Guardian Hammer

[Phyrak.7260]

My two cents on this topic;

The slow auto attack has felt as if it has held hammer back a little.

Having hammer be the CC weapon is on par with design mindset - it's just that the gameplay feels like it is still stuck in 2012.

In the same way that mace is able to reset/charge a virtue attack with it's 3 - hammer should do something similar with protection and cc.

As mentioned earlier in the thread or maybe I read it on another thread, gaining protection on hit instead of the symbol for auto would make a little more sense for removing the clunkiness.

On 1/13/2023 at 1:24 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Actually, you know what could be cool?

Remove or at least substantially reduce the 'charging up' part of the animation on the third part of the autoattack chain. Make the hammer visible start charging up with each of the previous hits instead. Slow down the previous hits so the overall time of the chain is about the same.

Reduce the coefficient of the direct strike portion of the third hammer strike down to 0.8.

Instead, the second hammer strike provides an effect that increases the damage of your next strike by 25%.

This would present a choice: you can finish the autoattack chain to plant that symbol. Or you could choose to deliberately interrupt that chain and use some other skill to get a big damage boost on that skill instead.

There. That would actually increase hammer's unique character rather than decreasing it, while creating an interaction that makes it more attractive to use the other skills. Unlike guardian's general tendency to rely on multiple small strikes, however, this would encourage using single-hit skills with high coefficients, which might also increase the viability of utilities such as Smite Condition, Hammer of Wisdom, Test of Faith, Dragon's Maw, and Heaven's Palm.

This is very well stated and that 25% bonus damage would mean it could play into a number of styles - also with weapon swap if it could stack numerically across with X number of hits.

The other parts of this is Zealot's embrace feels a little lacking in my personal opinion.

Moving the symbol to 3 with an AoE call down that pulses protection to allies and immobilize/cripple on foes in the symbol would be appropriate for the weapon.

Ring of warding could also be a solid contestant for a symbol, but I honestly forget about the skill sometimes...more useful in pvp/wvw perhaps - yet in the same place is where the auto struggles.

Perhaps making it a proc like Zealot's flame/torch 4? 

Tap to gain Zealot's ward - gain protection/stability, foes are immobilized.

Skill switches to Zealot's gavel - crush your foes under the might of holy light. Bonus damage against immobilized foes. Damage bonus is increased to 33% on next hit. Foes are knocked down/stunned for Z seconds - whatever numbers and balance works best.

This would work as focus on the close brawler mindset with a heavy leaning on cc which the Guardian hammer is known for.

While letting it become a trading, slow and hard hitting power house making it a more formidable weapon.

The trait itself would move more in line with the sword in being able to proc multiple Zealot's gavel in the same way that Zealot's flame can occur before going on cooldown.

Just some pie in the sky thoughts 🙂

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 12/31/2022 at 5:07 PM, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

AA -- make it the speed of a normal AA chain

2 -- increase leap range to 600

3 -- make the skill actually hit moving targets

4 -- reduce cast time to 0.5s

5 -- now is a 600 range leap that places the ring + a full 5 second symbol of protection upon landing. The ring also blocks projectiles

Those first 4 sound really good. I don't agree with the last one, I feel like it's a bit much.

[Kraav.8136]

I remember posting feedback during beta testing about Guardian Hammer 1 attack change, only took this long to get them to shave half a second off HAH!

[Veneratio.1980]

Is the reduced attack speed  AA on Hammer gonna make any significant difference?

[cletiscake.9173]

I have always played Hammer specifically because of the constant protection uptime. I find that it works way better than shield / mace for face tanking mobs. I run FB with a mixture of DPS trait and Minstrels gear. It works really well for solo / group play. Use staff for ranged / support as secondary swap.

 

I would hate to see the protection symbol removed. It would completely ruin hammer guard for me. 

 

I dont see why hammer needs more DPS to compete. Hammer is its own thing. Can it be more useful? Sure. But I wouldnt want to sacrifice what it currently does in order to support a completely unrelated playstyle.

