Stop, he's already dead.

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Hemi.5267 said:

 

Ahahahahaha........ no.

Oh, but yes.

[Sindust.7059]

I just sifted through the snowcrows discord to see if anyone did a benchmark of power mech before they removed the build from the site after the December 13th "bugfix", and things are actually worse than I thought. The benchmark is 31k. This is the best result this guy testing it got: https://dps.report/QL3Q-20221214-030327_golem . Further in the discussion they also say that the rotation with grenade kit results in the same numbers (this one was with throw mine).

 

I understand now, why they removed it. Literally half of the support benchmarks are above that. This is the kind of DPS that when it requires you to worry about where your pet is, it's just an insult to injury.

[Zombiesbum.3502]

On 12/14/2022 at 4:10 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

The only bugs we fix are the beneficial ones. 

 

Yeah, Overclock and Shift Signet are still bugged to hell.

[soul.9651]

5 hours ago, Sindust.7059 said:

I just sifted through the snowcrows discord to see if anyone did a benchmark of power mech before they removed the build from the site after the December 13th "bugfix", and things are actually worse than I thought. The benchmark is 31k. This is the best result this guy testing it got: https://dps.report/QL3Q-20221214-030327_golem . Further in the discussion they also say that the rotation with grenade kit results in the same numbers (this one was with throw mine).

 

I understand now, why they removed it. Literally half of the support benchmarks are above that. This is the kind of DPS that when it requires you to worry about where your pet is, it's just an insult to injury.

Well considering the effort this pmech "rotation" needs most of the time the dps is where it should be. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by soul.9651

[Doctor Hide.6345]

16 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Well considering the effort this pmech "rotation" needs most of the time the dps is where it should be. 

 

     Well, I will say this. Condi Virtusuoso is almost the same amount of work that Pmech is, and that build does around 38k. It's one of the main reasons I switched to it. People love to kitten on, but there are a lot of high end specs that are just as easy as Pmech that do a lot of damage. Another example is d/d deadeye on thief. That rotation is 10x easier than Pmech, and it does 44k on bench. 

     People just like to kitten on Pmech for no reason now when there are a lot of builds with easier rotations doing more damage. Hell, staff daredevil on thief does 34k damage for like 4-5 buttons.

[soul.9651]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

     Well, I will say this. Condi Virtusuoso is almost the same amount of work that Pmech is, and that build does around 38k. It's one of the main reasons I switched to it. People love to kitten on, but there are a lot of high end specs that are just as easy as Pmech that do a lot of damage. Another example is d/d deadeye on thief. That rotation is 10x easier than Pmech, and it does 44k on bench. 

     People just like to kitten on Pmech for no reason now when there are a lot of builds with easier rotations doing more damage. Hell, staff daredevil on thief does 34k damage for like 4-5 buttons.

And who said that those other specs dont need to be nerfed aswell to the pmech level? There is already too much power creep in this game. It was absolutly obvious that people will switch to virtuoso after mech gets destroyed, and guess what, if virtuoso gets nerfed people will switch back to scourge. All those Li ranged builds are just one big balance mistake..

Edited January 5, 2023 by soul.9651

[Doctor Hide.6345]

1 minute ago, soul.9651 said:

And who said that those other specs dont need to be nerfed aswell to the pmech level? There is already too much power creep in this game. It was absolutly obvious that people will switch to virtuoso after mech gets destroyed, and guess what, if virtuoso gets nerfed people will switch back to scourge. All those Li ranged builds are just one big balance mistake..

 

     Considering those other ones don't get kitten on as much as Pmech did, and people just let them slide. I doubt that they will get nerfed just as bad as Pmech got hit. Just feels more hate the Pmech for the actual mech being there than the effort part. Which I do get the screen clutter argument, but that is no reason for the damage nerf side. 

     And most builds are LI in my eyes by the way. The only none LI builds I consider are the condi ones for Engineers due to the piano playstyle. Everything else is LI to me, so if we went by your suggestion 99% of the builds will be nerfed.

[soul.9651]

5 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

     Considering those other ones don't get kitten on as much as Pmech did, and people just let them slide. I doubt that they will get nerfed just as bad as Pmech got hit. Just feels more hate the Pmech for the actual mech being there than the effort part. Which I do get the screen clutter argument, but that is no reason for the damage nerf side. 

     And most builds are LI in my eyes by the way. The only none LI builds I consider are the condi ones for Engineers due to the piano playstyle. Everything else is LI to me, so if we went by your suggestion 99% of the builds will be nerfed.

