Bring Back Riffle Mechanist

[Mell.4873]

3 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

True, there's definitely no arguing with that. 

Do you have any proof that was the case beyond annecdotes? Because I can say with 100% certainty that that hasn't been my experience playing PvP at any point. 

I saw a lot of holo's running sword/sheild. Scrappers running Hammer, and Mechs attempting to make Mace/Shield builds work after all the nerfs that build got. I even saw the occasional pistol/pistol condi engineer. Whom I'd target and get into a duel with whenever possible because that's a build I like to play pistol core engineer duels are very entertaining. 

 

I've also encountered more eles than engineers. Specifically catalysts and Tempests who dominate teamfights and side nodes. And no shortage of Untamed, Virtuoso, Bladesworn, Herald, (recently) Chronomancer, Harbinger, Reaper, Core Guardian, Willbender, and Thieves of every elite spec. 

No where near 50% engineer representation. That's just blatant hyperbole.

Maybe I only play in gold 3 / plat and I noticed a drastic increase in Engineers and then a subsequent counters to them.

2-3 Engineers per team in the early days then once the counter play came in it when down to 1-2 per game. The counters most came if the form of Core Guardian, Elementalist (Tempest mostly), Vindicator, Untamed(sometimes alot of them), Mesmer(surprising counter), finally Spellbreaker. 

All these had tones of projectile immunity options so it stopped the wave on Engineer spam. 

[Kuma.1503]

8 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The best proof here is probably the fact that anet has access to -and uses- statistics for their game.

Statistics they do not share. Unlike other games like League of Legends, where sites exist where we can clearly see data on winrate, pickrate, matchup winrate, item pickrate (in GW2, this could be weapon and trait pickrates). 

All we can do is guess based on personal experience and infer based on their decisions. 

 

Personally, I'd like to see the statistic that shows them that heal scrapper was overperforming in PvP to the point where it deserved losing quickness. Or in PvE where it deserved halving the healing on med blaster and duration on super elixir cut in half. They could have easily added a (when Mechanist is selected) tag on the latter, so the HAM nerfs didn't affect it, but chose not to. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Mell.4873]

11 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

 

Personally, I'd like to see the statistic that shows them that heal scrapper was overperforming in PvP to the point where it deserved losing quickness. Or in PvE where it deserved halving the healing on med blaster and duration on super elixir cut in half. They could have easily added a (when Mechanist is selected) tag on the latter, so the HAM nerfs didn't affect it, but chose not to. 

It was more WvW and I know its only anecdotal but I have seen people prior to the nerf being bullied into a Scrapper role by organised Zergs and WvW guilds. 

[Kuma.1503]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

It was more WvW and I know its only anecdotal but I have seen people prior to the nerf being bullied into a Scrapper role by organised Zergs and WvW guilds. 

WvW nerfs were justified. Even if they went a bit too hard in some areas like they did with Sneak Gyro. (This should have had the self duration buffed as compensation so roaming scrapper wasn't impacted as much). 

PvE and PvP nerfs were not.

I find it baffling that they nerfed Scrapper as hard as they did in PvP when Holosmith is undeniably the best engi elite spec. In fact they've just buffed Holo this patch when it was already on it's way back into the meta with the recent nade and tools buffs. 

Why did scrapper lose quickness, but Harbinger and Catalyst didn't? Was scrapper dominating harder than either? 

I'd really like to see these statistics they supposedly balance around because I have to question a lot of these decisions. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Alcatraznc.3869]

3 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

The Devs know this is incorrect purely based on how often every Engineer Elite was played in sPvP with the Rifle. 

 

1- Engineer dont have a lot of weapon to chose from.

 

2 - In that logic then D/P on thief should be nerfed. Sword and Greatsword on Guardian should be nerfed. Dagger and Scepter on Necro should be nerfed. These are just small example but the list is long.

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

WvW nerfs were justified. Even if they went a bit too hard in some areas like they did with Sneak Gyro. (This should have had the self duration buffed as compensation so roaming scrapper wasn't impacted as much). 

PvE and PvP nerfs were not.

I find it baffling that they nerfed Scrapper as hard as they did in PvP when Holosmith is undeniably the best engi elite spec. In fact they've just buffed Holo this patch when it was already on it's way back into the meta with the recent nade and tools buffs. 

Why did scrapper lose quickness, but Harbinger and Catalyst didn't? Was scrapper dominating harder than either? 

I'd really like to see these statistics they supposedly balance around because I have to question a lot of these decisions. 

There is no real split between sPvP and WvW so nerfs get carried across. I will say perminant Quickness on Scrapper was very OP when paired with the Rifle for sPvP. You could just chase people if they tried to Line of Sight you, which for some classes was the only thing they could try and do. 

