World Restructuring Beta #6 Begins Tomorrow

[Chaba.5410]

7 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I would hope you realize as a guild lead that to lead is to do so by example. So what did your guild do the same and different that might help to determine how you all ended up in different spots? Its easy to complain and hard to aid. If you want to lead then help in determining what went wrong and ID what was different in your members actions and do less of the drama. So what details can you provide from your guild? Others saw no guild separations so what happened so ANet debug? Don't just complain, provide information.

Yea, your post probably could've been worded differently.  xD

I want to share that last night a player from another guild hopped into our discord voice chat and started talking a little about the beta.  It sounded like their guild is totally scattered.  Turns out that they had all used the unexplained team selection screen that really should never have been shown to players beforehand.

They thought that our members were misplaced too because they saw some players on different teams.  I had to explain that no one in our guild had reported being placed on a team other than the one they expected.  If they saw someone else from our guild on another team it was because we share some members with other guilds and that person picked a different guild for the beta.  We just used the guild selection button and left everything else alone, specifically telling our players not to touch that team selection.

If anything, this shows that the appearance of "the unexplained new thing" really causes more problems than there would have been without it.  It makes it that much more difficult to determine if the misplacement is due to a real bug or a process not being enforced/followed.  One would have to ask carefully worded questions of each affected player to check off all the possible process failure points to narrow down the cause of the misplacement.  Not easy or fast work.

The other thing this story about an entire guild picking the team selection does is it confirms our own belief, those of us who don't have a guild scattered, that other guilds are also scattered due to misunderstanding the process rather than a bug.  We can't say for sure, but the likelihood of PEBKAC does increase.  I don't know the best way to break through that obstacle other than creating instructional posts with pictures or videos about the process.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[Chaba.5410]

6 hours ago, Saber Clawz.7312 said:

if you know why i have this issue then reply with an appropriate response

No one can help you with determining why you have that issue if the post lacks certain details.

Learn what the process for placement is supposed to be. Then review if that process was followed.  Were the results unexpected?  Go back and double-check that you understood the process, especially recognize and investigate assumptions you have about it.  Question everything.  Eliminate every variable to narrow down to a cause.  Then post with details.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

ONE
I am on Blue team in this beta, I was just now being ported onto the Green team's spawn on my blue team's alpine borderland. I was going to check bay because red is being real sneaky, and suddenly I have become Green team and couldn't get into my own blue bay. 
thought you might want to know about this weird bug

I've been hearing other players report this happening to them too.  This bug has appeared in other beta tests too.  Did you waypoint on the same map or to a different map to get placed back on blue?

[Chaba.5410]

9 hours ago, DKRathalos.9625 said:

I'll run with TLC then, any kagu or kovrick?

Kagu is always with us.  Kovrick is attending MFF this weekend so no.  Next rally Monday night.

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Yea, your post probably could've been worded differently.  xD
 

 

I tell myself that on a regular basis and try where I can to do better.

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, Saber Clawz.7312 said:

to disparage my guild skills is inappropiate to the post, if you wish to degenerate another then find another forum to do this,  if you know why i have this issue then reply with an appropriate response , if not then your silence would be appreciated

 

 

I point out more you provided no details about what you and your guild might be doing differently so that people can help resolve what you are running into or provide more information to ANet so that they can debug. Since you pointed out that your a guild lead I would hope you are in the best position to discuss with your group what everyone was doing and what was different and therefore would have the best means to ID the potential cause and provide the most detail. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Yea, your post probably could've been worded differently.  xD

I want to share that last night a player from another guild hopped into our discord voice chat and started talking a little about the beta.  It sounded like their guild is totally scattered.  Turns out that they had all used the unexplained team selection screen that really should never have been shown to players beforehand.

They thought that our members were misplaced too because they saw some players on different teams.  I had to explain that no one in our guild had reported being placed on a team other than the one they expected.  If they saw someone else from our guild on another team it was because we share some members with other guilds and that person picked a different guild for the beta.  We just used the guild selection button and left everything else alone, specifically telling our players not to touch that team selection.

