necro/condi clean

[noiwk.2760]

hey Arena Net please  provide Necro/reaper more ways to clean conditions. .  we have close to none condi cleans  yes we have spectral walk but its 1 condition at random every 2 seconds. . it doesnt actually help..  and we are being forced to use consume condition healing skill just for the condi clean .  please  add more condi clean or buff spectral walk condition cleaning ! thank you !

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Then condi cleanse on shroud leave, and also on shroud exit. Then condi transfer on staff 4. It is good.

[noiwk.2760]

9 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Then condi cleanse on shroud leave, and also on shroud exit. Then condi transfer on staff 4. It is good.

shroud leave/exist is the same thing isnt it? and that require you to take blood magic which after all nerfs doesnt really offer much of anything other than the 2 condi clean on leaving shroud  over nerfed trailine..  

staff 4 yes its decent..  but if you change into staff to clean condi you are pretty much stuck in staff for 10 seconds which is ok sometimes but often its not because you cant really dps in staff.    all the nerfs to blood magic and death magic made them not really so good anymore and rather take spite. . but then you basically just have  staff 4 which sometimes you cant use..  cause it require change weapon from axe to staff..  and consume which is also your healing skill which sometimes will be on CD or sometimes cant really use due to the unfair long cast time .     but theres no good dedicated condi clean skill even well of power is pulses of 1 each second if you can even afford to stand for the whole duration ..  and spectral is 1 condition every 2 seconds..  its just unfair and annoyin 

[Morwath.9817]

Typical Reaper build has:

1. Consume Conditions, which is full cleanse on your heal;
2. Putrid Mark (Staff 4) which Transfer up to 3 conditions to your target;
3. Spectral Walk which removes up to 5 conditions, granting up to 20% life force;
4. Unholy Martyr, which consumes up to 3 conditions on leaving shroud while giving you up to extra 21% life force.

IF that is not enough for you, you can always equip Plague Signet, which transfers up to 5 conditions to your target while facing heavy condition team... or pick up Well of Might which converts conditions into boons... There are also serval other options, like transfering conditions to minions etc...

Writing stuff that CC has long cast time is nothing more than L2P issue, when you can instantly disengage with Flesh Wurm/Spectral Walk to cast freely and reset. Same goes for "going staff to transfer is bad because puts you into staff", since after you transfer condis and  fear, then go into shroud if you don't want to camp staff.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Morwath.9817

[noiwk.2760]

10 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

Typical Reaper build has:

1. Consume Conditions, which is full cleanse on your heal;
2. Putrid Mark (Staff 4) which Transfer up to 3 conditions to your target;
3. Spectral Walk which removes up to 5 conditions, granting up to 20% life force;
4. Unholy Martyr, which consumes up to 3 conditions on leaving shroud while giving you up to extra 21% life force.

IF that is not enough for you, you can always equip Plague Signet, which transfers up to 5 conditions to your target while facing heavy condition team... or pick up Well of Might which converts conditions into boons... There are also serval other options, like transfering conditions to minions etc...

thats not 100% true :)  
lets start with the heal. . well while this one is true..  its still a pretty bad heal with long CD of 30 pretty meh healing of 5k(assuming no condition been consumed)  and awful cast time of 11/4 seconds.   and then you are FORCED to use this one. 

2:  staff 4 .   as said before while its great skill it require you to change into utility weapon to clean and then stuck in it for 10 seconds. not always its an option.   and you can not count it as clean condition on demand.  

3:  spectral walk is not good for condition cleaning because it clean 1 condition every 2 seconds and very often it will clean not the condition that hurt you. .  if you fight class that apply more than 1 condition even if its vun +torment like harbringer you cant use spectral walk to actually clean conditions. .  

4 : unholy only clean 2 conditions now . not 3 and only give you 6% life force far far far away from the 21% you mentioned.  its 3% per condition and you can only clean 2 conditions.     and thats also not click and clean ..  you have to leave shroud for it . .   so if you are not in shroud /dont have lfie force cant use it. . or if you are in shroud you have to give up your burst and dmg to clean conditions and then pray that with 2 conditions cleaned you hit the conditions you want to remove  
in many cases you will have 4+ conditions like chill or some poison  along side burning and torment pray that it will clean the right one..    Necro should get a good 5 condition clean like other classes 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by noiwk.2760

[Morwath.9817]

3 minutes ago, noiwk.2760 said:

thats not 100% true 🙂
lets start with the heal. . well while this one is true..  its still a pretty bad heal with long CD of 30 pretty meh healing of 5k(assuming no condition been consumed)  and awful cast time of 11/4 seconds.   and then you are FORCED to use this one. 

