Condition damage ( wvw and pvp )

[Sansar.1302]

It seams fine in pvp but in wvw they are so overtuned , today ( with cleansing sigil and multiple cleanses from class ) 

fougth a messmer(Virtuoso)  that per sec outdamaged my fullzerker with only two conditions torment and confusion, where cleaning as fast as possible due to cds 

but confusion where there permament.

went back into loggs and it  where about 7.5k dmg per sec from condis and a little power dmg on top of that.

 

 

Some guardian classes too can "burst" harder with burn than i can with power dmg on zerker stats.

 

 

This is not balanced at all as far as i can tell

[Moradorin.6217]

4 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

It seams fine in pvp but in wvw they are so overtuned , today ( with cleansing sigil and multiple cleanses from class ) 

fougth a messmer(Virtuoso)  that per sec outdamaged my fullzerker with only two conditions torment and confusion, where cleaning as fast as possible due to cds 

but confusion where there permament.

went back into loggs and it  where about 7.5k dmg per sec from condis and a little power dmg on top of that.

 

 

Some guardian classes too can "burst" harder with burn than i can with power dmg on zerker stats.

 

 

This is not balanced at all as far as i can tell

LOL no idea, but 7500 dmg from confusion would be on skill activation and would be like 25 stacks so duration would be very short and the burst window (when you shouldnt use a skill) would be very short. It sounds like its your timing + awareness or maybe lag.

 

In other words, if you are using a high attack rate weapon ur gona be toast and you need to learn to stow your weapons or somthing to stop attacks when you have that much confusion on you. Confusion doesnt do jack kitten for damage unless you screw up and keep activating skills.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[Sansar.1302]

2 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

LOL no idea, but 7500 dmg from confusion would be on skill activation and would be like 25 stacks so duration would be very short and the burst window (when you shouldnt use a skill) would be very short. It sounds like its your timing + awareness or maybe lag.

 

In other words, if you are using a high attack rate weapon ur gona be toast and you need to learn to stow your weapons or somthing to stop attacks when you have that much confusion on you. Confusion doesnt do jack kitten for damage unless you screw up and keep activating skills.

Confusion where only part of it and how should one fight back when it is Imposible to cleanse it due to it is way easier to reaply it than to cleanse 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Sansar.1302

[Buran.3796]

   Dueling in WvW a Virtuoso with my Vindi He was able to kill me in a burst of less than 5 seconds, but I was also able to do the same.

My first advice to power WvW roaming players would be to not run fully berserker builds: a 4 stat gear as Marauder offers a 8% stat increase, and some builds are already able to cap crit without running full Zerk or Assasin thanx to the use of trait synergies, runes and sigils. Then the second advice would be to play reactively instead of memorizing burst combos: the best way to prevent damage is oftenly dodging, blocking, using blind or other skills to prevent the pressure.

   Being said that, some classes and specs are better built for WvW, and things as access to stealth are huge in WvW. Is just the way it is, and we most deal with it...

[Sansar.1302]

8 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Dueling in WvW a Virtuoso with my Vindi He was able to kill me in a burst of less than 5 seconds, but I was also able to do the same.

My first advice to power WvW roaming players would be to not run fully berserker builds: a 4 stat gear as Marauder offers a 8% stat increase, and some builds are already able to cap crit without running full Zerk or Assasin thanx to the use of trait synergies, runes and sigils. Then the second advice would be to play reactively instead of memorizing burst combos: the best way to prevent damage is oftenly dodging, blocking, using blind or other skills to prevent the pressure.

   Being said that, some classes and specs are better built for WvW, and things as access to stealth are huge in WvW. Is just the way it is, and we most deal with it...

No problem with that, what i do have a problem with is these tanky but high condi dmg builds, they are problematic and often quite easy to play in my opinion.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

Mesmer and Thief are classes designed with PvP in mind. Both of them have tools extremely annoying to deal with in form of mobility stealth and burst. 

 

Against Virtuoso, the only thing you can do is save your condi cleanse for the bust and have some reflect / use terrain to block the projectile. Outside of that, I suppose you can just hope the opponent sucks.

[Mell.4873]

21 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

It seams fine in pvp but in wvw they are so overtuned , today ( with cleansing sigil and multiple cleanses from class ) 

fougth a messmer(Virtuoso)  that per sec outdamaged my fullzerker with only two conditions torment and confusion, where cleaning as fast as possible due to cds 

but confusion where there permament.

went back into loggs and it  where about 7.5k dmg per sec from condis and a little power dmg on top of that.

 

 

Some guardian classes too can "burst" harder with burn than i can with power dmg on zerker stats.

 

 

This is not balanced at all as far as i can tell

I'm confused are you saying conditions are to strong or to weak? 

