Guardian Hammer

[Coltz.5617]

  We've been having trouble using hammers practically for years now, I wonder if we can get the Guardian Hammer to a respectable polish? I think it needs to be faster, but simply lowering CD wouldn't work as most of that time is being taken during the looooong animation. The time before the skill activates takes too long, if you must have some kind of delay its better to have it after the skill is launched. Forcibly having the animation delay just feels wonky with CD timer.

 

Any other views on Guardian Hammers is welcomed.

 

Thanks for notice

Edited December 21, 2022 by Coltz.5617

[SleepyBat.9034]

I do have a Willbender build that runs hammer in WvW and I use Superior Sigils of Rage/Celerity on my hammer to maximize quickness. I enjoy my 8k Glacial Blows.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAwyJlhy+YqMQ2IWsX9RPA-zVRYVR3DO4TJMhQgKgWFB9KB04hIM/1ohXLAA-w

[Coltz.5617]

Im a FB condition dps, i use axe and torch and hammer when i need sustain myself. I see hammer for its protect sigil and utility.

 

its interesting if power dps works practically in wvw but i dont have sword teleport, and sustained quickness to compensate since im trying to make condi guardian work well xD.

thnx for the share.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Coltz.5617

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Hammer and mace are just too slow for PvE really. 

[Vinny.7260]

Hammer, from a PvP perspective, has always been used as a one-shot burst wombo-combo weapon. It was more popular during the Core Medi Guard era from forever ago.

Unfortunately it has fallen behind due to the increase of mobility across the board, the damage not lining up for the effort of landing it, etc.

You can't cleave people into panicking with Hammer auto due to it being slow, you can't really make people panic with Hammer 4 since it knocks enemies too far away to hit them with Hammer 2. Hammer 5 is far too slow and movement-locks you. There's also the issue with Hammer requiring JI to, more likely, land Hammer 2... But requires sacrificing a very important stun break on a 40s cool down to land.

Hammer requires comboing multiple skills to try to land your burst and that has become practically impossible to do with specs that were originally slow becoming faster and harder to hit. (Like Harbinger).

There was some testing with Hammer and Sword/Sword being used on Willbender with the massive increase to mobility and our new teleport (our F3) becoming an AoE you can target, grants Stability, and pulses an AoE on the ground... Unfortunately it lacked sustain compared to Greatsword with Leap of Faith healing for 1.1k per hit, GS 2 hitting multiple times to activate F1-F3 more often, having a pull that we can bait people in to dodging and our GS 4 skill granting Resolution to increase our critical hit chance.

A handful of things would need to be done to Hammer to give it a better place, at least in PvP. Our knockback would have to actually be rewarding to land, aside from just interrupting or potentially getting a dangerous person away.

TL;DR: Too hard to land anything, especially with EoD specs around.

 

 

-----

Nerdy Suggestions below:

A suggestion of mine is to move Symbol of Protection to Ring of Warding to put a pulsing AoE inside of the Ring, justifying some extra danger. Further this by making Symbol of Protection, and Lesser Symbol of Protection, also pulse Chill while Glacial Heart is equipped and you've got yourself a much more dangerous Hammer 5 button with a fair cool down.

The end-chain on Hammer would still grant Protection but in an AoE with one instance rather than a Symbol. (Perhaps like 2.5s of Protection rather than 1s).

Another suggestion is to give Banish its damage back since it sends its target flying away and can't combo (Mighty) Glacial Blow afterwards without JI-ing, Ring of Warding, or knocking into a wall. There's also the idea of just lowering the distance it knocks enemies back the point it would be JUST in range of the PBAoE of (Mighty) Glacial Blow. (About 450 distance launch would nail this).

Zealot's Embrace needs a little more for how unreliable the skill is to land against moving targets, perhaps adding some Vulnerability to bring it closer to a dangerous skill. Could also experiment with giving it a PBAoE Blind to punish enemies up close and set the Guardian up to land a burst without being interrupted as easily. The last idea is just give it ammo and call it a day.

 

That's my perspective on Guardian Hammer right now.

[Coltz.5617]

Yes, I feel heavily restricted with hammer for these reasons as well.  especiallyvwhen j watch my HP go down while my guardian is doing a cebtury long hammdr lift on basic hit 3 before he makes that protect sigil.

 

 

[Gehenna.3625]

It feels slow and key skills can all too easily be interrupted (I play WvW a lot).

I mean, I can only give my personal experience, but even though I think hammers are cool I just don't really use them because of these two reasons.

On 12/22/2022 at 6:07 AM, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

Hammer and mace are just too slow for PvE really. 

Just think about using it in WvW

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

The boon from Symbol of Protection is very short and of very little use. To make it work, you have to stick to the AA and even then you should have quickness, because it is really slow.

As far as I've understood, ANet wants to get rid of Stability spam and replaced a lot of its sources (various classes) with Protection instead. If Protection is really not THAT bad, it should not create a huge imbalance to increase its duration on the hammer AA combo? I mean, the field lasts twice as long anyway.

The Glacial Heart, which is the only way to boost the hammer directly, is also kind of lackluster. It is 3 seconds chilled, but only on CC and only one of the skills is changed slightly. Other weapon-traits feature bonuses like reduced recharge-time and higher outgoing damage.