2:  staff 4 .   as said before while its great skill it require you to change into utility weapon to clean and then stuck in it for 10 seconds. not always its an option.   and you can not count it as clean condition on demand.  

3:  spectral walk is not good for condition cleaning because it clean 1 condition every 2 seconds and very often it will clean not the condition that hurt you. .  if you fight class that apply more than 1 condition even if its vun +torment like harbringer you cant use spectral walk to actually clean conditions. .  

4 : unholy only clean 2 conditions now . not 3 and only give you 6% life force far far far away from the 21% you mentioned.  its 3% per condition and you can only clean 2 conditions.   

 

1. CC was used by every Necro for ages. Idk why would you complain about it.

2. Not really, you can go Shroud to play around it.

3. You can use it together with other things on the list.

4. You're right here. Somehow I forgot about the nerf.

[Eugchriss.2046]

6 minutes ago, noiwk.2760 said:

Necro should get a good 5 condition clean like other classes 

 

Yeah and necro should also get only 1 hp life bar like other classes...for balance you know

[noiwk.2760]

1 minute ago, Morwath.9817 said:

 

1. CC was used by every Necro for ages. Idk why would you complain about it.

2. Not really, you can go Shroud to play around it.

3. You can use it together with other things on the list.

4. You're right here. Somehow I forgot about the nerf.

1:  its used because we must use it because we dont actually have options :) its our only 5 condi clean skill on the entire class ! (other than harbringer elixir ) 
2:sometimes yes sometimes not. 
3:  nope you cant because there are not good condi clean utility to use or even replace it with.  well of power also only remove 1 condition per pulse which is simply not good enough now days due to how fast people apply conditions.   and thats even only if you can afford to stand in 1 place to get the condi clean from it.      if it didnt require you to stay in the aoe perhaps. . but skills that clean 1 condition are useless .  
4: yup nerf way too heavy makes the whole traitline not so appealing anymore.. better take spite for dmg

[noiwk.2760]

4 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

Yeah and necro should also get only 1 hp life bar like other classes...for balance you know

sure..  if you give us the stability blocks/evades/mobility that other classes have i see no reason why not? 

[Morwath.9817]

1 minute ago, noiwk.2760 said:

1:  its used because we must use it because we dont actually have options 🙂 its our only 5 condi clean skill on the entire class ! (other than harbringer elixir ) 
2:sometimes yes sometimes not. 
3:  nope you cant because there are not good condi clean utility to use or even replace it with.  well of power also only remove 1 condition per pulse which is simply not good enough now days due to how fast people apply conditions.   and thats even only if you can afford to stand in 1 place to get the condi clean from it.      if it didnt require you to stay in the aoe perhaps. . but skills that clean 1 condition are useless .  
4: yup nerf way too heavy makes the whole traitline not so appealing anymore.. better take spite for dmg

1. As I wrote before, you can mitigate cast time with teleport on your other skills.

3. Plague Signet used to be meta once upon a time, as its very potent skill that can't really be dodged or evaded if used correctly as it does transfer multiple (5) conditions instantly while being a stunbreak.

4. It's certainly less good, but Blood still gives nice dps boost on fast hiting abilities even with 1/2 GCD on VP and no GCD on Vampiric with some extra sustain.

[Spellhunter.9675]

8 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

4. It's certainly less good, but Blood still gives nice dps boost on fast hiting abilities even with 1/2 GCD on VP and no GCD on Vampiric with some extra sustain.

Blood magic is awfull. If you see some necro using it right now, you can say he is metabattle child.

[Dadnir.5038]

To think that someone would complain about necromancer not having enough condi cleanse...

