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Engi mechanist condi, worth it actually?


Peter.3901

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After a year i joined the game to see every change, and i'm in love with engi mechanist, but after reading the forum (and the last change) i can see that this can change... so, worth it or should i just save my gold to build anything else? thanks everyone.

Edited by Peter.3901
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I have personally only played condi mechanist + full traiblazer set + dual pistols!

It is still very good even after latest nerf, because tankiness and high survivability, good condi dmg etc.

Here is OP build:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PejAoqlxy6YuMYWMWySuRdA-zRJYkRDfZkQCUaB48BIcNwrBE%2FWA-e

(i am personally using Superior rune of the Undead on my armor)

and check Lord Hizen Yt channel, because it was displayed there:

 

 

Edited by Septimus Prime.6743
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4 hours ago, Septimus Prime.6743 said:

I have personally only played condi mechanist + full traiblazer set + dual pistols!

It is still very good even after latest nerf, because tankiness and high survivability, good condi dmg etc.

Here is OP build:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PejAoqlxy6YuMYWMWySuRdA-zRJYkRDfZkQCUaB48BIcNwrBE%2FWA-e

(i am personally using Superior rune of the Undead on my armor)

and check Lord Hizen Yt channel, because it was displayed there:

 

 

Ty, i decided to keep engi, if Arena kill the class i'll just uninstall again, they need to calm down with those nerfs.

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I have played both the standard Rifle mech and Lord Hizens condi pistol-pistol / flamethrower build. 

Question - how can one believe any Mech build which relies on the Mech (including condi builds) is not negatively affected by the mech nerf? It is meant as a serious question. 

After playing with Mechanical Genius (the trait requiring us to be within 360 of the Mech) - it is a nerf of incalculable proportions in real world scenarios. I say incalculable because it depends on how often the Mech is out of range thus losing 50% of its stats. And this will happen despite all best efforts. How often the Mech is out of range is the incalculable part. Bear in mind this not only nerfs damage but survivability as well.

The new Mechanical Genius trait applies to all builds, not just rifle. Thus all builds are affected.

The whole point of the Mechanist changes is to lower the number of Mech players. The devs decided to annoy a large number of players creating this purposely inconvenient nerf/mess of baby sitting the Mech. That still leaves the purposely bad animation/sound changes to the rifle auto attack (which condi builds avoid).

If someone sees a way for condi builds to avoid the Mechanical Genius nerf, please share. I am all ears.

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1 hour ago, Providence.7185 said:

I have played both the standard Rifle mech and Lord Hizens condi pistol-pistol / flamethrower build. 

Question - how can one believe any Mech build which relies on the Mech (including condi builds) is not negatively affected by the mech nerf? It is meant as a serious question. 

After playing with Mechanical Genius (the trait requiring us to be within 360 of the Mech) - it is a nerf of incalculable proportions in real world scenarios. I say incalculable because it depends on how often the Mech is out of range thus losing 50% of its stats. And this will happen despite all best efforts. How often the Mech is out of range is the incalculable part. Bear in mind this not only nerfs damage but survivability as well.

The new Mechanical Genius trait applies to all builds, not just rifle. Thus all builds are affected.

The whole point of the Mechanist changes is to lower the number of Mech players. The devs decided to annoy a large number of players creating this purposely inconvenient nerf/mess of baby sitting the Mech. That still leaves the purposely bad animation/sound changes to the rifle auto attack (which condi builds avoid).

If someone sees a way for condi builds to avoid the Mechanical Genius nerf, please share. I am all ears.

Run mace and keep Sky Circus on manual?  

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Thanks for the suggestion, I will give it a go later but have doubts.

It won't solve the issue that it is impractical to keep the mech in range all the time. Even dodging a mechanic puts the Mech out of range. And they often run off. Once out of range it appears to take up to 3 seconds for it to register as back in range. This hits damage and survivability. How badly depends on the situation.

Fun is subjective. While all pet classes require some attention, this is over the top baby sitting in my opinion. And I said, that is the point. Use a stick to annoy players to move to other specs/classes.

It is a foolish business decision to nerf the most popular classes (today that is Mechanist and Firebrand) simply to achieve class representation parity.  Other games/choices exist and some % of GW2 players will make other choices. Doubly foolish with a new WoW expansion in play. 

 

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7 hours ago, Peter.3901 said:

After a year i joined the game to see every change, and i'm in love with engi mechanist, but after reading the forum (and the last change) i can see that this can change... so, worth it or should i just save my gold to build anything else? thanks everyone.

If you like Mechanist, before investing too heavily I would try it out in the open world and in a meta event. If you are happy with the amount of focus required to try to keep the Mech in range (see the circle on the ground) then build it out fully. 

The Mech is still a good and versatile spec and you may you like the new mechanic. Or not. The Lord Hizen build is solid. You can also find rifle (power oriented builds) to try.

I just wanted to make the point that a condi build won't help much if at all with the nerf. 

