Undo the rifle changes

[Corvolupo.5708]

12 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So when you said "If overperforming was the issue, it could/should have been solved (easier I would think) by tweaking numbers.", what exactly were you talking about? Pve? Wvw? Both? Neither?

Because if it was about pve, now you're saying you unedrstand it's a relatively small dps nerf, so it did what it was supposed to do. And when you're talking about wvw then the straight numerical nerf would probably achieve the same thing? From what I see, part of the usual misunderstanding when talking about builds comes from lack of specifying which mode the feedback is about.

Not much to say here, fully understand people got used to the old feeling of aa, duh, I got used to it despite thinking it was ridiculous from the start. I'm glad they changed it and yet still needed some -admittedly, rather short though 😄- time to adjust. I think it's perfectly natural though, so I don't see it as an issue.

Well... I was not sayn that we have to get used to something boring to be able to unsee It. The hip shot was boring from day 1 the 3 shots experiment was fun, the two shots are still very boring... But Is a matter of tastes... Not Just get used to something imo. At this point anet can Just give us a double barrel shotgun and rework the weapon from that concept, not Just the AA. I'd love to see the team do something coherent for once.

[Zzik.5873]

On 12/13/2022 at 1:46 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

Did you ever consider that there are people who simply dislike giving themselves a penalty?

That's the case for me. Since I know that this mechanical genius punishment exists (no, Anet, this is not a mechanic which rewards positioning, this is a mechanic which punishes, the exact opposite of rewarding), I will avoid getting that punishment when I can.

Yes, I can use the come to me and attack commands to avoid the punishment. I adjusted and do that every time I play mechanist. At the same time, I find this gameplay extremely annoying. It's a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situation. The gameplay is just annoying me to no end, especially since there are also the blue rings of other mechanists around and it's annoying to keep track of your mech in large number fights. But if I just ignore this mechanic, I am also annoyed because I know I don't play the class to it's full potential.

So yeah, I would have preferred a straight up damage nerf over this change. Because then i wouldn't have to deal with the annoying punishment for not kitten slapping my mech every 6 seconds and would still use the class to it's full potential.

There could also have been other ways to make mechanist require more input from the player, for example removing the ability to put mech commands on auto cast again (which also helps in other aspects, for example braindead mechanists which keep CCing the watchknights in OLC because they can't think for 2 seconds and turn off the auto cast of their mech CC skills).

Adding auto cast on mech skill was soooooo dump in the first place. In no world this can be a good idea. Anet is stacking bad design to fix bad design.

[razaln.1684]

What people enjoy is subjective. For me it was fun before, now it's not. 

 

I think it's mostly the firing animation, which I simply cannot stand and that's putting it lightly. Despise might be a more proper term. 

 

The three shots were great, made you feel like you were moving fast and getting stuff done. Now it's just annoying waiting on the rate of fire, especially as compared to before. Don't care about how the numbers crunch or add up, doesn't matter if it isn't fun and that's the whole point of playing the game anyway. Just not interested in playing this class post nerf as it is.

 

Glad I have other options. 

 

I'm a fan of what Anet does but got to admit disappointment on this one. Really a shame and overall a negative for the game imo. However they probably don't read these posts anyway 

[chris.9142]

On 12/12/2022 at 8:05 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

So when you said "If overperforming was the issue, it could/should have been solved (easier I would think) by tweaking numbers.", what exactly were you talking about? Pve? Wvw? Both? Neither?

Because if it was about pve, now you're saying you unedrstand it's a relatively small dps nerf, so it did what it was supposed to do. And when you're talking about wvw then the straight numerical nerf would probably achieve the same thing? From what I see, part of the usual misunderstanding when talking about builds comes from lack of specifying which mode the feedback is about.

Not much to say here, fully understand people got used to the old feeling of aa, duh, I got used to it despite thinking it was ridiculous from the start. I'm glad they changed it and yet still needed some -admittedly, rather short though 😄- time to adjust. I think it's perfectly natural though, so I don't see it as an issue.

It's definitely more then a small dps nerd like20-30% used to hit around 20k in some raids the same situations now it's around 14-15k

[Zzik.5873]

Just want to comment to brimg this up so anet know they kitten up with the animation destroction. Pls anet bring back the 3x burst!

