Revenant or Elementalist

[YVictory.6840]

Hi all,

I recently got bored with my Mesmer, and would like to try something new. Rev and Ele have both received recent welcomed busts and I found myself wanting to try both, with Vindicator/Renegade and Tempest/Weaver being the specs I'd like to try. I like strong, flashy, and mobile classes with good DPS. Which of the two would you recommend for all game mods? 

[Thormagor.5418]

I haven't play rev (except Herald) but Weaver correspond to your wish. Give I'm a sword and he will jump all around and deal damage with one of the best animation in the game (bonus, it can do power or condi or both with greiving or celestial)

Tempest is less mobile and more focus on overload, wich are 4 second canalisation spell.

If you like elem you should also try catalyst. It may fit your description.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Thormagor.5418

[The Boz.2038]

Those two are fairly different. The only thing they have in common is their constant attunement/legend switching, really. 

Both can do some nice DPS, and there are new support builds for each. Revenant is "mobile" if Shiro with an off-hand sword, kinda. Elementalist can be mobile, too, it's just... not as "strong" at it/sacrifices more for "more focused" mobility.

Ele is hands down flashier, tho.

[draxynnic.3719]

I think they both fit your criteria. In rev's case, herald is probably the flashiest, and most builds are going to have a fair amount of mobility. Elementalist mobility depends a bit more on which build you're running - hammer and the ranged weapons are relatively lacking in mobility - but are one of the flashiest professions around.

Both are currently fairly versatile and have places in all game modes. Revenant builds do tend to have lower skill floors than elementalist builds, though, which may or may not be a significant consideration. Another consideration is that if you do want to venture into support builds, alactempest is a big more highly regarded than alacrigade at the moment.

[Dadnir.5038]

Why would you choose? Do both! And you just have to keep the one that you end up liking the most.

[Infusion.7149]

Revenant is a strong WvW spec ever since launch of HoT and was meta for a while in PVE before mechanist took over alacrity. Now there is alacrity renegade and power quickness herald. In PVP it is current meta with vindicator using salvation traitline for added sustain.

Elementalist is a decent WvW spec in the form of tempest but in PVE it hasn't been really popular since Heart of Thorns when people ran staff tempest. Power quickness catalyst has serious issues , even benchmarkers say so. Catalyst with hammer remains more or less melee (600 max range) ; weaver with a sword is more or less fully melee whereas the newer condi scepter variant is essentially 900 ranged. Hammer catalyst is meta in PVP right now but any nerfs would make it fall out of favor as it is relying on hammer orbs' 0.25 coefficient and stability output on auras. Alacrity tempest has major quality of life issues relating to how alacrity is output and if you run condi rather than fresh air it is less forgiving as far as being interrupted (intentional or not).

If you're intended to use the classes for instanced PvE, revenant's herald "easy mode" put out 27K with essentially one button on Jalis/Shiro and the easiest condi scepter tempest camping fire or core ele is ~28K. That is essentially the comparison of difficulty at the low end even if at the top end the benchmark for Catalyst is 42K using 4 attunements, power weaver / condi scepter weaver is 40K or so using 2 attunements (fire+air for power, fire+earth for condi), condi tempest is ~33K, and power tempest is 33-38K depending on hitbox.

If I were in your situation I would play revenant as the core of the class is more thought out even though revenant is not a core profession.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Buran.3796]

   Go Ele for WvW and PvP; currently Rev has only a single high tier spec for PvP so is at a little nerf away to fall in complete oblivion, as happened with Willbender.

   For PvE both have strong builds, but to be honest condi Mirage with double staff kills things faster than either my condi Herald or condi Renegade without even using the heal skill, and I don't even known what Mesmer's skills do (I just evade, stack 60+ conmditions on foes and they die... ).

[otto.5684]

14 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Go Ele for WvW and PvP; currently Rev has only a single high tier spec for PvP so is at a little nerf away to fall in complete oblivion, as happened with Willbender.

