Stop, he's already dead.

[zeyeti.8347]

6 minutes ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

Ele is a weird comparison to make for alac because alac tempest needs some major qol overhauls to be really viable. They made the awful choice to tie alac to overloads and it's extremely unforgiving so it isn't going to get much use. 

completely agree , but ppl here are comparing eles to mechs so it had to be stated . Mech is not i na bad spot , it is in the spot it needs to be , an easy build for starter with 0 need of comprehension and weird mechancis to maximize the effectiveness of the build, don't dare compare that to a catalyst or a weaver , just read how Elemental Epitome works , so don't compare a hello kitty rotation to a starcraft 2 grandmaster apm.

All mechs trait for pmech are very simple and straighforward , i see even ppl asking why the 2x 15% crit. chance isn't stated in your buffs ... thats says long on the level ... and complain because theyr inner self trust they are only on a 75% crit. chance while criting every time ...

Edited January 5, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Kodama.6453]

7 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

It is still played at 20% by the data , something had to change on the mech , the performance was too high for the input , they choose the weird debuff on mech passive stats from players changes , i personnaly thought they would change shift signet , because lets face the truth , tell me wich signet in the game does so much ? +25% speed , all your boons to the mech , breastun , port away 1200 range ... etc etc , also remind you the emch is the only one who has busted signet like that , +10% damage , +10% condi damage ... etc , while all other signet are just + xx in this stats , it was made to be LI with such a bad design and overbusted signets , if they added cool utilty skills like ranger has for pet orders like , keep your position , or sickem , ... that would make it more inetsreting to play , but no .

Mech rotation is 1-2-3-4-5 endpoint , no skill ceiling , no interaction with traits , and as i said , if it is in a bad spot , why is literally 1/5 player choosing it for endgame , i see you comin , because he has an alac/dps/support build ? so do ele has but it less than 3% played , mech is too easy to play for the result it does , before the patch i feeled like cheating playing it , ppl asking how do i deal so much damage , while i was using rifle turret and pressing off cd rifle skills , every raid i made was literally a cakewalk , was feeling like tarir meta ... , while drinking some tea ofc . before the patch , at his peak it was a 33% played , what did you expect ? next step was renaming the game mech wars 2 .... if this nerf didnt occured , all other specs needed to win a 20% damage boost ... the higher the rotation the higher the damage , the lower the rotation the lwoer the damage .

Ofc they can readd the cool triple round shot for rifle , but the damage need then to be nerfed then , and i am for a removal off the mech debuff when away from the player , thats literally the good design part of the mech , being a moving boon beacon , but that will coem witha  price , what will you say if all signets are now normal signets adding +180 power instead of +10% damage ? because all others profession have this sort of stuff , only ele has garbage signet , the only usefull being burn signet with 180 precision ...

It all boils down to the problem I was already pointing out the moment people suggested an elite spec which replaces the toolbelt with a pet here on the forum.

Giving up the entire toolbelt for a pet is a stupid idea.

The toolbelt holds tons of important functions for engineers. One of our healing skills is located on it (med kit), half of the core stunbreaks are on it (slick shoes toolbelt, thumper turret toolbelt, elixir gun toolbelt), many hard hitting damage abilities are located on it (rocket turret toolbelt, rifle turret toolbelt, throw mine toolbelt, etc.).

What we get from the spec has to be worth giving all this stuff up. It needs to compensate for that loss. And to achieve that, stuff needs to get pretty ridiculous. Crisis zone, for example, is a hilariously bloated ability looked at in a vacuum. But it is needed because it has to make up for stuff like the missing stability from toolbelt, the missing condi cleanses from toolbelt, the missing stunbreaks from toolbelt.

Now we have this mess. Mechanist has to be busted on individual skills because the trade off of giving up the entire toolbelt is just stupidly harsh. If you try to replace a highly complex and customizable mechanic like the toolbelt with a way simpler mechanic and want both to be equal in power, then the simple mechanic will have absurd power levels.

[Sindust.7059]

10 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

if it is in a bad spot , why is literally 1/5 player choosing it for endgame

HAM is still meta, and condi mech is decent numbers-wise (though still annoying because of the stat debuff thing). I actually don't see many power mechs outside of open world content. The people in our guild have gone holo, condi mech or switched to other classes entirely (like me with soulbeast). Maybe there still are a few people using power mech due to inertia, because they have gotten used to it, but aside from that nobody is playing it any more.

[zeyeti.8347]

6 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

It all boils down to the problem I was already pointing out the moment people suggested an elite spec which replaces the toolbelt with a pet here on the forum.

Giving up the entire toolbelt for a pet is a stupid idea.

The toolbelt holds tons of important functions for engineers. One of our healing skills is located on it (med kit), half of the core stunbreaks are on it (slick shoes toolbelt, thumper turret toolbelt, elixir gun toolbelt), many hard hitting damage abilities are located on it (rocket turret toolbelt, rifle turret toolbelt, throw mine toolbelt, etc.).

