Bring back hipshot

[Zebulon.1850]

Bring back hipshot. Losing 12.5% damage for having 2 projectile plus an explosion isn't worth it.

 

All the work they did "buffing" rifle auto only to end up nerfing damage by 12.5% what what it was before they buffed it.

 

Old hipshot did .44 coefficient, new rifle burst and grenade is only .385

[miriforst.1290]

I also wonder what the total attack speed is now compared to the original hip shot. Someone mentioned it being slower than the tripple shot, however i do not know how that in it self relates to hip shot.

[Stalima.5490]

It looks like they just got rid of the center projectile so it has the same animation time but now lower activation time, so you essentially lose damage from no 3rd projectile and you get additional delay between activations making it more or less a devastating change in pvp where the coefficients were not buffed to compensate.

[Piogre.2164]

 

4 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

It looks like they just got rid of the center projectile so it has the same animation time but now lower activation time, so you essentially lose damage from no 3rd projectile and you get additional delay between activations making it more or less a devastating change in pvp where the coefficients were not buffed to compensate.

See my breakdown here

 

Summary:

At the end of hipshot's life, coefficients were .65 in PVE, .44 in WVW/PVP

When Hipshot got changed to Rifle Burst, total PVE coefficient got buffed to 1.  WvW/PVP just had the .44 split up into three pieces with no additional damage, still a total of .44

With this patch, PVE damage coefficients got compensated for the removal of the middle shot; WVW/PVP did not.  I ran some numbers in the linked post to confirm; rifle burst is worse than hip shot was in WVW/PVP.

[Ten.2617]

Hipshot was horrible!

The modernization on rifle was the right direction. 

About damage reduction of auto-attack; it could come with an equivalent damage increment in Bunderbuss  or other skill (example: The Blunderbuss could have a cooldown reduction in trade of an AA nerf).

Edited December 5, 2022 by Ze Ninguem.6708

[Alcatraznc.3869]

I dont want to bring back hipshot, I just want Anet to revert their unecessary nerf

[The Boz.2038]

...I just wish people clearly marked the areas of the game they are talking about when skills with pronounced PvE/PvP splits are the issue.

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

id like the old zigzag hipshot back, good times

[Zzik.5873]

Hipshot was also better animated than this "my first 3D animation student project" that is this weird 2x shot. Reverted the change, bring back the 3x burst animation!

[Kuma.1503]

Just bring the other bullet back and make the recoil animation less janky. That was the real reason three round burst looked off. 

[Sobx.1758]

The 3 bullet verison was a ridiculous machine gun caricature, leave it in the ground.

[SleepyBat.9034]

28 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The 3 bullet verison was a ridiculous machine gun caricature, leave it in the ground.

We're Engineers, why shouldn't we have an assault rifle?

[MrForz.1953]

39 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

We're Engineers, why shouldn't we have an assault rifle?

Why should we.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

37 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

We're Engineers, why shouldn't we have an assault rifle?

 

Because it never was one. It was always a shotgun. Just look at the skills themselves. We shoot pellets/slugs. Also look at the traits. Needing 450 to do most damage points to them being shotguns over assault rifles.

[Sobx.1758]

53 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

We're Engineers, why shouldn't we have an assault rifle?

Because that's not even its theme in any way. Hence the bad caricature is excatly what it was.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Kodama.6453]

17 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

Because it never was one. It was always a shotgun. Just look at the skills themselves. We shoot pellets/slugs. Also look at the traits. Needing 450 to do most damage points to them being shotguns over assault rifles.

Yeah, warrior has always been the assault rifle while we got the shotgun.

On one side, I would like them to lean into the shotgun thematic. On the other side, we already lack reliable ranged damage, so reworking rifle completely into the shotgun at close range will leave us with basically no ranged option.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

8 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Yeah, warrior has always been the assault rifle while we got the shotgun.

On one side, I would like them to lean into the shotgun thematic. On the other side, we already lack reliable ranged damage, so reworking rifle completely into the shotgun at close range will leave us with basically no ranged option.