[Gendalfs.7521]

4 hours ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

Just want to comment to brimg this up so anet know they kitten up with the animation destroction. Pls anet bring back the 3x burst!

Im here with you.

Anet thought that they can make changes before Christmas holidays and people will vent off-problem solved.

Yeah need to bring problem up again.

I could agree that Mech 38k bench was a bit too much, but OMG not from 38k to 24k. Maybe to 30k?

Overall I tried Virtuoso and yeah dmg is awesome, but I die more frequently. So I went back to Mech and it feels like home.

I feel I have Much less dps and rifle is almost a wet noodle stick.

But still I like how Mechanist plays. Signet and trait sinergy is great.

 

p.s. I heard this game is on life support and Anet has not enough programmers, can someone comment on this?

[Zzik.5873]

2 hours ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Im here with you.

Anet thought that they can make changes before Christmas holidays and people will vent off-problem solved.

Yeah need to bring problem up again.

I could agree that Mech 38k bench was a bit too much, but OMG not from 38k to 24k. Maybe to 30k?

Overall I tried Virtuoso and yeah dmg is awesome, but I die more frequently. So I went back to Mech and it feels like home.

I feel I have Much less dps and rifle is almost a wet noodle stick.

But still I like how Mechanist plays. Signet and trait sinergy is great.

 

p.s. I heard this game is on life support and Anet has not enough programmers, can someone comment on this?

Last time I heard, they had like 200 dev. So I dont think they really miss programmer. That said making game is hard and tedious, I dont expect a change that soon. Just want to keep the preasure so they dont forgot. I dont think the game is on live support, EoD was their best selling expac ever. Would be a miss opportunity to not keep devlopping this game.

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

Just want to comment to brimg this up so anet know they kitten up with the animation destroction.

What animation destruction?

12 hours ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

Pls anet bring back the 3x burst!

Please don't, unless they considerably slow it down anyways.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

On 1/9/2023 at 12:03 PM, Gendalfs.7521 said:

p.s. I heard this game is on life support and Anet has not enough programmers, can someone comment on this?

Migrating rendering engine from DX9 to DX11 is not something you do "on life support"....

Edited January 10, 2023 by Lord Trejgon.2809
typo

[The Boz.2038]

22 hours ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

I heard this game is on life support

That's gotta be some *really loose* definition of "life support" at play...

[Kstyle.5829]

Nah don't revert the changes.   Facing rifle mechanists in PVP was annoying.  Not because they are hard to beat or particularly strong but just because the skill floor was so low that every single noob played it.  And when you have 4 noobs on your team and you're fighting against 5 noobs on the other team then your noobs get slaughtered by the auto attacks of doom.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Kstyle.5829

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Kstyle.5829 said:

Nah don't revert the changes.   Facing rifle mechanists in PVP was annoying.  Not because they are hard to beat or particularly strong but just because the skill floor was so low that every single noob played it.  And when you have 4 noobs on your team and you're fighting against 5 noobs on the other team then your noobs get slaughtered by the auto attacks of doom.

At least they should partially revert the damage nerf in PvP. That the auto attack is dealing less damage than the pre rework skill hipshot is an embarrassment.

[coro.3176]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

At least they should partially revert the damage nerf in PvP. That the auto attack is dealing less damage than the pre rework skill hipshot is an embarrassment.

But it's also now proccing explosion effects on every attack.

• Steel-Packed_Powder
• Explosive Temper
• Big Boomer
• Short Fuse

And it's still better than pistol auto :)

[Kodama.6453]

20 minutes ago, coro.3176 said:

But it's also now proccing explosion effects on every attack.

• Steel-Packed_Powder
• Explosive Temper
• Big Boomer
• Short Fuse

And it's still better than pistol auto 🙂

Pistol auto is the worst auto attack in the entire game, so yeah, not really a hard hurdle to clear there.

That it procs explosion traits is nice, but I still think the damage got nerfed too hard and they should give it back some.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

11 hours ago, coro.3176 said:

But it's also now proccing explosion effects on every attack.

• Steel-Packed_Powder
• Explosive Temper
• Big Boomer
• Short Fuse

And it's still better than pistol auto 🙂

 

You're not exactly raising the bar very high. In fact you're not raising the bar at all, it is still lying on the floor. 

[lorddarkflare.9186]

Pistol auto being trash continues to tickle, annoy and occasionally enrage me. There is no reason it should still be so bad.

