Need help dodging dragons tooth

[Jski.6180]

23 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

All scepter skills except water 3 and auto attacks can be cast on targets behind or to the side.

They can not it was updated a few weeks ago.

[Zyreva.1078]

10 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

They can not it was updated a few weeks ago.

Incorrect. They only changed fire 1 to not ignore LOS.

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Incorrect. They only changed fire 1 to not ignore LOS.

They changed dragon tooth to also not ignore LOS the skill in question.

[Zyreva.1078]

6 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

They changed dragon tooth to also not ignore LOS the skill in question.

Still can be cast without facing the target.

[Jski.6180]

1 minute ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Still can be cast without facing the target.

It cant unless you mean a use of the skill with out an target where it simply cast it at your feet. I think that not the poster issues. Scpter is week to being rushed (or being out side of 900) kind of the weakness of single target ranged over all.

[Zyreva.1078]

9 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

It cant unless you mean a use of the skill with out an target where it simply cast it at your feet. I think that not the poster issues. Scpter is week to being rushed (or being out side of 900) kind of the weakness of single target ranged over all.

Log into the game, enter the pvp lobby with an ele, equip scepter, run away from a golem and press fire 2 with said golem targeted. Tell me what happens.

(Before you ask, yes i actually did check ingame myself).

Edited December 31, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Jski.6180]

5 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Log into the game, enter the pvp lobby with an ele, equip scepter, run away from a golem and press fire 2. Tell me what happens.

(Before you ask, yes i actually did check ingame myself).

So it dose odd i guess i was the LOS only updated. I still stand by my point of rushing the scpter ele as a means of dealing with them.

[solemn.9670]

2 hours ago, Ragnarox.9601 said:

I lost you with this, with everything happening in fights I need to count to 3, are you serious? really are you serious right now?

You know its op and it will be nerfed. 

I'm sorry that having to multitask is too much for you. Go figure, a non-ele main is confused by having to do multiple things at once.

  

2 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Uh, both skills track once cast, but in order to be able to cast the skill on a target, revs needs to get much closer and the rev will also inevitably end up in melee range after the fact, whether the revs wants to be there or not.

Utter nonsense. Each hit of UA is single target. Just because individual hits can hit different targets doesn't make the skill aoe, let alone a good one. It's like saying untraited RF (or any single target multihit channel) is aoe, because it will hit different players if someone else gets in the way. Real aoe skills will hit each target for full dmg and therefore become more effective with more targets present, instead of less effective.

Didn't know casting DT causes you to lose control over your char ...

So far i did not make any statements whether i think the discussed skills are (too) strong or weak. I was just providing numerical facts.

But i'll say this: Claiming UA is op nowadays is questionable in itself, but it becomes even more of a joke when it comes from someone who mains the class that has the best counter to said skill. And no, i don't play rev.

So rev needs to be 300 range closer? Wow, great point. Debate ended. W

Yeah no. Lol you want to call this utter nonsense while you spout vitriolic chest-thumping "each hit is single target even though it's multiple hits and DT is just one" nonsense. You know nothing you're saying makes any sense, right?

Casting DT doesn't cause you to lose control over your character, does casting rev sword 3 cause you to? Cause last I checked, I didn't lose control of my character when casting it, I just became invulnerable to damage and outputted a ton of damage. Seems like a good deal to me. But of course, to CNN newscasters like yourself, probably not a great optic, yeah?

Numerical facts. Nice. Hiding behind numbers now.

"Mains the class that has the best counter to said skill" ... are you alluding to dragons tooth? Because I don't even play scepter. Nerf it to the ground for all I care, I'm a d/d main. :)))))

Edited December 31, 2022 by solemn.9670

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, solemn.9670 said:

I'm sorry that having to multitask is too much for you. Go figure, a non-ele main is confused by having to do multiple things at once.

Every skill that has a track is like this but they dont have a tell most of the time. You could even say skills that have fast traveler time are also like this as well. A player can just simple see and know the skill of dragon tooth is coming its a lot harder to see or tell if an say necro axe skills are being used beyond seeing them hit you.

