Imperial.8471 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Lately I've been making heal boon build for most classes for pve endgame content and today I was looking at the warrior. The main source of team heal for it is shouts with the Tactics trait Vigorous Shouts, that shoutsworn have been using in pvp before harsh nerfs. But the heal from Vigorous shouts is not even close to the heal from firebrands, druids or tempests. Also, shouts compete with quickness giving banners for utility slots, so the warrior can give quickness and very small heal, or decent heal and no quickness from banners. Then I paid attention to the usually ignored signature of the Tactics trait line: Soldier's Focus. As it is, every 10s using a burst skill gives 3 stacks of might to allies in a 300 radius. 3 might every 10 seconds, no wonder no one cares. But this Soldier's Focus can be improved by the Tactics traits. -Soldier's Comfort heals affected allies, by 1k with no healing power up to over 2k in full harrier gear and healing power from Vigorous Shouts -Empower Allies, in addition to giving 5 might to allies every 10s, increases the radius of Soldier's Focus to a more useful 600 -Martial Cadence makes Soldier's Focus grant quickness, 3s with no boon duration, 6s with harrier gear With these traits, Soldier's Focus can both heal and give quickness, in a offensive style using burst skills fitting of a warrior. Said like that, it sounds great, but it's rendered useless by a 10 seconds recharge time, unaffected by alacrity like all traits. Because of this awful recharge time, it can't upkeep permanent quickness by itself and can only heal 2k (in harrier gear) every 10 seconds. While losing the healing from Vigorous Shouts, the concentration and fury from Roaring Reveille and condi cleanse from Shrug It Off. But now imagine the cooldown is removed or reduced to 1s. A Berserker or Spellbreaker could with the Discipline Fast Hands trait could easily use 3 burst skills in a raw to provide a good burst heal and permanent quickness. A Bladesworn with Daring Dragon could provide burst healing to superior to the best healers of the current meta. A single recharge time modification could turn the warrior from the worst healer with Mesmer to a meta heal quick for strikes and raids. So, to keep things a bit more balanced I've been thinking of an update of others traits as well: -Marching Orders: interval reduced to 1s -Soldier's Comfort: increased heal attribute scaling from 0.8 to 1.1 -Martial Cadence: quickness duration reduced from 3s to 1.5s -Doubled Standards: Banners now provide Barrier when initially dropped instead of quickness Swap Roaring Reveille and Vengeful Return These modifications should make the warrior a real quick healer, with a gameplay that still requires a warrior fitting offensive with burst skills and more complexity than the druid or firebrand built to be the easy healers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Unless you want decapitate spamming berserker to be a heal warrior, I think the trait should have 4s cooldown (resulting in ~500 per second with your number of 2K heal). This way if you have two bursts at 8s cooldown it would be in line with what you would be able to use even on a core warrior. You're pretty much going to run discipline for reduced burst cooldown anyway ; realistically you'd need a support mainhand weapon in order to be considered a true healer (see the same scenario as chrono or scourge as opposed to any guardian with a mace, druid with staff, rev with staff and ventari, ele with staff or even dagger, mechanist with mace / med kit, and even to a lesser extent specter with scepters ). Also the rest of your suggestions are largely inconsequential in a group scenario or at worst a nerf (Doubled Standards and Martial Cadence). I'm pretty sure you need quickness outside of Banner of Tactics in order to maintain quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial.8471 Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 500 heal/s is nothing. Any meta healer can do 2-3k, ele's passive Soothing Mist alone is 1k/s. The point here is to make the warrior a good healer, not give a worse alternative to shouts. So a decapitate spamming berserker could be an option yes. To be able to burst 2k/s Also yes, Martial Cadence is a nerf to match the boost of Soldier's Focus. Giving 3s of quickness possibly every second with no concentration is just overpowered. Even 1.5s is probably too much And since you'd now give quickness through Martial Cadence, the quickness from Double Standards becomes useless, hence the replacement by barrier for a ponctual extra protection on top of the heal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Soldier's Comfort needs to be tiered based on Adrenaline usage along with very high HP scaling. 