[Saiyan.1704]

Make Banish a port option after landing a hit... don't just put it on Mighty Blow. 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

I think they're going for more skill combos, rather than just toggle skills. The last balance patch they did it with elementalist scepter. 

[Zuko.7132]

1 hour ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Make Banish a port option after landing a hit... don't just put it on Mighty Blow. 

Would be great for landing hammer ring. I support this.

[Yasai.3549]

1 hour ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Make Banish a port option after landing a hit... don't just put it on Mighty Blow. 

No thanks, I'm not interested in meeting free porting Hammer 5. 

We all know what's gonna happen: 
DH Hammer 5 port > traps traps traps traps since they no longer need to run JI
Obnoxious AF and no bloody thanks.
 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[Saiyan.1704]

1 minute ago, Yasai.3549 said:

No thanks, I'm not interested in meeting free porting Hammer 5. 

We all know what's gonna happen: 
DH Hammer 5 port > traps traps traps > oh you survived my trap card > JI
Obnoxious AF and no bloody thanks.
 

You mean Judges out to... another trap combo or just away? In your scenario all the traps are used, so it's not  like you're going to land another traps traps traps on anybody after your initial Judges port with hammer. That and Guard as a whole could really use that escape card on ALL of our specs assuming you can even land a very-melee-oriented Banish, then quickly target some one else on the map for a quick port away within that 3 second window. (this would be awesome btw)

If Banish has a port on hit, it would obviously be on a short timer. Not like you can keep a free port for 30 seconds. A 3 second free port to use for Mighty Blow or anything, is all you need.

[Yasai.3549]

1 hour ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

You mean Judges out to... another trap combo or just away? In your scenario all the traps are used, so it's not  like you're going to land another traps traps traps on anybody after your initial Judges port with hammer. That and Guard as a whole could really use that escape card on ALL of our specs assuming you can even land a very-melee-oriented Banish, then quickly target some one else on the map for a quick port away within that 3 second window. (this would be awesome btw)

If Banish has a port on hit, it would obviously be on a short timer. Not like you can keep a free port for 30 seconds. A 3 second free port to use for Mighty Blow or anything, is all you need.

Point is, you don't randomly give weapons gameplay tools just because it will make a certain playstyle better.

 

Hammer as a whole is a defensive weapon with CC and area denial zone, so it should be reinforcing its area denial identity and not go for something as obnoxious as a built in port just because people wanna use Hammer as a burst weapon. 

 

You don't look at GS for example and go "you know what, we need a teleport with this weapon because it will make GS5 surprise catches easier to pull off."

As others have mentioned, just make Mighty/Glacial blow leap a longer distance.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[Saiyan.1704]

1 hour ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Point is, you don't randomly give weapons gameplay tools just because it will make a certain playstyle better.

 

Hammer as a whole is a defensive weapon with CC and area denial zone, so it should be reinforcing its area denial identity and not go for something as obnoxious as a built in port just because people wanna use Hammer as a burst weapon. 

 

You don't look at GS for example and go "you know what, we need a teleport with this weapon because it will make GS5 surprise catches easier to pull off."

As others have mentioned, just make Mighty/Glacial blow leap a longer distance.

Hammer was never a defensive weapon. It was first a Burst weapon with the Virtues trait Glacial Heart at its core.  That gave Hammer#2 nearly a 2k additional burst. It was so strong that it became meta for a given time in tournaments. That was 100% it's identity for a very long time until Anet gave it nerfs.

You and I can both agree that Hammer is trying to rediscover it's identity as a weapon but the current changes to Hammer#3 barrier, Mighty Blow port and AA quicker attacks.... are purely QoL features that players have simply been asking about. Sure it's fun when fighting a Moose or getting beat down by a random NPC warrior in Heart of the Mists but it's not going to be a significant buff in competitive PvE/WvW/PvP by any stretch.

Greatsword outshines hammer by a LOT so if you don't want to give hammer gameplay tools then what else should we give it? More barriers?