[Sansar.1302]

5 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I'm confused are you saying conditions are to strong or to weak? 

If you read the post it should be apparent what I think

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Sansar.1302 said:

If you read the post it should be apparent what I think

You do realize that Mesmer have multiple ways to reset there cooldowns so you normally just need to bide your time. Saying that, the cleansing you listed should cover this most of the time. 

Mesmer doesn't have that many ways to apply confusion/torment consistently so unless you are talking about Bleed the condition damage is very weak in PvP. 

This is doubly true for WvW where almost every group has multiple AoE cleanses. I think you just go out played, the condition damage has nothing to do with it. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Sansar.1302]

13 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

You do realize that Mesmer have multiple ways to reset there cooldowns so you normally just need to bide your time. Saying that, the cleansing you listed should cover this most of the time. 

Mesmer doesn't have that many ways to apply confusion/torment consistently so unless you are talking about Bleed the condition damage is very weak in PvP. 

This is doubly true for WvW where almost every group has multiple AoE cleanses. I think you just go out played, the condition damage has nothing to do with it. 

Out played or not.

The condi dmg where way to hig, condi should not  burst harder than power.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Sansar.1302
bad spelling

[Dadnir.5038]

5 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Out played or not.

The condi dmg where way to hig, condi should not  burst harder than power.

There are ways to reduce incoming condition damages. You either embrace these ways or accept that condition damages counter your build. Be it:

- Cleanse (active or passive)

- Resolution

- Traits and skills that reduce condition damage

- Runesets, traits and skills that reduce incoming condition duration.

- Block, reflect, invuln, blind, evade, dodge or interrupt the virtuoso's attacks that apply those conditions (I mean, there is both cast time and obvious enough animation to those skills)

Condi don't burst harder than strike damage. If you reach a point where condition damage burst you to death it just mean that a strike damage build would have bursted you to death as well.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

If we include roaming, havoc and zerging... like 90% run either meta minstrel, meta celestial or meta marauder specs. The remaining 10% is those condition specs that exponentially loose effectivness as soon as you go over 1v1 encounters - coincidentally often full power roflstomp specs that require them to kite while damage ticks.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Dawdler.8521

[Zaret.1450]

What id poit out is, wich build were you using? a roaming build, a zerg build, a self made build?

Most virtuosos and thiefs will be roaming builds designet to be tiring to fight against, portals, blinks, invis, and tons of bursts, so it usually goes, plop wild virtu appeared! it burst you, fight a bit, and if you counter or dont die fast they just go inv or tp out of range, then repeat till you're dead, if you pair it with a condi confusion and torment build if you stay still and use a couple of skills you just blow up in bits yourself.

For zerg fights condis are much much less impactfull because eles vindis and other classes cleanse a lot, so if your zerg gets killed by condis maybe youre outnumbered, your healers maybe had some problem, or maybe there is a new op build, but those builds would be soon known to all.

If you were roaming look at your build, if zerging look at your zerg builds and what could have happened.

[Mell.4873]

9 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Out played or not.

The condi dmg where way to hig, condi should not  burst harder than power.

You can very easily anticipate which shatter especially a Virtuoso is using and counter it. Confusion only realy happens with Scepter 2 and F2 shatter. They are very easy to spot and you can just use a block or cleanse it when you see it. 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

13 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Out played or not.

The condi dmg where way to hig, condi should not  burst harder than power.

It doesn't.  Conditions require many stacks to be applied before they begin to deal as much damage as power and they can be cleansed.  If you took 7.5k damage from confusion you killed yourself by performing actions while you had 20+ stacks applied to you.  Next time pay attention.  If you see a large number of confusion stacks, just wait a few seconds and most of those stacks should fall off.

[Sansar.1302]

So mutch false things ppl say here to defend condi dmg 😞

so many think  they know without actualy knowing 

 

 

It whould not fall off afer a few seconds as they can reaply it quite fast

 

And no if you read it where 7.5 k dmg from condi, mainly torrment and confusion, and it where applied almost instant as figth lasted sub 4 sec.

 

Condi is not good in large scale due to exesive cleansing that should be cut down, but in smal scale it is the best and it is very unfun to play vs.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Sansar.1302

[Sansar.1302]

21 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said:

What id poit out is, wich build were you using? a roaming build, a zerg build, a self made build?

Most virtuosos and thiefs will be roaming builds designet to be tiring to fight against, portals, blinks, invis, and tons of bursts, so it usually goes, plop wild virtu appeared! it burst you, fight a bit, and if you counter or dont die fast they just go inv or tp out of range, then repeat till you're dead, if you pair it with a condi confusion and torment build if you stay still and use a couple of skills you just blow up in bits yourself.