   For PvE both have strong builds, but to be honest condi Mirage with double staff kills things faster than either my condi Herald or condi Renegade without even using the heal skill, and I don't even known what Mesmer's skills do (I just evade, stack 60+ conmditions on foes and they die... ).

What?! Condi Renegade does higher damage than staff mirage. And staff mirage has a slow ramp-up. Mirage normally uses axe in most PvE content. Fyi, condi renegade currently parses ahead of mirage, but not by much.

Edited December 24, 2022 by otto.5684

[Buran.3796]

56 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

What?! Condi Renegade does higher damage than staff mirage. And staff mirage has a slow ramp-up. Mirage normally uses axe in most PvE content. Fyi, condi renegade currently parses ahead of mirage, but not by much.

   I oftenly do solo Hero Mastery point runs in the Heart of Thorns maps, and usually use builds as condi Herald, condi or hybrid Renegade, power Vindicator, condi Willbender, hybrid Firebrand, power rifle Mechanist and condi double staff Mirage. I run solo builds, I don't run meta builds for instanced content since I don't need instanced content and those builds designed to deliver in a team with permanent 25 stacks of might, permanant quickness, alacrity and protection + heals, stability and other shared support features  tend to work very bad when you try to solo conent with them. In my experience:

* Condi Herald and condi Renegade do similar damage; the Renegade is a bit faster and has the advantage of range but that's a handicap vs some foes which reflect projectiles as the Chack champion at the Southwest Entangled Deepts Hero Point. Herald is more tanky; usually ramp up to ~35 torment stack with him.

* Condi Mirage ramps up beyond 60 condition stacks (NOT including vulnerability) and I usually solo the HPs without using the heal skill. Only disadvantage is that visually what the mesmer does most of the time is hanging the staff in the right hand while projecting beams from his extended left arm. But it beats pre-nerf rifle Mech in killing speed, plus any of my Rev and Guardian builds, and I don't even known what most of the Mesmer stuff does... I've seen also condi Virtuosos stacking over 80 damaging conditions, but Virtuoso is not as good as solo OW spec due lack of clones & AoE damage.

   So: condi Mirage allows to kill foes remaining untouched despite I'm unaware of what most of Mirage's skills and traits do. The FX looks nice albeit the animations are a bit boring. But boring + being able to solo legendary bounties and fractal/strike bosses is better than running a flashy spec which dies oftenly if yiou try to solo hard content. I've seen some players doing impressive stuff with Eles, as Leonidex, but I suspect that the keystrokes x minute in Eles is way higher...   I main Rev and generaly dislike mid & light armor classes but imo Mirage is darn high effective at the moment and if He mains Mesmer don't see a point to advice him to run a class which is more demanding and less rewarding.

[otto.5684]

9 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   I oftenly do solo Hero Mastery point runs in the Heart of Thorns maps, and usually use builds as condi Herald, condi or hybrid Renegade, power Vindicator, condi Willbender, hybrid Firebrand, power rifle Mechanist and condi double staff Mirage. I run solo builds, I don't run meta builds for instanced content since I don't need instanced content and those builds designed to deliver in a team with permanent 25 stacks of might, permanant quickness, alacrity and protection + heals, stability and other shared support features  tend to work very bad when you try to solo conent with them. In my experience:

* Condi Herald and condi Renegade do similar damage; the Renegade is a bit faster and has the advantage of range but that's a handicap vs some foes which reflect projectiles as the Chack champion at the Southwest Entangled Deepts Hero Point. Herald is more tanky; usually ramp up to ~35 torment stack with him.

* Condi Mirage ramps up beyond 60 condition stacks (NOT including vulnerability) and I usually solo the HPs without using the heal skill. Only disadvantage is that visually what the mesmer does most of the time is hanging the staff in the right hand while projecting beams from his extended left arm. But it beats pre-nerf rifle Mech in killing speed, plus any of my Rev and Guardian builds, and I don't even known what most of the Mesmer stuff does... I've seen also condi Virtuosos stacking over 80 damaging conditions, but Virtuoso is not as good as solo OW spec due lack of clones & AoE damage.