If anything, this shows that the appearance of "the unexplained new thing" really causes more problems than there would have been without it.  It makes it that much more difficult to determine if the misplacement is due to a real bug or a process not being enforced/followed.  One would have to ask carefully worded questions of each affected player to check off all the possible process failure points to narrow down the cause of the misplacement.  Not easy or fast work.

The other thing this story about an entire guild picking the team selection does is it confirms our own belief, those of us who don't have a guild scattered, that other guilds are also scattered due to misunderstanding the process rather than a bug.  We can't say for sure, but the likelihood of PEBKAC does increase.  I don't know the best way to break through that obstacle other than creating instructional posts with pictures or videos about the process.

 

I know they said that the Teams UI shouldn't impact anything but the more posts and chatting with people this does seems to be the most likely candidate for the issues. Doesn't explain the prior splits though, and its doesn't mean one factor causing the splits wasn't replaced by another either. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Sarpan.9074 said:

That's not a "news section." That's a clean up forum post two days before the start of the beta, one day before we had to select our beta guild. How many players look at the forums daily? And that post came a day after the beta was mentioned as a afterthought in a previous post on the WVW queue problem. It is said that there was a mail sent out about the beta. I didn't get it and less than half my guildies say they got it.
This is a textbook example of dropping the ball. Many players already believe Anet doesn't give a baby cat about WVW and this just pushes that belief forward making it less desirable to stay in a game in which you're an afterthought.

 

The question that was asked was where posted. lol, I am not saying I approve of the way that the communication was done, I am just not a fan of group think either. Its easy to just get online and rage, but that doesn't actually help an issue get resolved. Details and information about what people encountered and what they did or didn't help provide more information so we can see these things fixed and get on to the next stages. Again, I am on the server pride side of this but if we have to get beyond the WR project to get to what's next, lets get them the info they need to get there.

[Kal Durak.2830]

On 12/3/2022 at 4:57 PM, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

no siege and no ppt so definitely not mag (thank the gods). Luckily, I found that the best fighting guild from my sever is here (along with some other familiar names) so I'm basically at home.

oh, and red has shown some numbers so after a boring start, things turned alright.

I've been on two servers with my accounts and both are outstanding matchups... no one really taking a substantial lead. For me, it is a well done Anet.  Sorry guys, I complain, but when matchups (other than the bugs identified), its GG here.

[Kal Durak.2830]

7 hours ago, Graymatter.4723 said:

They have numbers across all timezones

We lucked out, we have it covered almost 24hrs solid.  Anet should make this a requirement to matchmaking IMHO. 

[Xenesis.6389]

6 minutes ago, DtenCfour.3567 said:

I've been on two servers with my accounts and both are outstanding matchups... no one really taking a substantial lead. For me, it is a well done Anet.  Sorry guys, I complain, but when matchups (other than the bugs identified), its GG here.

1 matchup that's still close, but everything is fine!

 

Close for one but for not for eight

[NeHoMaR.9812]

I am in a team with EBG queued 24/7, but no one ever command, just everybody doing whatever they want in a complete chaos. And the rest of maps are empty.

This is obviously not the way I want to play WvW, I want to play with my favorite commanders that are in different guilds I am obviously not able to select, because I am not part of that guilds, I just join that commanders open squads to play, as I did for years.

Additionally, I have an alternative account I rarely play because is old core without mounts, etc, and even being a very low WvW rank, it is in a lot better team with some good action and commanders.

Edited December 4, 2022 by NeHoMaR.9812

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

1 hour ago, NeHoMaR.9812 said:

I am in a team with EBG queued 24/7. And the rest of maps are empty.

you're probably stuck with mag's pugs.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, NeHoMaR.9812 said:

This is obviously not the way I want to play WvW, I want to play with my favorite commanders that are in different guilds I am obviously not able to select, because I am not part of that guilds

Is there something stopping you from joining your favorite commander's guild?  Is that supposed to be the game company's responsibility to manage your socials?

[NeHoMaR.9812]

1 hour ago, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

you're probably stuck with mag's pugs.

I wonder how I ended there if I have nothing to do this mag server or with pugs that play 24/7 without a commander, on purpose.

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Is there something stopping you from joining your favorite commander's guild?  Is that supposed to be the game company's responsibility to manage your socials?