What we get from the spec has to be worth giving all this stuff up. It needs to compensate for that loss. And to achieve that, stuff needs to get pretty ridiculous. Crisis zone, for example, is a hilariously bloated ability looked at in a vacuum. But it is needed because it has to make up for stuff like the missing stability from toolbelt, the missing condi cleanses from toolbelt, the missing stunbreaks from toolbelt.

Now we have this mess. Mechanist has to be busted on individual skills because the trade off of giving up the entire toolbelt is just stupidly harsh. If you try to replace a highly complex and customizable mechanic like the toolbelt with a way simpler mechanic and want both to be equal in power, then the simple mechanic will have absurd power levels.

What you all stated all other specs miss it too .

Stun breaks ? you have shift signet ! Crisis zone is an aberration ! and sovort 

I really thought mech special utilitys would have been orders like ranger has , bu now go on changing something that give you a +10% damage boost for nothing , what utilty skills increase your damage for 10% 100% of the time ?  it is designed to be Li , and so it needs to do Li damage , toolbelt and utiltys should have added more depths into the robot , especially with this garbage IA .

Tell me just which spec has a breakstun , 550 healing/sec , 1200 range almost same dps as melee , amazing cc , all this Qol come to a price , "meh" damage.

Edited January 5, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Sindust.7059]

6 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

don't dare compare that to a catalyst or a weaver

If you use condi tempest or staff power weaver while camping fire attunement, you get similar results for similar input. Just because you can play a more complex rotation, doesn't mean that the LI version isn't comparable. You only need the difficult rotation to get to 40k, and you can do that on ele. But you can still get 30k with whack-a-mole in fire attunement, also ranged, and with better AoE.

[zeyeti.8347]

3 minutes ago, Sindust.7059 said:

If you use condi tempest or staff power weaver while camping fire attunement, you get similar results for similar input. Just because you can play a more complex rotation, doesn't mean that the LI version isn't comparable. You only need the difficult rotation to get to 40k, and you can do that on ele. But you can still get 30k with whack-a-mole in fire attunement, also ranged, and with better AoE.

i would really like to see an ele using 1-2-3-4-5 doing 30k on a moving target ! ... it is funny if those build exist why is ele played at such a low rate 

Edited January 5, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Sindust.7059]

Just now, zeyeti.8347 said:

why is ele played at such a low rate 

Because those builds aren't advertised on snowcrows, and people are being scared away from ele because it's notorious for being a piano class, and nobody even bothers with LI versions.

 

And you're right, it doesn't do as well on a moving target, but it does better with stationary targets with AoE. You win some, you lose some.

[zeyeti.8347]

just tested iam a 24k camping fire on weaver 1-2-3-4-5 , and used some utiltys , i tested pmech , iam at 32k with 1-2-3-4-5 using rifle turret and busted signets 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Kodama.6453]

16 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

What you all stated all other specs miss it too .

That's not true.

Let's take a look at thief, for example. Thief in core has access to 6 different stunbreaks to chose from: blinding powder, shadowstep, shadow portal, infiltrator's signet, haste, roll for initiative.

Core engineer also has access to 6 stunbreaks to chose from, but 3 of them are placed on the utility bar and the other 3 on the toolbelt: elixir s (utility), elixir u (utility), utility goggles (utility), rumble (toolbelt), superspeed (toolbelt), healing mist (toolbelt)

Mechanist is literally the only spec in the game which has less options to chose from for stunbreaks than it's core class. You get access to shift signet and crisis zone as new stunbreaks, but you lose access to rumble, superspeed and healing mist. You trade 2 new stunbreaks for 3 old stunbreaks.

All other elite specs (with the single exception of specter, since for some reason it didn't get a new stunbreak on a well) gain access to 1 new stunbreak while losing none of their core stunbreaks.

You can't argue with "but ranger doesn't have a toolbelt either!", because these other classes got all these features located elsewhere (be it weapons, utility skills, or other stuff). Engineer got balanced around spreading their effect between the utility bar and toolbelt bar.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Kodama.6453

[zeyeti.8347]

9 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

That's not true.

Let's take a look at thief, for example. Thief in core has access to 6 different stunbreaks to chose from: blinding powder, shadowstep, shadow portal, infiltrator's signet, haste, roll for initiative.

Core engineer also has access to 6 stunbreaks to chose from, but 3 of them are placed on the utility bar and the other 3 on the toolbelt: elixir s (utility), elixir u (utility), utility goggles (utility), rumble (toolbelt), superspeed (toolbelt), healing mist (toolbelt)

Mechanist is literally the only spec in the game which has less options to chose from for stunbreaks than it's core class. You get access to shift signet and crisis zone and new stunbreaks, but you lose access to rumble, superspeed and healing mist. You trade 2 new stunbreaks for 3 old stunbreaks.

All other elite specs (with the single exception of specter, since for some reason it didn't get a new stunbreak on a well) gain access to 1 new stunbreak while losing none of their core stunbreaks.

You can't argue with "but ranger doesn't have a toolbelt either!", because these other classes got all these features located elsewhere (be it weapons, utility skills, or other stuff). Engineer got balanced around spreading their effect between the utility bar and toolbelt bar.

