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World Restructuring Beta #6 Begins Tomorrow


Stonemist.4680

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15 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Why do you play during NA Prime hours on an EU server?  EU servers usually have almost no coverage.  Your experience wouldn't be typical.

I play EU prime time, not NA prime time.  E.G Germany/Italy is is like 1 hour behind my local one.
edit : ok I see I thought EST stands for European standart time 😄 the correct one would be CET, i will edit my post. I'm terrible with time zones, sorry.

Edited by Believe.4251
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1 minute ago, Believe.4251 said:

I play EU prime time, not NA prime time.  E.G Germany/Italy is is like 1 hour behind my local one.
edit : ok I see i thought EST stands for European standart time 😄 the correct one would be CET, i will edit my post.

Ah!  Yea, you had put EST, which is NA's Eastern Standard Time, and that caused confusion.  🙂  Thanks for updating.

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Context: unguilded rando trying to do simple dailies in EU (i.e. kill a dolyak, kill a sentry, etc). Assigned to Moogooloo.

Your algorithm for setting up teams is borked and needs a (possibly extensive) rework. The hostility from other teams (who have set up 3-5 man gank teams to defend their spawn camps, siege tossing, BM, one-trick gank builds, spies pulling tactics in keeps & towers, etc.) is absurd. Simply trying to kill a dolyak or flip a sentry has become an exercise in finding 2-5 friendlies to help. Really? I do not need this frustration after a long and frustrating day at work.

I really hope there is progress being made behind the scenes and in not-so-obvious things the players cannot see, because the easy-to-see things actually seem to be regressing.

2 cents submitted while trying to control my rage.

Edited by Adzekul.3104
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29 minutes ago, Adzekul.3104 said:

Context: unguilded rando trying to do simple dailies in EU (i.e. kill a dolyak, kill a sentry, etc). Assigned to Moogooloo.

Your algorithm for setting up teams is borked and needs a (possibly extensive) rework. The hostility from other teams (who have set up 3-5 man gank teams to defend their spawn camps, siege tossing, BM, one-trick gank builds, spies pulling tactics in keeps & towers, etc.) is absurd. Simply trying to kill a dolyak or flip a sentry has become an exercise in finding 2-5 friendlies to help. Really? I do not need this frustration after a long and frustrating day at work.

I really hope there is progress being made behind the scenes and in not-so-obvious things the players cannot see, because the easy-to-see things actually seem to be regressing.

2 cents submitted while trying to control my rage.

Well there is defender daily so kill the dolly bettwen objectives?

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38 minutes ago, Fatal.8693 said:

is there more than one instance of the server or are the names just bugged? been on the same map as friends on a different alliance and we cant fight each other :S

 

The guild roster and contacts list names are all bugged.  Don't trust them.

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On 12/5/2022 at 11:49 AM, NeHoMaR.9812 said:

They are beta testing (right now), a system that should automatically assign people to a fair team. My point is very clear, and I am not discussing with you, my purpose is to make ArenaNet read it. Done.

Join your favorite pugmander's guild. Done.🙄

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On 12/5/2022 at 11:31 AM, Woop S.7851 said:

WvW Commanders' log 12.02.2022 (7-11pm PST)

  • User behavior anomaly: 1/2 of players did not want to join squad even when invited, but they stayed with tag during big fights silently & followed instructions based on map chat text
  • (Forgot to mention) During the 7-11pm PST commanding session (Friday), a player asked me if I can hear them, I mentioned to them I could not, map chat was very quiet
  • At first I thought it was Discord, however it was not (no 'join link' anywhere posted)
  • Yet these players all had different guild tags
  • Server stacking was not present due to 'teams' + short notice of beta
  • Hypothesis: the players were on the 'Steam voice' & may have self-organized voice (need data to verify)

  

On 12/1/2022 at 12:58 PM, Stonemist.4680 said:

To participate, you must select your preferred WvW guild through the guild menu prior to midnight tonight.

This Event ends at the next WvW weekly reset on December 9th.

Scout/Roaming log 12.5.2022 (@9-11pm PST)

Parent server: Henge of Denravi
Team assigned: Titan's Staircase

  • Assumption: Monday nights (weekday) are usually not busy (I was proven wrong)
  • After login, headed directly to Eternal Battlegrounds (EBG) map
  • One commander on map already leading, joined his squad of around 10-15
  • Again, about 15 players not in squad, yet followed group tightly
  • No map queues present, no queue bugs noticed
  • Squad all had mixed tags, map chat extremely quiet
  • Non-squad players were following tightly, also very quiet on map chat
     