   So: condi Mirage allows to kill foes remaining untouched despite I'm unaware of what most of Mirage's skills and traits do. The FX looks nice albeit the animations are a bit boring. But boring + being able to solo legendary bounties and fractal/strike bosses is better than running a flashy spec which dies oftenly if yiou try to solo hard content. I've seen some players doing impressive stuff with Eles, as Leonidex, but I suspect that the keystrokes x minute in Eles is way higher...   I main Rev and generaly dislike mid & light armor classes but imo Mirage is darn high effective at the moment and if He mains Mesmer don't see a point to advice him to run a class which is more demanding and less rewarding.

I was responding to a very specific point, that staff mirage does faster (or more) damage than condi renegade. And you do not have to explain mirage. It is one my most played builds. Mirage is probably the strongest build in the game, when it comes to pve survivability.
 

And you know what, I will endorse it, cuz both staff and axe are fun and very effective. However, condi renegade is similarly good, with less sustain. If you are going for damage both are pretty good. Plus, mesmer is an acquired taste. Some people like mesmer. I sure do. But people who do not, feel strongly against it.

 

However, I would still strongly recommend rev in pve, cuz herald and vindicator are fairly strong. Definitely better than the mesmer power alternatives. And for pvp, eh, I would recommend against pvp in general in GW2. It is a lost cause. If you do, neither mesmer or rev are doing good right now.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

23 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   I oftenly do solo Hero Mastery point runs in the Heart of Thorns maps, and usually use builds as condi Herald, condi or hybrid Renegade, power Vindicator, condi Willbender, hybrid Firebrand, power rifle Mechanist and condi double staff Mirage. I run solo builds, I don't run meta builds for instanced content since I don't need instanced content and those builds designed to deliver in a team with permanent 25 stacks of might, permanant quickness, alacrity and protection + heals, stability and other shared support features  tend to work very bad when you try to solo conent with them. In my experience:

It's worth noting that once you unlock jade tech protocols you can have access to all the boons in open world, which makes those group play builds a lot better than they used to be for solo play.  You don't need the extra sustain when even champions die before they can hurt you! 

A sword weaver build like the one in the link above works great with stats like cele and trailblazer, too.  Even without jade tech those builds are capable of 20k DPS, which is plenty to melt down anything in open world/story content while also having excellent sustain.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I like how Revenant plays more personally, and the extra flavor with the legends dialogue is fun. 

[draxynnic.3719]

22 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It's worth noting that once you unlock jade tech protocols you can have access to all the boons in open world, which makes those group play builds a lot better than they used to be for solo play.  You don't need the extra sustain when even champions die before they can hurt you! 

A sword weaver build like the one in the link above works great with stats like cele and trailblazer, too.  Even without jade tech those builds are capable of 20k DPS, which is plenty to melt down anything in open world/story content while also having excellent sustain.

Technically true, but it can be awkward having to return to an EoD map and stock up on protocols every couple of hours.

[AliamRationem.5172]

27 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Technically true, but it can be awkward having to return to an EoD map and stock up on protocols every couple of hours.

True.  And I think without the benefit of those boons you're probably going to be able to take down champions at similar speeds while being much safer using a tanky version of the build with cele or trailblazer.  For reference, my times on that same Balthazar challenge without masteries are 40 seconds for cele, 39 seconds for viper, and 35 seconds for trailblazer - although they should all be a few seconds lower as I haven't tested post-patch.  It's only with the jade tech boons that I'm able to go pure offense on viper and post significantly faster times.

In any event, it's all viable and the masteries are there if you want them.  I admit it's pretty fun to just go HAM with the boons and melt down everything in sight on a viper build like that!  But I love the cele build, too, because I get to use fire/arcane with evasive arcana.  Plenty of options for sword weaver!