If You Give out CC's like Candy, at least give out more Breakstuns

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

2 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

I ve never understood this argument. Who CC without following up with dmg?

This happens frequently, actually. Many times, you are CC'd by someone trying to get you off their case (e.g., shocking aura, Necro fear ring, slick shoes, etc). Other times, you might be "collateral damage" from an AoE CC that was aimed at someone else.  It's often prudent to take a quick glance around to see if someone is actually about to burst you before you waste a potentially high-CD stunbreak to escape the stun. Otherwise, you might be better served by just waiting for the stun to end so you can save your CDs.

[Shao.7236]

5 minutes ago, Eugchriss.2046 said:

I ve never understood this argument. Who CC without following up with dmg?

A lot lot lot of players (mostly warrior based builds, usually I noticed with Spellbreakers) do stack a lot of CC before following with damage.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

22 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

A lot lot lot of players (mostly warrior based builds, usually I noticed with Spellbreakers) do stack a lot of CC before following with damage.

Hey, might as well take advantage of the CC to load them up with vulnerability, cripple, weakness, and/or immobilize or use the breathing space to cast your own heal then reapply CC for the damage followup.

Just like there are some attacks not worth dodging (because you can jump over them...) there are some CCs where you are better off waiting out the stun than stunbreaking the CC.

[Jobber.6348]

The more I play pvp, the more I'm wishing Anet just gave players breakbars. 
Some specs or class straight up have enough CC to lockdown the entire enemy team by themselves, and apparently it's my fault for not playing the correct class. 

Screw that nonsense, truly. 

[Sahne.6950]

On 12/19/2022 at 6:30 PM, Yasai.3549 said:

Some specs or class straight up have enough CC to lockdown the entire enemy team by themselves

what spec and build are you talking about?

[Jobber.6348]

26 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

what spec and build are you talking about?

Just a one example because I myself play it: 

Herald Mallyx is known to be one with CtA recently being buffed, so every 5 seconds they can pull everyone in. Combine this with Staff 5/Axe 5 and Chaotic Release back to back, you can group up the enemy team and proceed to kick them off the CP if they so happen to not even have a single person on their team that can give them Stability or AoE Stunbreak. 

They stunbreak? No problem, just CTA again 5 seconds later. 

And this is JUST ME. This doesn't count my team also beating on them the entire time this is happening. 

Another example because I know someone who plays it: 

Reaper with Spectral Grasp and GS. YEP THAT'S ALL THEY NEED. 
Spectral Grasp > Shroud 3 > exit shroud + Chilled to the Bone. 

Anyone who gets pulled in is back to back CC'd and will probably die. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Yasai.3549

[Sahne.6950]

19 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Just a one example because I myself play it: 

Herald Mallyx is known to be one with CtA recently being buffed, so every 5 seconds they can pull everyone in. Combine this with Staff 5/Axe 5 and Chaotic Release back to back, you can group up the enemy team and proceed to kick them off the CP if they so happen to not even have a single person on their team that can give them Stability or AoE Stunbreak. 

They stunbreak? No problem, just CTA again 5 seconds later. 

And this is JUST ME. This doesn't count my team also beating on them the entire time this is happening. 

Another example because I know someone who plays it: 

Reaper with Spectral Grasp and GS. YEP THAT'S ALL THEY NEED. 
Spectral Grasp > Shroud 3 > exit shroud + Chilled to the Bone. 

Anyone who gets pulled in is back to back CC'd and will probably die. 

Thats far from "locking the whole team singlehandedly"..... but i see what you mean.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

16 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Reaper with Spectral Grasp and GS. YEP THAT'S ALL THEY NEED. 
Spectral Grasp > Shroud 3 > exit shroud + Chilled to the Bone. 

Anyone who gets pulled in is back to back CC'd and will probably die. 

Do CttB after Grasp then go into shroud. 

[Fueki.4753]

42 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Just a one example because I myself play it: 

Herald Mallyx is known to be one with CtA recently being buffed, so every 5 seconds they can pull everyone in. Combine this with Staff 5/Axe 5 and Chaotic Release back to back, you can group up the enemy team and proceed to kick them off the CP if they so happen to not even have a single person on their team that can give them Stability or AoE Stunbreak. 

