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I'm in need of some GW1 people to explain Palawa Joko to me.


Ayumi Spender.1082

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I've been through the timelines that was posted on the GW2 wiki, the GW2 wiki provides a bit from GW1 and stuff that happened after GW1/before GW2, and of course his situation in PoF.The Guild Wars wiki talk about Elona suffered under him... that's where I'm needing some info on.

I've never played Guild Wars so I never had an interaction with him and even now the few Sunspears I see in GW2 "does" to me feel like a dying/dead army that were the once great ones that opposed Joko.The things though that I see in Elona as Joko had control of the place seems like it's flourishing. The people don't look mistreated, they seem happy, the awakened are treated well from what it looks like. Even the little grunts known as Awakened Mummies the higher officers don't just want to head out and get them killed kind of seem like they don't just see them as "Well, we can make more so let them die anyway."

While yes it's bad to baby people to the point they don't even know how to damn well take care of themselves (like that one renowned heart that I'm seeing clothes beyond repairs, not knowing how to do any work around the place and not even understanding how to cook while Joko isn't around.... and going by open world and the story of PoF, it looks like Joko wasn't gone for too long yet... they're in that much of a mess without him?), the thing is that they ARE being taken cared of.

Even when I finally saw him in the underworld, he seems generally pissed due to what has happened with him and being double-crossed. I would be pissed too. Even more pissed as somehow someone who died in Elona doesn't even know who he is as he's ruled for quite a while after breaking free of his last prison that Ossa put him in.I for one did not like my character taunting, provoking, and talking down on him because from what I saw through the maps (100% the maps before I did the PoF story) and then seeing how his people and generals are treated... I like Joko.

Not the whole meme with the "PRAIS JOKO!", but he seems like he's got things under control. Whether real life or in-game, if the problem with him was trying to invade Elona for his own... he wasn't the 1st and certainly not the last. Especially the whole story behind Humans and Charrs how Humans were invading Charrs original homeland of Ascalon to take for their own and so on and so forth.

I've seen so many GW1 players really hating Joko and I'm wondering why?My 1st PoF playthrough I kept Amnoon central/independent, but I'm planning on my 2nd playthrough to side with Joko due to liking him.Just want some actual in-game info on what's the problem with Joko seeing how little info is seen through the wikis themselves.

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@"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

I've never played Guild Wars so I never had an interaction with him and even now the few Sunspears I see in GW2 "does" to me feel like a dying/dead army that were the once great ones that opposed Joko.

That's what they're supposed to be at this point. The Sunspears were Joko's greatest opposition from the start, and so he had to break them to take over, but that was 150 years ago. Since then he's had unquestioned control over not just Elona, but Elona's history (more on that later). It's frankly amazing that there are any Sunspears left today.

The things though that I see in Elona as Joko had control of the place seems like it's flourishing. The people don't look mistreated, they seem happy, the awakened are treated well from what it looks like. Even the little grunts known as Awakened Mummies the higher officers don't just want to head out and get them killed kind of seem like they don't just see them as "Well, we can make more so let them die anyway."

For the most part, that's true, but one note on the Awakened- behind the Necropolis, there's a place called... I believe the Boneyard. It's a sprawling, inescapable pit where Awakened who don't meet the standard of combat training at the Necropolis are dumped to listlessly waste away until their untended bodies break down. The mounds of bones in there are piled dozens of feet high. That's a recurring theme of Joko's reign- out in the open, everything is excellent, but it's built in part on terrible cruelties tucked away out of sight.

While yes it's bad to baby people to the point they don't even know how to kitten well take care of themselves (like that one renowned heart that I'm seeing clothes beyond repairs, not knowing how to do any work around the place and not even understanding how to cook while Joko isn't around.... and going by open world and the story of PoF, it looks like Joko wasn't gone for too long yet... they're in that much of a mess without him?), the thing is that they ARE being taken cared of.

That's the exception, not the rule, and it's deliberately being played up for laughs. What's happening in Vehjin Palace is that nobles are relying on servants for manual labor, same as nobles anywhere else. The only difference is that the servants at Vehjin happened to be Awakened, and so were called away to aid the war effort, leaving the nobles to their own devices. It has nothing to do with Joko, and their inability/unwillingness to do their own dishes or laundry is just the common trope of nobles being clueless without their servants being played up for laughs. (Away from the prince and his retinue, you actually do see that other nobles are making an earnest attempt at things like farming, which is damn hard if you've never thought about doing it before.)