[Yasai.3549]

11 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Hammer was never a defensive weapon. It was first a Burst weapon with the Virtues trait Glacial Heart at its core.  That gave Hammer#2 nearly a 2k additional burst. It was so strong that it became meta for a given time in tournaments. That was 100% it's identity for a very long time until Anet gave it nerfs.

You and I can both agree that Hammer is trying to rediscover it's identity as a weapon but the current changes to Hammer#3 barrier, Mighty Blow port and AA quicker attacks.... are purely QoL features that players have simply been asking about. Sure it's fun when fighting a Moose or getting beat down by a random NPC warrior in Heart of the Mists but it's not going to be a significant buff in competitive PvE/WvW/PvP by any stretch.

Greatsword outshines hammer by a LOT so if you don't want to give hammer gameplay tools then what else should we give it? More barriers?

Yes it is, and it doesn't mean Defensive weapons cannot burst. Adding a port to it will make it rival GS as an aggressive weapon. Alot of things "can burst" but it's the design of the weapon if it is meant to be aggressively sticking to its target, or to deny aggression by being strong in a controlled area. 

Of all things Hammer needs, it's definitely not a Teleport of any sort. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Hammer was never a defensive weapon. It was first a Burst weapon with the Virtues trait Glacial Heart at its core.  That gave Hammer#2 nearly a 2k additional burst. It was so strong that it became meta for a given time in tournaments. That was 100% it's identity for a very long time until Anet gave it nerfs.

Glacial Heart didn't even exist when the game was released. Sure, it was introduced pretty soon afterwards, but even when it was first introduced, all it did was produce a pretty stingy amount of chill - adding damage didn't come until a year afterwards, and the current functionality didn't come until much, much later (the modification to hammer skill 2 came in late 2018). Hammer certainly wasn't originally a burst weapon based on Glacial Heart. But it was always an area control weapon that could grant permanent protection simply through autoattacking.

[Saiyan.1704]

Ah I stand corrected, thanks for the explanation :3!

[Holgarf.6581]

On 12/21/2022 at 7:33 PM, Coltz.5617 said:

  We've been having trouble using hammers practically for years now, I wonder if we can get the Guardian Hammer to a respectable polish? I think it needs to be faster, but simply lowering CD wouldn't work as most of that time is being taken during the looooong animation. The time before the skill activates takes too long, if you must have some kind of delay its better to have it after the skill is launched. Forcibly having the animation delay just feels wonky with CD timer.

 

Any other views on Guardian Hammers is welcomed.

 

Thanks for notice

Given how ArenaNet nerfs most of the playable classes into the ground if it comes before EoD, I'd say no. They've just taken Right Hand Strength away from Guardian as well lmao. They may as well taker away Aegis, the player's Arms & Legs and be done with it.

I've wanted to play Core Guardian Hammer for years, but it's been untouched. But hey, if it isn't new, it isn't encouraging growth and sales.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

19 minutes ago, Holgarf.6581 said:

Given how ArenaNet nerfs most of the playable classes into the ground if it comes before EoD, I'd say no. They've just taken Right Hand Strength away from Guardian as well lmao. They may as well taker away Aegis, the player's Arms & Legs and be done with it.

I've wanted to play Core Guardian Hammer for years, but it's been untouched. But hey, if it isn't new, it isn't encouraging growth and sales.

Did you look at the changes to the MH sword skills? They didn't take away the CD reduction from guardians, just from the trait. Now all MH sword guardians get it for free. 

[Imba.9451]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:21 PM, Veneratio.1980 said:

Is the reduced attack speed  AA on Hammer gonna make any significant difference?

I just played around with hammer a bit in Fractals. Certainly not saying much, but I easily kept 21-23k dps up, without switching weapons, basically just using Hammer 2 and 4 as well as test of faith and possession of blades off cooldown, while smacking symbols into the ground with hammer auto attack chain.

It seems at least viable enough for some variety. Also you can greatly help with protection uptime. You are quite dependant on quickness though, playing hammer in OW feels a bit clunky still.