Core:

• Heal: consume condition (full cleanse)
• Signet: Plague signet (5 conditions cleansed)
• Well: Well of power (5 conditions cleansed)
• Spectral: Spectral walk (up to 6 conditions cleansed)
• Staff: Putrid mark (3 conditions cleansed)
• Dagger: deathly swarm (3 conditions cleansed per hit)
• Spite: spiteful renewal (1 condition cleansed on using a healing skill)
• Curse: plague sending (2 conditions cleansed on first hit after entering shroud)
• Death magic: Shrouded removal (1 condition cleansed every 3s while in shroud), Necromantic corruption (1 condition cleansed every 10s per minion you have)
• Blood magic: Unholy martyr (2 conditions cleansed upon leaving shroud)
• Soul reaping: Speed of shadow (remove up to 3 movement impairing conditions when entering shroud)

Reaper:

• Shout: "Suffer!" (1 condition cleansed per foe struck)
• Combo whirl into a light field (gravedigger/soul spiral + well of blood)

Scourge:

• Trait: Abrasive grit (1 condition cleanse when gaining barrier from scourge skill/trait)
• Shrd#2: Nefarious favor (1 condition cleansed)

Harbinger:

• Elixir: Elixir of bliss (5 conditions cleansed)

Tips:

• Some runesets can cleanse some condition upon using an elite skill or a healing skill.
• Sigil of purging remove a condition on hit (10s CD)
• Sigil of cleansing remove a condition on weapon swap (9s CD)
• You can choose to reduce condition duration through runeset (up to 25%)
• The trait spiteful spirit (core) let you gain resolution (-33% incoming damage from conditions)
• The trait dark defiance (core) reduce incoming condition damage by 20% when you are under the effect of protection.
• The skill infusing terror (reaper) reduce incoming condition damage by 20% while it's active.
• The skill "rise!" (reaper) reduce incoming condition damage by 33% as well.
• The trait blood as sand (scourge) reduce incoming condition damage by up to 9%.

[noiwk.2760]

7 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Blood magic is awfull. If you see some necro using it right now, you can say he is metabattle child.

exactly that .. i try to explain this to people but none necro player wont accept it..   this entire traitline is completely useless it offers nothing of nothing..   CD on like 30 life shipon  the only trait that someone do anything is the last one that consume conditions but guess what?  nerfed into nothing..   take 5 conditions from allies to you and only consume 2 and give you 3% life force each..   its actually not even good anymore..     any traitline will be better. .     even death magic who also been nerfed to half still more useful. i used death magic on my reaper but Anet decided to delete death magic instead of nerf harbringer directly 

[noiwk.2760]

5 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

To think that someone would complain about necromancer not having enough condi cleanse...

Core:

• Heal: consume condition (full cleanse)
• Signet: Plague signet (5 conditions cleansed)
• Well: Well of power (5 conditions cleansed)
• Spectral: Spectral walk (up to 6 conditions cleansed)
• Staff: Putrid mark (3 conditions cleansed)
• Dagger: deathly swarm (3 conditions cleansed per hit)
• Spite: spiteful renewal (1 condition cleansed on using a healing skill)
• Curse: plague sending (2 conditions cleansed on first hit after entering shroud)
• Death magic: Shrouded removal (1 condition cleansed every 3s while in shroud), Necromantic corruption (1 condition cleansed every 10s per minion you have)
• Blood magic: Unholy martyr (2 conditions cleansed upon leaving shroud)
• Soul reaping: Speed of shadow (remove up to 3 movement impairing conditions when entering shroud)

Reaper:

• Shout: "Suffer!" (1 condition cleansed per foe struck)
• Combo whirl into a light field (gravedigger/soul spiral + well of blood)

Scourge:

• Trait: Abrasive grit (1 condition cleanse when gaining barrier from scourge skill/trait)
• Shrd#2: Nefarious favor (1 condition cleansed)

Harbinger:

• Elixir: Elixir of bliss (5 conditions cleansed)

Tips:

• Some runesets can cleanse some condition upon using an elite skill or a healing skill.
• Sigil of purging remove a condition on hit (10s CD)
• Sigil of cleansing remove a condition on weapon swap (9s CD)
• You can choose to reduce condition duration through runeset (up to 25%)
• The trait spiteful spirit (core) let you gain resolution (-33% incoming damage from conditions)
• The trait dark defiance (core) reduce incoming condition damage by 20% when you are under the effect of protection.
• The skill infusing terror (reaper) reduce incoming condition damage by 20% while it's active.
• The skill "rise!" (reaper) reduce incoming condition damage by 33% as well.
• The trait blood as sand (scourge) reduce incoming condition damage by up to 9%.