Again if they nerfed 99% even of all specs not just engi, i would be fine with anet reducing the power creep in this game

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

     Considering those other ones don't get kitten on as much as Pmech did, and people just let them slide. I doubt that they will get nerfed just as bad as Pmech got hit. Just feels more hate the Pmech for the actual mech being there than the effort part. Which I do get the screen clutter argument, but that is no reason for the damage nerf side. 

     And most builds are LI in my eyes by the way. The only none LI builds I consider are the condi ones for Engineers due to the piano playstyle. Everything else is LI to me, so if we went by your suggestion 99% of the builds will be nerfed.

 

Two simple explanations:

1. virtuoso is busted (and pretty much at that. In fact a lot of builds are currently far above where they can be considered "balanced" in relation to how the content is designed)

2. virtuoso's skill floor is higher than pmech, aka the performance you get from it drops more when played poorly compared to pmech

 

I mean people are complaining about having to manage pressing "return to me" ever couple seconds if the mech is out of range. That says pretty much everything one needs to know as far as complexity goes.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Sindust.7059]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I mean people are complaining about having to manage pressing "return to me" ever couple seconds if the mech is out of range. That says pretty much everything one needs to know as far as complexity goes.

People aren't complaining about it because it's difficult but because it's buggy. Learn the difference.

[Nash.2681]

1 minute ago, Sindust.7059 said:

People aren't complaining about it because it's difficult but because it's buggy. Learn the difference.

They already complained about it even before they found out it's buggy, so.... 🤷‍♂️

[Sindust.7059]

Just now, Nash.2681 said:

They already complained about it even before they found out it's buggy, so.... 🤷‍♂️

They complained about it, because it has been buggy since GW2 release, and that's why soulbeast is the most popular ranger dps spec, even though untamed is technically better. Everyone knew that pets are a bad idea, and all the predictions came true. So don't rewrite history.

[Nash.2681]

1 minute ago, Sindust.7059 said:

They complained about it, because it has been buggy since GW2 release, and that's why soulbeast is the most popular ranger dps spec, even though untamed is technically better. Everyone knew that pets are a bad idea, and all the predictions came true. So don't rewrite history.

Not arguing about issues of pet (classes). But it's certainly no rewriting of history to conclude, that the vast majority of QQ about every absolutely deserved mech nerf after it got boosted way over the top in june, was primarily about losing their precious no-effort dps. If that bug ever gets fixed (which it should be, like every other bug) we'd still had complains, since the damage is already done. 

[Sindust.7059]

1 minute ago, Nash.2681 said:

Not arguing about issues of pet (classes). But it's certainly no rewriting of history to conclude, that the vast majority of QQ about every absolutely deserved mech nerf after it got boosted way over the top in june, was primarily about losing their precious no-effort dps. If that bug ever gets fixed (which it should be, like every other bug) we'd still had complains, since the damage is already done. 

The complaints about it before the november 29th patch were rare and few in between, because everyone understood why it had to be nerfed. November 29th patch went over the top though. At that point mech was already doing 33k benchmarks, but somehow that wasn't bad enough for haters like you, and you kept complaining even though it was already average in content, and bottom of the barrel in benchmarks.

[The Boz.2038]

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I mean people are complaining about having to manage pressing "return to me" ever couple seconds if the mech is out of range. That says pretty much everything one needs to know as far as complexity goes.

The complaints aren't because omg have to press buttons, but because the behavior is buggy, the mech acts haphazardly, and pressing to me-attack to solve the problem of DPS loss is itself a DPS loss.

And it is buggy.

[Nash.2681]

Just now, Sindust.7059 said:

The complaints about it before the november 29th patch were rare and few in between, because everyone understood why it had to be nerfed. November 29th patch went over the top though. At that point mech was already doing 33k benchmarks, but somehow that wasn't bad enough for haters like you, and you kept complaining even though it was already average in content, and bottom of the barrel in benchmarks.

Few complaints? Ofc there were few complaints before nov 29th since Mech got barely touched. If everyone really understood why Mech had to be nerfed, we hadn't got that outcry. But since you bring up the 33k bench again clearly shows that you didn't understand any of the more than valid critics about why Mech (and especailly NI pMech) is a huge issue and needs severe adjustment and we can skip any further discussion 🤦‍♂️

[The Boz.2038]

Just now, Nash.2681 said:

Few complaints? Ofc there were few complaints before nov 29th since Mech got barely touched. If everyone really understood why Mech had to be nerfed, we hadn't got that outcry. But since you bring up the 33k bench again clearly shows that you didn't understand any of the more than valid critics about why Mech (and especailly NI pMech) is a huge issue and needs severe adjustment and we can skip any further discussion 🤦‍♂️

"I am just, like, so far above you, I don't even need to present my argument. You are below me, and when you get on my level, you will agree with me."
Sad. 
Do better.

