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My Suggestion For a Mechanist Revamp.


Malus.2184

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Idea for redesigning Mechanist.

Mechanist has one major issue, it’s way to passive in how it works, and some things are way too good.

The mech is supposed to be a friend and ally of the Mechanist, and only the mech really benefits. Their co-existence is more parasitic in nature than symbiotic. And personally, I find that the big mech is just unpleasant visual clutter.

Visually, I would change the big mech to being several smaller drones. Takes up less visual real-estate and it’s still easy to see what’s up. The link is a visual representation of how much less space a Jade Bot uses compared to a Jade Mech.

https://imgur.com/a/2WkWohH

This idea is partly inspired by the addition of the Jade Bot pet and the old show Lexx.

Instead of one giant mech a Mechanist should have three? Smaller drones, Jade Bot sized I would suggest, that hovered around them. The animations for the mech commands would have to be changed to fit this new design.

The drones have three stages.

Inactive: This is when the drones are “dead” and recharging. Some of the passive benefits from the drones still work at a hugely diminished rate, like 90%

Active: the drones are hovering around the Mechanist. Mech commands and benefits from the mech still works and they’re reduced in duration and power by 66%.

Deployed: The drones act independently of the Mechanist; everything works at 100%

Active and deployed would be toggled by the F5 as now. Instead of a crash CC the drones when deployed would release a field of energy that did the same.

The mech being dead feels soi bad as it essentially turns the Mechanist into a fancy paper weight as they can provide nothing on their own. The inactive drones would still provide something so even if they were “dead” the Mechanist would still provide something instead of being just dead weight. This is one reason for the drones. This is especially true underwater. Since the Jade Bot miniature works underwater a modified version that used the same basic code would as well. This is another reason for the drones.

Mechanical Genius: Change this, completely. ¨

Mechanical Genius:

When within 700? Units of the Mechanist all boons gained by the Mechanist are shared with the drones. In addition, some of the Mechanist stats are shared with the drones.

Then remove the Boon-sharing from Shift Signet completely. It does WAY too much and being essentially forced to have it means that Mechanists have one less Utility Skill slot than everyone else.

New mechanic:

Feedback:

When using a Mech Command, the Mechanist Power damage, Condition Damage, and Damage Reduction is increased by 5% for 10? Seconds. This effect stacks duration.

This change is made to makes the relationship between the drones and the Mechanist symbiotic instead of parasitic. Now the mech provides something tangible to the Mechanist without needing a Grandmaster Trait. This change also affects how Signets work.

Barrier Signet

Passive: The Damage Reduction gained from Feedback is increased by 5% so it becomes 10%

Active: as now

Force Signet:

Passive: The Power damage increase gained from Feedback is increased by 5% so it becomes 10%

Active: As now

Superconducting Signet:

Active: The Condition damage increase gained from Feedback is increased by 5% so it becomes 10%

Active: As now

This change combined with the Mechanical Genius change makes it so that none of the signets feel mandatory, they’ll still be for maximum performance  and that’s the case with every maximum performance build. This way there would be more leeway and the Utility Skills could be used for situational utility without gimping the Mechanist too much.

These changes would hopefully make the Mechanist more interactive. The larger problem lies in the rifle itself and has nothing to do with the Mechanist. It’s just the Mechanist hat can take the most advantage of this.

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Some interesting ideas, but one problem I see is that you are solely focused on trying to repair the gameplay aspect of the mechanist, while ignoring the thematical aspects.

This drone mechanic would solve some thinks, but thematically it makes mechanist just another take of the scrapper. We already have drones with gyros, now you are reworking the mech to be the same just with a different power source (jade tech).

The thematical appeal of mechanist is having this one big robot buddy, while the scrapper is the rigger with the small drones flying around them.

I am also not sure if that really fixes the gameplay that much. How I understand it, your drones would start to work more like necromancer minions instead of a ranger pet. This comes with alot new trouble, since controlling them would be even more troublesome than the one mech we currently have we can also order to come to us or attack a selected target.

Also if there are 3 drones.... do signets create their effects around all 3 of them? Seems a bit excessive. So maybe just around one of the drones. But then, which one? And how are we controlling the effects, especially stuff like the barrier signet active?

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How would they work more like Necromancer pets?

And I would prefer something that's thematically like a Scrapper and with the functionality closer to a Mechanist than this. 

And I wrong in that when you hear 'drone' you think 'tiny'? Because you leave the impression that they would be tiny.

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12 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

How would they work more like Necromancer pets?

Because we are opeating with a small swarm now instead of a single pet (3 drones). Which might feel clunky if we have to control their movement.