Even when I finally saw him in the underworld, he seems generally pissed due to what has happened with him and being double-crossed. I would be pissed too. Even more pissed as somehow someone who died in Elona doesn't even know who he is as he's ruled for quite a while after breaking free of his last prison that Ossa put him in.

In our character's defense, that's what the Realm of the Lost is. All new arrivals have lost their memories. Joko should've understood that if he led Balthazar there, and certainly after the length of time he's spent trapped there.

I for one did not like my character taunting, provoking, and talking down on him because from what I saw through the maps (100% the maps before I did the PoF story) and then seeing how his people and generals are treated... I like Joko.

I don't like Joko, but the PC's gloating... that was just stupid. You're antagonizing a force beyond your ability to kill, knowing full well that if you succeed in your mission, he'll be unleashed on the world again. And for what?

Not the whole meme with the "PRAIS JOKO!", but he seems like he's got things under control. Whether real life or in-game, if the problem with him was trying to invade Elona for his own... he wasn't the 1st and certainly not the last. Especially the whole story behind Humans and Charrs how Humans were invading Charrs original homeland of Ascalon to take for their own and so on and so forth.

The issues of Joko's current reign largely boil down to two interconnected points- his brutality towards select segments of the population, and abusing his control over the flow of knowledge to leave the entire country fervently believing outright lies. The biggest example of the first is probably Palawa's Grace. Anyone who speaks out against his rule, questions the official narrative of history, or retains any vestige of devotion to the Six can be exiled permanently from the kingdom, never to see their families or friends again, and set to work at what amounts to slave labor in the fields to produce food for the kingdom. Should they fail to meet their quotas, whether they're reasonably low or unreasonably high, the Warden is empowered to slay them and raise them again as Awakened. The next time someone doesn't produce enough food, it might be their fellow exile who executes them.

Other examples are the patrols and hunting parties he sends after people trying to flee his kingdom (especially Ossas); his willingness to go to war with neutral parties in order to get at a single Sunspear; the 'harem' where he requires certain communities to send someone to be locked away in a vault in exchange for their family's, or village's, safety; what he boasts of as the genocide of the centaurs for no greater purpose than to use their bones to remodel his palace; his massacre of historians who retain knowledge of how things were before his rule; his willingness to indiscriminately starve large tracts of the countryside to solicit their cooperation; and his arrangement with Balthazar to enslave souls to further bolster his Awakened army. If you listen to the announcement system in Vabbi, you can possibly add two more to the list: a requirement that his subjects continuously hold him first and foremost in their thoughts (the 'Praise Joko' complex), and slavishly hard work for the living who don't happen to be privileged nobles (although that is hard to say, given that the parts of Vabbi that haven't been overrun by Forged or Branded are the ones that aren't populated by the common folk.)

Then we get into the history. I already mentioned his purge of pre-existing knowledge, and at Vehtendi Academy, we can see what he replaced it with: Palawa Joko singlehandedly slew Mordremoth, Zhaitan, and Abbadon. He drove the Six from Tyria. He never lost to Turai, it was Turai who lost to him at Jahai. The centaurs are all extinct. Nothing exists beyond Elona, just a barren wasteland peopled with savages. The Sunspears were bandits. Joko is invincible. Joko is god. Nothing else matters. Praise Joko. Praise Joko. Praise Joko.

I've seen so many GW1 players really hating Joko and I'm wondering why?Actually, in my experience, most GW1 players are among the happiest to see Joko back. For the ones who don't like him, I've seen it largely boil down to two or three things:1.) They loved Joko in GW1, and they hate to see what the devs have apparently done with him. In the first game, he had a dry wit, and was crafty, pragmatic, resourceful. In GW2, all of that character that made him arguably the best loved villain of the franchise has apparently been subsumed by an ego-driven god complex that, under the circumstances we meet him in, is equal parts absurd and pathetic. Instead of the cold and calculating mastermind who conquered a continent, we meet a character who becomes irrational whenever he encounters a being who doesn't bow down and worship him. It's too early to tell how deep that change goes, but some old players don't have faith that ANet will write the character deeper than his surface attributes.2.) Tahlkora. She was a companion in the first game, and fairly well liked. Joko has condemned her to an excruciating fate. For players who play because they like characters, there's no quicker way to end up on their kittenlist.3.) Joko taking credit for our own deeds, both in GW1 and 2. I think this complaint is more habit than anything, but one of the most entrenched trends in this community is a tendency to lash out at any character who is perceived as stealing the glory we 'deserve', the so-called Kormir Syndrome. It's more muted this time around, because Joko is an antagonist and there's an expectation that we'll be allowed to make him pay, but I've still heard the grumbling.