 

@Alcatraznc.3869 Well then why did none of the Specialisations use there Elite specific weapon instead of Rifle? 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Sobx.1758]

16 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

WvW nerfs were justified. Even if they went a bit too hard in some areas like they did with Sneak Gyro. (This should have had the self duration buffed as compensation so roaming scrapper wasn't impacted as much). 

Pretty sure it was in the same -or around that one- balance pass that overally nerfed stealth duration. Again, it seems in line with the goal of those balance changes.

16 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

PvE and PvP nerfs were not.

They can still get to adjusting pvp later. On the other hand I see 0 reason to believe those changes were somehow not justified in pve. It seems rather clear that they absolutely were and those builds are still doing well in pve.

[Kodama.6453]

On 12/3/2022 at 2:08 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

Pretty sure it was in the same -or around that one- balance pass that overally nerfed stealth duration. Again, it seems in line with the goal of those balance changes.

Even if they wanted to reduce stealth durations across the board, that nerf was way too harsh. Having just 3 seconds of stealth on an elite skill with 60 seconds cooldown is too weak. The skill gets outperformed by toss elixir s now, kitten.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[Sobx.1758]

27 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Even if they wanted to reduce stealth durations across the board, that nerf was way too harsh. Having just 3 seconds of stealth on an elite skill with 60 seconds cooldown is way too weak. The skill gets outperformed by toss elixir s now, kitten.

Good point. 😅

[Unicorn Luna.5204]

It's still good it's just not top dog with minimal effort any more. 

[Zzik.5873]

If anet you want to keep the badly design clunky mechanic of mechanist that is mechanic genius. Can you at least take someone that actully know how to do 3D animation, redo the rifle 1 animation, or better just bring back the 3x burst animation, it was a good one.

[Zzik.5873]

On 11/30/2022 at 1:38 AM, Ruisenior.6342 said:

I repeat here:

     Let's make some noise, we can't avoid the fact that they killed riffle mechanist. As it is right now its too squishy and doesnt make up with other classes in terms of dps.

    Those changes will make alot of people leave the game. Tough times incoming...

Its was my quit moment. And Im playing since 8 years now. Not gonna log in till they bring back the 3x burst animation and remove the badly design new cluncky mechanic of mechanist.

[Thelgar.7214]

10 hours ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

Its was my quit moment. And Im playing since 8 years now. Not gonna log in till they bring back the 3x burst animation and remove the badly design new cluncky mechanic of mechanist.

I hate to say it, but you likely won't be logging back in if you stick to that. In 10 years I can't recall a single time that they completely ruined something the way they did this and went back and fixed it to any reasonable semblance of what it was before in comparable fun or remotely reasonable effectiveness. The best that will ever happen based upon past results is that eventually the person who did this is replaced by someone else for some reason and the next person will change it in some way that sucks a little less, but still sucks enough that it isn't worth playing.

[Zzik.5873]

16 minutes ago, Thelgar.7214 said:

I hate to say it, but you likely won't be logging back in if you stick to that. In 10 years I can't recall a single time that they completely ruined something the way they did this and went back and fixed it to any reasonable semblance of what it was before in comparable fun or remotely reasonable effectiveness. The best that will ever happen based upon past results is that eventually the person who did this is replaced by someone else for some reason and the next person will change it in some way that sucks a little less, but still sucks enough that it isn't worth playing.

Guess after 8 years the (in) competence of anet drove me away. Guess they dont want to make a fun game anymore. If for the sake of balancing they need to destroy the fun of the game. Maybe your balance aint worth it anet.  Guess Ill take my time and money elswhere. Ill be back if you decide to fix your stupid change anet. Before some stupid kid comment, no It not the first time anet kitten up, theyve destroy so many cool thing on the engineer over the last 5 years. They dump down the gameplay and the build craft to a point. Theirs no fun build craft anymore it so simple and straight forward, nothing as hidden synergie, everything is just boring and simple, next thing they remove will be aim assit rocket Im sure, one of the last fun trait on engi. Anet you should learn history, so many mmo before you did this, scraping the gameplay for sake of balance, and every single one of them have shutdown for this reason.

[Kontrolle.3514]

On 12/2/2022 at 9:35 PM, Mell.4873 said:

Maybe I only play in gold 3 / plat and I noticed a drastic increase in Engineers and then a subsequent counters to them.

2-3 Engineers per team in the early days then once the counter play came in it when down to 1-2 per game. The counters most came if the form of Core Guardian, Elementalist (Tempest mostly), Vindicator, Untamed(sometimes alot of them), Mesmer(surprising counter), finally Spellbreaker. 

All these had tones of projectile immunity options so it stopped the wave on Engineer spam. 

 

So the counters to the super op engi rifle are all classes except necro and thief, well....

