RazieL.5684 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 https://freeimage.host/i/HzVjcss i have a feeling that something is not quite right here... the moment i arrive to the battle field i get nuked from stealth by 1 person... any chance they got a little bit overboard with the holo buffs? maybe? just a little bit?... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Lol. The buff has nothing to do with this. You got memed by an Overheat holo. Very old build. Not very good. VERY funny though. 6 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvolupo.5708 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Good times vibe! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazieL.5684 Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said: VERY funny though. which is the funny part exactly? the 0 counter play? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 How is it zero counterplay? They blew up in front of you at melee range and it didn't instakill you because your log has 4 lines of damage from the same person. 6 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazieL.5684 Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 it is 0 counter play because they were stealthed for the whole duration and if the timestamps included seconds (as they should have) you could see all of those hits together in the same second Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said: it is 0 counter play because they were stealthed for the whole duration and if the timestamps included seconds (as they should have) you could see all of those hits together in the same second The only way it would be all together is if your ping is bad. The PBM trait has delayed damage in melee range and requires full heat. Also I'm not sure if you are aware but any time you hit someone you drop stealth so it is probably you are lagging. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazieL.5684 Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Infusion.7149 said: The only way it would be all together is if your ping is bad. The PBM trait has delayed damage in melee range and requires full heat. Also I'm not sure if you are aware but any time you hit someone you drop stealth so it is probably you are lagging. there is no lag... you... you do realize those are 2 buttons right? not to mention the first one is 1/2 sec cast time... but that is not the issue... my question is why does that PASSIVE trait hit for 20k in wvw? i understand that it's a glass build but that hardly matters against an invisible target which you don't even know is there.. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said: there is no lag... you... you do realize those are 2 buttons right? not to mention the first one is 1/2 sec cast time... but that is not the issue... my question is why does that PASSIVE trait hit for 20k in wvw? i understand that it's a glass build but that hardly matters against an invisible target which you don't even know is there.. Even if Arenanet nerfs it is not even relevant in group play most of the time since most people run scrappers. It hits for 19k on you because it has a 5.0 power coefficient. It is also not a passive , heat generation to the point of overheat needs to be more or less perfectly timed to land it on you. 3 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazieL.5684 Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: Even if Arenanet nerfs it is not even relevant in group play most of the time since most people run scrappers so you don't mind getting it nerfed? great! problem solved! 4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: It is also not a passive , heat generation to the point of overheat needs to be more or less perfectly timed to land it on you. define "passive"... i define it as something you don't have to do anything to activate... like for example this trait... that requires you just to go into forge and do nothing different than usual... sit in melee range and do your normal rotation without ANY changes at all and then eventually you get this PASSIVE trait to activate for bonus 1 shot to 5 people around you idk why it has 5.0 coefficient in wvw and pvp but i don't think ANYTHING should hit 20k in pvp/wvw LET ALONE A PASSIVE... 3 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said: so you don't mind getting it nerfed? great! problem solved! define "passive"... i define it as something you don't have to do anything to activate... like for example this trait... that requires you just to go into forge and do nothing different than usual... sit in melee range and do your normal rotation without ANY changes at all and then eventually you get this PASSIVE trait to activate for bonus 1 shot to 5 people around you idk why it has 5.0 coefficient in wvw and pvp but i don't think ANYTHING should hit 20k in pvp/wvw LET ALONE A PASSIVE... Work on your positional awareness instead of asking for nerfs to anything that kills you. Your log clearly shows that you took at least three hits before dying, not sure why you keep lying about this. Moreover if it is so OP why don't you try playing it? P.S. overheating is not "nothing different than usual", as a holo actively avoids overheating Edited December 21, 2022 by Infusion.7149 6 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 23 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said: there is no lag... you... you do realize those are 2 buttons right? not to mention the first one is 1/2 sec cast time... but that is not the issue... my question is why does that PASSIVE trait hit for 20k in wvw? i understand that it's a glass build but that hardly matters against an invisible target which you don't even know is there.. It hits that hard because it has tons of downsides built in for the holosmith. can't access photon forge until all heat is depleted after overheating all toolbelt skills go on recharge for 5 seconds holosmith deals a quarter of their health as damage to themselves for overheating overheat detonation is highly telegraphed and delayed There is nothing in the game that is harming the user as much as this trait does for a holosmith. So yeah, the detonation hits hard and rightfully so. 8 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazieL.5684 Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: Work on your positional awareness instead of asking for nerfs to anything that kills you. positional awareness to an invisible target... sure! will get right on that! 5 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: Your log clearly shows that you took at least three hits before dying, not sure why you keep lying about this. not sure if troll at this point... lying about what? lying about getting hit for 20k from a passive? if anything not dying in the first hit should at least show that i am not running full glass... 