The 4th specialization, what is left for the class?

[kharmin.7683]

4 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Since when an elite is created for pve, pvp or wvw?

 

Druid seems built for raids (since it was released with them)

Soulbeast seems built for WvW

Untamed seems built for PvP

[Arheundel.6451]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Druid seems built for raids (since it was released with them)

Soulbeast seems built for WvW

Untamed seems built for PvP

They are used in all gamemodes, as you see, to claim that an elite should be good just for a gamemode it's not anet plans. You still need to explain what ranger would need a rifle for....to play ranged? We have already plenty of ranged weapons...the most among all classes and people want another ranged weapon because....hunter theme.

And you know what? I actually would see a rifle ranger despite what I am saying, the problem is that what is required to make it work is very unlikely to be given to ranger:

Unblockable AoE ranged?....no chance 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Arheundel.6451

[Dadnir.5038]

6 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Since when an elite is created for pve, pvp or wvw? People spend money to play an elite so it matters not what people like to play, if the weapon is not acceptable in all game modes then it's useless and not worth the money. Even more important is the mechanic behind the weapon itself, as long as the mechanic is solid....few cares about the weapon. Soulbeast is the favourite elite because it can be played everywhere and with any weapon, same argument with Druid to a minor lesser scale..but Untamed, right now can't be played effectively without hammer and we want avoid a similar issue.

Even with untamed, it may have been based on a gw1 concept, but they still tried to build something widely usable : "thematic" is no worth money or development time and widely unaccepted 

Given the plethora of blocks/reflect in the game, every class now farts reflects...longbow is virtually useless outside some gimmick one shot sic'em with the Hunter Signet...where you fire entire utility bar in the hope of killing some Timmy who strayed far from the flock and likewise longbow is not used by the pve playerbase who prefer axes, GS, hammer,shortbow. 

The devs could probably create a 100% melee rifle, after seeing the mesmer's laser beam GS and the revenant's throwing hammer I wouldn't even find it strange. It could be used either like a hammer by wielding it upside down or like a spear with a bayonnet.

[Kal Durak.2830]

20 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

They are used in all gamemodes, as you see, to claim that an elite should be good just for a gamemode it's not anet plans. You still need to explain what ranger would need a rifle for....to play ranged? We have already plenty of ranged weapons...the most among all classes and people want another ranged weapon because....hunter theme.

And you know what? I actually would see a rifle ranger despite what I am saying, the problem is that what is required to make it work is very unlikely to be given to ranger:

Unblockable AoE ranged?....no chance 

 

They are not used AT ALL in WvW where I play.

[Kodama.6453]

10 hours ago, DtenCfour.3567 said:

They are not used AT ALL in WvW where I play.

I see quite alot of rangers while roaming in WvW. Saying that they are not used at all in WvW is not really accurate, if anything you could say they are not used in zerg play in WvW (not sure about that either, I am not playing in big WvW zergs but I heard druid is pretty good as a healer?).

[kharmin.7683]

On 1/3/2023 at 2:50 PM, Arheundel.6451 said:

They are used in all gamemodes, as you see, to claim that an elite should be good just for a gamemode it's not anet plans. You still need to explain what ranger would need a rifle for....to play ranged? We have already plenty of ranged weapons...the most among all classes and people want another ranged weapon because....hunter theme.

And you know what? I actually would see a rifle ranger despite what I am saying, the problem is that what is required to make it work is very unlikely to be given to ranger:

Unblockable AoE ranged?....no chance 

 

Used in all game modes?  Sure, but my point was that the particular elite builds were designed to perform better in particular game modes so I was questioning what else Anet could possibly build for.

As for rifle? I've never advocated for that, so I have nothing to explain.

[enkeny.6937]

Off-hand sword?

I vote for an off-hand weapon (in order: shield, sword, focus) or scepter

I would like to see a 'warden' with a shield and preparation/glamour (maybe deception/manipulation) skills. Not with blocks, instead combo fields and/or stealth. Also a pet stat rework like the mechanists (a base stat+ portions of your gear stats)
Or a mesmer like tamer with a scepter and shouts (that always affect the pets). Teleporting and cloning the pet.
maybe no pet swap during combat but some class mechanic for revive. (works with both version)

P.S.:
Quickness supports sounds good, but:
a) need to remove alacrity from core and then no core alacrity provider for people without expansions.
b) make a trait to change Nature's Vengeance alacrity to quickness. (feels a bit weird, but it is like fervent force+Nature's Vengeance)
c) ok, we can give quickness, but at least 4 skill slot needed. (no room for spirits)
 

[Levetty.1279]

I went with Rifle over scepter because Ranger doesn't have any good off hands to go with a main hand aoe weapon. Non projectile would be a lot better for WvW though.

They should have used Staff for the ranged aoe non projectile weapon but they wasted it on Druid.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

25 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

I went with Rifle over scepter because Ranger doesn't have any good off hands to go with a main hand aoe weapon. Non projectile would be a lot better for WvW though.

They should have used Staff for the ranged aoe non projectile weapon but they wasted it on Druid.

What does rifle add to ranger? There isn't much more you could add to ranger using rifle.

 

At least shield and scepter would add slots that ranger needs more combinations of- a new offhand or mainhand option.

[Levetty.1279]

4 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

What does rifle add to ranger?

