What is your favourite villain/s?

[EMPI.4013]

Bangar is my favorite personally. Love the charr above all theme. Although was he truly a villain. He was a leader who's mind became clouded trying to do what he delusionally thought was best for his species.

Scarlet I like mainly for the clockwork army.

Joko was the most entertaining, as well as successful.

Balthazar was done dirty and not a villain imo. We killed him because he was trying to kill a dragon, when killing dragons was bad. Then like a year later we go back to killing dragons WTF. Yes Aurene filters the magic but its just a cruel twist of story. He was only trying to help in his own way. While the other gods abandoned us to die.

Justice for Balthazar!

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 12/20/2022 at 9:29 AM, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

and i mean conscious action, because destroyers are what they do, they aren't organised until braham try to force his will onto the dragon

Well that's objectively false. All dragon champions organized minions, not just Braham. Be it in GW1, Edge of Destiny, or the core GW2 game. The Great Destroyer, the Destroyer of Life, the Destroyer Queen, the Megadestroyer, and the twinned destroyer wyverns of Draconis Mons - though it's mostly the former three that showed movement. Even in the DRMs, despite the NPCs repeatedly calling the destroyers mindless, they showed active tactics and specified targetting - Taimi calls them mindless because they didn't act as she expected by going for the city when injured! Instead, it retreated. And for that "[it] definitely [does] not have reason"...
And Primordus also had active actions of his own doing even in GW2 - though it was mainly going to the Ring of Fire islands, but before GW2 he personally attacked some (if not all) of the asuran underground cities as depicted in the Vigil intro cinematic.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

On 12/23/2022 at 2:48 AM, EMPI.4013 said:

He was only trying to help in his own way. While the other gods abandoned us to die.

Well no, Balthazar wasn't trying to help anyone but himself. He even point blank states he doesn't care if Tyria is destroyed, all he wants is power so he can get revenge on the gods. That isn't helping, that isn't even TRYING to help. That's just deliberately trying to make things worse for personal gain.

[Pyriel.4370]

Caudecus because he isn’t redeemable. He’s easy to dislike and makes a really good egotistical villain that you just love to take out. The others all had relevant points of view or redeemable qualities but Caudacus was purely a…..well yeh.

[genjonah.1253]

Balthazar started out trying to do the right thing, but his circumstances led to madness that escalated as it went. That being said, he should’ve been doing the actions he was doing (trying to kill Kralkatorrik), just not for the reasons it turned into (and therefore led to unacceptable ‘means’ to that end) 

 

Most entertaining was Joko. Most fearsome was Kralkatorrik. Kralk was exactly the vibe I was hoping for from the elder dragons overall, a living consciousness with wills and desires but also strangely foreign, while also being this force of nature that actually, if only for a moment, multiple times actually had my mind in Tyria facing him, as opposed to being a player at a keyboard. That sprawl across the sky at the end of PoF, and as he crashed into the keep to kill Aurene, both of those things had me right there

 

(Zhaitan was sooooo close but the actual fight against him was so pitiful that it took away from it, similar to Mordremoth)

[nutri.1385]

On 1/25/2023 at 4:38 AM, genjonah.1253 said:

Most entertaining was Joko. Most fearsome was Kralkatorrik. Kralk was exactly the vibe I was hoping for from the elder dragons overall, a living consciousness with wills and desires but also strangely foreign, while also being this force of nature that actually, if only for a moment, multiple times actually had my mind in Tyria facing him, as opposed to being a player at a keyboard. That sprawl across the sky at the end of PoF, and as he crashed into the keep to kill Aurene, both of those things had me right there

That's exactly what I think too. I voted for Joko, I've loved this undead dude since Nightfall and was thrilled to see him come back in PoF. 

Kralk is the most epic though, his presence is evident in the core Tyria from the start, with the brand and the Shatterer as his servant. His story in LW4 is amazing, with the flight sequence almost bringing me to tears every time. I love the messed up relationship he has with Aurene and with Tyria. I genuinely feel sorry for him to some extent. He's one of the not so black/white baddies. 

[Lord Korag.8439]

On 12/19/2022 at 8:36 PM, Arthelad.5418 said:

I dind't put him beacuse he is more of a force of nature than a character. Would have done the same for primordus but he's a fan fav and his actions had bigger consequences. Sorry

All Elder Dragons are forces of nature. Basically they are siblings. Also
PRAISE JOKO

 

PS 

Did you know that originally, lore wise, Primordus was supposed to have entire body and not just a head?