If the ele dose "real dmg" with the scpter skills then they are very all in glass as well as being able to brake target messes with there casting so going in such as flanking IS an viable way to deal with the build.

[Zyreva.1078]

-->

7 minutes ago, solemn.9670 said:

You know nothing you're saying makes any sense, right?

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[solemn.9670]

Just now, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

-->

 

 

Great reply.

W.

You win, I am defeated.

XXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[solemn.9670]

Just take the L

[Jski.6180]

2 minutes ago, solemn.9670 said:

Just take the L

Not realty a thing that should be won or lost ppl can say the wrong thing and move on with the chat.

4 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

-->

 

If a skill tracks at all if is just like dragon tooth see hunter ward. The point of a skill like dragon tooth is to be hard hitting the very point of scepter for ele so much so the support was removed from the wepon the only main hand core ele wepon that has no support.

[Axelteas.7192]

On 12/30/2022 at 12:39 AM, Stallic.2397 said:

If you can't dodge it, you block it. Every class has a block nowadays on low CD

 

Complaining about forcing a dodge is quite silly. With all the runes, sigils, and traits that grant vigor and energy regeneration, you would think dodging would be second nature. 

 

People dodge just to move faster, yet dodging a f'n meteor seems too impossible for players. /sigh 

 

I've been playing as a thief against scepter eles. When the red circe is on me I dodge or teleport myself out of the circle, and automatically the circle follows me where I am. This is crazy and absolutely broken.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Axelteas.7192

[Bladestrom.6425]

15 minutes ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

I've been playing as a thief against scepter eles. When the red circe is on me I dodge or teleport myself out of the circle, and automatically the circle follows me where I am. This is crazy and absolutely broken.

 

as the poster said above 'Every skill that has a track is like this but they don't have a tell most of the time'  its simply a hard hitting spell with a tell.  everything else sceptre has is weak, so why worry?

[solemn.9670]

Ya for real

Any ranged attack that guides itself to the target, i.e. most ranged autoattacks, is also "targeted". The only difference is there is no delay.

Like yeah, obviously fire/earth signet scepter tempest is overpowered. That's a build that existed before scepter tho. Who is dying to dragons tooth? Dodge

[Razor.6392]

On one hand I think it's oppressive that it forces a dodge otherwise you eat 5-6k dmg crit + burning.

On the other I remember that literally every other class has skills that force 1 or 2 dodges everytime because if you don't it's 6k+ damage as well.

Perhaps the deciding factor here is the range?

[Serephen.3420]

6 hours ago, Razor.6392 said:

On one hand I think it's oppressive that it forces a dodge otherwise you eat 5-6k dmg crit + burning.

On the other I remember that literally every other class has skills that force 1 or 2 dodges everytime because if you don't it's 6k+ damage as well.

Perhaps the deciding factor here is the range?

Ranger longbow 2 forces a dodge and has much longer range with no delay.

[Dr Meta.3158]

1 hour ago, Serephen.3420 said:

Ranger longbow 2 forces a dodge and has much longer range with no delay.

Can you imagine longbow 2 ignoring projectile blocks and allowing you to spam blinds while you're shooting? That would be crazy oppressive.

Now imagine that plus rangers shooting you from their back while running away with superspeed.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Dr Meta.3158

[Serephen.3420]

8 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Can you imagine longbow 2 ignoring projectile blocks and allowing you to spam blinds while you're shooting? That would be crazy oppressive.

Would you imagine longbow 2 giving you a red circle and a few seconds to react before it started to do damage? You can dodge or block dragon's tooth. It's not the most deadly skill in the game. You're unlikely to get instantly downed by it unless you're already low or are incredibly glassy and unprepared. 

I see more rangers roaming than eles. Projectile blocks don't last forever unless you're a ventari rev and you're not going to be hurting anyone running that. 

Longbow is more bursty which is why it has that additional counter. Yet I'm not calling for it or other skills like it to be needlesly nerfed.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Serephen.3420

[Dr Meta.3158]

3 hours ago, Serephen.3420 said:

Would you imagine longbow 2 giving you a red circle and a few seconds to react before it started to do damage? You can dodge or block dragon's tooth. It's not the most deadly skill in the game. You're unlikely to get instantly downed by it unless you're already low or are incredibly glassy and unprepared. 

