 3 round burst is what killed rifle scrapper for me (and the silly flip) but this change has me thinking about playing it again. It seems like a nice compromise between the original and the update.

I think you've forgot that you've played hip shot when scrapper had quickness but now it's gone also.

Wanna try to play hip shot without quickness?........gl.

Edited November 30, 2022 by stolyaR.9621

[Holly.8190]

1 minute ago, stolyaR.9621 said:

I think you've forgot that you've played hip shot when scrapper had quickness but now it's gone also.

Wanna try to play hip shot without quickness?........gl.

False, I played with Hip shot before quickness. Running around Maguuma with a rifle and my Gyros and I fell in love. Actually don't like how quickness is done on scrapper, really dull.

[stolyaR.9621]

1 minute ago, Holly.8190 said:

False, I played with Hip shot before quickness. Running around Maguuma with a rifle and my Gyros and I fell in love. Actually don't like how quickness is done on scrapper, really dull.

"Running around Maguuma ".............i see.......

Have you ever played pvp with scrapper ?

[Holly.8190]

Just now, stolyaR.9621 said:

"Running around Maguuma ".............i see.......

Have you ever played pvp with scrapper ?

Once or twice, think i used a hammer. Not really a PvP player, I use a Sword/Shield Holo in WvW 🤷‍♀️

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Holly.8190 said:

You may think its a bad weapon but I really like Rifle and really dont see the need to make any more changes its almost unrecognisable from where it was in Early 2021. I want my Self Knockback/Scream Leap back

The fact that you want the self CC back kinda says that you are a masochist, correct....

It seems that you are solely caring about thematical aspects and don't give any kittens about gameplay or performance. Which is fine by itself, but it's really not a great position to take when it comes to discussions about the health of the game.

[Holly.8190]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

The fact that you want the self CC back kinda says that you are a masochist, correct....

It seems that you are solely caring about thematical aspects and don't give any kittens about gameplay or performance. Which is fine by itself, but it's really not a great position to take when it comes to discussions about the health of the game.

Catalyst Hammer got a self knockback, Anet aren't against it and it is a super strong CC. And Thematics should be important, without it what's the point of having unique classes/elites.

[Kodama.6453]

2 minutes ago, Holly.8190 said:

Catalyst Hammer got a self knockback, Anet aren't against it and it is a super strong CC. And Thematics should be important, without it what's the point of having unique classes/elites.

Catalyst hammer got a backward leap, this is not the same as CCing yourself. These are different mechanics, maybe look into it.

And yes, thematics should be important, I am also a person advocating for thematic to get kept intact. But it is not the only important thing. It is one aspect, but we also have to keep in mind how skills perform, because having a great thematic on a weapon which sucks in gameplay and doesn't work the way it should still sucks.

[SnowMochi.7602]

Whoever did the balance patch clearly isn't familiar with the concept of balance, let alone the idea of a scale - you know, the object that weighs things. Have they even seen a scale? It doesn't seem like it. 

I liked the rifle. I was hoping and praying they'd make it better. They did, for that short sweet period of time. Then the whinging began (Did someone get butt hurt when they got killed by a core rifle engi? Did they see the engineers finally have fun? Oh no, we musn't let this pass! Oh no! No sir, no ma'am! Nerf those engis to kitten ground!!!) 

Reverse this insane "balance" patch and show that they do indeed understand the concept of balance.

[Thelgar.7214]

ANET Dev: "Hey, people like this and it's fun. We can't have effective builds people like that are fun. Effectiveness has to be miserable."

[SleepyBat.9034]

13 hours ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

So legit question here. Was Rifle scrapper overperforming in WvW/PvP,? Or was this just an oversite on their part? Or does Anet just really hate ranged PvP?

Some people don't like getting owned by a 5 signet mechanist spamming rifle auto-attacks. I'm not sure if it was actually that broken but it had the ability to kite pretty hard if focused which made it a pain outnumbered.