500 on a T1 with 0.5 scaling, 1000 with 1.0 scaling on T2 and 2000 with 1.5 scaling on T3 or something along those lines. If they move to how they have been doing Burst traits it would be more like: Heal allies in the area for 250 HP (no scaling) when using a Burst skill, heal for more per adrenaline spent. T1: 250 with 0.5 scaling T2: 750 with 1.0 scaling T3: 1750 with 1.5 scaling. Then remove the CD. Berserker wouldn't overheal with no HP investment. Spellbreaker could be psuedo support with burst->swap->burst->FC->burst. BSW with DD would be in a similar boat as Berserker but could function as a solid heal support as well. Beyond an actual support MH/2H weapon is needed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial.8471 Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 The adrenaline tier base is a great idea, though I'd increase the scaling coeficient to 1, 1.2 and 1.5. That way a harrier geared decapitate berserker or DD bladesworn could give a constant heal around 1.5k/s, while a warrior using a longer to charge tier 3 burst could heal 4k in one move. And with no healing power it would heal very little 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Imperial.8471 said: 500 heal/s is nothing. Any meta healer can do 2-3k, ele's passive Soothing Mist alone is 1k/s. The point here is to make the warrior a good healer, not give a worse alternative to shouts. So a decapitate spamming berserker could be an option yes. To be able to burst 2k/s Also yes, Martial Cadence is a nerf to match the boost of Soldier's Focus. Giving 3s of quickness possibly every second with no concentration is just overpowered. Even 1.5s is probably too much And since you'd now give quickness through Martial Cadence, the quickness from Double Standards becomes useless, hence the replacement by barrier for a ponctual extra protection on top of the heal It's additional to the Vigorous Shouts heals, if you tune it to be 1s cooldown expect it to be run on Decapitate berserker and not much else. 2K burst heal and 2K/second just spamming a burst are not the same thing: just because the skill is a burst skill type doesn't make it a burst heal. Most semi-passive heals such as auto attacks are ~300ish per heal.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rejuvenating_Assault --- auto chain ~2.25s https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Faithful_Strike --- auto chain ~3.26shttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Solar_Beam https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Water_Blast Soothing Mist isn't 1K per second per person healed. It is 800+1.0*healing power over 10 seconds, meaning ~200 second unless you run Soothing Power for Soothing Mist doubled. Application interval is 3s. (Absolute Resolve is around the same amount on firebrands sharing resolve and the meta PVE variant runs axe not mace.) I don't understand your point about martial cadence, your posts reads: "Martial Cadence makes Soldier's Focus grant quickness, 3s with no boon duration, 6s with harrier gear" and in the same post also "Martial Cadence: quickness duration reduced from 3s to 1.5s" edit: the main reason I'm quite wary about removing quickness off banners and then messing about with Martial Cadence is speedclear groups have been stacking Bladesworns for quickness output. There have even been calls for nerfs and removal of quickness from tactics altogether. If you decouple the quickness from banners you end up with an even larger stacking problem while hurting condi quickness berserker which arguably is harder to play in a general sense of skill rotation. It would be far better to improve quickness on warhorn if you want additional quickness since taking warhorn is a large damage loss on just about every warrior except bladesworn. Edited January 3, 2023 by Infusion.7149 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial.8471 Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 When you have the martial cadence trait, soldier's focus also gives quickness, with a base duration of 3s. So if you give soldier's focus a 1s cooldown, you need to decrease the duration of martial cadence's quickness to keep balance. And if you remove the quickness from doubled standards, you'll need to take martial cadence to give quickness, which is mutually exclusive with vigorous shouts. So you either give excellent heal with no quickness, or lower but still good healing with quickness You're right that i overestimated other classes' heals like soothing mist, but other classes also have more options besides auto attack. All 5 of a druid's staff skills heal. Warrior wouldn't have as many options. So maybe the heal from soldier's comfort shouldn't be as powerful as I first thought, but going for 500hp/s feels too low for the main source of heal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Just now, Imperial.8471 said: When you have the martial cadence trait, soldier's focus also gives quickness, with a base duration of 3s. So if you give soldier's focus a 1s cooldown, you need to decrease the duration of martial cadence's quickness to keep balance. And if you remove the quickness from doubled standards, you'll need to take martial cadence to give quickness, which is mutually