[Ruisenior.6342]

1 hour ago, Kontrolle.3514 said:

 

So the counters to the super op engi rifle are all classes except necro and thief, well....

    Necromancer corrosive poison cloud counters so badly mechanist riffle and for thieves mechanist are a piece of meet. Yes riffle mechanist op on pvp.....

[BlackZzor.2719]

the rifle stil doing the most dps of all weapons there is not much damage drop off. it feels only lower than bevor because this slow autoattack but the buff the damage.

Edited December 4, 2022 by BlackZzor.2719

[raubvogel.5071]

I want it back as well. And i wish that they would change all the other ranged weapons to something similar. So the clunkyness is gone. It should be as even and fluid as melee.

 

Btw. intensity should not be a reason to justify damage. You can be disabled, lost your arm, fingers etc. with that your punished enough.

[Strixxe.2019]

I wonder when they nerf rangers pet so youll have to be near it at 420 or so range or your pet becomes derpy and runs away. And dont forget to nerf longbow because doing 30k+ dmg with one attack is just ridiculous. And dont forget to delete one wolf pack, who needs x2 multiplier on their dmg. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by KrivukasLT.3507

[Zzik.5873]

27 minutes ago, KrivukasLT.3507 said:

I wonder when they nerf rangers pet so youll have to be near it at 420 or so range or your pet becomes derpy and runs away. And dont forget to nerf longbow because doing 30k+ dmg with one attack is just ridiculous. And dont forget to delete one wolf pack, who needs x2 multiplier on their dmg. 

Mesmer should have a debuff when they dont have 3 clones up. Warrior should loose vitality when stamine aint full. Necro should not have acces to weapons skill when their life force is at 100% so they can force the player to go into shroud. What are you guys not having fun?

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, Kontrolle.3514 said:

 

So the counters to the super op engi rifle are all classes except necro and thief, well....

That and only some of the elite specialisation within those classes. I mean Ranger has almost no projectile blocks outside Untamed (turtle and that's about it)

Warrior has a shield but not many utilities or class mechanics outside Spellbreaker. I'm pretty sure Catalyst has a much more limited toolset to block projectiles especially if you use Hammer. I mean I could go on.

If the meta is counter Ranged damage then its not healthy. The Rifle change should bring back classes like Necromancer into the meta with its high survivability. 

 

[Mell.4873]

18 hours ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

Its was my quit moment. And Im playing since 8 years now. Not gonna log in till they bring back the 3x burst animation and remove the badly design new cluncky mechanic of mechanist.

So what you saying is when your chosen class is back to being unhealthy and toxic for the game you will come back. I mean at least they didn't touch the rifle damage (much) and instead reworked the animation so it isn't a rapid fire machine gun. 

[Zzik.5873]

1 minute ago, Mell.4873 said:

So what you saying is when your chosen class is back to being unhealthy and toxic for the game you will come back. I mean at least they didn't touch the rifle damage (much) and instead reworked the animation so it isn't a rapid fire machine gun. 

Why was it bad that the ENGINEER had a machine gun, it was unique, epic and fun using it? Oh yeah you want all class to be excatly the same, a boring grey goo. Nerf the damage number, dont give me a crap animation. Whats unhealthy for this game is killing the uniquness of all class. Dont care if mech is good or not, I care if its clunky and is its animate professionnaly, not like this amateur 3D animation, even a student would do better.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

30 minutes ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

Why was it bad that the ENGINEER had a machine gun, it was unique, epic and fun using it? Oh yeah you want all class to be excatly the same, a boring grey goo. Nerf the damage number, dont give me a crap animation. Whats unhealthy for this game is killing the uniquness of all class. Dont care if mech is good or not, I care if its clunky and is its animate professionnaly, not like this amateur 3D animation, even a student would do better.

 

Technically it was never a machine gun, so I can at least see why they changed it. The rifle for Engi isn't a rifle at all to be honest. It is a shotgun, so them making it two shots makes more sense if we are shooting slugs or pellet's out instead of actual bullets.

The shotgun also explains the trait for 450 range as well.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Doctor Hide.6345

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

Why was it bad that the ENGINEER had a machine gun, it was unique, epic and fun using it? Oh yeah you want all class to be excatly the same, a boring grey goo. Nerf the damage number, dont give me a crap animation. Whats unhealthy for this game is killing the uniquness of all class. Dont care if mech is good or not, I care if its clunky and is its animate professionnaly, not like this amateur 3D animation, even a student would do better.

It was to easy to use and there was almost no counter play. I mean how can anyone in PvP line of sight the rifle when you can just chase them endlessly while machine gunning them. Atleast the Ranger Longbow animation has a long wind up before it fires (which is now shared by the new Rifle animation). 

I think nerfing the damage to much would be the worst trade off since it removes any PvE or PvP usage. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Mell.4873