All you  say come to a price just play pmech and look what he has in his kit , a port away who clean 2 conditions + breasktun , constant passiv healing doing nothing (as usuall) , a thief if he wants to go all out dps , doesnt use blinding powder , nor shadowstep , pmech has all that blended in his kit , you choosed a weird example , thief with ele are the two lowest spec played in endgame content ...

Ele or completley busted in WO playing celestial , ofc wouldn't a  pmech being unkillable playing celestial ?

What i mean with all the selfsustain the easiness and the dps who is high enough for the input of players , need more ? i think not ! A better change on the devuff stats for mech ofc ... And for your information snowcrow doesnt hold the pmech in viable builds anymore , but it is still played ...https://snowcrows.com/builds/engineer/mechanist/power-mechanist not me saying it , pros saying it.

what do you want ? to deal 32k afk , and it will be a 33% play rate again ?

Edited January 5, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Kodama.6453]

3 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

All you  say come to a price just play pmech and look what he has in his kit , a port away who clean 2 conditions + breasktun , constant passiv healing doing nothing (as usuall) , a thief if he wants to go all out dps , doesnt use blinding powder , nor shadowstep , pmech has all that blended in his kit 

I know that mechanist skills are bloated. I am explaining to you why they are.

Because anet has taken away the entire toolbelt, which the engineer got balanced around having access to and it holds many key features for the class. Taking that away entirely means that what we gain in exchange for it must hold the same power, otherwise you simply won't use the elite spec. The trade off needs to be worth it.

And because the toolbelt is so highly intertwined with engineers entire identity and it holding so many key features for the class, what is needed as compensation for it's loss is massive.

I was pointing out this problem from the beginning. If we replace the entire toolbelt for a simpler mechanic, then there are just 2 outcomes possible. Either the spec gets bloated skills or the spec is not worth using over other elite specs and therefore useless.

[zeyeti.8347]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I know that mechanist skills are bloated. I am explaining to you why they are.

Because anet has taken away the entire toolbelt, which the engineer got balanced around having access to and it holds many key features for the class. Taking that away entirely means that what we gain in exchange for it must hold the same power, otherwise you simply won't use the elite spec. The trade off needs to be worth it.

And because the toolbelt is so highly intertwined with engineers entire identity and it holding so many key features for the class, what is needed as compensation for it's loss is massive.

I was pointing out this problem from the beginning. If we replace the entire toolbelt for a simpler mechanic, then there are just 2 outcomes possible. Either the spec gets bloated skills or the spec is not worth using over other elite specs and therefore useless.

then we agree , the pmech is where it has to be , in the legacy ! so simplistic isn't fun i agree , i always wondered why anet didn't busted the holo instead of the mech , cause no need to point you out holo is way more interseting to play and thus need to be way above mech in term of effectiveness

[Sindust.7059]

17 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

just tested iam a 24k camping fire on weaver 1-2-3-4-5 , and used some utiltys , i tested pmech , iam at 32k with 1-2-3-4-5 using rifle turret and busted signets 

 

Try scepter/warhorn. I'm doing 28k on both.

[zeyeti.8347]

Just now, Sindust.7059 said:

Try scepter/warhorn. I'm doing 28k on both.

can't use warhorn on weaver 😁

[The Boz.2038]

Just now, zeyeti.8347 said:

can't use warhorn on weaver 😁

Who said you need to use weaver, lol?

[zeyeti.8347]

he , staff power weaver camping fire 

Edited January 5, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Sindust.7059]

1 minute ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

can't use warhorn on weaver 😁

Ah, I missed that part. Idk what you're doing wrong then, I get 27-28k with staff on weaver too, and I don't have to press any more buttons than on mech either (F skills get replaced by utility skills in the rotation).

[zeyeti.8347]

condi or power ?

 

[Sindust.7059]

Power. Full berserker.

[zeyeti.8347]

i mean tempest scepter / warhorn , i guess condi ?

 

[Sindust.7059]

Just now, zeyeti.8347 said:

i mean tempest scepter / warhorn , i guess condi ?

 

Yeah, that one condi. With balthazar runes and just enough viper pieces to reach 100% burning duration with food. Rest grieving.

[zeyeti.8347]

Yep 28k , i have to admit i was wrong on this one 

But still that means the damage of the pmech are okay today 

Edited January 5, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[The Boz.2038]

1 minute ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Yep 28k , i have to admit i was wrong on this one 

But still that means the damage of the pmech are okay today 

"I was wrong. That still means I am right."
Is this a line from Kung Pow!?

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

46 minutes ago, Sindust.7059 said:

HAM is still meta, and condi mech is decent numbers-wise (though still annoying because of the stat debuff thing). I actually don't see many power mechs outside of open world content. The people in our guild have gone holo, condi mech or switched to other classes entirely (like me with soulbeast). Maybe there still are a few people using power mech due to inertia, because they have gotten used to it, but aside from that nobody is playing it any more.

You must be playing a different game because I still see power mechs all the time.

[zeyeti.8347]

2 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

"I was wrong. That still means I am right."
Is this a line from Kung Pow!?

hahahaha thx i spit on my screen