Other ranged pet classes to consider that I have found strong include Mirage, Scourge, Elementalist (I have only played Tempest). Ranger is another option as well but I have played little of that class to date.  Hope that helps.

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33 minutes ago, Providence.7185 said:

Thanks for the suggestion, I will give it a go later but have doubts.

It won't solve the issue that it is impractical to keep the mech in range all the time. Even dodging a mechanic puts the Mech out of range. And they often run off. Once out of range it appears to take up to 3 seconds for it to register as back in range.

 

Look, on the side of condition damage, you're meant to fight at a range that is barely outside melee.  And your mech will be a punch-bot. Fight the same target as your mech and Mechanical Genius becomes a non-issue, that debuff even in action doesn't hold much relevance in damage loss. You may suffer from that debuff during the times you have to kite, protect yourself, move around mechanics, etc, but most of the time the other players don't even get to deal damage at all during that time.

Edited by MrForz.1953
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2 hours ago, Providence.7185 said:

t won't solve the issue that it is impractical to keep the mech in range all the time. Even dodging a mechanic puts the Mech out of range. And they often run off. Once out of range it appears to take up to 3 seconds for it to register as back in range. This hits damage and survivability. How badly depends on the situation.

Fun is subjective. While all pet classes require some attention, this is over the top baby sitting in my opinion. And I said, that is the point. Use a stick to annoy players to move to other specs/classes.

 

Or , hear me out , this is crazy idea I know - you just play the game as usual without paying ANY attention to this mechanic ?

It's not like it's required for anything at all and absolutely doesn't matter unless you are tryharding some CM or something.

 

Sure , it's a strange design decision to say the least and probably will be reworked in the next patch.

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8 hours ago, Providence.7185 said:

Thanks for the suggestion, I will give it a go later but have doubts.

It won't solve the issue that it is impractical to keep the mech in range all the time. Even dodging a mechanic puts the Mech out of range. And they often run off. Once out of range it appears to take up to 3 seconds for it to register as back in range. This hits damage and survivability. How badly depends on the situation.

Fun is subjective. While all pet classes require some attention, this is over the top baby sitting in my opinion. And I said, that is the point. Use a stick to annoy players to move to other specs/classes.

It is a foolish business decision to nerf the most popular classes (today that is Mechanist and Firebrand) simply to achieve class representation parity.  Other games/choices exist and some % of GW2 players will make other choices. Doubly foolish with a new WoW expansion in play. 

 

As a ele player i'm tired to play piano classes with 999 limitations and literally no build variety, the same way Arena can mess with good classes they should take a look at the masochist ones.

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15 hours ago, Hindenburg.3415 said:

 

Or , hear me out , this is crazy idea I know - you just play the game as usual without paying ANY attention to this mechanic ?

It's not like it's required for anything at all and absolutely doesn't matter unless you are tryharding some CM or something.

 

Sure , it's a strange design decision to say the least and probably will be reworked in the next patch.

First, I hope this new mess is removed in the future. Any reason why you believe this will be the case? Did the Devs say anything?

Ignore the ironically named Mechanical Genius mechanic? How is that "play the game as usual"? The spec relies heavily on the Mech by design. The new mechanic is not meant to be ignored. It is meant to irritate Mechanist players to move onto other specs. If this move doesn't meet their goal, I shudder to think what the devs will dream up next.

Do you play Mechanist? The Mech losing 50% of its stats for any amount of time is noticeable against anything other than trash mobs - even then that assumes the number of trash mobs is manageable. 

By way of example, I have done the Verdant Brink night event a number of times on Mech. With the recent decrease in players doing the meta, I am at times solo. I can feel the nerf in terms of damage and survivability even with my best efforts to keep the Mech in range. 

I don't mean to suggest Mech is trash. But this patch is a substantial nerf all the way around. And the baby-sit mechanic should meet the devs desire of annoying players away from the spec. Not a smart business decision. 

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21 hours ago, Providence.7185 said:

I have played both the standard Rifle mech and Lord Hizens condi pistol-pistol / flamethrower build. 

Question - how can one believe any Mech build which relies on the Mech (including condi builds) is not negatively affected by the mech nerf? It is meant as a serious question. 

After playing with Mechanical Genius (the trait requiring us to be within 360 of the Mech) - it is a nerf of incalculable proportions in real world scenarios. I say incalculable because it depends on how often the Mech is out of range thus losing 50% of its stats. And this will happen despite all best efforts. How often the Mech is out of range is the incalculable part. Bear in mind this not only nerfs damage but survivability as well.

The new Mechanical Genius trait applies to all builds, not just rifle. Thus all builds are affected.

The whole point of the Mechanist changes is to lower the number of Mech players. The devs decided to annoy a large number of players creating this purposely inconvenient nerf/mess of baby sitting the Mech. That still leaves the purposely bad animation/sound changes to the rifle auto attack (which condi builds avoid).

If someone sees a way for condi builds to avoid the Mechanical Genius nerf, please share. I am all ears.