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Aaron Ansari explained it very well why I hate Joko. Him stealing the spotlight is irrelavant for me personally, I already disliked him in GW1. But in GW2 he is even more of a faschist, petty, vain, egodriven and ruthless character. He embodies literally the worst chapters of Western Europes history, and I am indeed really hyped by the thought that we may place the banners of the sunspears on the remains of his last burning retreat on day.

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Joko has created 1984 or North Korea, you can see the nice facade (I would point out all the beauty was there before him) but just behind it is a mass grave and secret police. He was a much more fun character in GW1, charisma helps when you plan on building an empire. What we see in GW2 is him after he's had complete dominance for 150 years, so he is far more triumphal and feels untouchable (which is why he is so angry at being imprisoned, he hasn't felt impotent in a long while and the last time he was imprisoned it was for a very long time). Joko does not forgive or forget, I personally think it was foolish to leave him chained, he would be automatically released on Balth's death and now will not be pleased with us for leaving him there.

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@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:Tons of awesome stuff.

Never thought of that actually. I remember being near the boneyard but I haven't actually been inside. Really should check that out.From what you've said, I can see how it's one of those situations of "Good on the outside... screwed up to hell and back from within."

@Coulter.2315 said:Joko has created 1984 or North Korea, you can see the nice facade (I would point out all the beauty was there before him) but just behind it is a mass grave and secret police. He was a much more fun character in GW1, charisma helps when you plan on building an empire. What we see in GW2 is him after he's had complete dominance for 150 years, so he is far more triumphal and feels untouchable (which is why he is so angry at being imprisoned, he hasn't felt impotent in a long while and the last time he was imprisoned it was for a very long time). Joko does not forgive or forget, I personally think it was foolish to leave him chained, he would be automatically released on Balth's death and now will not be pleased with us for leaving him there.

This also helps too. I know quite a bit about North Korea's history from random research on it many years back and with the current events going on... it seems it hasn't changed.

As @Aaron Ansari.1604 stated about how he's gotten a bit egotistical and actually think he's a God and the mentioning on North Korea is pretty spot on.You must look up to him as your god and praise him in life and death or you will suffer severe punishment.Ouch...

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@"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:That's the exception, not the rule, and it's deliberately being played up for laughs. What's happening in Vehjin Palace is that nobles are relying on servants for manual labor, same as nobles anywhere else. The only difference is that the servants at Vehjin happened to be Awakened, and so were called away to aid the war effort, leaving the nobles to their own devices. It has nothing to do with Joko, and their inability/unwillingness to do their own dishes or laundry is just the common trope of nobles being clueless without their servants being played up for laughs. (Away from the prince and his retinue, you actually do see that other nobles are making an earnest attempt at things like farming, which is kitten hard if you've never thought about doing it before.)

That's an interesting observation. Nobility in Guild Wars 2 is generally portrayed cartoonishly which I wouldn't read too much into. It's just a part of the game that doesn't take itself seriously. The best examples of realistic nobility portrayed in the game are usually hidden in open world NPC dialogue like in Beetletun where you have an example of how a subdivision of land is administrated in Kryta.

As for the OP's question, I think that modern-day Vabbi is the most interesting culture presented in-game. It reminds me of a faction that could exist in the world of the Witcher, Dark Souls or a medieval history book. They're complex, morally grey and interesting to write about because they feel real. Emperors are usually not very nice people, but they can also be relatable and multifaceted if written by someone who knows how to write good antagonists. Good works of fiction aren't produced by erasing all of the problems that real societies face. Even if they do depose Joko, someone Joko-like will just take his place and the cycle of succession will continue under the same system until it falls apart like the Roman empire did and all of its provinces go on to perpetuate the cycle on a different scale.

It's also nothing like North Korea. Sorry folks, but North Korea didn't invent the idea of building large walls or shipping peasants off to work farms. Before the 20th and 21st century there were these things called empires, absolute monarchies and feudalism. They lasted for a very long time and contemporary society is just a drop of water in the ocean of time. This reminds me of the trend in video game news where every game that is vaguely difficult gets compared to Dark Souls to the point where Cuphead was called the "Dark Souls of side-scrolling games". It is entirely possible that Tyria is not a facsimile of 21st-century Earth politics. In which case, you may note that empires, absolute monarchies and feudalism existed for a very long time in our world and didn't go away overnight.