you make it sound better than it is by ignoring alot of factors. 
1:  heal yes..  1 of the heals consume conditions ..  that heal is pretty meh tho..  its even worse healing skill than rev dwalf healing and rev got 2 healing abilities.    the necro consume conditions has 1.25 seconds cast time which is super easily to cancel especially with the cc meta..  and Spell breaker.        its also only resustain necro has now so its often being used for the heal and goes on 30 seconds CD .  and it only heals 5k :)    

2: the signet also constantly trasnfer conditions from allies to you with a 1200 range o.o and then yes it clean 5 and have 45 seconds CD..     how is it fair when or good when warrior shake it off is an AOE stun break and condition clean for allies aswell as your self on 30 seconds CD?  and without the downside of constantly trasnfering conditions to you from allies which is bad . really bad especially cause you got no way to handle the conditions    look at warrior he has clean condition and better heal on his healing skill 20 seconds  clean 5 conditions ..    then warrior also have clean condition every 5 seconds on weapon swap.  and clean condition on every burst skill hit + 1 condition for each bar of adrenaline .  thats a passive 4 condi clean basically spamable. 

3: Well of power .. well of power is not good anymore its bad ..  not only its a pulsing which take us back to the argument that it only remove 1 condition 1 at a time and not 5 conditions as you claim..   theres a massive different because if someone still apply conditions on you you are still praying to RNG to clean the right conditions.     on top of that you are forced to stay and stand in same place for 5 seconds..  which is unrealistic .    so its useless now and bad.  

4: Spectral walk .. its great skill but mainly as a stun break and mobility..  and maybe some life force. .  but its not a condition clean. . first of all it only clean up to 5 not 6.    and second. . it only clean 1 condition every 2 seconds interval which once again take us to the argument of RNG and pray it remove the right condition which is unlikely ..   if you have lots of conditions on you and you use  spectral walk as condi clean sorry but you will die . . most likely

5: spiteful renewal  not useful.. again 1 condi every 30 seconds and you are already forced to use consume condition which already clean condition as your healing skill 

6:  Putrid mark great skill..  but its not a condition clean on demand. . it require you to swap weapon into a pure utility weapon that cant dps..  and unlike warrior you are stuck in it for 10 seconds. .its not something you can use in the middle of combat. 

7:deathly swarm from dagger.. great skill and i use it on every condition build.. even on harbringer. . however on a power necro/reper build you can not use dagger because you need to use axe + focus.  for life force and dmg.  so its not an option..

8: plague sending ive yet to see a power build/reaper who use curse..  its once agian like dagger good on condi builds. and perhaps why necros play more condi now days. 

9:Shrouded removal again 1 condition with 3 seconds interval .. anything that remove 1 condition on interval is RNG and often wont save you. . if you have 4 conditions on you you are still praying to RNG god with a chance of 1 to 4 to clean the condition that dmging you.  other death magic is for minion master only 

10 :Unholy martyr  useless now no one use blood magic because this traitline is useless also 2 condition when you leave shroud you need to have life force to enter shroud and then also to leave shroud to clean them. .and lets not forget that you also take conditions from allies when you enter shroud . 

11: Speed of shadow sorry but this only movement conditions and doesnt clean dmging conditions which are the main issue here. 

12 : Suffer useless skill 1 condition  if it was 2 then ya maybe 

13 : Elixir: Elixir of bliss elixer is great amazing skill. . all i ask is 1 skill like this for reaper..  thats all to it. . amazing skill and all classes have skills like this..  pretty much so reaper should have aswell.. 

i wont go into the tips im aware of them all but they dont solve the problem..  you are giving here some pure data which we all know but when you actually play necro/reaper you realize the issue is real and you actually have 0 dedicated condi clean ..  its awful its kitten and it should be changed. 

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, noiwk.2760 said:

you are giving here some pure data which we all know but when you actually play necro/reaper you realize the issue is real and you actually have 0 dedicated condi clean

I just think that you're unwilling to make any effort to get those condi cleanse that you feel are lacking. The necromancer have the options necessary if you don't want to take those options you can only accept the fact that conditions are going to counter your build.