I'm currently working on another approach for Guardian + Hammer. Not on a meta-level, but something that is somewhat fluid to control. Very big thanks to @SleepyBat.9034, this was very inspiring. It is not exactly what I am going to do, but it gave me a push in the right direction ^^.

[PolarBear.3961]

Make it faster and remove the symbol from the auto attack. Add the symbol to 2. Rework 5 and change the garbage no dmg bubble to something that actually works and is useful. Oh yeah and remake the knockback from 3 into a stun.

Edited December 26, 2022 by PolarBear.3961

[SleepyBat.9034]

4 hours ago, PolarBear.3961 said:

Make it faster and remove the symbol from the auto attack. Add the symbol to 2

This idea is good, but I don't know about the others. Ring of Warding is a fun skill when you combine it with Judge's Intervention.

[PolarBear.3961]

The bubble never works for me :/. For me its a dead skill thats why I want the knockback reworked into a stun so the bubble can get a rework too.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Just moving the symbol to #2 to speed up the autoattack will improve hammer by leaps and bounds. We should also probably get another boon besides Protection on the kit.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[SleepyBat.9034]

9 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

We should also probably get another boon besides Protection on the kit.

Don't you think, maybe that guardian has enough boons in its trait-lines already?

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

4 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Don't you think, maybe that guardian has enough boons in its trait-lines already?

Guardian traditional gets its boons from weapons, with its off-hand weapons (focus and shield) being particularly overloaded with both boons and utility that account for a large chunk of its survival. This inevitably makes two-handed weapons weaker; greatsword only makes up for it by having good damage.

 

Currently there's little to no reason to ever use 2H over 1H, which doesn't help hammer's cause. Protection is also spammed alot more than when hammer was designed.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[hash.8462]

Maybe I'm missing something... why some people asking for a faster AA when Anet altready made it faster? (August 23, 2022) At the moment the full AA chain takes about 2.8s to complete, the same of Warrior's Hammer AA and Scrapper's Hammer AA.

The only skills I think need a faster activation are #3, #4 and especially #5.

[SleepyBat.9034]

I think the 3, 4, and 5 feel fine with quickness.

[SleepyBat.9034]

1 hour ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Guardian traditional gets its boons from weapons, with its off-hand weapons (focus and shield) being particularly overloaded with both boons and utility that account for a large chunk of its survival. This inevitably makes two-handed weapons weaker; greatsword only makes up for it by having good damage.

Hammer has more cc then any of the other weapons, I really don't find this argument very convincing. What boons were you thinking of anyway?

1 hour ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Currently there's little to no reason to ever use 2H over 1H, which doesn't help hammer's cause. Protection is also spammed alot more than when hammer was designed.

That's clearly false, people run great sword and staff all the time. The bit about protection is nonsense, your argument is that because guardian has way more protection now then it did in the past it needs more boons? That's true for all the weapons, not just hammer because guardian traits are so boon heavy.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

6 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Hammer has more cc then any of the other weapons, I really don't find this argument very convincing. What boons were you thinking of anyway?

That's clearly false, people run great sword and staff all the time. The bit about protection is nonsense, your argument is that because guardian has way more protection now then it did in the past it needs more boons? That's true for all the weapons, not just hammer because guardian traits are so boon heavy.

Staff is a boon weapon, granting Swiftness and Might..

[SleepyBat.9034]

3 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Staff is a boon weapon, granting Swiftness and Might..

It's also the dedicated support weapon, what's your point?

[Gehenna.3625]

3 hours ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Don't you think, maybe that guardian has enough boons in its trait-lines already?

well let's compare it to ele's, shall we?

[SleepyBat.9034]

29 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

well let's compare it to ele's, shall we?

I don't see how that changes anything.

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

I don't see how that changes anything.

It was a joke. I guess, you didn't get it.

[SleepyBat.9034]

9 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

It was a joke. I guess, you didn't get it.

Oh, hard to tell in text.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

7 hours ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Hammer has more cc then any of the other weapons, I really don't find this argument very convincing. What boons were you thinking of anyway?

That's clearly false, people run great sword and staff all the time. The bit about protection is nonsense, your argument is that because guardian has way more protection now then it did in the past it needs more boons? That's true for all the weapons, not just hammer because guardian traits are so boon heavy.

Focus grants aegis. Shield grants protection and aegis. Depending on traits, the utility offered by these skills can also grant additional aegis, protection, healing, might, fury, resolution, or resistance. Shield also has CC but not nearly as much as hammer. You can put me in the camp for faster hammer animations. Some uninterruptable frames would be nice too for 1 or 2 skills.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Gaiawolf.8261

[SleepyBat.9034]

53 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Focus grants aegis. Shield grants protection and aegis. Depending on traits, the utility offered by these skills can also grant additional aegis, protection, healing, might, fury, resolution, or resistance. Shield also has CC but not nearly as much as hammer. You can put me in the camp for faster hammer animations. Some uninterruptable frames would be nice too for 1 or 2 skills.

Focus doesn't give aegis, do you mean the block mechanic on the 5th skill?