[Nash.2681]

2 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

"I am just, like, so far above you, I don't even need to present my argument. You are below me, and when you get on my level, you will agree with me."
Sad. 
Do better.

Read what I wrote in another topic about it, no need to repeat or copy/paste it all over again. Link is already provided just a bit above.

Do better.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Nash.2681

[The Boz.2038]

Just now, Nash.2681 said:

Read what I wrote in another topic about it, no read to repeat it all over again. Link is already provided just a bit above.

Do better.

Dude, I'm not subscribing to Your Replies as a substack. What possible environment could you be submerged in that would let you think that?

[zeyeti.8347]

I like how ppl compare the ele rotation against the pmech rotation , you should try filming your keyboard , one class can be literally played blind with a two button keyboard , and the other need another pair of 5 fingers and a very good undertanding of how it works .

What have pmech to worry about ? range? 1200 range 90% of his dps with mech afk on the boss baby ! rotation ? 25k half sleeping !

damage ? you heal for 550 secondes without any support helping you ! breakstun , teleport ? shift signet my friend ! 

Oh yes dps is not 40k , omg for a two button pressing class it should do 40k you think , thats absurd , the dps he does now is equall the effort the player put in his rotation , non existing ! 

Pmech is a LI build and it should do LI damage , if it goes back to what it didi before 32k afk , all squads will be filled with emchs again , and bb diversity in the game 

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity , yes ofc ele is performing very well , and nobody plays mech , ouin ouin , sure fact .... mech is more played than ele whole 3e-specs , ppl lie , numbers don't .

what i can understand is the weird buff the mech looses when he is too long away from the player , with the dumb IA pets have , thats a bad change indeed.

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Nash.2681]

3 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Dude, I'm not subscribing to Your Replies as a substack. What possible environment could you be submerged in that would let you think that?

The link to the post where I explain in short what went terribly wrong with Mech in the last ~6 months is literally just 7 posts above, even quoted 6 posts above. If you don't want to read it- fine. But then again, don't make dumb assumptions. Kthx.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Nash.2681

[The Boz.2038]

Just now, zeyeti.8347 said:

I like how ppl compare the ele rotation against the pmech rotation , you should try filming your keyboard , one class can be literally played blind with a two button keyboard , and the other need another pair of 5 fingers and a very good undertanding of how it works .

What have pmech to worry about ? range? 1200 range 90% of his dps with mech afk on the boss baby ! rotation ? 25k half sleeping !

damage ? you heal for 550 secondes without any support helping you ! breakstun , teleport ? shift signet my friend ! 

Oh yes dps is not 40k , omg for a two button pressing class it should do 40k you think , thats absurd , the dps he does now is equall the effort the player put in his rotation , non existing ! 

Pmech is a LI build and it should do LI damage , if it goes back to what it didi before 32k afk , all squads will be filled with emchs again , and bb diversity in the game 

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity , yes ofc ele is performing very well , and nobody plays mech , ouin ouin , sure fact ....

 

"It's okay if this build played optimally at ~95% the activity of a current top-performer pVirt does ~75% the DPS of that top-performer because this build can be played at 15% the activity for ~60% the performance, while this other unrelated build that takes 160% the activity does ~95% the performance of that one, even though that same class has an LI build that camps fire and presses two buttons for the same ~60% performance at range and something something pet class afk dps I don't know where I was going with this I don't really have an argument something something numbers."
Cool beans. 

 

[Sindust.7059]

4 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

I like how ppl compare the ele rotation against the pmech rotation , you should try filming your keyboard , one class can be literally played blind with a two button keyboard , and the other need another pair of 5 fingers and a very good undertanding of how it works .

What have pmech to worry about ? range? 1200 range 90% of his dps with mech afk on the boss baby ! rotation ? 25k half sleeping !

damage ? you heal for 550 secondes without any support helping you ! breakstun , teleport ? shift signet my friend ! 

Oh yes dps is not 40k , omg for a two button pressing class it should do 40k you think , thats absurd , the dps he does now is equall the effort the player put in his rotation , non existing ! 