[Kuma.1503]

1 hour ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Some people don't like getting owned by a 5 signet mechanist spamming rifle auto-attacks. I'm not sure if it was actually that broken but it had the ability to kite pretty hard if focused which made it a pain outnumbered.

Well you're half right. Engi does have the ability to kite well when outnumbered. Superspeed + tossing nades or mortars behind you means you can go on the defensive and still pressure your opponent, force them to disengage to heal up.

Here's the baffling part. Holosmith does that far better than mechanist. Holo gets free baked in mobility, sustain, and crowd control. With traits, it can cleanse movement impairing condis including immobilize with holo leap, and it gets an additional cleanse by leaving forge at high heat (you should be keeping your heat high anyway). 

5 signet mech has one teleport, and it blows up once it's forced to burn it because that is both its only stunbreak and only cleanse (unless you take crisis zone which really hurts your damage output). It has no nades or mortars so it's not able to attack behind itself as it kites. It falls over against classes that can port on it repeatedly. Tempest (which is very common in this meta) can easily shut it down. 

Just magnetic aura, force it to burn shift signet to GTFO, then chase them with lightning flash, and put them in the CC chain to hell with Earth 3 immobilize, gale, shocking aura, aftershock immobilize, you can overload earth right on top of them and laugh at their attempt to do anything about it. 

 

Yet in spite of Holo being the clear overperformer between the two. Guess which one got buffed to the moon and which got nerfed.

[SleepyBat.9034]

10 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Well you're half right. Engi does have the ability to kite well when outnumbered. Superspeed + tossing nades or mortars behind you means you can go on the defensive and still pressure your opponent, force them to disengage to heal up.

Here's the baffling part. Holosmith does that far better than mechanist. Holo gets free baked in mobility, sustain, and crowd control. With traits, it can cleanse movement impairing condis including immobilize with holo leap, and it gets an additional cleanse by leaving forge at high heat (you should be keeping your heat high anyway). 

5 signet mech has one teleport, and it blows up once it's forced to burn it because that is both its only stunbreak and only cleanse (unless you take crisis zone which really hurts your damage output). It has no nades or mortars so it's not able to attack behind itself as it kites. It falls over against classes that can port on it repeatedly. Tempest (which is very common in this meta) can easily shut it down. 

Just magnetic aura, force it to burn shift signet to GTFO, then chase them with lightning flash, and put them in the CC chain to hell with Earth 3 immobilize, gale, shocking aura, aftershock immobilize, you can overload earth right on top of them and laugh at their attempt to do anything about it. 

 

Yet in spite of Holo being the clear overperformer between the two. Guess which one got buffed to the moon and which got nerfed.

Sorry I was thinking of two different types of mech builds, the ones that run 5 signets and the ones that run rocket boots.

[LilBiM.3581]

I just want to contribute that Engineer Rifle in WvW/PvP should receive a necessary buff in those modes. Even if you have to add another 3/4 animation that is the exact same for Rifle Burst as a second rifle shot, and let it apply 1 stack of bleeding and one stack of vulnerability for flavor or whatever, in order to make it usable in cases where I'm not guzzling my own elixir stun breaker in order to mildly threaten the guy on the other end.

 

Failing that, I propose switching Rifle AA SFX to Steven He yelling "Emotional Damage", atleast then me and my opponents would both get something impactful out of it.

 

Jokes aside, another alternative is to make Blunderbuss a 2 Ammo skill that, refreshes every x seconds OR reduces in cool-down ( -3 seconds ) every time you land a Rifle Burst Grenade.

[China.5268]

Like i said on the other topic.. i agree with the nerf but NOT THAT HARD LOL. They pratically killed rifle, if they had removed 1 shoot but keep the atk speed that would work ok, but removing 1 shoot PLUS DECREASE THE ATK SPEED is ridiculous...

[AlCapwnd.7834]

Rifle bursts with a mech was just dumb. I hated the class. I do raids and like to be the top DPS. but i hate the spec so much i couldnt bring myself to it.