The fact that important features like the barrier signet are put on the drones might be problematic. How do we control them? It is too much for the UI to have controls on "come to me" and "attack" for each seperate drone, but having them all swarm together might also be awkward.

14 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

And I would prefer something that's thematically like a Scrapper and with the functionality closer to a Mechanist than this. 

For you, that might be true. That doesn't mean everyone feels like this. I think the big robot buddy is a thematical appeal for many players of the mech.

15 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

And I wrong in that when you hear 'drone' you think 'tiny'? Because you leave the impression that they would be tiny.

You have 3 of them. If they are not tiny, they would block the screen too much. So either we make them tiny like gyros, or we make mechanist even more visually cluttered than it already is.

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7 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I wouldn't bet on a change of the mech visual. They would rather create a 100 skins selled through the black lion tradepost than change the visual of a single minion.

Also drones were scrapper's thing.

Ah, but you see, this is a missed gold mine for Anet:

Christmas Sweaters for your Flesh Golem, only 600 gems!

They would have to add in an interface to the wardrobe for reskinning minions, and weapon kits but in the end, you bet your paycheck that people would buy those skins.

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41 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Because we are opeating with a small swarm now instead of a single pet (3 drones). Which might feel clunky if we have to control their movement.

The fact that important features like the barrier signet are put on the drones might be problematic. How do we control them? It is too much for the UI to have controls on "come to me" and "attack" for each seperate drone, but having them all swarm together might also be awkward.

For you, that might be true. That doesn't mean everyone feels like this. I think the big robot buddy is a thematical appeal for many players of the mech.

You have 3 of them. If they are not tiny, they would block the screen too much. So either we make them tiny like gyros, or we make mechanist even more visually cluttered than it already is.

This entire argument presupposed that they would work that way. There can be controllable pets that are several models. It's just a visual change.

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1 hour ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Hate this idea. Mech is already treading on Scrapper's toes, and now you want to totally erase Scrapper?

 

How about, just stop playing Mech? Better yet, play Scrapper.

Even Better, adjust the quickness uptime sources for scrapper so i don't have to spam everything on cooldown, you know... Make it like alac mech, cmon...

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Before all, my apologies for any misspelling or accidental offence.

...

I think that the robot could behave like a drone only while "dismissed".

...

The reasons are:

  1. Allow underwater use of the robot.
  2. Turn the robot less passive.
  3. Turn the robot more interactive and fun to use.
  4. Raises the skill ceiling of the Mechanist.

Proposed steps:

  1. The robot could have 2 modes, the "land mode" (the current land robot) and an "aerial mode" (while "dismissed").
  2. The initial state of the robot could be "dismissed" (as the Mechanist in Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons Launch Trailer).
  3. The "aerial mode" could provide to the Mechanist an aditional set of 3 skills (F1, F2 and F3). These skils would be things that a drone or aerial unity can do for example.
    1. The F1 skill could follow the concept of "drone launched aerial attack". This skill already exists, it is the current "Aerial Support" of the overloaded Mech Core: J-Drive. The skill no longer would be passive, but instead could be moved to F1 active skill with a short cooldown (max 10 seconds) and a ground target fact. A range of 900 or 1200 would be perfect. The underwater version could require a target.
    2. The F2 skill could follow the concept of "reconnaissance". For example a ground target version of "Invisible Analysis" but with a differential that could work also on non-stealthed targets and always grant swiftness. A range of 900 or 1200 would be perfect. The underwater version could require a target or be triggered at the Mechanist's position.
    3. The F3 skill could follow the concept of "concealment". For example a ground target smoke screen much like "Shadow Refuge" but with a differential that additionaly heal downed allies. A range of 900 or 1200 would be perfect. The underwater version could require a target or be triggered at the Mechanist's position.
  4. The F4 skill (Crash Down) could be moved to F5 but the robot could start to move at most in 1 second after landing.
  5. The "land mode" robot could be drastically less passive.
  6. The "land mode" robot could be less passive by have less DPS capabilities with its auto-attack. It could for example only be able to auto-attack with the "High-Impact Drivers"  version using the "Hard Strike" chain with a reduced damage.
    1. F1, F2 and F3 skils still would be chosen via traits.
    2. The F1 skill could have a very short cooldown (max 10 seconds) with enough DPS capability.
    3. The F2 and F3 skills could have their cooldown drastically reduced.
    4. The F4 skill (Recall Mech) could be moved to F5 but the robot could start its "aerial mode" at most in 1 second.
Edited by Ze Ninguem.6708
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1 hour ago, Corvolupo.5708 said:

Even Better, adjust the quickness uptime sources for scrapper so i don't have to spam everything on cooldown, you know... Make it like alac mech, cmon...