You're basically here telling everyone that your "rock" isn't sharp enough to make a hole into "paper".

[noiwk.2760]

33 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I just think that you're unwilling to make any effort to get those condi cleanse that you feel are lacking. The necromancer have the options necessary if you don't want to take those options you can only accept the fact that conditions are going to counter your build.

You're basically here telling everyone that your "rock" isn't sharp enough to make a hole into "paper".

nope im saying Necro players dont need dig too deep to find the solution the class suffer enough as it is now with all the new classes and mobility and cc added to the game..   and i clearly showed to you that the class is neglated in term of decent condi clean skills and its about time Anet change that 

Edited December 6, 2022 by noiwk.2760

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Necromancer condi management will work fine against low-medium application sources, but against something can spam condies left and right constantly these removals won't be enough.

[noiwk.2760]

Just now, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Necromancer condi management will work fine against low-medium application sources, but against something can spam condies left and right constantly these removals won't be enough.

exactly that !  and right now with new classes and changes over the years there are plenty of classes who can spam conditions. . try fight harbringer as a reaper..    i wanna see how anyone here clean the coditions?    try fight chrom condi or burn guardian/ele  you simply cant clean the conditions  you can sacrifice everything spec fully into condition clean and it wont be enough and now you also dont have dmg. .  blood magic nerfed into nothing so now necro doesnt even have resustain..  maybe only class in game with no resustain ..    and no condi clean

[Dr Meta.3158]

You can pretty much dump any condition cleanse utility that doesn't give you life force unless you're a scourge or a harbinger, limit yourself to 3 traitlines, and then tally up what kind of options you have.

If you want an effective build then you have limited traitlines too.

All in all, the best way to handle conditions is to use your cleanse options only when absolutely necessary. Don't spam them.

In a lot of cases, your condition bar looks scarier than it actually is.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Dr Meta.3158

[noiwk.2760]

9 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

You can pretty much dump any condition cleanse utility that doesn't give you life force unless you're a scourge or a harbinger, limit yourself to 3 traitlines, and then tally up what kind of options you have.

If you want an effective build then you have limited traitlines too.

All in all, the best way to handle conditions is to use your cleanse options only when absolutely necessary. Don't spam them.

In a lot of cases, your condition bar looks scarier than it actually is.

i agree with you.. . we are very limited  and you say cleaning options .. but if we are honest.. on the currently played Reaper build theres literally 1 condition clean skill and thats consume conditions and you use that heal instead of shout heal literally because its your only condition clean skill. .   your traitlines in spite/soul reaping/reaper offer 0 condi clean. . literally. .  and then utility you need your teleport worm no condi clean then you use spectral armor for protection stub break and life force..  and spectral walk who clean a lame useless 1 condition every 2 seconds..      and then even if you wanted to give up 1 of them for a good condi clean there simply isnt one .. .not even a single one . 

Edit: also its not about the bar.. its literally dying to conditions all the time without being even able to do anything about it..   its frustrating and it makes me just wanna quit necro for the time being 

Edited December 6, 2022 by noiwk.2760

[Dr Meta.3158]

8 minutes ago, noiwk.2760 said:

i agree with you.. . we are very limited  and you say cleaning options .. but if we are honest.. on the currently played Reaper build theres literally 1 condition clean skill and thats consume conditions and you use that heal instead of shout heal literally because its your only condition clean skill. .   your traitlines in spite/soul reaping/reaper offer 0 condi clean. . literally. .  and then utility you need your teleport worm no condi clean then you use spectral armor for protection stub break and life force..  and spectral walk who clean a lame useless 1 condition every 2 seconds..      and then even if you wanted to give up 1 of them for a good condi clean there simply isnt one .. .not even a single one . 

Edit: also its not about the bar.. its literally dying to conditions all the time without being even able to do anything about it..   its frustrating and it makes me just wanna quit necro for the time being 

Reaper you have to really push your skill to the limit to be effective against other classes at a higher level of gameplay. You seem like a warrior, but you're not a warrior. You can't just rush in and spam defensive abilities one after another until you land a CC to win. You are a caster. You have to play smarter and more carefully in order to win.

