Bring Back Riffle Mechanist

[Doggie.3184]

18 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Dominated? Where the hell was mechanist dominating anything in WvW/PvP?

I used Holo in WvW even before patch cuz the robot that never listens to you dies in 2 seconds to zerg. Now when it doesn't listen to you and leaps into a group of players it will insta-die even faster with it's 50% less defense and HP.

[lorddarkflare.9186]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The rifle mech is nowhere near gone.

 

In PvE? Yeah. It is still really good and effective. It feels clunky to play though. I think we need a better implementation of the leash. Ideally a gradual decay over a longer period of time I think.

In WvW/PvP?  I take issue with how hard rifle was hit. And the Mech has been mediocre in those modes for quite some time.

[Electrique.6157]

2 hours ago, Warractrius.9654 said:

Easy to play and no fun borring mechanist is now gone hell yea.
I play only mace mcehanist and i see only better, you whant play some easy class go back to hell play tetris.

   I could send you too , to see your origins , but i still have some good manners and i will not do that . There was my opinion sending me to hell it's kinda meh

[Batalix.2873]

On 11/30/2022 at 8:07 AM, Wing.5819 said:

They should have just given us a potion to shrink the Mech. That would have appeased most of these crybabies.

 

You still sound bitter.

 

Also, extremely unlikely Mech players would have voluntarily shrunk their J-Mech. In fact, that is a huge issue behind Mech as a community-wide problem--the moral weakness of the lower quintiles of players who just default to the easiest setting, regardless of how it impacts the game or community at large.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Batalix.2873

[Duglaive.5236]

46 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

 

the moral weakness of the lower quintiles of players who just default to the easiest setting

 

My goodness, that is one big horse you're on. Percheron? Clydesdale? Or perhaps a real giant like a Shire?

In all seriousness, I'm a bit disturbed that anyone would address any of their fellow players in such derogatory terms when, as should be obvious, the bulk of the people playing are here for some casual fun. The arrogance in your post is unwelcome - and ugly.

[Batalix.2873]

20 minutes ago, Duglaive.5236 said:

 

My goodness, that is one big horse you're on. Percheron? Clydesdale? Or perhaps a real giant like a Shire?

In all seriousness, I'm a bit disturbed that anyone would address any of their fellow players in such derogatory terms when, as should be obvious, the bulk of the people playing are here for some casual fun. The arrogance in your post is unwelcome - and ugly.

 

The sheer extent of denialism adopted to give afk players a pass utterly amazes me. The comment I replied to implied that the problem isn't Mech's poor design or Mech players' laziness, or even the sheer oversaturation of Mechs in the most-played game maps, but that it was somehow non-Mech "crybabies" who need to just accept all these problems unquestioningly. The comment was insensitive, under considered, neoliberal garbage on its face.

 

And tone policing me for criticizing a legitimately awful problem with the game, at least a substantial part of which was propounded through the players' own agency, is just reactionary faffery. Choosing to play the laziest class in the game--a class the objectively circumvents basic design limitations and practically disengages from the vast majority of content--and especially doing so while determinedly disregarding the effect of Mech en masse on the health of the game and community, is a moral choice, and frankly a poor one.  No amount of indignation is going to change the fact that rifle Mech was a "Bad Thing" and that Mech players should be guilty for playing/defending it.

 

Maybe my disdain is ugly to you. To some, uncritical individuals, the honest, unpleasant truth is ugly. But the sheer ignorance and self-entitlement I see coming from rifle mechs is ugly to me. The comment I replied to was ugly to me, so I called it out in turn.

 

Get off *your* high horse.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Batalix.2873

[Doctor Hide.6345]

17 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

 

The sheer extent of denialism adopted to give afk players a pass utterly amazes me. The comment I replied to implied that the problem isn't Mech's poor design or Mech players' laziness, or even the sheer oversaturation of Mechs in the most-played game maps, but that it was somehow non-Mech "crybabies" who need to just accept all these problems unquestioningly. The comment was insensitive, under considered, neoliberal garbage on its face.

 

And tone policing me for criticizing a legitimately awful problem with the game, at least a substantial part of which was propounded through the players' own agency, is just reactionary faffery. Choosing to play the laziest class in the game--a class the objectively circumvents basic design limitations and practically disengages from the vast majority of content--and especially doing so while determinedly disregarding the effect of Mech en masse on the health of the game and community, is a moral choice, and frankly a poor one.  No amount of indignation is going to change the fact that rifle Mech was a "Bad Thing" and that Mech players should be guilty for playing/defending it.