Well yes it will be affected if the mech drifts beyond the 360 unit distance however...

Lord Hizen's condition build uses Mech Arms: High impact drivers and is always close to the engaged enemy, rather than using Mech arms: Jade Cannon and being at range.

I've been soloing and duoing PoF bounties over the last few nights, sticking close to the enemy and the mech. Didn't lose mechanical genius once. You don't have to bother about positioning the mech because it is right there in the face of the enemy.

It's actually a really fun build to play, dodging, running around the enemy to ensure you don't step into area effect circles etc., thoroughly recommended.

So in answer to your question, to avoid losing the Mechanical genius, use High impact drivers, don't go range.

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On 12/2/2022 at 8:47 PM, Andy.5981 said:

So in answer to your question, to avoid losing the Mechanical genius, use High impact drivers, don't go range.

I am trying a condi mehanist in fractals. The problem is that the mech engages enemies at the other side of the room or the map (in case of battlegrounds for example).

 

I would love to have F1, F2 and F3 order the mech to attack your target even if they are on cooldown and make it forget it's previous target. I don't have a problem moving closer to the mech, I have a problem with the mech wandering off to a very VERY distant mob and even if I press F6, when it's target dies it goes BACK to the previous one across the map!

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On 12/1/2022 at 12:50 PM, Providence.7185 said:

If someone sees a way for condi builds to avoid the Mechanical Genius nerf, please share. I am all ears.

It largely, just does.   The way the Condi and Boon traits work in the center line (X1X and X2X traits) is different than the tooltip suggests.  Instead of inheriting 100% of your Condition Damage and Expertise it instead just uses your stats for it's condition applications.  This is big because if it didn't then the "increase burning duration by 33%" trait wouldn't be inherited for example. Likewise it works that way with Boon Duration instead of inheriting concentration, it wouldn't inherit Boon Duration runes otherwise.  

 

So, losing inherited stats isn't as big of a deal on Condi Mech because all those condi's still get your full stats!  You'll lose some auto attack damage, but whatever, it's really not that big of a deal, much less so than Power. 

 

Now, this change introduced some bugs and traits aren't working properly, melee Mech autos were slowed down randomly, and it's just kind of messy.  So expect some further tweaks and changes coming up whenever they get to fixing all that garbage.  pMech I feel is fine and it's not that big of a deal to just ignore the change.  Of course there's also the Rifle nerf which takes some getting used to as you have to cancel extra animation time to get full value.  cMech is fine, it's been bruised up by collateral damage, but it's still a solidly performing build.  I would like to see it get a little love to heal up those bruises, but again, still solid.

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I wonder about mechanist + condi as well. Since rifle got nerfed back now and the new restriction applies to the mech distance ... playing around with different stuff in PvP. But I only play "for fun" not to optimize stuff.

Since I would like to stay with the rifle (full melee is annoying in PvP/WvW and I do not like the pistols - rifle more fun cause of the CC and immobilize skills) I thought about using condition year just to be able to get more toughness or vitality (since that is possible while power needs all other stats and offers no room for that) ... ended up with  just taking the option that gives still power besides condition damage. The mech trait for condi damage for mech attacks. And then trying to stay in mid range and maybe getting the one or another stack of bleed from the rifle attacks. (Bleed on critical hit trait.)

For PvE stuff I guess I'd use the pistols - did get my solo guild hall when I found someone posting about soloing a guild hall with mecha after EoD got released. Though I used different builds than that person posted - there I think I went with the additional toughness/vitality and fully conditions with almost no power.

The mace actually does not seem too weak in melee. (At least showing higher numbers than the rifle ever showed in the tooltips.) For just staying near the mech ... I wonder if is that bad? Yes there is the confusion - not worth to go condition build for that one alone. And it has other stuff that helps to buff others. But just for open world PvE and when there is no need to stay away from enemies (no super annoying boss where you need to move out of melee range very often) ... mace still feels fun with just power + ignoring the conditions.

The obvious things I guess would be: mech + engineer melee and mech + engineer ranged. One of both options. Where with both in melee on same target ... they should not be distanced too much. With ranged ... depends on the position you attack from. (Both from opposite direction = too far away.) + you might want to have the mech ranged in certain situations where it would be annoying to direct him away always. (If there was a boss that does 1-shot PbAoE attacks.) I always liked to have it mixed - in the past. Mech ranged, engineer melee. Or vice versa. And the mech ranged variant ... more annoying I guess. Unless you somehow get him to use the ranged attack from melee range. Still leaves the option to have the mech melee using a ranged weapon at mid range and staying nearby ... while being able to dodge and stuff. (If there is nothing one-shotting the mech that stays in melee tanking.)

Something similar to the one build posted by Septimus Prime above - was what I used for soloing the guild hall I think. If I remember correctly. Signet with condition AoE attack on active and not too much CD ... is a nice addition to the pistols.

Edited by Luthan.5236
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