You only need to spam everything off cd if you're trying to min-max dps along with it.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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6 hours ago, Corvolupo.5708 said:

It Is called: meta+questionable design.

"It's called meta"? You mean you trying to maximizze dps?

It's called you making a choice to maximize it and then complaining about your own choices. If you don't want to keep spamming utilities off dc to upkeep perma quickness, you can already do it. Not online that, but if that's your take on this, there's next to no solution to this """problem""" other than making the quickness delivery pretty much passive (or stupidly overloaded on duration), because you'll almost always be able to strip further to "activate x off cooldown just so you can further maximize dps". If you want to question design, first try understanding how you're causing your own ""problem"" here.

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12 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

"It's called meta"? You mean you trying to maximizze dps?

It's called you making a choice to maximize it and then complaining about your own choices. If you don't want to keep spamming utilities off dc to upkeep perma quickness, you can already do it. Not online that, but if that's your take on this, there's next to no solution to this """problem""" other than making the quickness delivery pretty much passive (or stupidly overloaded on duration), because you'll almost always be able to strip further to "activate x off cooldown just so you can further maximize dps". If you want to question design, first try understanding how you're causing your own ""problem"" here.

Sorry, but that argument makes no sense.

With that mindset, we never have to buff anything in the future anymore. "It's weak? That's just because you want to be efficient! If you stop worrying about that, you can still use this terribly bad skill, so it is absolutely fine and doesn't need any buffs at all!"

I actually don't mind using my gyros off cooldown all that much, but saying that the spam is someone else's own fault because they want to be efficient and they should stop doing that is nonsense.

Edited by Kodama.6453
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5 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Sorry, but that argument makes no sense.

With that mindset, we never have to buff anything in the future anymore. "It's weak? That's just because you want to be efficient! If you stop worrying about that, you can still use this terribly bad skill, so it is absolutely fine and doesn't need any buffs at all!"

I actually don't mind using my gyros off cooldown all that much, but saying that the spam is someone else's own fault because they want to be efficient and they should stop doing that is nonsense.

Nope, it's not the same, are you sure you understood what I wrote? Do you understand he can slot more gyros or get conc gear, but he doesn't want to because he wants to maximize dps and that's the reason for his "I need to spam it all the time off cd" complaint? It's a self-created problem struggling for "maximum efficiency", not just "efficiency".

Edited by Sobx.1758
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4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nope, it's not the same, are you sure you understood what I wrote? Do you understand he can slot more gyros or get conc gear, but he doesn't want to because he wants to maximize dps and that's the reason for his "I need to spam it all the time off cd" complaint? It's a self-created problem struggling for "maximum efficiency", not just "efficiency".

Not really, Is Indeed a design issue in this case. If you look at mech or firebrand  in their Hybrid support builds they both can mantain 100% uptime in the respective and most important boons without the sacrifice of proactive gameplay (the Ideal kind of gameplay in EVERY game of this kind imo). The problem are not those two build but all the others that have to spam every utility on cooldown Just to keep up on the efficency level and remain relevant DMG whise in the process.

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1 hour ago, Corvolupo.5708 said:

Not really, Is Indeed a design issue in this case. If you look at mech or firebrand  in their Hybrid support builds they both can mantain 100% uptime in the respective and most important boons without the sacrifice of proactive gameplay (the Ideal kind of gameplay in EVERY game of this kind imo). The problem are not those two build but all the others that have to spam every utility on cooldown Just to keep up on the efficency level and remain relevant DMG whise in the process.

Really? Mechanist that does it automatically, because they've enabled "autocast all those skills off cd" gameplay which is basically one of the sources of it being a problematic design in the first place is your "go to" example of good design? Perhaps it really is just a subjective point of view, but I can't say I agree with what you consider being "good" design/gameplay-wise. As already mentioned before though, slot more gyros or get conc and you'll have space for more pro-active gameplay too btw. You're striving specifically for "lets slot as little of [this] as possible so I can [maximize dps] instead" gameplay/build and then complain that you're pushing the limits of efficiency by "having to spam those skills off cooldown". I mean... If you want to min-max, that's what it will be. It's not like you don't have an option to play more laid back/pro-active quick scrap, it's that you're choosing to not do it because you'd rather use build someone squeezed towards maximizing dps as much as they could.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Really? Mechanist that does it automatically, because they've enabled "autocast all those skills off cd" gameplay which is basically one of the sources of it being a problematic design in the first place is your "go to" example of good design? Perhaps it really is just a subjective point of view, but I can't say I agree with what you consider being good design/gameplay-wise. As already mentioned before though, slot more gyros or get conc and you'll have space for more pro-active gameplay too btw.