Have you ever played WvW? I mean, do you know there are a lot of pug commanders, that make open squads, and have no intention to invite anyone to theirs private guilds? hundreds of players just log in, and join that type of commanders, for years, is not related to "socials" in any way.

[Chaba.5410]

3 minutes ago, NeHoMaR.9812 said:

Have you ever played WvW? I mean, do you know there are a lot of pug commanders, that make open squads, and have no intention to invite anyone to theirs private guilds? hundreds of players just log in, and join that type of commanders, for years, is not related to "socials" in any way.

Your cynicism about playing WvW aside, I've known plenty of pugmanders over the years that form their own guilds and invite all their usual pug followers to.  In fact, there's a relatively new one that formed on my server within the past three months.  Another one I know no longer pugmands, but the guild he had formed is one my own guild is going to be in an alliance with.  They still invite new players.  Pugmanding is a major recruiting tool.

[NeHoMaR.9812]

1 minute ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Your cynicism about playing WvW aside, I've known plenty of pugmanders over the years that form their own guilds and invite all their usual pug followers to.  In fact, there's a relatively new one that formed on my server within the past three months.  Another one I know no longer pugmands, but the guild he had formed is one my own guild is going to be in an alliance with.  They still invite new players.  Pugmanding is a major recruiting tool.

You can only select one guild for being assigned to a team, so you will be stuck with that "pugmander" only, when I want to play with multiple ones (all of them), of multiple guilds, at multiple time zones, they could also talk different languages. If you are going to join a guild, to play with one single commander or the ones on that single guild, that is not a pug squad anymore, you will be actually playing as a guild.

[thisistheway.4301]

On 12/4/2022 at 3:40 AM, IAmDarthMole.4159 said:

Thanks for screwing over my WvW until the beta is over. After paying for a server transfer, having to wait for that week to finish before I started earning anything, now I can't play with my friends because I didn't click on our guild in time. Really appreciate it GW2 /sarcasm

That's on you.

[thisistheway.4301]

Need to be more patient, I suppose.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Typhoon.8645
Accidentally posted.

[Chaba.5410]

16 hours ago, NeHoMaR.9812 said:

You can only select one guild for being assigned to a team, so you will be stuck with that "pugmander" only, when I want to play with multiple ones (all of them), of multiple guilds, at multiple time zones, they could also talk different languages. If you are going to join a guild, to play with one single commander or the ones on that single guild, that is not a pug squad anymore, you will be actually playing as a guild.

Yes, you can only select one, just as you can only select one server now.  Even though there are plenty of pugmanders across all servers and you can end up playing with those pugmanders with world restructuring, you can still only pick one server.  And if your favorite pugmander leaves your server, you might want to follow him to his new server.  If you don't want to follow, you can play with the others, just like you can after servers are deleted.

The choice of randomness if you don't want to join your favorite pugmander's guild is yours to make, not Anet's.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[NeHoMaR.9812]

29 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

not Anet's

They are beta testing (right now), a system that should automatically assign people to a fair team. My point is very clear, and I am not discussing with you, my purpose is to make ArenaNet read it. Done.

[Chaba.5410]

5 minutes ago, NeHoMaR.9812 said:

They are beta testing (right now), a system that should automatically assign people to a fair team. My point is very clear, and I am not discussing with you, my purpose is to make ArenaNet read it. Done.

I only asked what's your hang up with joining a pugmander's guild.

When you first started playing WvW you didn't know anyone and had to spend some time figuring out who you liked to follow and who you didn't.  And that still happens if pugmanders quit or transfer servers.  Why wouldn't you want to preserve that effort by joining their guild?  Anet could delete servers today and you'd still be in the same position.  What are you going to do about it?

Edited December 5, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[Woop S.7851]

On 12/1/2022 at 12:58 PM, Stonemist.4680 said:

The sixth Beta event for WvW World Restructuring begins tomorrow at the WvW weekly reset

To participate, you must select your preferred WvW guild through the guild menu prior to midnight tonight. 

This Event ends at the next WvW weekly reset on December 9th.