For zerg fights condis are much much less impactfull because eles vindis and other classes cleanse a lot, so if your zerg gets killed by condis maybe youre outnumbered, your healers maybe had some problem, or maybe there is a new op build, but those builds would be soon known to all.

If you were roaming look at your build, if zerging look at your zerg builds and what could have happened.

Using a roaming build with clensing sigils , have traited cleanse on heal  (2 condi cleansed) same on ult  (clenanse 2 condi)

and both my stun breakers remove 2 conditions as well.

 

Been solo roaming for 10 years now and never have condi been so powerful.

[Dadnir.5038]

4 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

So mutch false things ppl say here to defend condi dmg 😞

What false thing exactly?

[Mell.4873]

12 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Using a roaming build with clensing sigils , have traited cleanse on heal  (2 condi cleansed) same on ult  (clenanse 2 condi)

and both my stun breakers remove 2 conditions as well.

 

Been solo roaming for 10 years now and never have condi been so powerful.

Oh you must be a Ranger with this description. 

Well first you have a an amazing Soulbeast heal that can literally eat conditions. 

Second is you have Druid and even though it got a condi cleanse nerf to a trait it is far better now, at more consistent cleansing than almost any elite in the game. 

 

This isn't rocket science play something the counters condition damage and then they can literally do nothing. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Lysico.4906]

Learn to play issue for the OP.       Nothing more

[Sansar.1302]

9 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Oh you must be a Ranger with this description. 

Well first you have a an amazing Soulbeast heal that can literally eat conditions. 

Second is you have Druid and even though it got a condi cleanse nerf to a trait it is far better now, at more consistent cleansing than almost any elite in the game. 

 

This isn't rocket science play something the counters condition damage and then they can literally do nothing. 

Simply find this untrue, Druid is good vs conditions true but I don't play Druid and the soul beast heal is very bad if you play vs power so it is not possible to take

[the krytan assassin.9235]

Dunno about PvP balance, but for WvW id say condis are in a decent spot atm. If anything, they're abit weak in zergfights atm. 

For small scale roaming it can be decent if you can combo it with movement impairing effects. 

For solo roaming it mostly depends what kind of build you're fighting against. There are all sorts of broken roaming builds that are only balanced because the enemies use broken builds aswell. Most builds are naturally built to counter a couple of these builds, while being relatively weak to others. Nerfing condi dps for WvW roaming will only result in some of the WvW roam builds becoming even more broken then they already were. 

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Simply find this untrue, Druid is good vs conditions true but I don't play Druid and the soul beast heal is very bad if you play vs power so it is not possible to take

Well what do you want, if you are not willing to counter the condition damage with an equally powerful heal what's the point in this topic. 

Ultimately don't play play Soulbeast in roaming, play Mesmer

I also use Ranger in WvW roaming but I use every elite I have to counter anything I come up against. It is very easy to leave a fight and change builds on the fly. I have an infamous duel Longbow Soulbeast just for sieging it is so niche I change it as soon as I leave any Fort siege. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Sahne.6950]

On 12/3/2022 at 3:16 AM, Sansar.1302 said:

It seams fine in pvp but in wvw they are so overtuned , today ( with cleansing sigil and multiple cleanses from class ) 

fougth a messmer(Virtuoso)  that per sec outdamaged my fullzerker with only two conditions torment and confusion, where cleaning as fast as possible due to cds 

but confusion where there permament.

went back into loggs and it  where about 7.5k dmg per sec from condis and a little power dmg on top of that.

 

 

Some guardian classes too can "burst" harder with burn than i can with power dmg on zerker stats.

 

 

This is not balanced at all as far as i can tell

sounds like someone hasnt fully grasped what confusion does yet...

 

Sansar... just play cele and call it a day... all your problems will vanish.  You are literally not complaining about condition damage...   the "imbalance" your experiencing is, you trying to 1v1 someone that is running celestial while you are playing power.  

If you dont outskill the opponent, there simply is no way for a powerbuild to win a fair fight against a cele build...

Edited December 6, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Zaret.1450]

On 12/5/2022 at 9:31 AM, Sansar.1302 said:

Using a roaming build with clensing sigils , have traited cleanse on heal  (2 condi cleansed) same on ult  (clenanse 2 condi)

and both my stun breakers remove 2 conditions as well.

 

Been solo roaming for 10 years now and never have condi been so powerful.

condi is very powerfull both in pve and in small scale fights, ma8nly because some condis burst a lot against players, burn confu, and torment, and because its impossible to cleanse forever, but in big scale fights condi is almost useless as there sre tons of cleanses in area, light fields etc, so it is in a difficult position to balance