They stunbreak? No problem, just CTA again 5 seconds later. 

And this is JUST ME. This doesn't count my team also beating on them the entire time this is happening. 

Another example because I know someone who plays it: 

Reaper with Spectral Grasp and GS. YEP THAT'S ALL THEY NEED. 
Spectral Grasp > Shroud 3 > exit shroud + Chilled to the Bone. 

Anyone who gets pulled in is back to back CC'd and will probably die. 

I've seen groups getting disabled with less effort. Some people simply give up reacting when Harmbinger Shroud's Vital Draw or Chronomancer's Gravity Well gets them.

So it's not only the "lack" of stun breaks and stability that is an issue (and whether this actually is an issue is debatable). People simply deciding not to bother with trying to act against the often seemingly overwhelming surplus of CC (and other movement impairing effects) is another facet of the matter.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Jobber.6348]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Do CttB after Grasp then go into shroud. 

They explained that the reason you Grasp then Shroud fear is so you can cleave them abit with Shroud 4 for damage/bait dodges then the moment you exit Shroud w/ a little bit of Quickness left over, your CttB will cast much faster and lock them down to prevent escapes. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

They explained that the reason you Grasp then Shroud fear is so you can cleave them abit with Shroud 4 for damage/bait dodges then the moment you exit Shroud w/ a little bit of Quickness left over, your CttB will cast much faster and lock them down to prevent escapes. 

Yeah, that works too. I would use the animation of them getting pulled to me from Grasp to cast CttB to chain CC then go into shroud for Shroud 4 then Shroud 3, shroud 5, then exit shroud, Horn 4 with Shroud AA hits mixed in between the shroud CCs and ending in Axe 2. There are a lot of ways to do that chain though, so whatever works for someone works.

[Anonynja.3172]

Counterplay, man. Every class needs counterplay. Spellbreaker is dominating the meta. CC is its counter. People are bringing more CC because they're responding intelligently to the meta. That should encourage diversifying away from Spellbreaker. It's a dialogue between you and the meta. Don't go running to ANet to change the rules so you can win more lol.

[Fueki.4753]

15 minutes ago, Anonynja.3172 said:

Counterplay, man. Every class needs counterplay. Spellbreaker is dominating the meta. CC is its counter. People are bringing more CC because they're responding intelligently to the meta. That should encourage diversifying away from Spellbreaker. It's a dialogue between you and the meta. Don't go running to ANet to change the rules so you can win more lol.

People have been vomitting CC well before Spellbreaker stepped up a bit.

It's only "dominating" because people didn't need to take Warriors serious for years and are surprised by seeing Spellbreaker being somewhat effective after years of Warrior being little more than a joke. And it's only "dominating" those who just copy builds from somewhere on the internet and are unwillingly to adapt or personalize those builds to fit them better.

Once people get used to it and learned how to fight it, I doubt a good Spellbreaker will be much more of a threat than a good Vindicator. There is no need for pre-emptive nerfs.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[shion.2084]

On 12/19/2022 at 10:23 AM, Eugchriss.2046 said:

I ve never understood this argument. Who CC without following up with dmg?

I think the idea is if someone has soooo many stuns and some of them differ in lengths... you're supposed to figure out if your class can just eat the short one. Yeah, I break if I'm stunned by default as well.   

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

3 hours ago, Anonynja.3172 said:

Counterplay, man. Every class needs counterplay. Spellbreaker is dominating the meta. CC is its counter. People are bringing more CC because they're responding intelligently to the meta. That should encourage diversifying away from Spellbreaker. It's a dialogue between you and the meta. Don't go running to ANet to change the rules so you can win more lol.

Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing more Deadeyes in particular but also untamed to +1 and apply pressure from range. Most SpB would die or at least have to concede the node in such situations.

 

The counters are out there; people just need to start using them.

[Farseer.1349]

On 12/16/2022 at 7:57 PM, The Boz.2038 said:

Sane people asked for grace period for CC and conditions you stunbreak/cleanse.
Those sane people were drowned out by some very loud voices every single time.

Oh. You can call it not grace period, but temporal immunity. Just to prevent chain control. Otherwise you have no chance even with 3-4 stunbreakers.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Farseer.1349 said:

Oh. You can call it not grace period, but temporal immunity. Just to prevent chain control. Otherwise you have no chance even with 3-4 stunbreakers.