You missed the point. I was talking about Hybrid support builds in this case and yes the mech Is a good design support wise because his traitline (central One) Is cohesive with the intended gameplay. Barriers pulse on passive from the mech and therefore generate alacrity for the group, then ofcourse you have to bring in more barriers proc for alac trigger but the passive help the support side in a way that incentivate proactive gameplay and decision making in a fight, so... yes.

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6 minutes ago, Corvolupo.5708 said:

You missed the point. I was talking about Hybrid support builds in this case and yes the mech Is a good design support wise because his traitline (central One) Is cohesive with the intended gameplay. Barriers pulse on passive from the mech and therefore generate alacrity for the group, then ofcourse you have to bring in more barriers proc for alac trigger but the passive help the support side in a way that incentivate proactive gameplay and decision making in a fight, so... yes.

Hybrid support as in q/alac +heal specifically? From the previous posts I understood it as qdps/adps builds, especially since I've mentioned "maximizing dps" and you've responded with "it's called meta".

Also while you were typing I've added some more:

You're striving specifically for "lets slot as little of [this] as possible so I can [maximize dps] instead" gameplay/build and then complain that you're pushing the limits of efficiency by "having to spam those skills off cooldown". I mean... If you want to min-max, that's what it will be. It's not like you don't have an option to play more laid back/pro-active quick scrap, it's that you're choosing to not do it because you'd rather use build someone squeezed towards maximizing dps as much as they could.

That was also within the context of qdps. Just "making stuff passive" is a rather bad gameplay design for me.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Hybrid support as in q/alac +heal specifically? From the previous posts I understood it as qdps/adps builds, especially since I've mentioned "maximizing dps" and you've responded with "it's called meta".

Also while you were typing I've added some more:

You're striving specifically for "lets slot as little of [this] as possible so I can [maximize dps] instead" gameplay/build and then complain that you're pushing the limits of efficiency by "having to spam those skills off cooldown". I mean... If you want to min-max, that's what it will be. It's not like you don't have an option to play more laid back/pro-active quick scrap, it's that you're choosing to not do it because you'd rather use build someone squeezed towards maximizing dps as much as they could.

Just "making stuff passive" is a rather bad gameplay design for me.

Yes i was talking about q/alac dps. "Making stuff passive"Is not what i mean, Is making the Key factor of a designed role a core feature. In this case, alac dps mech full central line, May appear boring but is the only way to free the user and engage more with the actual mechanics of a fight and react to what you are actually seeing happening on the screen. Regarding scrapper instead: if you want to remain relevant in the DMG department being Hybrid, you must spam your utilities cause the scrapper Is not a cohesive spec, anet want It to be support but It does not have a core trait line that really make It be so. Before, they wanted him like a bruiser, but It was durable and that's all, we don't Need a real tank in gw2. The very First iteration was a disaster cause they changed the idea of the spec in the middle of creating It. Of course i can change my stats or/and bring in more gyro to spam a Little less, but It will hurt the DMG department a lot and worst of all, It will still be a pretty much spammy gameplay. Yeh i can save 1 utility when i need It now... Meh, 1 utility, not much.

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9 minutes ago, Corvolupo.5708 said:

Yes i was talking about q/alac dps. "Making stuff passive"Is not what i mean, Is making the Key factor of a designed role a core feature. In this case, alac dps mech full central line, May appear boring but is the only way to free the user and engage more with the actual mechanics of a fight and react to what you are actually seeing happening on the screen. Regarding scrapper instead: if you want to remain relevant in the DMG department being Hybrid, you must spam your utilities cause the scrapper Is not a cohesive spec, anet want It to be support but It does not have a core trait line that really make It be so. Before, they wanted him like a bruiser, but It was durable and that's all, we don't Need a real tank in gw2. The very First iteration was a disaster cause they changed the idea of the spec in the middle of creating It. Of course i can change my stats or/and bring in more gyro to spam a Little less, but It will hurt the DMG department a lot and worst of all, It will still be a pretty much spammy gameplay. Yeh i can save 1 utility when i need It now... Meh, 1 utility, not much.

Notice how mech brings conc in its alac dps build, but you refuse to do so because you need to get more dps. It is really nothing more than the choice you're making (it doesn't really hurt the damage as much as you apparently think it does, you're still meaningfully contributing -but who knows what you mean by that vague "a lot").

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