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Races Need Enforced Mounts


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Kind of not fun to do a race where the icon is a Raptor, and get 6th place because 5 people had the Rollerbeetle to switch too on straight runs while I did not.

Either that, or make the Mount Rental offer EVERY MOUNT for the duration of the race.

(I also assume the Rollerbeetle is why the time above mine is roughly 30 seconds faster than I can get on my best run)

Edited by Akisohida.8963
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People with high times switch between griffon and beetle. I don’t think rentals let you switch on the fly back and forth even if you could have the beetle? Plus you don’t get the mastery boosts on rentals I believe? They are quite crucial to the raptor, beetle and griffin and also the season 4 endurance bar mastery.

Also, it’s race in name only. Most people don’t really race it since there’s no point.

Slow and steady wins exactly the same.

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This comes up during several festivals and ultimately, it doesn’t matter. The race events do not reward by position only by completion of the race. The timed race does have a leaderboard but again, no rewards for being at the top.
 

Im trying to figure out why you’d swap to a Griffon tho, I just do the whole race on the Beetle using the Jade Bot Mount Recharge. 

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3 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

This comes up during several festivals and ultimately, it doesn’t matter. The race events do not reward by position only by completion of the race. The timed race does have a leaderboard but again, no rewards for being at the top.
 

Im trying to figure out why you’d swap to a Griffon tho, I just do the whole race on the Beetle using the Jade Bot Mount Recharge. 

I think the complaint is more that several festivals have made it impossible to achieve gold without the beetle. You can kind of do it on the raptor and jackal if you're very good, but you still need the LWS4 endurance regeneration mastery skill, otherwise you fall way back into silver and don't even get close to gold.

 

I think this is unfair and gold should be attainable by any player if they master the course.

 

At Halloween its even worse than Wintersday, as you literally can't get some of the achievements without having both PoF and LWS4. You can still buy the items from the vendor, though you couldn't the first year they were introduced which the player base had to complain endlessly about.

 

Players who don't buy PoF and LWS4 (which includes EoD-only players who otherwise have the full game unlocked) can't complete all the achievs for the mount races.

 

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Keep in mind something, having LWS4 and EoD Jade Bot masteries results in a mount that is far higher performance than a base mount. A player on a beetle rental can probably barely keep up with a fully mastered raptor with all the endurance regeneration buffs, let alone another beetle.

Edited by Mariyuuna.6508
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7 hours ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

Kind of not fun to do a race where the icon is a Raptor, and get 6th place because 5 people had the Rollerbeetle to switch too on straight runs while I did not.

Either that, or make the Mount Rental offer EVERY MOUNT for the duration of the race.

(I also assume the Rollerbeetle is why the time above mine is roughly 30 seconds faster than I can get on my best run)

With the events that involve others, I'm okay with that. Then it'd test skill on the given mount. With the personal race events, no. Even though i can't pilot a griffon in skimmer race for Festival of the Four winds or Roller beetle race for Mad King, I respect the people who can and admire their insane abilities. 

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This title made me mentally prepare for a very different topic. I was picturing all the playable races with different skills and traits while mounted. Luckily it was not!

Since there is no benefit from winning races, it is not needed. It works fine the way it does.

Edited by Freya.9075
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I was about to say: People really care about who wins a race? I think, there are a couple of achievement out there for "Win or reach as 2nd/3rd a race in xxx". But almost no one is doing races on maps like Amnoon. And like Freya said: There is no better reward for winning the festival races. So …

Edited by Maria Murtor.7253
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27 minutes ago, Maria Murtor.7253 said:

I was about to say: People really care about who wins a race? I think, there are a couple of achievement out there for "Win or reach as 2nd/3rd a race in xxx". But almost no one is doing races on maps like Amnoon. And like Freya said: There is no better reward for winning the festival races. So …

Depends on your vanity level. It does announce who completes 1-3rd I believe. If I'm remembering the few times I"ve done them correctly. 

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4 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

I think the complaint is more that several festivals have made it impossible to achieve gold without the beetle. You can kind of do it on the raptor and jackal if you're very good, but you still need the LWS4 endurance regeneration mastery skill, otherwise you fall way back into silver and don't even get close to gold.