WvW Commanders' log 12.02.2022 (7-11pm PST)
Parent server before reset: Henge of Denravi
Team assigned: Titan's staircase

@7-8pm PST:

• After login, headed directly to Eternal Battlegrounds map
• Surprised Beta was on after entering map
• One commander was already on map (around 15 in squad, with 30 or so outside squad following tag)
• Immediately joined their squad after map entry

1. Observations:

• Server speed vastly improved > Thanks so much for this! 😁
• WvW player skill levels were very diverse (on our side + enemy side)
• PvEers trying WvW 1st time were in high volume
• Map was very packed right after entry (at around 7pm PST)
• Teams from all 3 sides were very balanced in terms of skill level + numbers during clashes/fights
• Only 1-2 Queue was present for Eternal Battlegrounds within this 1 hour
• Queue went up to 5-6 for a minute but disappeared almost immediately
• Time-zone of most players (from all 3 sides) were quite aligned
• Nearing mid-night, player numbers from all 3 sides decreased
• Small fights/engages were present (sometimes with no commanders)
• No night-capping was observed near midnight

2. Two small bugs observed:
A. When a Squad is formed: after clicking 'advertise' on the LFG panel under WvW, it does not seem to display

B. Around 7:30ish pm PST:

• The EBG Commander messaged me privately and assigned me as lead (was not prepared at all: wrong profession/gear etc.)
• Hence tried switching from Warrior to Guardian to lead group, Queue for EBG at this time was around 1-2
• I clicked EBG button & was #1 in Queue, then right away went to Obsidian Sanctum to check on gear, however it was then the Queue became 'stuck' at 1 indefinitely
• I then had to cancel current #1 Queue (while in Obsidian Sanctum) and then re-click EBG map to join, was assigned to Queue #2, but entered EBG map after about 15-seconds

3. User Experience:

• Several great fights + stalemates happened between all 3 sides within this hour at multiple towers + Stone-mist
• No skill lag/activation delays when all 3 big groups clashed
• Due to the surprise beta, it prevented server stacking by large guilds 1-week before (server stacking prevented)
• Very dynamic push & pull fights between the 3 groups
• There was 1 instance where a guild of around 15 appeared on the red enemy side, their skill level was indeed better (more kills due to tank/heal/nuker setup), however fights were still quite balanced
• No scenarios of instant 50-man squad wipes observed
• Stonemist + several towers were captured/lost/then re-captured almost 3-5 times each within these 3 hours
• No supply camp farming was observed @ supply camps by 50-man Zergs
• No spawn exit camping was observed (which previously caused prolonged 1-sided point gain + players on losing side to leave map)
• Frequency of users joining/leaving/re-joining the map was very high even when no commanders were present (need data to verify)
• For EBG: no 'empty map syndrome' due to 1-sided stacking/winning was observed within these 3 hours
• The map chat was very 'clean' where all players tried to work together, some tried to shout out incomings + enemy movement
• No griefing or frustration was present in map-chat within these 3 hours (no 1-sided server stacking/unbalanced choke/spawn camping)
• Most in-squad players stayed quite long in-game, some left due to sleep time, not due to bad user experience
• There were instances where commander/tags had to leave (to sleep), players then roamed to find fights or to defend towers + Stonemist Castle

4. Team Assignment:
@ 11:00pm PST:

• Was curious of team assignments as a small # of players said they could not play with guildies on forums
• Logged-in to a 2nd account which had only 1 guild (account was in-active for 1-week+), system still assigned this account to Titan's staircase which seemed correct
• It's possible occurrence for wrong team assignment for players within the same WvW guild could be caused by 5-guilded users, and/or scenarios where the 'timings' of active guild selection (depending on the user themselves) throughout the week created variances before the beta, another possible variable is timezone (need more testing/data to verify)