1. Experience/Observations:

  • Squad was trying to take stonemist, however enemy were greater in numbers (blue + green both)
  • Several fights at towers + stonemist castle occurred, most were stalemates/losses due to shock combat from portal bombing by enemy (they had several Mesmers)
  • After each loss, map chat was still very clean, commander switched towers & tactics on the go
  • The enemy portal bombers (mainly blue) were all strangers (not the same guild tags), yet looked like they were experimenting + on voice due to fluid group movements
  • Curious, I exited squad to try scouting (using deadeye) & shout-out enemy positions in map chat
  • Several roamers followed me silently without me asking (2-guardians), I sent out party invite, only 1 joined
  • The main commander thanked me for scouting in map chat 15-minutes in before leaving map (border needed help)
  • Enemy (both green & blue) then advanced on all EBG + towers before hitting our keep
  • I shouted in map chat EBG needed help (South keep wall was almost down)
  • Out of nowhere, a 'guild group' (same guild tags) appeared & helped defend keep while trying to save towers
  • They thanked me for scouting as well, I thanked them for coming to help, map chat was still very quite
  • Surprisingly, the guild group were not in a squad at all, yet moved in sync (can only assume they were a 'Steam' group)
  • The enemy Zerg (blue) at this point suddenly broke into 2 groups (not by accident, but coordinated), one attacked our camps, another defending stone-mist castle (green was attacking it in the south), these split enemy groups were 'not' in the same 'guilds' either, yet moved tightly & strategically
  • We were outnumbered even with the helicopter guild (that appeared) trying to help
  • After shouting in public map chat for help again, the previous commander came back to EBG
  • The 'Steam' guild group (assuming they are) on our side instantly vanished as green and blue started to pulled off to compete for stonemist
  • Observed: 2nd day of Beta, Guild groups are already forming/adapting, all evidence points to this happening on Steam (which have social/voice tools in place already), for the guild group that dropped in to help, it's likely these users have not purchased a 'commander tag' yet (expensive), but somehow got together as a WvW guild during this beta
  • Steam (if Big data is available) could act as an alternative for more analysis of social adoption + formation of guilds/alliances in the long run (provided these metrics exist from their analytics)
     

2. Bug spotted:

  • During one of the attacks on Ogrewatch tower, near Orgath Uplands, a enemy user was able to glitch through the barricade then quickly retreat back through it when low on health
  • There might be a map wall opening glitch (@ the barricade), screenshot of location where this happened: https://i.imgur.com/QCrQURv.png


3. User Experience:

  • Once again, very dynamic fights (very fun), no 1-sided winning or losing observed: similar experience to Friday night
  • No server Zergs spawn camping
  • No skill delays nor server lag
  • No supply camp farming observed
  • No spawn exit camping observed
  • No griefing or frustration in map-chat (even when we were losing multiple fights - due to enemy portal bombings)


4. Analysis:

  • Smaller group-up (whether in steam or in-game guilds) enabled tighter play + clean map chat, stakes are not as high even if outnumbered or losing, the 'group/guild/alliance' identity seems to preserve cohesion even when losing fights
  • The 'Server' Zerg morale was not affected (no server identity due to 'teams' & guilds)
  • Previously established (Server) Zerg hierarchy/identity (1-queen, rest soldiers) plays on 1-voice channel results in much higher stakes for losing, especially when that form of hierarchy keeps losing in a prolonged 3-4 hour fight
  • Example: Assume this hierarchy wins after reset once, server morale on Friday is high
  • Assume: Throughout the week, the Zerg keeps losing towers + fights before next reset
  • Add variable: Time (night-capping, off hours, commanders on vacation, work, school etc.)
  • Add variable: Population fluctuations (joining/leaving match, new players coming and going, guilds forming and disbanding)
  • As the enemy side (also 1-Zerg hierarchy) keeps winning in that week, the Zerg structure (identity) starts to deteriorate exponentially while restricting small-scale dynamic playstyles
  • The 'normal distribution' of user expectations (regular bell curve) will start to invert: https://www.simplypsychology.org/bell-curve.jpg?ezimgfmt=ng%3Awebp%2Fngcb36%2Frs%3Adevice%2Frscb36-2
  • Result: Initial fun due to win after server reset following 'losses throughout the week' leads to -> mass user frustration (balance between 'challenge' vs 'fun' deteriorates) -> points start to tilt to the winning 1-Zerg Server -> causing user insurrection (on map chat) against the queen (commander) representing 'server identity' -> leading to player exodus of map -> exacerbating the loss (even less players on map) -> map empties out -> Stonemist + all towers are now 1-color -> players find alternatives to 'win' -> stack to winning server before 1-week reset -> rinse/repeat
     

*Note: I've not experienced any 1-sided winning fights thus far (as some others mentioned on forums) during this beta, above is only 1-scenario & might not represent experiences by others, please share your experiences (parent server, team assigned, time of day, descriptions). Hope above helps the devs! Looking forward to Alliances! Thanks for all the hard work! 👍👍

Edited by Woop S.7851
formatting/typo fixes
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From what I see, nobody care about winning anymore when playing the alliance BETA. Therefore when a keep or a tower get attacked, nobody come to defend. So why would someone waste ressource upgrading tower and keep.

 

I really dont think the Alliance mode will make WvW better, I suspect its gona make it worst.