7 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: Moreover if it is so OP why don't you try playing it? "moreover" why would i do that? should i play mech as well "just because it's OP" right now? nice logic there bucko... 7 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: P.S. overheating is not "nothing different than usual", as a holo actively avoids overheating do you even know the trait you are talking about? are you saying that you use that trait, then go into forge, and when you get to 99 heat you leave forge and never go back into it so you don't overheat? interesting game style... anyway for the rest of the world that know how that trait works... it is absolutely "nothing different than usual" because you don't have to do anything, even if you sit and do nothing you will eventually overheat on your own... 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 1 minute ago, RazieL.5684 said: positional awareness to an invisible target... sure! will get right on that! not sure if troll at this point... lying about what? lying about getting hit for 20k from a passive? if anything not dying in the first hit should at least show that i am not running full glass... "moreover" why would i do that? should i play mech as well "just because it's OP" right now? nice logic there bucko... do you even know the trait you are talking about? are you saying that you use that trait, then go into forge, and when you get to 99 heat you leave forge and never go back into it so you don't overheat? interesting game style... anyway for the rest of the world that know how that trait works... it is absolutely "nothing different than usual" because you don't have to do anything, even if you sit and do nothing you will eventually overheat on your own... The trait does the damage after you overheat IN MELEE range. Why would you overheat if not even near the target. You're the one who doesn't know the trait. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazieL.5684 Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 11 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said: It hits that hard because it has tons of downsides built in for the holosmith. it's ok to hit hard... i understand the concept... but 20k... is not "hard".... it's EXTREMELY HARD... most classes don't even have that much MAX health let alone whatever is left after a holo attacks you... 13 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said: holosmith deals a quarter of their health as damage to themselves for overheating that is not true, it's removed with the trait... the burning you can cleanse 13 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said: overheat detonation is highly telegraphed and delayed not from stealth it's not... 14 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said: There is nothing in the game that is harming the user as much as this trait does for a holosmith. So yeah, the detonation hits hard and rightfully so. oh, in that case can i just get a trait for ele that give my abilities 10000 range... the downside would be that i have 1 max hp and it would be "balanced"... just because it has downsides doesn't mean it should hit more than the max hp of 7/9 classes PASSIVELY... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazieL.5684 Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: The trait does the damage after you overheat IN MELEE range. Why would you overheat if not even near the target. You're the one who doesn't know the trait. i did say it was in melee range what are you talking about? and to be more precise it's 240 radius which is almost twice melee range btw... if you have no idea what you're talking about please do not reply... Edited December 22, 2022 by RazieL.5684 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said: i did say it was in melee range what are you talking about? and to be more precise it's 240 radius which is almost twice melee range btw... if you have no idea what you're talking about please do not reply... 240 range is still melee range (since you play ele, dagger mainhand air auto is 240). Photon Forge is 240 range. Even if they nerf it by half you would still die and then you would make another complaint thread. You tanked at least 4 hits. It is quite clear you started playing WVW recently because eles dying to CoR instantly back in HoT days was very common and back then it was on 2 second cooldown and 1200 ranged. PBM has nothing on that. Edited December 22, 2022 by Infusion.7149 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said: it's ok to hit hard... i understand the concept... but 20k... is not "hard".... it's EXTREMELY HARD... most classes don't even have that much MAX health let alone whatever is left after a holo attacks you... And it is a double edged sword. If the holosmith doesn't land the overheat for one of the many possible reasons (enemy gets out of range, since it is close combat, it can get blinded, it can get blocked, dodged, etc), then they pretty much lost the battle because of all the downsides I mentioned. 13 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said: that is not true, it's removed with the trait... the burning you can cleanse You are showing that you don't know the trait. The immediate damage after overheating, which is one quarter of your health, is removed from the trait. But overheating also applies a damaging over-time effect on you, which also is one quarter of your health in total and this can NOT get cleansed, since it isn't a burn, but a unique debuff which isn't a condition. 