 

I think this is unfair and gold should be attainable by any player if they master the course.

 

At Halloween its even worse than Wintersday, as you literally can't get some of the achievements without having both PoF and LWS4. You can still buy the items from the vendor, though you couldn't the first year they were introduced which the player base had to complain endlessly about.

 

Players who don't buy PoF and LWS4 (which includes EoD-only players who otherwise have the full game unlocked) can't complete all the achievs for the mount races.

 

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@Thread:

Keep in mind something, having LWS4 and EoD Jade Bot masteries results in a mount that is far higher performance than a base mount. A player on a beetle rental can probably barely keep up with a fully mastered raptor with all the endurance regeneration buffs, let alone another beetle.

You do realize that most festival races were introduced before rollerbettle and before bond of vigor?

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6 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

At Halloween its even worse than Wintersday, as you literally can't get some of the achievements without having both PoF and LWS4. You can still buy the items from the vendor, though you couldn't the first year they were introduced which the player base had to complain endlessly about.

 

Players who don't buy PoF and LWS4 (which includes EoD-only players who otherwise have the full game unlocked) can't complete all the achievs for the mount races.

 

Which achievments do you mean, because as far as I remember all halloween achievments can be done with rental mounts too? Even the beetle race was possible befor the extension of the timer in the year the race was released.

 

There are some races that don't work with rental mounts like the griffon-trial of the four winds festival, but I don't remeber a problem with halloween.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Maria Murtor.7253 said:

I was about to say: People really care about who wins a race? I think, there are a couple of achievement out there for "Win or reach as 2nd/3rd a race in xxx". But almost no one is doing races on maps like Amnoon. And like Freya said: There is no better reward for winning the festival races. So …

Exactly!! In the Crown Pavilion event race that took place at the end of every Boss Blitz, you were awarded 40 Festival Tokens for completing in the race. If you actually won the race, you got a whopping additional 3 Festival Tokens.

To be completely honest, when I was racing in the Crown Pavilion event race, I was using the rollerbeetle, skyscale, and raptor because it allowed me to complete the race 6-7 times per event, maximizing the number of Festival Tokens I could acquire, which I wanted to use for guildhall decorations.

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5 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

The racing times were lowered in recent years, they used to be alot more forgiving.

I can't find anything that supports this comment.  Which races had the race times changed?  Which patch notes show this?

10 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

I think the complaint is more that several festivals have made it impossible to achieve gold without the beetle. You can kind of do it on the raptor and jackal if you're very good, but you still need the LWS4 endurance regeneration mastery skill, otherwise you fall way back into silver and don't even get close to gold.

 

I think this is unfair and gold should be attainable by any player if they master the course.

 

At Halloween its even worse than Wintersday, as you literally can't get some of the achievements without having both PoF and LWS4. You can still buy the items from the vendor, though you couldn't the first year they were introduced which the player base had to complain endlessly about.

 

Players who don't buy PoF and LWS4 (which includes EoD-only players who otherwise have the full game unlocked) can't complete all the achievs for the mount races.

 

---

@Thread:

Keep in mind something, having LWS4 and EoD Jade Bot masteries results in a mount that is far higher performance than a base mount. A player on a beetle rental can probably barely keep up with a fully mastered raptor with all the endurance regeneration buffs, let alone another beetle.

This is conflating the issue by combining several factors.  You could also argue that you can't do these races now without the Jade Bot Mount Booster, but you don't specifically need it, it just makes it a little easier. 

I just ran the Wintersday race on an alternate account that has Raptor Mastery 3 (the long jump) but nothing else.  No Jade Bot Mount Boost (no EoD), no Energy Recovery, no LWS4 upgrades, not even sharing abilities from Springer or Skimmer, the only other mounts unlocked on this acct.  Without all those tools I still managed a 2:28 which gives you Gold for the race. 

So I could agree that without Raptor Long Jump you wouldn't be able to complete the course in Gold time, but you definitely do not need all the other boosts.  What these boosts do is make the the average racer less skillful in using their mounts to the fullest capabilities and in turn make those boosts seem mandatory. 

A handful of players will always push themselves, the mounts capabilities and race course to the limits.  Many people will struggle to finish the race because they are racing the clock, the leaderboard or friends and guildies, not themselves.  You will become fastest when you race for yourself.