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

I just came here to say: Praise Joko!
He was the tastiest villain.

[KnightofPhoenix.3679]

Having just finished my 2nd playthrough, I thought to give a brief appraisal of each villain.  The order is the same as the poll's and not in order of preference.

Scarlet:

I love Scarlet and how no one knew what her objective was until the very end.  She gave the impression of being chaotic, and in many ways she was, but everything she did was for a purpose.  She was frighteningly intelligent, imaginative, and unpredictable.  And ultimately, very tragic.  Too smart for her own good, she was already anti social from the rest of the Grove (as we can see in Caithe's memory) and this shows how the Pale Tree doesn't have much to offer for someone as intelligent and free spirited.  Driven by insatiable curiosity, she stared into the abyss and the abyss that is her maker looked back.

She had such an impact on our story despite only being in LW1, that when her echo showed up 8-9 years later in-game, it still gave our party pause.  She ranks as one of the best villains.

Mordremoth:

My previous post on this thread put him as number 1 for a range of reasons (how close to success he was, the lasting impact he's had on characters and whole societies, the personal connection to a Sylvari PC, the fun meta with the Mouth of Mordremoth).  I still hold the opinion that he was the best villain and I will add the following reason - I like how Mordremoth's obsession with control is put in opposition with the Pact Commander's ability to inspire loyalty.  Mordremoth cannot conceive of this and erroneously draws parallels between him and the Pact Commander even though they are nothing alike. 

Compared to all Elder Dragons, Mordremoth felt the most alien, with the most interesting design, and in my eyes he was the most threatening of the lot. 

 

Lazarus:

Couldn't care less.  Maybe had I played GW1 I would have thought differently, but that whole bit about finding the real Lazarus is my least favorite part of the entire GW2 story from start to finish.  It felt like a waste of time and a distraction from the main plot.  My least favorite villains from the list. 

 

Caudecus:

I have mixed feelings about this one.  On one hand, Caudecus had the potential to be an interesting portrayal of a reactionary megalomaniac but at the same time, the game very consciously made him absurd, ridiculous and comical in a way that detracts from how dangerous people like him are.  In my eyes, he is just a much inferior version of Bangar.  

 

Balthazar:

I really liked Balthazar and he might actually be my second or third favorite.  His motivation is not particularly interesting but it is perfectly reasonable - he is a capricious god who wanted revenge on the other gods and he couldn't care less about the fate of Tyria because it is all beneath him.  So obsessed he was with revenge that he has forsaken many of the positive qualities he may have had or were attributed to him.  Although he still demonstrates some honor, such as when he spared Rytlock. While it is not shown in the game in the same way as Modremoth vs a Sylvari PC, a human PC from a role playing perspective would be very affected by having to fight her god. 

 

But what I enjoyed the most with Balthazar is how many times we fight/confront him (at least 4 times) and how on 2 occasions he utterly bests us.  The fight where he ambushes the PC and keeps them alive long enough for Aurene to show up, toying with us and demonstrating utter superiority, was just wonderful.  It perfectly drove the point home that we are completely outclassed and I loved it.   Plus the final fight with him alongside Aurene was possibly my favorite fight in the game.  "Still standing." 

 

King Joko:

Joko is a fantastic villain and in contrast with Caudecus, the fact that his megalomania is stretched to an absurdly comical level still doesn't detract from the fact that this is one of the most powerful and dangerous beings that has ever existed in Tyria.  I can't quite point my finger as to why it works on Joko but much less on Caudecus.  Joko was a welcome distraction from the Elder Dragons and the threat he posed was no less severe.  What I enjoyed about him is his sincere delusion that he was saving the world from us meddling with primordial forces that we didn't understand.  That he had a chronic need to have stories about him - maybe there is a deep secret wish that he knows he is a villain but craves to be a hero but is too screwed up in the head to actually be one. 

 

But what was most interesting to me is how the Kingdom he forged, despite everything, was functional and brought order to a devasted land.  Elonian society under Joko was far from ideal, but it was functional and it is understandable that many Elonians were terrified at the prospect of him never coming back.  Coming from a place in the world where a dictator did appear to be the only alternative to utter chaos, I could understand this and even the Order of Shadows didn't like the idea of completely overthrowing him.  That said, I like the optimism around United Elonia surviving and even thriving after his final death. 