exclusive with vigorous shouts. So you either give excellent heal with no quickness, or lower but still good healing with quickness You're right that i overestimated other classes' heals like soothing mist, but other classes also have more options besides auto attack. All 5 of a druid's staff skills heal. Warrior wouldn't have as many options. So maybe the heal from soldier's comfort shouldn't be as powerful as I first thought, but going for 500hp/s feels too low for the main source of heal. Then you put the ICD on martial cadence instead of the soldier's focus. Why mess around with the martial cadence trait ESPECIALLY when people are asking for it to be outright nerfed. It's asking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial.8471 Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 The martial cadence trait is meant to trigger with soldier's focus, that's the concept. And right now it gives 6s quickness with maxed concentration on the 10s cooldown of soldier's focus. So it's not enough on it's own without banners. And the idea of my modifications is to make the warrior give quickness through martial cadence instead of banners. To have a coherent gameplay around soldier's focus instead of random bits of traits here and there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Imperial.8471 said: The martial cadence trait is meant to trigger with soldier's focus, that's the concept. And right now it gives 6s quickness with maxed concentration on the 10s cooldown of soldier's focus. So it's not enough on it's own without banners. And the idea of my modifications is to make the warrior give quickness through martial cadence instead of banners. To have a coherent gameplay around soldier's focus instead of random bits of traits here and there You do realize people already run martial cadence on full DPS warriors? That is the reason martial cadence should not be touched at all because trust me I am certain it would be severely nerfed and not buffed in the way you want it. If you require 100% boon duration people can just stack 2 warriors with the build. It has happened before and even on renegade people were using condi RR renegades. The only way around it is banners are required to solo provide quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 46 minutes ago, Imperial.8471 said: The adrenaline tier base is a great idea, though I'd increase the scaling coeficient to 1, 1.2 and 1.5. That way a harrier geared decapitate berserker or DD bladesworn could give a constant heal around 1.5k/s, while a warrior using a longer to charge tier 3 burst could heal 4k in one move. And with no healing power it would heal very little Then that would have to be split for PvE/Competitive. If T1s could heal for that much you'd see some problematic bunkers pop up. Shoutsworn was pulling ~1.5k HP/s and people couldn't kill it, we don't want that on any spec. Low base, high scaling, and if it is tied to burst then it needs very low base on T1 and high base on T3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial.8471 Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) Scrappers can give permanent quickness solo in full berserker gear. Same for catalysts. Martial Cadence warriors would have to be 2 right now. How is that too powerful ? And if you associate a weaker martial cadence with a soldier's focus with 1s cooldown, you'd have to be spamming burst skills to upkeep quickness, instead of the current version that lets you do other things in the 10s cooldown And yes Lan, I was speaking about PvE. I don't know PvP well enough to go there Edited January 3, 2023 by Imperial.8471 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Imperial.8471 said: Scrappers can give permanent quickness solo in full berserker gear. Same for catalysts. Martial Cadence warriors would have to be 2 right now. How is that too powerful ? And if you associate a weaker martial cadence with a soldier's focus with 1s cooldown, you'd have to be spamming burst skills to upkeep quickness, instead of the current version that let's you do other things in the 10s cooldown And yes Lan, I was speaking about PvE. I don't know PvP well enough to go there That quickness comes at a severe DPS loss to the tune of 5K or 7K (note quick scrapper does need diviner's pieces as well). Meta variants of DPS warrior are already running martial cadence and I distinctly remember people calling for its nerf (which I was against). Yet here you are asking for it to be buffed. edit: for clarity , people aren't stacking two bladesworns in a party I think it was 4 and one alacrity mechanist or something edit 2: see Edited January 3, 2023 by Infusion.7149 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial.8471 Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 I'm asking for it to be modified to work with other traits, not for a dumb buff. And a dps warrior in berserker gear gets only 3s of quickness every 10s. If you want to rely on 2 warriors with that trait as it is now you'd need diviner gear, so a dps