13 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said: not from stealth it's not... Engineer has no long lasting stealth. Most he has is a 3 seconds stealth from toss elixir s. If you don't notice an enemy approach who needs to be close enough to you to reach you in 3 seconds, then sorry but this is on you. 13 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said: oh, in that case can i just get a trait for ele that give my abilities 10000 range... the downside would be that i have 1 max hp and it would be "balanced"... just because it has downsides doesn't mean it should hit more than the max hp of 7/9 classes PASSIVELY... You keep repeating "passively", but just because it is a trait doesn't really make it all that passive. Yeah, you can overheat by just standing around. You won't hit anything with that, tho. As a matter of fact, PBM is a trait with alot of gameplay attached to it. You don't just overheat willy nilly. It requires timing, since you don't want to miss that attack. Because as mentioned, if you miss it you put yourself in a massive disadvantage and basically defeated yourself. It's not a trait you just trigger without thinking about it. If you do that, you will more likely kill yourself than your enemy. PBM is actually one of the least passive traits in the game. Edited December 22, 2022 by Kodama.6453 3 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazieL.5684 Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: 240 range is still melee range (since you play ele, dagger mainhand air auto is 240). Photon Forge is 240 range. Even if they nerf it by half you would still die and then you would make another complaint thread. You tanked at least 4 hits. elementalist : sword - fire auto 130 water auto 130 air auto 130 earth auto 130, hammer - air auto 130 earth auto 130 warrior : sword auto 130, hammer auto 130, axe auto 130, mace auto 130, greatsword auto 130 ranger : greatsword auto 130, sword auto 130, dagger auto 130 necro : greatsword auto 130 guardian : greatsword auto 130, sword auto 130, hammer auto 130, mace auto 130 thief : dagger auto 130, sword auto 130, staff auto 130 engineer : hammer auto 130, sword auto 130 mace auto 130 mesmer : sword auto 130, axe auto 130 revenant : mace auto 130, sword auto 130, staff auto 130, greatsword auto 130 ... please cherry pick more... 240 is NOT melee range! you don't even argue in good faith you just want to defend stuff just because... it's a shame to have over 5000 posts and don't even know the game you are spamming about... people warned me not to come to these forums... 14 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: Even if they nerf it by half you would still die and then you would make another complaint thread. You tanked at least 4 hits. it shouldn't be nerfed by half, it's a passive, it should be nerfed by 80% AT LEAST and it will still crit for 4k which is plenty... 16 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: It is quite clear you started playing WVW recently because eles dying to CoR instantly back in HoT days was very common and back then it was on 2 second cooldown and 1200 ranged. PBM has nothing on that. what does me starting to play when have to do with anything? even if i started to play half an hour ago this is not an argument... just... stop... Edited December 22, 2022 by RazieL.5684 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said: elementalist : sword - fire auto 130 water auto 130 air auto 130 earth auto 130, hammer - air auto 130 earth auto 130 warrior : sword auto 130, hammer auto 130, axe auto 130, mace auto 130, greatsword auto 130 ranger : greatsword auto 130, sword auto 130, dagger auto 130 necro : greatsword auto 130 guardian : greatsword auto 130, sword auto 130, hammer auto 130, mace auto 130 thief : dagger auto 130, sword auto 130, staff auto 130 engineer : hammer auto 130, sword auto 130 mace auto 130 mesmer : sword auto 130, axe auto 130 revenant : mace auto 130, sword auto 130, staff auto 130, greatsword auto 130 ... please cherry pick more... 240 is NOT melee range! you don't even argue in good faith you just want to defend stuff just because... it's a shame to have over 5000 posts and don't even know the game you are spamming about... people warned me not to come to these forums... I have more edits on the wiki about balance updates than you ever even have thought about... Melee range is 240 on ele hammer (whirling stones) as well. 130 is just the lower limit of melee range. P.S. like I stated multiple times above, even if you got your wish and Arenanet caves nerfing PBM in half you would still have died. Way to change the topic and ignore that. Edited December 22, 2022 by Infusion.7149 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazieL.5684 Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: I have more edits on the wiki about balance updates than you ever even have thought about... irrelevant but thanks for flexing about nothing... 3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: Melee range is 240 on ele hammer (stonestrike) as well. 130 is just the lower limit of melee range. 130 is melee range... i'm scared to read what you wrote on the wiki at this point... 4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said: P.S. like I stated multiple times above, even if you got your wish and Arenanet caves nerfing PBM in half you would still have died. Way to change the topic and ignore that. i posted my comment before i got to that now i edited it... but thanks for noticing i changed the topic about something while you RESTATED that PBM is melee range (even though it's wider than melee range in all directions)... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said: please cherry pick more... 240 is NOT melee range! Seems you are not quite familiar with the terminology in this game. 240 radius is considered melee range in the community of this game. Infusion is correct here, at least in the terms the community is using currently. 130 is the usual range for a melee auto attack and it is basically the minimum range in the game. That doesn't mean that everything that goes over 130 range is not considered melee. 