 

Kralkatorrik:

Kralkatorrik was the first Elder Dragon that the writers tried to solicit sympathy towards - I am on the camp that welcomes this.  Kralkatorrik was largely incomprehensibly throughout what was imo, the most epic LW season, and the threat he posed surpassed everything that came before, what with threatening to shatter all of reality.  It was only at the very end you realize that this is a creature tormented by unimaginable pain and madness, but with a vestige of sanity left that despite everything still loved his daughter and even his granddaughter. 

 

The whole confrontation with Kralkatorrik in Thunderhead Peak was great and how close we were to complete defeat and Aurene's "death were heart wrenching.  Then pursuing him across the Mists and Dragonfall were all very epic.  But what made it all much more powerful imo, was playing a Herald Pact Commander with Glint's echo - this is not acknowledged by the game sadly, but the roleplaying opportunity was wonderful and it all felt like a tragic family drama coming to a close. 

 

Jormag:

The admittedly rushed ending aside, I really like Jormag.  They had this thing where you knew you shouldn't trust them and yet you almost wanted to.  Until now, it's not clear to me if Jormag was generally a rational dragon or if they were just as mad as all of them.   I enjoyed the almost Cthulhu presence you felt, hearing his voice in the wind, watching the environment freeze in a most unnatural way.  The game did a good job building them up.  Through their whispers alone, they caused a civil war in what was the most powerful military in Tyria and before that, split Norn society in two.  And if it weren't for our intervention, they were shifting the balance of power to their favor vs Primordius, possibly to the point where they could have bested him.

 

Jormag's motivation was actually sympathetic and the fact that Jormag is the only Elder Dragon we actually converse with makes it more so.  Ultimately, Jormag wanted to break free from Primordius and they didn't really care who had to suffer along the way.  They pretend to care by freezing people as opposed to killing them, but they themselves admit they have no idea what will happen to their victims and they don't care.  One could sympathize, but Jormag was consumed by the same madness as their siblings no matter how hard they try to make it look otherwise (perhaps they themselves believed they were sane unlike the other Dragons).   

 

Bangar:

Bangar is interesting as a study on the rise of militarism, nationalism, and let's call it by what it is, fascism.  This is a man who on the face of it sounds reasonable and rational, using rational arguments and on occasion speaking truth.  But at the end of the day and it doesn't take much effort to see, he uses sparkles of truth to mask his megalomania and his urge to conquer and dominate, both as an individual towards the Charr and Charr towards the "lesser" races.  He is hypocritical, arrogant, and deeply self-centered.  But unlike Caudecus,  it is made very clear how dangerous someone like him is and how he almost doomed the Charr, the people he claims to be doing this for, on the pedestal of his own glory-mongering.  But perhaps there is something more to him - maybe he understood that the Charr need an enemy and need war to function and he was happy to give them that war lest they turn on each other.  That could very well co-exist with personal megalomania, but also cowardice at the prospect of peace making someone like him redundant (unlike Smodur who is much more accomplished with peace).   

That being said, unlike Ryland, while Bangar was delusional he still had enough reason to understand that he needed leverage against Jormag and that he refused to have a subservient relationship.  He just did not understand that he is nothing to an Elder Dragon and Jormag disposing of him so casually almost makes you feel pity for him, if he wasn't such a d***.

Ryland:

Ryland is also quite interesting and like Bangar, is almost a study of radicalization but from the perspective of youth.  Ryland is multi-faceted and you could see honorable aspects, supremacist tendencies, and rage.  But ultimately behind all of that, I saw an emptiness in Ryland as a youth full of potential that feels he has no grander purpose, no calling, and a need to prove something that I suspect even he doesn't know what and to whom.  Much like in real life with radical ideologies, someone like Ryland is perfect prey and you can see him being drawn to a Cause simply because it is a Cause.  Contrary to his belief that he is master of his destiny, he is easy prey to the manipulations from Bangar and then from Jormag.

Ryland is interesting because it shows the limits of Charr society, its current militaristic structure and its fahrar especially at times of peace.  What is the purpose and role of someone like Ryland bred for war in an age of peace?  There is tragedy in him and a stark reminder that existential crisis in youth can lead to very dangerous outcomes. 