[Zzik.5873]

So because pistol auto suck, rifle auto need to suck? You know guys we only have 3 core weapons... 1 of them already suck... now a second is falling straight to its side... 

Dont listen to the hater anet, they only gonna make the game worst for everyone. Revert the change and give us the 3x burst.

[Mell.4873]

On 1/15/2023 at 3:19 AM, Makuragee.3058 said:

So because pistol auto suck, rifle auto need to suck? You know guys we only have 3 core weapons... 1 of them already suck... now a second is falling straight to its side... 

Dont listen to the hater anet, they only gonna make the game worst for everyone. Revert the change and give us the 3x burst.

I highly doupt they will revert anything at this point. The dust has settled and so has this animation change, pve damage is largely unaffected so outside of the nice three shot sound nothing really changed (except PvP). 

[Kodama.6453]

10 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I highly doupt they will revert anything at this point. The dust has settled and so has this animation change, pve damage is largely unaffected so outside of the nice three shot sound nothing really changed (except PvP). 

If it seems like the dust has settled, then I guess we have to keep making buzz about it.

It's not acceptable for me that 1. the change was a dps nerf for PvE when it was supposed to be a neutral change for that environment and 2. the PvP damage got nerfed so hard that it is worse than the pre rework skill hipshot.

The change to the rifle auto attack is awful and while there is no need to entirely revert it, it definitely needs follow up to make the skill feel better again.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Kodama.6453

[Mell.4873]

9 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

If it seems like the dust has settled, then i guess we have to keep making buzz about it.

It's not acceptable for me that 1. the change was a dps nerf for PvE when it was supposed to be a neutral change for that environment and 2. the PvP damage got nerfed so hard that it is worse than the pre rework skill hipshot.

The change to the rifle auto attack is awful and while there is no need to entirely revert it, it definitely needs follow up to make the skill feel better again.

Its a bit like the Mirage 2nd dodge I highly doupt it will ever change back at least during this expansion cycle. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I'm still top DPS or 2nd top DPS in most groups, all these nerfs basically did nothing. My gun just isn't as cool anymore and I have to constantly tell my Mech to come to me, quality of life changes really. /s

[Kodama.6453]

17 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Its a bit like the Mirage 2nd dodge I highly doupt it will ever change back at least during this expansion cycle. 

As said, no need to completely change it back. But they should still follow up the changes, because they just went way overboard with them.

If you advertise a change as neutral in PvE and then you screw up and make it a nerf in that environment instead, you should follow that up to bring it back to the old damage value as has been your intention.

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

As said, no need to completely change it back. But they should still follow up the changes, because they just went way overboard with them.

If you advertise a change as neutral in PvE and then you screw up and make it a nerf in that environment instead, you should follow that up to bring it back to the old damage value as has been your intention.

Yeah I don't believe the damage numbered changed much at all, the animation is what nerfed the Rifle. On paper the damage only went down by a few thousand. 

[Kodama.6453]

2 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah I don't believe the damage numbered changed much at all, the animation is what nerfed the Rifle. On paper the damage only went down by a few thousand. 

The power coefficients stayed the same, but they made the animation longer (while stating in their update logs that animation time is supposed to stay the same).

So it was a net loss for it's dps. For dps, damage coefficients isn't everything, cast times also play a big role. So again: they stated that this change is supposed to be neutral and that the cast time is supposed to stay the same, but they messed up and changed the casting time. So they should revisit it again and adjust it to be how they said it was supposed to be in their very own change logs.

Also "damage only went down by a few thousand"? Are you serious? You realise that nerfing damage by a few thousand is actually a big deal, right?

[Infusion.7149]

It's actually far less than "a few thousand" at least if you compare Dec 05 2022 to patch that changes the auto speed.

"The absolute gold standard in low intensity rotations right now. Set all Mech skills on autocast, Deploy Rifle Turret and press Overclock Signet at the start of the fight, then press Overclock Signet off CD. "

Damage log has roughly 16K for the rifle auto. (https://dps.report/0Noo-20221205-200853_golem)
Factoring only rifle auto itself without traits that is ~13.5K.

MicroHard's overview in August when the rifle was sped up was ~16K of which 12.5K was from rifle auto itself (not the sigils or the traits):

https://dps.report/49xI-20220802-213159_golem