[Tiviana.2650]

Lets see they gave ranger a hammer that does just fine , so why not Guard?

[Sonork.2916]

Still feel Hammer needs a bit more, the banish change is cool, only problem is vs almost any player... you'll never land banish.  The 1 second cast time on a short range melee attack is... insane...  There is no reason why Banish needs to have 1 second cast time when engineers get an almost identical weapon skill in Overcharged shot.  Which is basically the same attack as banish, but on rifle, and it's a 1200 ranged attack that is INSTANT cast, that also combos into almost everything in the engi's arsenal...  Yet banish has a 1 second cast time with a range of 130, and is a melee attack.   

Ideas to make banish a usable skill:

1. - It needs to be faster.
2. - Increase it's range
3. - Give it a dash animation that does the windup during the dash, finishing at the end of the dash.
4. - Add good damage to the skill

Even if they added all of the above, it would only turn the skill into something that's simply usable.  Cause as of right now, unless the enemy is downed or you blow JI, landing a banish is next to impossible.

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Sonork.2916

[Saiyan.1704]

Yeah i agree Hammer still sucks.

[Ferus.3165]

23 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

Still feel Hammer needs a bit more, the banish change is cool, only problem is vs almost any player... you'll never land banish.  The 1 second cast time on a short range melee attack is... insane...  There is no reason why Banish needs to have 1 second cast time when engineers get an almost identical weapon skill in Overcharged shot.  Which is basically the same attack as banish, but on rifle, and it's a 1200 ranged attack that is INSTANT cast, that also combos into almost everything in the engi's arsenal...  Yet banish has a 1 second cast time with a range of 130, and is a melee attack.   

Ideas to make banish a usable skill:

1. - It needs to be faster.
2. - Increase it's range
3. - Give it a dash animation that does the windup during the dash, finishing at the end of the dash.
4. - Add good damage to the skill

Even if they added all of the above, it would only turn the skill into something that's simply usable.  Cause as of right now, unless the enemy is downed or you blow JI, landing a banish is next to impossible.

 

banish is pretty similiar to backbreaker so i don't think this skill needs a buff. Overcharged shot is just a pretty good example of extreme powercreep. It was a medium range cc with a drawback and now it's a long range cc that you can just spam with all your other skills because the tradeoff for it to be a ranged cc has been completely removed... also the cd of overcharged shot is lower than banish which makes no sense at all and just like with ranger longbow knockback you practically cannot tell the difference between a normal autoattack and the knockback because the animation is almost the same. If anything overcharged shot deserves a nerf imo.

[Sonork.2916]

8 hours ago, Ferus.3165 said:

banish is pretty similiar to backbreaker so i don't think this skill needs a buff. Overcharged shot is just a pretty good example of extreme powercreep. It was a medium range cc with a drawback and now it's a long range cc that you can just spam with all your other skills because the tradeoff for it to be a ranged cc has been completely removed... also the cd of overcharged shot is lower than banish which makes no sense at all and just like with ranger longbow knockback you practically cannot tell the difference between a normal autoattack and the knockback because the animation is almost the same. If anything overcharged shot deserves a nerf imo.

I don't entirely disagree, but at the end of the day, banish is still basically unusable in any form of pvp.  Bringing Hammer up from vanilla GW2 balance, into something playable today should be done.  And banish is easily the worst ability on hammer atm even after the change to it.

[Mikhael.2391]

make it 240range and unblocable with 1/2 cast. Ring of warding needs to be able to cast while moving just to help on the running away since no movement provided from hammer to get out.

 

[GoingMenthol.7281]

On 2/19/2023 at 8:48 PM, Tiviana.2650 said:

Lets see they gave ranger a hammer that does just fine , so why not Guard?

They gave Elementalist 2 hammers and as far as I'm aware they both work pretty well. Seriously, the Conjure Hammer has quickness on it's mighty blow equivalent and superspeed on banish equivalent, it's surprisingly fun