loss as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Imperial.8471 said: I'm asking for it to be modified to work with other traits, not for a dumb buff. And a dps warrior in berserker gear gets only 3s of quickness every 10s. If you want to rely on 2 warriors with that trait as it is now you'd need diviner gear, so a dps loss as well My question to you is why would someone prefer that over the current iteration which is ~30-32K solo quickness which really isn't that bad and ~39-40K stacking 4 warriors in a subgroup? Your dual warrior setup would need to 35K and given that reaper/DH/scrapper/daredevil/power berserker are benching something around that I don't think it would be something Arenanet would entertain. In the past Arenanet has stated they are aiming for DPS support (alac/quick) to be 75% of a full DPS (see https://www.pcgamer.com/the-future-of-guild-wars-2-arenanet-announces-return-of-season-1-and-teases-next-expansion/). It makes sense to reduce the cooldown from the soldier's focus trait since even core warrior can burst every 6s with alac and 3 stacks of might is not that amazing (see scepter on guardian and more importantly rifle on engineer, or greatsword on mesmer). Balancing around 1 second cooldown means you can only play with decapitate : even berserker bursts are 5s base cooldown (3.5s under alac with discipline). A reduced cooldown on soldier's focus only would help out any pseudo support build : running Soldier's Comfort is a 10% DPS loss. Isn't that your goal, to improve warrior healing? Edited January 3, 2023 by Infusion.7149 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial.8471 Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 The idea is not only to improve warrior healing, it's also to make sense of the Tactics trait line. Instead of relying on vigorous shouts and doubled standards for heal and quickness when soldier's focus, the trait line signature, is supposed to do the same, the idea is to rework soldier's focus to make it usable. And not just by a speedrun niche of 4 stacked bladesworn. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 24 minutes ago, Imperial.8471 said: The idea is not only to improve warrior healing, it's also to make sense of the Tactics trait line. Instead of relying on vigorous shouts and doubled standards for heal and quickness when soldier's focus, the trait line signature, is supposed to do the same, the idea is to rework soldier's focus to make it usable. And not just by a speedrun niche of 4 stacked bladesworn. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Tactics has always been about team support: it's the only line that has team support other than doubled standards post banner rework. Even in the initial days of raiding we had Empower Allies / Phalanx Strength warriors. The key point of warrior support is might generation, so improving soldier's focus exclusively would already do that and there would be no need for any improvement to Soldier's Comfort. Martial Cadence is a completely separate manner since it is an optional trait. Quickness application in general is only a recent change post EoD. Even if your suggestions are implemented then you end up with a dilemma of who is taking a "heal quickness berserker". Condi quickness berserker and quickness bladesworn already exist, your whole idea is trying to shoehorn warrior into a healing role when there is no heal elite spec. See what happened with shoutsworn in competitive modes ; PVP shout spellbreaker still exists. Unless you are trying to get Arenanet to completely change the tactics traitline , any "healing warrior" more or less is going to run: the shout heal ("To the Limit"), "Shake it Off" or "For Great Justice" which are both ammo skills in PVE with 25s cooldown warhorn offhand (which has a big barrier on Call of Valor), Battle Standard now that Tactical Reload doesn't work on general ammo skills, and banner of tactics (quickness and stab) / banner of defense (aegis, barrier, regen). In addition to that, requiring constant bursts to apply quickness is far worse design than just plopping banners down: requiring banners that do nearly no damage keeps the (solo) DPS quickness builds in check. The only thing reasonable here is a reduction in ICD for soldier's focus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoftFootpaws.9134 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) This is a rough one since Martial Cadence is currently meta-defining. Buffing Soldier's Focus in any way could make it over the top , as 2-3 Warriors are already taken in raids instead of a Quickness healer since this is already Warrior's best secondary DPS tree and they get 30% Quickness uptime for free on damage builds. Yes, its true that currently this is crippling healing builds, as did the huge nerf to Bladesworn in PvP, which affected PvE. Prior to this Healsworn was competitive to FB and HAM when played properly due to extremely low cooldowns from Lush Forest resulting in overwhelming shout spam at 4k per heal, plus Regeneration