 

Ok, but if you are immune to stunlocking the cc should damage you directly instead of critting you for 7 damage like it currently does.  :} 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

4 hours ago, Farseer.1349 said:

Oh. You can call it not grace period, but temporal immunity. Just to prevent chain control. Otherwise you have no chance even with 3-4 stunbreakers.

Stability is the game's built in mechanic for providing a "temporal immunity" or whatever we want to call it. The problem is that many classes/professions don't have access to on-demand stability on a reasonable CD. 

[Eddie.9143]

On 12/21/2022 at 5:05 PM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing more Deadeyes in particular but also untamed to +1 and apply pressure from range. Most SpB would die or at least have to concede the node in such situations.

 

The counters are out there; people just need to start using them.

Already been practicing deadeye. Gonna pull it out soon and Doo Doo all over the spb

[Fueki.4753]

8 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Stability is the game's built in mechanic for providing a "temporal immunity" or whatever we want to call it.

Specifically, it used to be a temporary immunity.

But eventually, they changed it from a few seconds of immunity to the simple stacks we have now.

They really should make it a period of immunity again and remove it from the strip/corrupt table.

There's too much CC spam in the game to have Stability remain in its pitifully weak state.

In exchange, CC abilities should all do reasonable damage again, except for Vital Draw. That one shouldn't have damage.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Bazsi.2734]

I dont like getting CC-d. I want to press my buttons and see the victory screen, but those meanies won't let me. REEEEEEEEE!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Specifically, it used to be a temporary immunity.

But eventually, they changed it from a few seconds of immunity to the simple stacks we have now.

They really should make it a period of immunity again and remove it from the strip/corrupt table.

There's too much CC spam in the game to have Stability remain in its pitifully weak state.

In exchange, CC abilities should all do reasonable damage again, except for Vital Draw. That one shouldn't have damage.

I think part of the problem that caused them to make the change in the first place was that there were too many CC-immunity frames leading CC to be useless, so those builds didn't have a place. NGL, I think moving to stacks was a bad idea, but I don't want to go back to where you could never secure the CC either.

If they go back to the temporary immunity, it would have to be in small windows, long enough to secure casting 1 skill essentially, and they would have to not stack in duration. We could give out more sources of stability then, like giving Necros Stab in Soul Reaping again but not enough to be completely immune to CCs. But yeah, I think they'd also have to give Hard CC's damage back as well.

[Fueki.4753]

24 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think part of the problem that caused them to make the change in the first place was that there were too many CC-immunity frames leading CC to be useless, so those builds didn't have a place. NGL, I think moving to stacks was a bad idea, but I don't want to go back to where you could never secure the CC either.

If they go back to the temporary immunity, it would have to be in small windows, long enough to secure casting 1 skill essentially, and they would have to not stack in duration. We could give out more sources of stability then, like giving Necros Stab in Soul Reaping again but not enough to be completely immune to CCs. But yeah, I think they'd also have to give Hard CC's damage back as well.

In my opinion, CC being significantly less successful would be one step in the right direction.

If they aren't addressing Stability, the should address the CC themselves. They could finally give players a Defiance bar. They could give CC abilities a chance to disable players, rather than always disabling.

And that's just two ideas. But CC needs to be less over-bearing to make sPvP more engaging. If CC-spamming builds become redundant as a consequence, that's an easily acceptable result.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

In my opinion, CC being significantly less successful would be one step in the right direction.

If they aren't addressing Stability, the should address the CC themselves. They could finally give players a Defiance bar. They could give CC abilities a chance to disable players, rather than always disabling.

And that's just two ideas. But CC needs to be less over-bearing to make sPvP more engaging. If CC-spamming builds become redundant as a consequence, that's an easily acceptable result.

If Defiance bars happen then there should be no stability and there should be an exposed effect.

[Fueki.4753]

45 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

If Defiance bars happen then there should be no stability and there should be an exposed effect.

If the bar is broken, players get the disable that broke the bar. That should be enough. An exposed period where players take increased damage, while there are the stupidly high bursts that currently exist, should not happen.

The point is to make CC less over-bearing, not even worse than it currently is.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Fueki.4753