5. Comments/Suggestions (UI related):

• Need enhanced 'markers' with numbers (aside from just shapes), this way commanders can divide the squad into 1,2...9 to spread out & cap behind enemy lines as strategy, currently can't do this as all players stick with 1-Tag
• User behavior anomaly: 1/2 of players did not want to join squad even when invited, but they stayed with tag during big fights silently & followed instructions based on map chat text
• During big fights, our squad of around 25 had around 8 rangers 1 time, tried to coordinate with others to setup a 'sniper/ranger' sub-group #2 within the squad, it proved quite difficult
• In-squad coloring made it still hard to visually see who is in sub-group 1, 2, 3 etc. (for boon-sharing)
• Tooltip or prompt windows/popups to encourage joining squads + group play? Currently have to manually select each player and manually ask them to join squad (right-mouse click > invite to squad)
• During the beta weekends, at times there's large # of players on both sides, but no commander present; Since the PvE 5-party + 10-man squad system is already present, can it be enhanced for WvW where some type of 'auto-group' feature can kick-in when 'no-commander' is present?
• This would encourage dynamic small-scale team play where users of similar play styles will be encouraged to form guilds/alliances? (For example, my current guildies all joined together when we roamed in small groups of 2-5, or when there were 2-commanders helping each-other on map - very rare occurrence)
• In small-scale groups (5-10), users naturally try to adjust to each others' playstyle & band together
• Another possibility would be to have the NPC Commander Siegerazor somehow activate as a 'auto-tag'? Currently the NPC only activates when keep is captured, and players have to feed it gold
• Overall a very positive experience during the beta!

12.03.2022 (Saturday afternoons):

• Jumped in EBG to take a quick look
• Players still very active on map (vets + new players alike), still active & crowded
• Though at times there's missing commanders + tags on map
• Captures were still balanced with constant fights at Stonemist + Towers
• More data needed...to verify🔍
• Keep up the great work! Hope above helps! 👍

Edited December 5, 2022 by Woop S.7851
spacing fix + typo fix

[Believe.4251]

  

WvW Pug' log (new player since 2-3 months) 12.05.2022 (4 pm-10 pm CET)
Parent server before reset: Fissure of Woe
Team assigned: Grenth's Door

@4pm CET:

Login , head to EB, 0 commander , outnumbered, we don't even control spawn valley.
Head to Desert borderland , outnumbered , have only spawn controlled, no commander.
Head to other 2 borders , outnumbered, no commander.
@5pm CET:

Login , head to EB, 0 commander , outnumbered, we don't even control spawn valley.
Head to Desert borderland , outnumbered , have only spawn controlled, no commander.
Head to other 2 borders , outnumbered, no commander.
@6pm CET:

Login , head to EB, 0 commander , outnumbered, we don't even control spawn valley.
Head to Desert borderland , outnumbered , have only spawn controlled, no commander.
Head to other 2 borders , outnumbered, no commander.
@7pm CET:
Login , head to EB, 0 commander , outnumbered, we don't even control spawn valley.
Head to Desert borderland , outnumbered , have only spawn controlled, no commander.
Head to other 2 borders , outnumbered, no commander.
@8pm CET:
Login , head to EB, 0 commander , outnumbered, WE NOW CONTROL THE VALLEY RIGHT OUT OF SPAWN!!.
Head to Desert borderland , outnumbered , have only spawn controlled, no commander.
Head to other 2 borders , outnumbered, no commander.
@9pm CET:
Login , head to EB, 0 commander , outnumbered, WE NOW CONTROL THE VALLEY RIGHT OUT OF SPAWN!!.
Head to Desert borderland , outnumbered , have only spawn controlled, no commander.
Head to other 2 borders , outnumbered, no commander.
See guildies saying how they cant wait for Friday, some of them have other accounts so they plan to jump on them.
@9:58 pm CET:
Login , head to EB, 0 commander , outnumbered, WE STILL HAVE THE VALLEY RIGHT OUT OF SPAWN BUT THERE ARE SWORDS 😄 😄!!. Go check it out - See 40 greens, and only 2 allies afking outside chattering "good" things about the WvW beta.
Head to Desert borderland , outnumbered , have only spawn controlled, no commander.
Head to other 2 borders , outnumbered, no commander.

@10:04 pm CET: 
Give up since I only started to play this game for WvW, cry on forum and start Dragonflight.

edit : https://imgur.com/a/6MdV1Sn

Edited December 5, 2022 by Believe.4251
changed EST to CET since i got confused with timezones

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, Believe.4251 said:

  WvW Pug' log (new player since 2-3 months) 12.05.2022 (4 pm-10 pm EST)
Parent server before reset: Fissure of Woe
Team assigned: Grenth's Door

Why do you play during NA Prime hours on an EU server?  EU servers usually have almost no coverage.  Your experience wouldn't be typical.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Chaba.5410