Pmech is a LI build and it should do LI damage , if it goes back to what it didi before 32k afk , all squads will be filled with emchs again , and bb diversity in the game 

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity , yes ofc ele is performing very well , and nobody plays mech , ouin ouin , sure fact ....

 

Only people in your imagination want it to do 40k. As I said before, before november 29th it was in a good spot, it was already doing LI damage on the LI build (not the grenade build which is not LI as it's just as complex as virtuoso or power soulbeast with that rotation, both of which are also ranged btw), but it was actually fun to play, because we didn't have to babysit the buggy mech. Not any more.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Sindust.7059

[zeyeti.8347]

13 minutes ago, Sindust.7059 said:

Only people in your imagination want it to do 40k. As I said before, before november 29th it was in a good spot, it was already doing LI damage on the LI build (not the grenade build which is not LI as it's just as complex as virtuoso or power soulbeast with that rotation, both of which are also ranged btw), but it was actually fun to play, because we didn't have to babysit the buggy mech. Not any more.

It is still played at 20% by the data , something had to change on the mech , the performance was too high for the input , they choose the weird debuff on mech passive stats from players changes , i personnaly thought they would change shift signet , because lets face the truth , tell me wich signet in the game does so much ? +25% speed , all your boons to the mech , breastun , port away 1200 range ... etc etc , also remind you the emch is the only one who has busted signet like that , +10% damage , +10% condi damage ... etc , while all other signet are just + xx in this stats , it was made to be LI with such a bad design and overbusted signets , if they added cool utilty skills like ranger has for pet orders like , keep your position , or sickem , ... that would make it more inetsreting to play , but no .

Mech rotation is 1-2-3-4-5 endpoint , no skill ceiling , no interaction with traits , and as i said , if it is in a bad spot , why is literally 1/5 player choosing it for endgame , i see you comin , because he has an alac/dps/support build ? so do ele has but it less than 3% played , mech is too easy to play for the result it does , before the patch i feeled like cheating playing it , ppl asking how do i deal so much damage , while i was using rifle turret and pressing off cd rifle skills , every raid i made was literally a cakewalk , was feeling like tarir meta ... , while drinking some tea ofc . before the patch , at his peak it was a 33% played , what did you expect ? next step was renaming the game mech wars 2 .... if this nerf didnt occured , all other specs needed to win a 20% damage boost ... the higher the rotation the higher the damage , the lower the rotation the lwoer the damage .

Ofc they can readd the cool triple round shot for rifle , but the damage need then to be nerfed then , and i am for a removal off the mech debuff when away from the player , thats literally the good design part of the mech , being a moving boon beacon , but that will coem witha  price , what will you say if all signets are now normal signets adding +180 power instead of +10% damage ? because all others profession have this sort of stuff , only ele has garbage signet , the only usefull being burn signet with 180 precision ...

Edited January 5, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Eekasqueak.7850]

4 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

It is still played at 20% by the data , something had to change on the mech , the performance was too high for the input , they choose the weird debuff on mech passive stats from players changes , i personnaly thought they would change shift signet , because lets face the truth , tell me wich signet in the game does so much ? +25% speed , all your boons to the mech , breastun , port away 1200 range ... etc etc , also remind you the emch is the only one who has busted signet like that , +10% damage , +10% condi damage ... etc , while all other signet are just + xx in this stats , it was made to be LI with such a bad design and overbusted signets , if they added cool utilty skills like ranger has for pet orders like , keep your position , or sickem , ... that would make it more inetsreting to play , but no .

Mech rotation is 1-2-3-4-5 endpoint , no skill ceiling , no interaction with traits , and as i said , if it is in a bad spot , why is literally 1/5 player choosing it for endgame , i see you comin , because he has an alac/dps/support build ? so do ele has but it less than 3% played , mech is too easy to play for the result it does , before the patch i feeled like cheating playing it , ppl asking how do i deal so much damage , while i was using rifle turret and pressing off cd rifle skills , every raid i made was literally a cakewalk , was feeling like tarir meta ... , while drinking some tea ofc . before the patch , at his peak it was a 33% played , what did you expect ? next step was renaming the game mech wars 2 .... if this nerf didnt occured , all other specs needed to win a 20% damage boost ... the higher the rotation the higher the damage , the lower the rotation the lwoer the damage .

Ele is a weird comparison to make for alac because alac tempest needs some major qol overhauls to be really viable. They made the awful choice to tie alac to overloads and it's extremely unforgiving so it isn't going to get much use.