 

Maybe my disdain is ugly to you. To some, uncritical individuals, the honest, unpleasant truth is ugly. But the sheer ignorance and self-entitlement I see coming from rifle mechs is ugly to me. The comment I replied to was ugly to me, so I called it out in turn.

 

Get off *your* high horse.

 

     Actually, there is no moral high or low ground here when it comes to mech players. It is just a game after all, so there is nothing wrong with people enjoying a LI build when almost all other builds are piano style and not fun to play. You are putting morals where none should be placed because this is not the real world. You can place morals in the real world all you want, but judging people like you are some sort of god for having a preference in a VIDEO GAME just shows what kind of person you are in the inside. And frankly, it is not a nice one.

[Duglaive.5236]

20 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Get off *your* high horse.

 Well, you certainly know how to "double-down" as it were. I leave you to your righteous indignation 🙄

Edited December 2, 2022 by Duglaive.5236

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, KrivukasLT.3507 said:

maybe low tiers, becasue you only needed a shield and few attacks to completely destroy mechanist. And then anet listened to all  that loud and  salty minority.

Not every class has access to a shield so it did limit the counter play. 

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Dominated? Where the hell was mechanist dominating anything in WvW/PvP?

In particular it dominated low rank sPvP and WvW raiding (5-10 people). Mechanist was basically another entire player following you around.

Scrapper in particular could can be easily abused to stealth and One shot then chase the remaining members with rapid fire rifle. 

[Obtena.7952]

LAWL ... did I actually see someone imply that LI mech players are morally corrupt gamers? That's a new low around here. 

Expected nerfs TBH ... can't understand how people didn't see this coming a mile away. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Doctor Hide.6345]

9 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

LAWL ... did I actually see someone imply that LI mech players are morally corrupt gamers? That's a new low around here. 

Expected nerfs TBH ... can't understand how people didn't see this coming a mile away. 

 

PvE wise it is mostly the same. I actually expect buffs to the coefficients if it is too low atm because they wanted it to be net neutral.

[Tails.9372]

13 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Expected nerfs TBH ... can't understand how people didn't see this coming a mile away. 

The nerfs were expected, even that they went about it in a completely counterintuitive way. The backlash they brought upon themselves, wich also had to be expected, is still justified though.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

LAWL ... did I actually see someone imply that LI mech players are morally corrupt gamers? That's a new low around here. 

Expected nerfs TBH ... can't understand how people didn't see this coming a mile away. 

 

If I said the nerf wasnt expected would be lying. But if I said the nerf was justified I would also be lying. Pmech before the nerf sat right in the middle above support and below high APM DPS build. 

 

But what Anet did was punishing Mechanist for not actively managing a garbage coded AI and killing rifle in PvP and WvW. So yeah we can all jump on the hype wagon that is the Holosmith buff but :

1 - Holosmith should have received this buff the moment Pmech started to become a better DPS

2 - There is 0 reason to nerf a weapon that wasnt even overperforming in any sort of PvP content. 

3 - I only care about Holosmith buff because I love Holosmith. Other dont.

 

 

[Kal Durak.2830]

On 11/30/2022 at 2:38 PM, Ruisenior.6342 said:

I repeat here:

     Let's make some noise, we can't avoid the fact that they killed riffle mechanist. As it is right now its too squishy and doesnt make up with other classes in terms of dps.

    Those changes will make alot of people leave the game. Tough times incoming...

It's sad.  Someone in Anet hates the Mech, they put people and resources on how the Mech sounds.  I have to ask, where do they get these ideas?  Put people on Balancing and fixing WvW please.

[CrashTestAuto.9108]

Yeah, I think it's sad that so much effort has been put into specifically making a class feel less fun. Not even a nerf of an overperforming class, but literally just making it less enjoyable to play.

 

If there was going to be a change made that wasn't a nerf, then just shrinking the Mech to the size of a jade bot (or literally, making it use your Jade Bot, skin and all), would have done much more to keep Mechanists and non-Mechanists happy by reducing the visual clutter.

[Tails.9372]

55 minutes ago, DtenCfour.3567 said:

I have to ask, where do they get these ideas?

It's a mixture of the complaints from people (who neither care about what the e-spec is going for nor understand how the e-pec actually works) giving them the "what" and the balance team trying to come up with a solution (in a "wouldn't it be cool if..." kind of way) by, according to their own words, looking at it in a vacuum. The rifle changes were done in a similar fashion with players asking to make the animation more like Three Round Burst because they didn't like how it was just for A-Net to turn around and go "let's do an animation clean-up by reducing the number of shots" which is ofc. not what most people wanted to see.