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19 hours ago, Akisohida.8963 said:

Kind of not fun to do a race where the icon is a Raptor, and get 6th place because 5 people had the Rollerbeetle to switch too on straight runs while I did not.

Either that, or make the Mount Rental offer EVERY MOUNT for the duration of the race.

 

Locking people into a certain type of mount for a race is no better than locking people out. People prefer different mounts because it suits how they can best control their character. Different courses favour different mounts too, so it's good to have a choice. 

But they absolutely should offer a full choice of all mounts for race rental. It probably still won't help the rentals win though because they likely won't have the mastery points or ability to switch mounts mid-race.

But winning doesn't matter anyway, there's no extra rewards, it's all just for fun. I'm not so great at tight corners on the Roller Beetle, so I just slam into the wall, or manually dismount and get back on again. Sometimes this still wins, so I can only apologise to more skilful racers 🙂

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Full disclosure: I have all mount masteries (including the "bond" abilities) and even went so far as to grind for Mount Energy Booster 3, yet I would still like mount races to be fair to everyone that is able to participate in them. 

I think OP is on the right track; mount types should either be enforced or every mount type should be available to rent to keep races fair. Perhaps somewhere later down the line, we could have races actually designed with mount swapping in mind (almost like a relay race).

Yes, winning a race doesn't really matter in terms of rewards, but the fact of the matter is that the game does give you additional rewards -- albeit not big ones -- for placing in the top three. Plus, it's just a good feeling to win something -- a feeling that should be attainable to everybody who has met the prerequisites to compete in the races. Kind of similar to how winning and losing doesn't matter all that much in unranked PvP matches either, yet anybody who is able to participate can win matches if they have the skill.

Edited by Teletric.3821
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40 minutes ago, Teletric.3821 said:

Yes, winning a race doesn't really matter in terms of rewards, but the fact of the matter is that the game does give you additional rewards -- albeit not big ones -- for placing in the top three.

Other than having your name announced in the zone the race is hosted in, what rewards are there for top three race finishers?

44 minutes ago, Teletric.3821 said:

Plus, it's just a good feeling to win something -- a feeling that should be attainable to everybody who has met the prerequisites to compete in the races. Kind of similar to how winning and losing doesn't matter all that much in unranked PvP matches either, yet anybody who is able to participate can win matches if they have the skill.

Some players will never win a fair race, it's just the way it is.  However, the system is setup so all players can finish these races.  And the fun, excitement and rewards are balanced so completing the races is where the focus is, not on winning them.

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59 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Other than having your name announced in the zone the race is hosted in, what rewards are there for top three race finishers?

Depends on the race event. In the Pavilion Pursuit, you get 3, 2, or 1 additional Festival Coin(s) depending on whether you placed 1st, 2nd, or 3rd respectively. Some race events (like the standard PoF ones) give you an achievement for placing in the top 3. Again, they aren't huge rewards but still some rewards nonetheless.

Quote

Some players will never win a fair race, it's just the way it is.  However, the system is setup so all players can finish these races.  And the fun, excitement and rewards are balanced so completing the races is where the focus is, not on winning them.

I guess it may be different for you, but for me the fun and excitement in a race comes from trying to get first place; that's what makes it a race in the first place. Otherwise it'd just be a time trial... I mean, if what you are saying were the case, wouldn't everybody just do the time trial version instead? Hell, they aren't even on a timer like the races are -- you can do them any time.

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11 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

The racing times were lowered in recent years, they used to be alot more forgiving.

Any source of that?

Because I don't remember that, I can't find anything about it on the wiki, and by track record, every time Arenanet would have modified timer or anything related to difficulty, it's to made it easier. 

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Also, more about the topic, while I do agree fairness is better in general, in this case, fairness mean that everyone is locked on a raptor with no mastery or any tool at all. 

You'll probably be the first to stop racing along with more other because it will be boring, absurdly boring, I'll probably stop racing all together. 

All the fun of the race sacrified for what? No difference in reward, or so little most people probably didn't even notice there was a difference. 

While fairness may be good, there are bad trade, and this is a really bad one. 

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