 

Well, it could still be a shotgun at range to be honest. They would just need to lean more into real world shotguns over video game ones. Video game shotguns are only good up close and personal while in the real world with a good choke you can hit 100 yards out killing stuff with pellets. Not to mention slugs are good for even farther. So, they could lean more into real world shotgun physics and make it ranged, but it is still a shotgun.

[The Boz.2038]

7 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

Well, it could still be a shotgun at range to be honest. They would just need to lean more into real world shotguns over video game ones. Video game shotguns are only good up close and personal while in the real world with a good choke you can hit 100 yards out killing stuff with pellets. Not to mention slugs are good for even farther. So, they could lean more into real world shotgun physics and make it ranged, but it is still a shotgun.

...buff deadeye to 1,800,000 range when?

[Zzik.5873]

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The 3 bullet verison was a ridiculous machine gun caricature, leave it in the ground.

Oky can we get rid of shroud on necro, this is a ridiculous death knight caricature. See were this is going or would you prefer that we have no class and fight with stick instead?

[Obtena.7952]

Imagine ... the WORST thing someone can complain about is an animation on an auto attack. If that's the case, things must be pretty good then. 

[miriforst.1290]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Imagine ... the WORST thing someone can complain about is an animation on an auto attack. If that's the case, things must be pretty good then. 

The pve crowd are complaining about the feel of the skill which isn't critical but isn't entirely negligible either. The people who play pvp or wvw are a tad bit annoyed that the only power weapon on core and the only* ranged power weapon across engineer and all it's elite specializations now deal less dps than a condition based auto attack that applies weakness in a support kit (even when equipped for power), and less damage than the skill did before they had to mess with it in the first place (and hipshot wasn't exactly known to be stellar).

 

And no, this does not mean that tranquilizer dart is in need of a nerf.

 

But yeah, I am a bit baffled that we have gotten 3 elite specs with melee bonk weapons, when the core engineer wasn't exactly known for it's long range sniping. And while I understand that everyone is very angry about the green plague in pve for whatever reason  (plenty to pick from, reasonable and unreasonable alike), I liked the idea of playing the engineer with firearms and not  smashy sticks every once in a while (core or scrapper rifle that is). 

 

*Grenades and mortar are 1) unreliable when used as a ranged weapon 2) technically a utility skill, which further cements some build diversity concerns with regards to skills that aren't grenade kit.

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

9 hours ago, Makuragee.3058 said:

Oky can we get rid of shroud on necro

That's necro rather clear theme from the start, what are you even talking about right now? 🤦‍♂️

[Doggie.3184]

Only if the Engi Rifle AA becomes a wide rectangle AoE hipfire shotgun that shoots a wall of projectiles.

Then Rifle Burst can go to Deadeye's AA instead.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[Zzik.5873]

5 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's necro rather clear theme from the start, what are you even talking about right now? 🤦‍♂️

Engi theme is too, we even have a line saying master of firearm... So yeah... engi is not a scuff warrior, its an engineer. So a machine gun aint a caricature. Not more than shourd is a caricature. Just to be sure I dont want them to remoce shroud it would be stupid beyond. Was just saying that your argument againt a machine gun on engi aint good.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Makuragee.3058

[Zzik.5873]

15 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Imagine ... the WORST thing someone can complain about is an animation on an auto attack. If that's the case, things must be pretty good then. 

Did you know that video game are a visual medium? If you dont care about art in video game, you know you can play card game or boardgame, they even have online site for this. Like it or not, art in video game is way more important than you think, probably even more important than silly stuff like balance in pve. (For pvp is more important true)

Before you do your smart kitten, yes balance is impkrtant, but not a the cost of art and gameplay, wich this last patch was blance at cost of art and gameplay. Thus why people complain. But hey if you want to encourage anet at making their mmo uglier clunkier and less fun, go ahead.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Makuragee.3058