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazieL.5684 Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 20 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said: And it is a double edged sword. If the holosmith doesn't land the overheat for one of the many possible reasons (enemy gets out of range, since it is close combat, it can get blinded, it can get blocked, dodged, etc), then they pretty much lost the battle because of all the downsides I mentioned. as i said i understand that it's a double edged sword but on one side of the sword you have a greatsword and on the other a plastic knife... and don't say it can be blocked and dodged "jUsT dOdGe" is not an argument... 23 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said: You are showing that you don't know the trait. The immediate damage after overheating, which is one quarter of your health, is removed from the trait. But overheating also applies a damaging over-time effect on you, which also is one quarter of your health in total and this can NOT get cleansed, since it isn't a burn, but a unique debuff which isn't a condition. i honestly thought it was a burn that can be cleansed my bad on that one, still 1/4th of your own health vs 20k for 5 targets is 100k health in total max... risk vs reward but the problem with this is that the risk just exists but the reward is outright dead enemy regardless what they do if you land it they die... it's one thing to be strong and then the enemy has the option to recover but 1 PASSIVE trait by itself outright killing 7/9 classes is simply bad design... 26 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said: Engineer has no long lasting stealth. Most he has is a 3 seconds stealth from toss elixir s. If you don't notice an enemy approach who needs to be close enough to you to reach you in 3 seconds, then sorry but this is on you. this argument has so many flaws... first of all 3 seconds is plenty with super speed of which engi has an abundance of... second do you think every fight is fought on an open field and you just look around for enemies? no walls, no corners no rocks on your maps no other enemies to look at? thirdly it's not about knowing that the engineer is there, the stealth is used to hide the animation that you are so adamant is a huge tell that makes it 100% avoidable... also this is not about duels... nobody in their right mind cares about 1v1s, the problem is that the trait is passive and the reward from it is an instant win, this is horrible design even if failing it outright kills you, which it doesn't, not even close... 32 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said: You keep repeating "passively", but just because it is a trait doesn't really make it all that passive. Yeah, you can overheat by just standing around. You won't hit anything with that, tho. As a matter of fact, PBM is a trait with alot of gameplay attached to it. You don't just overheat willy nilly. It requires timing, since you don't want to miss that attack. Because as mentioned, if you miss it you put yourself in a massive disadvantage and basically defeated yourself. It's not a trait you just trigger without thinking about it. If you do that, you will more likely kill yourself than your enemy. PBM is actually one of the least passive traits in the game. it is passive... if it just happens around you while you are doing something else without any input from you that by definition is passive... you can try and spin it however you want... just because you can min/max to get the best possible result out of ANY passive doesn't change the fact that it's passive... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazieL.5684 Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 15 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said: Seems you are not quite familiar with the terminology in this game. 240 radius is considered melee range in the community of this game. Infusion is correct here, at least in the terms the community is using currently. 130 is the usual range for a melee auto attack and it is basically the minimum range in the game. That doesn't mean that everything that goes over 130 range is not considered melee. https://freeimage.host/i/HzXK2UP your argument makes literally 0 sense... it seems you are not familiar with how words work... idk who this "community" is that you're talking about that doesn't consider "melee range" - melee range... that's like saying longbow is not 1500 range because sometimes some attacks can hit further than that (which is arguably a bug)... but every time someone says 1500 range bow you know longbow... so what "terminology" you are talking about, as a part of this community i have no idea... "melee" is the shortest range, always was, always will be... everything over that is not melee because it has longer range than melee... so you are both wrong... this is not even the main point here... i am arguing semantics in a thread i made for a passive trait that can outright by itself down 5 people regardless of the class, i stand corrected with berserker gear even warrior and necro have lower max health (19,212) than what this hit for (19,807)... again, i was warned not to come here and now i know why... proceed with your circlejerk... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, RazieL.5684 said: https://freeimage.host/i/HzXK2UP your argument makes literally 0 sense... it seems you are not familiar with how words work... idk who this "community" is that you're talking about that doesn't consider "melee range" - melee range... that's like saying longbow is not 1500 range because sometimes some attacks can hit further than that (which is arguably a bug)... but every time someone says 1500 range bow you know longbow... so what "terminology" you are talking about, as a part of this community i have no idea... "melee" is the shortest range, always was, always will be... everything over that is not melee because it has longer range than melee... so you are both wrong... this is not even the main point here... i am arguing semantics in a thread i made for a passive trait that can outright by itself down 5 people regardless of the class, i stand corrected with berserker gear even warrior and necro have lower max health (19,212) than what this hit for (19,807)... again, i was warned not to come here and now i know why... proceed with your circlejerk... is bomb kit ranged then? 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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