[noiwk.2760]

1 minute ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Reaper you have to really push your skill to the limit to be effective against other classes at a higher level of gameplay. You seem like a warrior, but you're not a warrior. You can't just rush in and spam defensive abilities one after another until you land a CC to win. You are a caster. You have to play smarter and more carefully in order to win.

sure thats true..  but it doesnt change the fact that we lack condi clean and if im honest with the current meta and new classes we lack alot of things. .   but this one is the main problem ..   we have no way to deal with conditions . 

[OddFinrir.6801]

1 hour ago, noiwk.2760 said:

i agree with you.. . we are very limited  and you say cleaning options .. but if we are honest.. on the currently played Reaper build theres literally 1 condition clean skill and thats consume conditions and you use that heal instead of shout heal literally because its your only condition clean skill. .   your traitlines in spite/soul reaping/reaper offer 0 condi clean. . literally. .  and then utility you need your teleport worm no condi clean then you use spectral armor for protection stub break and life force..  and spectral walk who clean a lame useless 1 condition every 2 seconds..      and then even if you wanted to give up 1 of them for a good condi clean there simply isnt one .. .not even a single one . 

Edit: also its not about the bar.. its literally dying to conditions all the time without being even able to do anything about it..   its frustrating and it makes me just wanna quit necro for the time being 

Use your shouts with the rune of the soldier and well of power.  You get multiple cleanses and stun breaks that way and the timer reduces if you take the trait to reduce cooldowns the more you hit with shouts. I don't have many issues with conditions on reaper with this. 

[noiwk.2760]

37 minutes ago, OddFinrir.6801 said:

Use your shouts with the rune of the soldier and well of power.  You get multiple cleanses and stun breaks that way and the timer reduces if you take the trait to reduce cooldowns the more you hit with shouts. I don't have many issues with conditions on reaper with this. 

if only this was true..  but its not..  for many reasons..  first its unrealistic to use many shout skills because worm teleport and and spectal are a must have. . so at best case you have 1 shout skill  and then changing rune means losing 25% movement speed  which sucks but even if we make this sacrifice it remove 1 yes 1 and only 1 condition which is once again useless in most cases..  

[Dr Meta.3158]

I've tried out a variety of builds using the spite traitline and blighter's boon to alleviate the number one problem for both core and reaper. The dependence on lifeforce generation. While it was decent you opened up new problems. You lack burst which meant you couldn't kill fast and bursty classes/builds like thieves, mesmers, holosmiths, FA weavers that eat through your "defense over time" mechanics instantly. You also couldn't really do your job as dps in conquest. You had a much better ability to sustain against duelists but you didn't have the ability to escape or survive a +1 like the other duelist could and again, you can't survive fast bursty builds like other duelists can. You can't support, you can't roam quickly, you can't do anything except live longer than usual against moderate dps builds in team fights.

Condi reaper is useless outside of duels and meme matches because of supports and condi reaper is even worse at survival than blighters boon.

That still means reaper's onslaught is a must have which puts you back in the original problem. You need copious amounts of lifeforce to do anything. That really limits your weapon and utility selection. Your soul is mine, I take over consume conditions because I really need that lifeforce over the condition cleansing and healing. I am grateful flesh wurm and spectral walk give life force because while the mobility is crucial for avoiding attacks, that life force is also critical. 

I've tried almost every other utility... well of corruption, power, and darkness as well as you are all weaklings were my favorites especially with blighters boon. But with onslaught, they don't compare to having more lifeforce.

 

And thats the real issue. You don't really have choices in utilties because you are the only class that has to jump through hoops to have access to your class mechanic along with being completely useless without your class mechanic. On top of that, the more evades, blocks, and invulnerabilities another class has, the weaker you become because so much of your life force depends on actually hitting people. Thieves are such a hard counter not only because you move slow,  hit slow, and don't hit hard enough, but because you can't really generate lifeforce from them. You can hardly land your skills that generate lifeforce and they can wait out spectral skills easily by spamming stealth. You can't run away from them either so you're easy prey unless they're an idiot... or you play harbinger.

 

You play Harbinger and have all the different utilities and traits open up to you because you aren't nearly as gated out of lifeforce as any other necromancer class is, especially core and reaper. And that's... a literal core issue. You not only have to fight against your opponent, but you have to fight against your own class to win. Now reaper is really fun and really well balanced in having strengths and weaknesses to where you really have to think and play smart to win rather than spam skills. But that core issue still remains.