 

Primordus:

A non-character really and less interesting than Zhaitan.  Not much to say, he's a plot device. 

 

Ankka:

An interesting interpretation of a nihilist with PTSD and general trauma, perhaps even a structural anti-social personality disorder (ASPD).  The voice actress did a great job alternating between a social charming Ankka vs the real bare state Ankka that is empty and wants everything else around her to be empty.  She doesn't leave much room for sympathy, but she's something new and unique in the GW2 villain gallery.  I wish there was more of her and less of the Void but alas.  

 

The void:

There isn't much to talk about here - this is more of a plot device to bring the dragon saga to a close.  Whether the Void is an external eldritch horror or simply the amalgamation of the insanities of the Elder Dragons or both is unclear to me.  Ultimately, I don't mind the use of this Void to end the Dragons and to refocus the story on something else, but there's nothing particularly interesting about the Void.  

 

Zhaitan:

Not on the poll but still worth talking about.  Zhaitan was an effective introduction to the Elder Dragons as forces of nature that were largely incomprehensible to us at least at first glance.  There wasn't much personality or interaction with him, but there were hints of larger intelligence.  Out of all Elder Dragons, Zhaitain's minions were organized in something that resembled a kingdom with hierarchy and commanders.  Out of all Dragons with the exception of Mordremoth, Zhaitan was an effective strategist and his attacks were not random or chaotic like Primordius or Kralkatorrik to a lesser extent.

 

There was higher intelligence in what Zhaitan was doing and while I understand that we couldn't really interact with him during the personal story, it is a shame that later content didn't allow us to explore Zhaitan a bit more.  Then again, higher intelligence aside, he was probably just as magic hungry and insane as the other Dragons but in his own way.  

Edited February 4, 2023 by KnightofPhoenix.3679

[goodberry.8913]

Jormag was probably my favorite. Cool concept that was well executed (until the end).

I liked a few others but none of them get enough screen time. Ankka was really cool, too. Feel like she should have lived until the end as another conduit of the void similar to what Soo-Won became for the DE meta.

Most other villains were just lukewarm or disappointing, but I liked Joko and Scarlet generally. Bangar was cool too.

[Imba.9451]

Going against the tides here, but i really like Lazarus. Yes, he is a cheesy saturday morning cartoon villain, but he was also a Mursaat. And since Mursaat are automatically superior to everything else, he takes the crown, despite the story doing him dirty.

[idpersona.3810]

I'm surprised to see so many people like Ankka. I thought she was pretty 1 note.
I think the writing for most of the game is pretty decent.

I really enjoyed Joko's parts of the story. The dungeons where you find various copies of yourself being tortured was a fun surprise.

[smack.9651]

The Legendary Imbued Shaman of the Volcanic Fractal.

[samsar.9152]

Ankka, Scarlet and from the raids, Dhuum and Qadim. 

[Gibson.4036]

On 12/18/2022 at 1:31 PM, Elorna.5329 said:

Zhaitan not even being listed kind of says it all. 😄 But for me it's Ankka, one of the rare times when a nihilist just works as a villain. She should've been the final boss of the game, and the whole void crap a LW story.

The big tragedy is how abruptly her story ended. It felt like she was just getting good. I voted for her purely on potential, even though I feel it was squandered.

On 12/19/2022 at 8:05 PM, RandomNPC.8714 said:

Hmmm, I see Kudu is missing from the list, and I do not approve. And what about Mad King Thorn, and some of the Sylvari such as Gavin, Bercilak, and Faolain?...

Faolain was not a great villain. Instead of making me feel like I want to punch her, all she did was make me want to punch Caithe.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[TeeracK.3601]

Probably Zinn to be honest. Wish he had found a way to live on as an A.I. and just be a constant force of the world. He was just so Zinnsational...

 

Edit: A.I. Zinn as final boss of world three who had managed to get into SAB some how revealing his mind did survive some how. Good idea???

Edited February 25, 2023 by TeeracK.3601

[ZolracAtrox.2908]

By design Zhaitan and Deimoss (not on list) by far.

By story: 

Jormag and Scarlet (despiste Jormag's end)

By charisma:

Ankka and Scarlet again

By random reasons:

Balthazar - reminds me of Gwyn from Dark Souls xD

Mordremoth and Ensolyss  (not listed) from Battle OST plus edgy dialogues (that works 'cause they are allowed to be edgy by their origin)