and barriers. Unfortunately, any hope of Warrior healing allies has been completely destroyed. Fixing Soldier's Focus would likely just improve DPS builds even further, rather than the opposite. Edited January 5, 2023 by Mariyuuna.6508 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said: This is a rough one since Martial Cadence is currently meta-defining. Buffing Soldier's Focus in any way could make it over the top , as 2-3 Warriors are already taken in raids instead of a Quickness healer since this is already Warrior's best secondary DPS tree and they get 30% Quickness uptime for free on damage builds. Yes, its true that currently this is crippling healing builds, as did the huge nerf to Bladesworn in PvP, which affected PvE. Prior to this Healsworn was competitive to FB and HAM when played properly due to extremely low cooldowns from Lush Forest resulting in overwhelming shout spam at 4k per heal, plus Regeneration and barriers. Unfortunately, any hope of Warrior healing allies has been completely destroyed. Fixing Soldier's Focus would likely just improve DPS builds even further, rather than the opposite. Martial Cadence could be given a 10s+ ICD and then the Soldier's Focus trait could be given 4-5s cooldown if a heal warrior is the goal (requiring Soldier's Comfort which is a 10% DPS loss in PVE). Do you not agree that leaving quickness on banners is the best option for the game balance to stay intact? Every single speedclear player complaining about Bladesworn stacking has advocated for the removal of martial cadence exclusively. The suggestion by the topic poster was to double down on martial cadence... I did a little more digging beyond the confines of the official forum, there's numerous threads such as : https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/yx304b/how_did_martial_cadence_avoid_a_nerf/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/z3q3ia/mca_abusing_bladesworn_until_anet_nerfs_it_part_3/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/ytv6gg/raid_perspective_balance_patch/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/yw34b7/cardinal_adina_record_by_the_hybridosaurus_aves/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/wsjj3n/mca_bringing_portal_bombs_to_pve_gorseval/ Edited January 5, 2023 by Infusion.7149 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 I got a feeling that the reason soldier's focus heal is low is more tied to the warrior's self sustain than to it's ability to support. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said: I got a feeling that the reason soldier's focus heal is low is more tied to the warrior's self sustain than to it's ability to support. If you don't have healing power it (Soldier's Comfort , not Focus) heals for ~1K in PVE over 10 seconds (970+0.8*healing power) which is near negligible when you consider Mending Might minor trait is 69 with 0 healing power per might stack (it scales at the rate of 0.01 , meaning 1K healing power is 10 more healing). Regeneration without healing power or modifiers is 130 per second. You would also be better off with MMR on the strength line and Adrenal Health is ~100 per stack in PVE without a trait investment beyond running Defense. While a 1s cooldown on Soldier's Focus is excessive and literally only benefits axe berserker, a 4-5s cooldown would be in line with weapon swap traits and a be a decent improvement to core warriors running strength+discipline+tactics. Right now it appears to balance around camping a single weapon on non-Berserkers (8s cooldown on burst whereas Berserkers have 5s cooldown bursts) without discipline traitline , alacrity, or weaponswaps. If you even look at spellbreaker , two bursts at 8s base cooldown means effectively 4s cooldown between two of them without any weaponswap required (before alacrity or discipline traitline). Edited January 5, 2023 by Infusion.7149 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 From my recommendations in the past: Remove the CD from Marching Orders. Give Martial Cadence a 10s CD Give Soldiers Comfort a 5s CD Soldiers Comfort gains a tiered burst use structure with higher healing per tier, but low base and low scaling at T1. T3 would have a moderate base, but high scaling to enforce stat investment for maximum effect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 11 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said: If you don't have healing power it (Soldier's Comfort , not Focus) heals for ~1K in PVE over 10 seconds (970+0.8*healing power) which is near negligible when you consider Mending Might minor trait is 69 with 0 healing power per might stack (it scales at the rate of 0.01 , meaning 1K healing power is 10 more healing). Regeneration without healing power or modifiers is 130 per second. You would also be better off with MMR on the strength line and Adrenal Health is ~100 per stack in PVE without a trait investment beyond running Defense. While a 1s cooldown on Soldier's Focus is excessive and literally only benefits axe