I see more rangers roaming than eles. Projectile blocks don't last forever unless you're a ventari rev and you're not going to be hurting anyone running that. 

Longbow is more bursty which is why it has that additional counter. Yet I'm not calling for it or other skills like it to be needlesly nerfed.

Thats because you and many others are densely missing the point. The fresh air scepter barrage pre scepter changes was already ridiculous to manage defensively but at the very least manageable to overcome with the right plays and was only played by weaver. Now the shortsighted dragon's tooth change on top of it alone makes it far too overbearing. But then, now there's the extra pressure from the catalyst aoes makes it impossible to manage it all. Stop looking at dragon's tooth in isolation and look at the whole picture (or play the game at a level higher than gold) and then you'll understand what people are complaining about.

[Serephen.3420]

9 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Thats because you and many others are densely missing the point. The fresh air scepter barrage pre scepter changes was already ridiculous to manage defensively but at the very least manageable to overcome with the right plays and was only played by weaver. Now the shortsighted dragon's tooth change on top of it alone makes it far too overbearing. But then, now there's the extra pressure from the catalyst aoes makes it impossible to manage it all. Stop looking at dragon's tooth in isolation and look at the whole picture (or play the game at a level higher than gold) and then you'll understand what people are complaining about.

What catalyst aoes? Those do no damage in competitive...if fresh is a problem look at that. I play wvw and high end pve. Spvp lost its appeal a while ago since it's always the same few people who still play it, afk teams tournaments aside.

 

I think for pvp it's not an ele exclusive issue but one that came with the general attempt to remove bunkers and keep high spike glass. If you want to make spvp specific changes most people could probably care less I suppose so long as those remain there and don't affect other modes.

[Dr Meta.3158]

15 minutes ago, Serephen.3420 said:

What catalyst aoes? Those do no damage in competitive...if fresh is a problem look at that. I play wvw and high end pve. Spvp lost its appeal a while ago since it's always the same few people who still play it, afk teams tournaments aside.

 

I think for pvp it's not an ele exclusive issue but one that came with the general attempt to remove bunkers and keep high spike glass. If you want to make spvp specific changes most people could probably care less I suppose so long as those remain there and don't affect other modes.

I imagine you wouldn't need help dodging dragon's tooth in pve, high end or not, and I would imagine you'd have more trouble dodging a coordinated strike from 50+ people than dodging a singular elementalist barrage in wvw. I know there's roaming but the one thing roamers will never seem to accept is that roaming (primarily qvq dueling out in the middle of no where without the restrictions that spvp carries) isn't the point of wvw and as such isn't the focus for patches.

[Serephen.3420]

24 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

I imagine you wouldn't need help dodging dragon's tooth in pve, high end or not, and I would imagine you'd have more trouble dodging a coordinated strike from 50+ people than dodging a singular elementalist barrage in wvw. I know there's roaming but the one thing roamers will never seem to accept is that roaming (primarily qvq dueling out in the middle of no where without the restrictions that spvp carries) isn't the point of wvw and as such isn't the focus for patches.

I was just stating my primary modes of play asof recently. As far as roaming goes, it plays a role, even if minor, and most roaming or small havoc groups don't involve any dueling. I played spvp a lot more in core, hot, but of pof and a bit in eod. That mode has far greater issues than just dodging a dragon tooth, and until those are resolved not much will improve. 

[Dr Meta.3158]

36 minutes ago, Serephen.3420 said:

I was just stating my primary modes of play asof recently. As far as roaming goes, it plays a role, even if minor, and most roaming or small havoc groups don't involve any dueling. I played spvp a lot more in core, hot, but of pof and a bit in eod. That mode has far greater issues than just dodging a dragon tooth, and until those are resolved not much will improve. 

I understand all of that, but I'm sticking to the relevant topic at hand. Otherwise the structure of this thread will get out of control and we'll end up discussing the missed potential of Joko in the story.