[Kal Durak.2830]

14 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

It's a mixture of the complaints from people (who neither care about what the e-spec is going for nor understand how the e-pec actually works) giving them the "what" and the balance team trying to come up with a solution (in a "wouldn't it be cool if..." kind of way) by, according to their own words, looking at it in a vacuum. The rifle changes were done in a similar fashion with players asking to make the animation more like Three Round Burst because they didn't like how it was just for A-Net to turn around and go "let's do an animation clean-up by reducing the number of shots" which is ofc. not what most people wanted to see.

You know you are right. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by DtenCfour.3567

[Mell.4873]

9 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

2 - There is 0 reason to nerf a weapon that wasnt even overperforming in any sort of PvP content. 

The Devs know this is incorrect purely based on how often every Engineer Elite was played in sPvP with the Rifle. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said:

Yeah, I think it's sad that so much effort has been put into specifically making a class feel less fun. Not even a nerf of an overperforming class, but literally just making it less enjoyable to play.

If there was going to be a change made that wasn't a nerf, then just shrinking the Mech to the size of a jade bot (or literally, making it use your Jade Bot, skin and all), would have done much more to keep Mechanists and non-Mechanists happy by reducing the visual clutter.

False, there was balance issue and so they targeted that specific balance issue. Shrinking the mech wouldn't solve anything about that, meanwhile the introduced changes have a clear direction of making the mech gameplay less passive.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Kuma.1503]

On 11/30/2022 at 10:07 AM, Niddallee.6712 said:

Wdym too squishy, you ever played ele? Unless you do not have 11k health in raids, please, do not talk about squishiness

Okay, we don't have 11k HP in raids so we'll continue talking about squishiness. 

Jokes aside, ele is an outlier here. They've repeatedly asked ANet to be glass canons with top tier DPS, and it looks like they're getting their wish with these buffs they continue getting. 

Personally, I'd like ele to be made less squishy and be brought up to 15k HP, since they're forced into melee so often, but meh. That's a discussion for the ele subforums. 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Kuma.1503]

39 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

The Devs know this is incorrect purely based on how often every Engineer Elites was played in sPvP with the rifle. 

That's to be expected when you have a grand total of 1 (one) core power weapon to choose from. 

You pick rifle for power damage or you pick the elite spec weapon. Asuming both are balanced and picked equally, you'd still be looking at a >50% pick rate for rifle. Factoring in the few core players who have no choice but to pick rifle on power builds. 

That's an insane number if you compare it to a class with more weapon variety. It will look like a overperforming weapon in a vacuum even if balanced. 

 

Context matters. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Mell.4873]

25 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

That's to be expected when you have a grand total of 1 (one) core power weapon to choose from. 

You pick rifle for power damage or you pick the elite spec weapon. Asuming both are balanced and picked equally, you'd still be looking at a >50% pick rate for rifle. Factoring in the few core players who have no choice but to pick rifle on power builds. 

That's an insane number if you compare it to a class with more weapon variety. It will look like a overperforming weapon in a vacuum even if balanced. 

 

Context matters. 

Well when 50% of the players in the sPvP are Engineers and every Elite has the rifle there is definitely a problem.

I bet another thing they looked at was how often people ran Kits becouse if the didn't that would indicate they can do more damage without one than with one. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Kuma.1503]

38 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Well when 50% of the players in the sPvP are Engineers and every Elite has the rifle there is definitely a problem. 

True, there's definitely no arguing with that. 

Do you have any proof that was the case beyond annecdotes? Because (anecdotally) I can say with 100% certainty that that hasn't been my experience playing PvP at any point. 

I've seen plenty of engineers running their elite spec weapon, and a good variety of other classes. The most popular being Harbinger, Willbender, Tempest, Untamed, Specter (dropped off after the nerfs), and Herald. The class I've seen the least of has been mesmer if we're talking PvP, but I've seen a good few roaming Virtuosos in WvW playing the condi one shot build. 

This meta has been more balanced than most we've seen post Feb 2020 with every class having at least one good build. 

Different people are going to notice different things. It would be nice if Anet published statistics so players didn't have to infer these things, alas all we get is the occasional glimpse when a dev decides to reveal the actual numbers to us. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

True, there's definitely no arguing with that. 

Do you have any proof that was the case beyond annecdotes? Because (anecdotally) I can say with 100% certainty that that hasn't been my experience playing PvP at any point. 

The best proof here is probably the fact that anet has access to -and uses- statistics for their game. This weird notion about "changes being blindly introduced because someone on the forum/reddit complained about it" should just... go take a rest.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Sobx.1758