If writers used their godlike powers to rewrite the history of their worlds to erase injustices because they don't like them then they're erasing conflict, and that's just shooting yourself in the foot. Stories need interesting conflict that is difficult to resolve for the protagonists or else the resolution feels cheap. You can't defeat Sauron in the Silmarillion because you still need him for the next three books of the Lord of the Rings. No story should be about how the heroes knock every bad guy out of the park. That's just boring and predictable. You need to have a few on-again-off-again antagonists who can be on your side in one book and up against you in the next, heroic antagonists, et cetera, et cetera. That's how you keep a series fresh and interesting. Joko as a running character is good for series longevity and that's more important than finding another HP bar to put in the villain graveyard.

Also, on the topic of Joko deifying himself, just take a look at all of these real-world cultures who had very similar ideas about their rulers. (Another concept that North Korea did not invent...) Do note that there was a 3000-year span of history where the pharaohs of Egypt were deifying themselves and the culture of that time period seemed to accept it. It's possible to write a fantasy culture with a leader who deifies himself that is based on similar cultures to the ones on the above list.

Oh, and on the topic of rewriting history, please note this other historical phenomenon. It's called damnatio memoriae which is a fancy way of saying that the truth of a person's existence is systemically erased from history. Writing cultures where these phenomena exists, make sense and can be justified in the minds of the perpetrators is good worldbuilding, so good job writers on getting that part right.

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Joko is not really on your side at any time. Joko only knows one side, the side of Joko. You can basically count on the fact that he is a betrayer and opportunist which makes it even more easy to hate and be frustrated about him because he most of the time gets away with being such a skritt. In this, he is indeed well written but Anet cannot sell him as border walker to me anymore. It would probably have worked with Lazarus if the story was not that humancentric because he was already on the brink of defeat for a long time and could have managed what Joko impressively failed in, put things in perspective.

A good example of an "evil tweener" would be Artemis Entreri. He´s a ruthless, cunning, turncoat Assassin at the peak of his abilities who ends lives at his leisure and is totally indifferent to people who endure hard times. Still he appears lifeless and unconcerned for anything until he meets Drizzt, the one guy that can not only face but defeat him. This kind of reanimates him and he turns even more grey when he is paired with Jarlaxle Baenre.A "good tweener" would be Snake Plissken. Betrayed and fooled once too often, he has grown unconcerned for humanity and society at large and has not qualm of killing thousands of people in hospitals who need machines to work adequately when he cuts electric power of the whole world or casuallys shoots a guy who threatens him. But I always have the impression that he is a loyal friend once you have earned it and will hold up his end of a bargain even if it is very costly for him. Both Harold and Hershie die when they try to flee but in both instances it is not Snakes fault. He even makes a meek attempt to turn the president back to a more peaceful approach.

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I've only read the one Drizzt book where the drow sorceress summons a demon that the barbarian kills by bringing the roof of a building down on both himself and the demon—the one where he was supposed to marry Drizzt's love interest. In that book, Artemis didn't strike me as particularly trustworthy. He pretended to be Drizzt's halfling friend using a magic amulet and then tried to kill them both. Of course, he did fight on the same side as Drizzt in one scene of that novel so there was an unpredictable element to him.

I think that Joko had demonstrated his ability to cooperate with the good guys in the past and might do so again depending on the player's alignment. He helped you kill Varesh and Abaddon by lending you his junundu. In the present timeline, I could see Dragon's Watch being useful to an emperor with a dragon problem on his doorstep. Good villains are smart enough to reserve their atrocities for their enemies while giving hugs and kisses to their servants. Joko is capable of being both loved and feared which is a good combination for a potential 'evil tweenie' as I think you called it.

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Artemis Entreri has only the slightest hint of good in him, it gets a little bit more when you go on with his character. It is barely enough to accept him as ally in my opinion, and he had to go a long way to allow me to see him as that.

Joko has never done anything that you can call altruistic, I just can´t find any redeeming qualities and have absolutely no sympathy for him. Of course he can work with the heroes, but that does nothing for my perception of him being one of the blackest tracks in the underwear of history. What makes him especially desipable for me is that he shows the probably most deceptive face of a tyrant, the noble ruler that grants you total safety for the really small price of accepting him as an undisputed ruler. He knows better than you anyway, and any other opinion would just be a distraction at least or dangerous for the peace of the state at worst.