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3 minutes ago, MasterDeere.3417 said:

From what I see, nobody care about winning anymore when playing the alliance BETA. Therefore when a keep or a tower get attacked, nobody come to defend. So why would someone waste ressource upgrading tower and keep.

 

I really dont think the Alliance mode will make WvW better, I suspect its gona make it worst.

Well this is mostly due to us returning to standard match ups today. No carry over essentially. Unless they do a multi-week beta or just implement it (eventually) it's hard to say how it will change player behavior realistically.

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1 hour ago, MasterDeere.3417 said:

From what I see, nobody care about winning anymore when playing the alliance BETA. Therefore when a keep or a tower get attacked, nobody come to defend. So why would someone waste ressource upgrading tower and keep.

 

I really dont think the Alliance mode will make WvW better, I suspect its gona make it worst.

It's almost as if the former could have something to do with the latter.

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On 12/6/2022 at 5:23 PM, Adzekul.3104 said:

Context: unguilded rando trying to do simple dailies in EU (i.e. kill a dolyak, kill a sentry, etc). Assigned to Moogooloo.

Your algorithm for setting up teams is borked and needs a (possibly extensive) rework. The hostility from other teams (who have set up 3-5 man gank teams to defend their spawn camps, siege tossing, BM, one-trick gank builds, spies pulling tactics in keeps & towers, etc.) is absurd. Simply trying to kill a dolyak or flip a sentry has become an exercise in finding 2-5 friendlies to help. Really? I do not need this frustration after a long and frustrating day at work.

I really hope there is progress being made behind the scenes and in not-so-obvious things the players cannot see, because the easy-to-see things actually seem to be regressing.

2 cents submitted while trying to control my rage.

It's ok you got teamed with most Maguuma folks which are some of the most passive aggressive tryhard-joke cringe pulling you have in WvW, at least you didn't end up with SoS that's just toxic.
Anyway what I've learnt through the years is to filter out the other voices and let it become just white noise, you'll find it easier to get a better experience - and maybe also find good guys to do your kind of stuff.
Cheers 🍻 

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23 hours ago, Ashturen.2561 said:

thank god the Beta will be over tonight at reset , this was the worst beta ever !! split guilds in half or even more .. our guild was on 3 server.
when u press -b- for wvw -menue it showed ppl on maps they couldnt enter , they were on a completely diff. map ect ect ... 🤑

Gotta check which guild you checkmarked for the beta, even tho they said they had problems with the server assignation, mine was just on point.
Let's see what happens on the final release, soonTM.

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On 12/10/2022 at 11:53 AM, Typhoon.8645 said:

Gotta check which guild you checkmarked for the beta, even tho they said they had problems with the server assignation, mine was just on point.
Let's see what happens on the final release, soonTM.

dont worry, I know for sure , that I had my main wvw-guild checked on both accounts. 

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On 12/10/2022 at 11:51 AM, Typhoon.8645 said:

Well too bad for you and your sarcasm, that was the last one. Looking forward to the final release soon, cause this beta was quite a success imo.

how do they pay u to write such positive stuff here ? I know not even on in the game that said it was even near "ok" . They all said it was the worst beta they ever had . 

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On 12/13/2022 at 10:44 AM, Ashturen.2561 said:

how do they pay u to write such positive stuff here ? I know not even on in the game that said it was even near "ok" . They all said it was the worst beta they ever had . 

Not for everyone in Maguumaloo, it feels good smashing everyone without a real fight /s
Sarcasm aside, I can only wish for this game to get better keeping my hopes up cause all the other MMOs are junk compared anyway and I don't have time to invest on top of my job to learn what it takes to enjoy junk games, none at all.

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On 12/1/2022 at 1:24 PM, Stonemist.4680 said:

Selecting a Team won't have any impact unless you have not played WvW recently. Even then, it won't apply until after the beta begins and any selection made prior to that will be discarded. We found this issue yesterday be decided not to delay the beta for it. Work is being done to prevent it from being a problem going forward.

*Player log 12.23,2022*
Time: 11:50am - 12:10pm Noon PST
Parent server: Henge of Denravi
Map: Eternal Battlegrounds

Observations:

  • Entered EBG map around noon time
  • Blue tag NPC Commander Siegerazor activated at spawn (not moving - need gold)
  • Red (Maguuma server players) spawn camping exit
  • Entire EBG map was 'Red' (Maguma)
  • Map chat displayed frustration from players
  • Greenside players exited map 1-by-1 (empty map syndrome observed)
  • Low population also likely due to Wintersday events
  • Was unable to play with players in same guild from WvW Beta (they're on another server)
  • Spying (alt-accounts) seems to be present after observing map chat + user movements & map hopping
  • Further data needed to verify duration of this scenario & how long it's been happening

Assessment:
WvW Restructure + Alliances urgently needed
(before it spreads to Steam) 😮🙏
Screenshots of EBG map @12:10pm PST (before log-out):
https://i.imgur.com/JRQMKi7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vzDBUGH.jpg

Edited by Woop S.7851
typo/format edit
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