Probably what is listed in the poll.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

2 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Probably what is listed in the poll.

Aaaand that would be broken. An unblockable AoE at high range would be so insanely broken.

[Levetty.1279]

4 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Aaaand that would be broken. An unblockable AoE at high range would be so insanely broken.

I really feel like that is something you should take up with the person who made the poll instead of the latest person to post in the thread but ok.

[draxynnic.3719]

18 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

I really feel like that is something you should take up with the person who made the poll instead of the latest person to post in the thread but ok.

The person who made the poll is perfectly capable of reading posts made in this thread, unless something outside of our knowledge has happened to prevent it. You were the most recent person to support the idea of "rifle which somehow gets an unblockable long range AoE", so it's fair game for someone to propose any reasoning they might have why that shouldn't or is unlikely to happen in response to your expression of support for that.

[Yasai.3549]

Shield - Throw it like a Chakram like Xena. Throw your pet too. Throw everything. 

[draxynnic.3719]

7 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Shield - Throw it like a Chakram like Xena. Throw your pet too. Throw everything. 

Chakrams would likely be focii. And with the variety of focus skins, that would certainly qualify as 'throwing everything'. 😛

[kharmin.7683]

7 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Shield - Throw it like a Chakram like Xena. Throw your pet too. Throw everything. 

Throw up.

[Levetty.1279]

On 1/9/2023 at 11:57 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

The person who made the poll is perfectly capable of reading posts made in this thread, unless something outside of our knowledge has happened to prevent it. You were the most recent person to support the idea of "rifle which somehow gets an unblockable long range AoE", so it's fair game for someone to propose any reasoning they might have why that shouldn't or is unlikely to happen in response to your expression of support for that.

It is also fair to ask you two to stop throwing a tantrum because somebody voted for a different option but I am going to guess you will still be upset that I did.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

1 hour ago, Levetty.1279 said:

It is also fair to ask you two to stop throwing a tantrum because somebody voted for a different option but I am going to guess you will still be upset that I did.

You're voting for the theme/something proposed that would be OP. How is it a tantrum to contest either of those?

 

Before you ask, voting for just thematic value is basically how we got untamed (bunny thumper).

[Levetty.1279]

Neither of you have contested anything I've said. I even had to explain that there was a vote in this thread to one of you.

 

11 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Before you ask, voting for just thematic value is basically how we got untamed (bunny thumper).

The only fun elite spec? Looks like voting worked.

 

Bring on Rifle.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 1/11/2023 at 8:07 PM, Levetty.1279 said:

Neither of you have contested anything I've said. I even had to explain that there was a vote in this thread to one of you.

 

I had that discussion on pages 2-3. I think this paragraph is representative:

 

And (the person I was responding to at the time was) missing the point that ranger rifle would most likely be just an alternative set of skills in much the same role as longbow already fills. We have precedent for how rifles behave. They're projectile-based, long range, and usually single-target-oriented. And given that ranger rifle would likely be downplaying the nature magic side rather than leaning into it, there's not much potential for magic to cause it to have funky physics-defying behaviour. Maybe you'd get a shotgun-style spread attack, but it wouldn't be effective at long range, and it wouldn't be an autoattack with range greater than flamethrower range (guardian staff was reworked primarily because of the effect the 'lootstick' had in WvW).

 

Rifle might well be cool, but rifle with a focus on non-projectile AoE abilities in order to rule WvW is not going to happen. Let alone unblockable AoW abilities.

 

On 1/11/2023 at 7:10 AM, Levetty.1279 said:

It is also fair to ask you two to stop throwing a tantrum because somebody voted for a different option but I am going to guess you will still be upset that I did.

Oh, hey, personal attacks. Neither of us are throwing a tantrum, just expressing opinions, and defending a right to express an opinion in response to someone else expressing an opinion.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Spear or rifle hunter spec be a natural extension of ranger imo.

[Kodama.6453]

6 hours ago, Logan.4796 said:

Bro spear is an aquatic only weapon..... Rangers only get Speargun and Spear underwater....

How do you have 6,600 posts and not know Spear is an aquatic only weapon?

They are probably aware that it is, but a not small part of the community advocates for making some underwater weapons usable on land. Spear is requested pretty often by people to get featured in a future elite spec.

Same thing as people requesting offhand weapons for mainhand in future elite specs. I have read way too often from people who want a shield mainhand weapon for an elite spec. These requests are very unlikely to actually happen, but that doesn't stop people from asking for it.

[Abyssisis.3971]

Any chance the people requesting rifle or an offhand weapon the same people that requested “bannyhumper” if so, please exit the ranger forum.

Whatever spec we get next has to be with a ranged 1 handed weapon to pair with the crapload of offhand weapons ranger already happens. #dontpigeonholeusintosword/xxxoraxe/xxxgameplay!

[Levetty.1279]

52 minutes ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

Any chance the people requesting rifle or an offhand weapon the same people that requested “bannyhumper” if so, please exit the ranger forum.

I'd rather the people who requested the most fun Ranger Elite spec stay and the gatekeeping troll leaves instead.

[Abyssisis.3971]

1 minute ago, Levetty.1279 said:

I'd rather the people who requested the most fun Ranger Elite spec stay and the gatekeeping troll leaves instead.

Well I don’t know who suggested soulbeast, but you are right, it is the most enjoyable spec.