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If you're comparing Artemis, a character who has already gone through his entire arc with Drizzt and Joko, a character who has only been on screen for a few minutes in GW2 'then of course you're going to see a difference in their moral complexity. In the book that I read, Artemis was not a sympathetic character—he wasn't supposed to be at that stage in the arc—and I wouldn't say that 'altruistic' would be a word I'd use to describe his plot to kidnap the halfling companion of Drizzt, wear his appearance with a magic necklace and then try to murder him. Complex relationships like the one between Drizzt and Artemis take time to flesh out but they're obviously memorable enough for the two of us to be reminiscing about it here. That's proof enough to me that they're powerful stories that are worth remembering if properly executed. Joko's character is worth more 'alive' than in the villain graveyard. You're not going to have an Artemis Entreri relationship arc if you as a writer kill off every potential candidate the next book after they're introduced. That's how forgettable characters are written.

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I'm just annoyed since I was hoping for a team-up with Joko against Balthazar in a "war makes strange bedfellows" kind of way but GW2 writing staff played him completely for laughs and a RARRGH I'M AN EVIL TYRANT sort of way, no grey areas whatsoever.

The actual Vabbi worldbuilding content is much better than the portrayal of Joko himself. Which is also odd that GW2 staff sure likes the Joko memes, they just didn't want to write him well. in their actual game.

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@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:That's the exception, not the rule, and it's deliberately being played up for laughs. What's happening in Vehjin Palace is that nobles are relying on servants for manual labor, same as nobles anywhere else. The only difference is that the servants at Vehjin happened to be Awakened, and so were called away to aid the war effort, leaving the nobles to their own devices. It has nothing to do with Joko, and their inability/unwillingness to do their own dishes or laundry is just the common trope of nobles being clueless without their servants being played up for laughs. (Away from the prince and his retinue, you actually do see that other nobles are making an earnest attempt at things like farming, which is kitten hard if you've never thought about doing it before.)

Actually, this place is a body farm. These nobles are to be maintained healthy so they can reproduce. The sole purpose is for them to repopulate Joko's army. Their life cycle is all over that area.

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The only bodies allowed to enter the Mordant Crescent appear to be those whose living relatives have brought them to the Necropolis to be judged before their peers and sentenced by a judge. Not all citizens of Vabbi share this fate and the rest are most likely cremated judging by the funeral procession dialogue. In which case, there actually appears to be some degree of choice in the matter since someone whose family decides not to bring the deceased person's body to trial will most likely not be reanimated. The push towards a body being reanimated must come from the person's living relatives who have an incentive to add members of their family to the king's army. It's considered more of a status symbol than a chore to the people who bring their dead to court so "body farm" wouldn't be an accurate description from the indigenous perspective.

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Joko is the affable antagonist to the Sunspear Order. While often portrayed as cartoonishly evil, his principle concern is for the health of his empire and its citizenry. For instance, if Joko wanted to subjugate Vabbi without regard for its inhabitants, he could have run rough shod over them with his undead armies. However, he instead dammed the River Elon and quietly besieged the region until the Vabbians surrendered without a real fight. Joko is a schemer, a strategist and a re-shaper. He isn't really a villain more than he is a force of nature. He had a vision for the future of Elona and its people, and he intended to realize that vision.

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My one trike with this Joko is that he was always made up to be this warmongrel, but a competent general and leader. He manipulated a great folks and led with iron rule.But in PoF he was reduced to this “IM GOD, BOW BEFORE ME, HOW DARE YOU NOT TREAT ME LIKE A GOD” and it just makes his entire reign hilarious.. or ridiculous..

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@Athrenn.9468 said:

It's also nothing like South Korea.

I assumed this was a mental mistake, but you wrote 'South Korea' consistently throughout your post. Was there a reason for that? North Korea is dystopian dictatorship; South Korea is a democracy with one of the most successful economies in the entire world.

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:My one trike with this Joko is that he was always made up to be this warmongrel, but a competent general and leader. He manipulated a great folks and led with iron rule.But in PoF he was reduced to this “IM GOD, BOW BEFORE ME, HOW DARE YOU NOT TREAT ME LIKE A GOD” and it just makes his entire reign hilarious.. or ridiculous..

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/A_Deal%27s_a_Deal

Intermediate cinematicPalawa Joko: "You miserable hunks of desiccated flesh! I leave you alone for a few hundred years and you let everything go to hell! Now that I'm back, things are going to be different."Palawa Joko: "No, No, No! Mummified flesh on the left! Dried bones on the right! No, your other right! You worthless bits of animated anatomy!"

He is as funny as usual to my opinion.

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@Fluffball.8307 said:

@Athrenn.9468 said:

It's also nothing like South Korea.