berserker, a 4-5s cooldown would be in line with weapon swap traits and a be a decent improvement to core warriors running strength+discipline+tactics. Right now it appears to balance around camping a single weapon on non-Berserkers (8s cooldown on burst whereas Berserkers have 5s cooldown bursts) without discipline traitline , alacrity, or weaponswaps. If you even look at spellbreaker , two bursts at 8s base cooldown means effectively 4s cooldown between two of them without any weaponswap required (before alacrity or discipline traitline). I think you don't get it. Soldier's focus grant 3 stack of might to 5 allies from marching order. Soldier's confort add a 970-1074 heal for 5 allies. Empower allies will grant 5 might to 5 allies every 10s. vigorous shout will add 1000 health per shout. The key stone for sustain is Mending might 51 per might stack (going with sPvP values). Every 10s you potentially got: - 1074 health from soldier's confort - 15 might stack for 765 health from marching order - 25 might stack for 1275 health from empower allies - Whatever you can get from shout but especially from FGJ. Without healing power or shout used the traitline already potentially offer you 311.4 hp/s. Keep in mind that tactic have already been nerfed in a relatively recent past due to the fact that it granted "to much survivability" to the warrior with shouts in sPvP (and I'm not even talking about the bladesworn nerfs). At the moment if you add defense and signet of healing the warrior can already generate 1.1k hp/s self-sustain without healing power or using shouts in sPvP. That's why I'm pointing out a "fear" for "to much" self sustain. You can also see how much people in sPvP hate facing characters with "high" self-sustain through the current hate spellbreaker receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said: I think you don't get it. Soldier's focus grant 3 stack of might to 5 allies from marching order. Soldier's confort add a 970-1074 heal for 5 allies. Empower allies will grant 5 might to 5 allies every 10s. vigorous shout will add 1000 health per shout. The key stone for sustain is Mending might 51 per might stack (going with sPvP values). Every 10s you potentially got: - 1074 health from soldier's confort - 15 might stack for 765 health from marching order - 25 might stack for 1275 health from empower allies - Whatever you can get from shout but especially from FGJ. Without healing power or shout used the traitline already potentially offer you 311.4 hp/s. Keep in mind that tactic have already been nerfed in a relatively recent past due to the fact that it granted "to much survivability" to the warrior with shouts in sPvP (and I'm not even talking about the bladesworn nerfs). At the moment if you add defense and signet of healing the warrior can already generate 1.1k hp/s self-sustain without healing power or using shouts in sPvP. That's why I'm pointing out a "fear" for "to much" self sustain. You can also see how much people in sPvP hate facing characters with "high" self-sustain through the current hate spellbreaker receive. I don't know why you are mentioning SPVP when Soldier's Comfort isn't run in PVP and also can easily be split for PVP since it doesn't have a PVP split currently. A warrior running Vigorous Shouts inherently is a support. Why should a support not have good sustain? Healing Signet also hasn't been relevant in quite a while. The passive heal is still semi-relevant but the resistance condition no longer ignores condition damage so mending is the defacto standard. "If you add defense" is needless fearmongering. If you run Tactics and defense you give up either an elite spec, discipline, or strength (which has MMR). Edited January 6, 2023 by Infusion.7149 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jzaku.9765 Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I ultimate agree with where OP is coming from, since Warrior is badly lacking in defensive team support. I think the majority of where a "Heal Warrior" should be coming from needs to be packaged into an Elite spec though - so whatever Tactics is offering, it needs to act as a supplement to a greater package and not work purely by itself out of the box. That said, the ICD on Soldier's Focus right now is completely garbage and certainly could be significantly reduced again (Remember how it launched with a 15s ICD?) Also, for the concerns about Berserker being disproportionately able to cash on "On Burst" effects - Do remember that Berserker needs to crit cap to achieve their infamous burst skill usage rate. PVE Healers nowadays need to provide boons and thus need Concentration + Healing Power in their stat loadout, and there's no usable Precision/Healing Power/Concentration stat combo available. Effectively this means that the base healing on Soldier's Comfort just needs to be bad with excellent Healing Power scaling to prevent DPS builds from being able to abuse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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