I assumed this was a mental mistake, but you wrote 'South Korea' consistently throughout your post. Was there a reason for that? North Korea is dystopian dictatorship; South Korea is a democracy with one of the most successful economies in the entire world.

My mistake, I'll fix that when I can edit more easily. My brain flipped the words around like it sometimes does. This also happens to numbers.

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@Athrenn.9468 said:The only bodies allowed to enter the Mordant Crescent appear to be those whose living relatives have brought them to the Necropolis to be judged before their peers and sentenced by a judge. Not all citizens of Vabbi share this fate and the rest are most likely cremated judging by the funeral procession dialogue. In which case, there actually appears to be some degree of choice in the matter since someone whose family decides not to bring the deceased person's body to trial will most likely not be reanimated. The push towards a body being reanimated must come from the person's living relatives who have an incentive to add members of their family to the king's army. It's considered more of a status symbol than a chore to the people who bring their dead to court so "body farm" wouldn't be an accurate description from the indigenous perspective.

You mean Awakened? The Mordant Crescent are specifically ex-Sunspears that defected.

That's part of the whole 'nice facade, rotten underneath' nature of Joko's empire, however.

Within Vabbi, being Awakened is seen as being an honour, which is only granted by those that are deemed 'worthy'. (We also see this in some other places, like that hero challenge south of Amnoon). This is essentially a psychological trick, akin to the emperor's new clothes in the fairy tale: by making it seem exclusive and prestigious, Joko turns it into something people want when otherwise they might consider it to be horrible.

Meanwhile, in other parts of Joko's domain, we see people getting murdered to be raised as Awakened, or even graves being robbed to provide more raw material. So clearly, Joko's forces aren't actually selective about who is granted the 'honour' of being awakened. It's just that in areas where Joko and his lackeys want to rule with a lighter touch, they perform their 'recruitment' by persuading people that it's a desirable state to be. In those where they're more inclined to show their true colours, they're more inclined to just take.

One other consideration is that it's possible that willing Awakened make better Awakened than bodies taken by force. It's possible that those taken by force can only be allowed a certain degree of autonomy or they'll rebel given the opportunity (a lesson Joko may have learned from the chaos of his empire in GW1). Creating officers for the Awakened army probably requires willing, loyal converts.

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@draxynnic.3719 said:You mean Awakened?

No, I meant Mordant Crescent. That may have been true as of the publication of the Movement of the World but new dynamic events say otherwise.

Help Okoro test his mettle by training with him:

Okoro: My youngest son, Okan, sees the value of strength and trains tirelessly to overcome hurdles before anyone else. He is sure to be accepted into the Mordant Crescent. He sets a fine example for his older brothers.

That's one example of a Vabbian citizen who is hoping to see his son accepted into the Mordant Crescent after death, not just to be reanimated as an Awakened soldier.

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@Athrenn.9468 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:You mean Awakened?

No, I meant Mordant Crescent. That may have been true as of the publication of the Movement of the World but new dynamic events say otherwise.

:

Okoro:
My youngest son, Okan, sees the value of strength and trains tirelessly to overcome hurdles before anyone else. He is sure to be accepted into the Mordant Crescent. He sets a fine example for his older brothers.

That's one example of a Vabbian citizen who is hoping to see his son accepted into the Mordant Crescent after death, not just to be reanimated as an Awakened soldier.

That is a shift. Being one event, it's possible that the devs kittened up and put the wrong thing in, but taking it as canon, it does actually seem to add more evidence to my hypothesis: with the Mordant Crescent essentially being the 'officer caste', this hints that Joko wants his officer corps to be volunteers who believe (at least initially...) that it's an exclusive honour.

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I think it was mentioned somewhere that the Mordent Crescent was only initially made from Sunspears. It has broadened its base sense then. Also, Sunspear numbers are probably far too small now to fully force a military unit indefinitely. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more MC than actual living Sunspears at this point.

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@Squee.7829 said:I think it was mentioned somewhere that the Mordent Crescent was only initially made from Sunspears. It has broadened its base sense then. Also, Sunspear numbers are probably far too small now to fully force a military unit indefinitely. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more MC than actual living Sunspears at this point.

Quite likely, particularly given that Awakened Mordant Crescent aren't going to be subject to attrition from dying of old age.

Due to various circumstances, I haven't been able to explore PoF nearly as much as I'd like two months in - in that two months, I think I've had less than two weeks where I've been able to do much more than just grab the dailies. So there's probably quite a few such details I just haven't had the opportunity to come across yet.

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