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Polishing Bladesworn


Zizekent.2398
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-Gunsaber 5 should give baseline swiftness, fury is nice but swiftness also makes sense.

-Gunsaber 2 could be a leap, it's very dissapointing for competitive right now.

-Being able to move and jump while in DT.

-CDR on Gunsaber 5 and DT5.

-Make pistol a mainhand weapon, rework it.

-Give baseline boons on burst skills like core does, DT1 (might), 2 (swiftness) and 3 (fury).

-Give back the stab on DT.

-CDR on DT4.

-Stab on Flow Stabilizer (come on, it's literally in the name).

-Let us cancel gunsaber animations with our stow keybind instead of ESC, we've asked for it a lot, and CMC knows it, even Tpot asked him about that on stream, months ago.

-Not really needed but just a wish: make DT5 an evade frame dash, it's just a 300 range selfroot teleport, come on ANet, i know you guys wanted to put teleports for all classes, but wow.

Edited by Zizekent.2398
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2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

-Gunsaber 5 should give baseline swiftness, fury is nice but swiftness also makes sense.

Needs more range on it more than a different boon. It can give Swiftness from the traitline already.

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

-Gunsaber 2 could be a leap, it's very dissapointing for competitive right now.

It has an evade UW. Give the land version the same evade.

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

-Being able to move and jump while in DT.

They're experimenting with slower movement speeds in self rooted skills/stances so I expect that we will see this happen.

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

-CDR on Gunsaber 5 and DT5.

More so on DT5 than G5

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

-Make pistol a mainhand weapon, rework it.

They don't even need to rework it that much, just increase the ranges on the two skills and give it a fast AA with the explosion tag.

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

-Give baseline boons on burst skills like core does, DT1 (might), 2 (swiftness) and 3 (fury).

They implemented that on consuming flow (prot and might). Do you suggest to move away from that and grant it instead on using Dragon Slash?

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

-Give back the stab on DT.

On DSD or FS?

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

-CDR on DT4.

I'd say more damage, but the CDs are because of TR.

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

-Stab on Flow Stabilizer (come on, it's literally in the name).

So, do we need Stab on both DSD and FS?

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

-Let us cancel gunsaber animations with our stow keybind instead of ESC, we've asked for it a lot, and CMC knows it, even Tpot asked him about that on stream, months ago.

This is a kit issue. If they fix this then it needs to be done on the kit end, which would affect Engineer, and all the transformations/Shrouds.

2 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

-Not really needed but just a wish: make DT5 an evade frame dash, it's just a 300 range selfroot teleport, come on ANet, i know you guys wanted to put teleports for all classes, but wow.

I'd rather see Triggerguard become a 2s block and DT5 get 600 range on it.

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4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Needs more range on it more than a different boon. It can give Swiftness from the traitline already.

I mean, yes, it would just give more swiftness and maybe just change that trait, it's pretty meh and has ICD for some reason.

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

They implemented that on consuming flow (prot and might). Do you suggest to move away from that and grant it instead on using Dragon Slash?.

No, more like giving baseline utility to all 3 Dragon Slash's after using the skill, like might after using DS1, swiftness after using DS2, fury after using DS3, its effects would increase with the consumed bullets, and if those effects are on traitlines already, still fine, because traits are ""optional"", baseline things not, it just makes the spec better and it's needed, Bladesworn just needs to be better, with TR's nerf, went from OP to really lacking on competitive scenarios with 1 simple change.

Edited by Zizekent.2398
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4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Needs at least a 2.5 coefficient, if not a 3.0 coefficient.

I think most things on Warrior need a bump coefficient wise. I mean either give us comparable boon "reliability" (generation and uptime) to other classes or start bumping up our base damage coefficients.

I really don't think things are that hard to figure out when it comes to Warrior...

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44 minutes ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

I think most things on Warrior need a bump coefficient wise. I mean either give us comparable boon "reliability" (generation and uptime) to other classes or start bumping up our base damage coefficients.

I really don't think things are that hard to figure out when it comes to Warrior...

It gets to their 'Ticket' analogy. How telegraphed is a skill? That should garner more damage. Does it require CC to use effectively? Might need higher damage. Does it evade for you? Might need to do really low damage (after all evades are their own reward right? Right?).

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12 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It gets to their 'Ticket' analogy. How telegraphed is a skill? That should garner more damage. Does it require CC to use effectively? Might need higher damage. Does it evade for you? Might need to do really low damage (after all evades are their own reward right? Right?).

The problem I see with this is that dragon trigger gets tools to avoid many of these downsides.

Baseline charge time for dragon trigger is already reduced to 2,5 seconds, down from the 5 seconds of the initial concept.
Tactical reload allows you to cut that charge time in half once again, making it 1,25 seconds for full charge.
Then there is a trait which makes dragon trigger ignore some defensive mechanics, making it unblockable and unblindable.

I would personally be a bit nervous about making that skill 3,0 power coefficient if I were anet.

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14 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

The problem I see with this is that dragon trigger gets tools to avoid many of these downsides.

Baseline charge time for dragon trigger is already reduced to 2,5 seconds, down from the 5 seconds of the initial concept.
Tactical reload allows you to cut that charge time in half once again, making it 1,25 seconds for full charge.
Then there is a trait which makes dragon trigger ignore some defensive mechanics, making it unblockable and unblindable.

I would personally be a bit nervous about making that skill 3,0 power coefficient if I were anet.

But those all all just upsides you are looking at. The whole thing comes with downsides as well.

Flow needs to be build up in the first place. Other profession and elite specialization mechanics can be used from the get-go.

The fact that it needs to get charged in the first place is a negative thing.

The charging being a self-root is yet another downside.

As far as I know, the ranged slash still: can be jumped over, can be side-stepped, gets stopped by the slightest of elevations.

And the melee versions have to get into the swamp of AoE vomit and condition vomit that plagues melee combat.

I think that the downsides outweigh the upsides (and half of the upsides are just making one downside less bad).

Edited by Fueki.4753
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22 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

The problem I see with this is that dragon trigger gets tools to avoid many of these downsides.

Baseline charge time for dragon trigger is already reduced to 2,5 seconds, down from the 5 seconds of the initial concept.
Tactical reload allows you to cut that charge time in half once again, making it 1,25 seconds for full charge.
Then there is a trait which makes dragon trigger ignore some defensive mechanics, making it unblockable and unblindable.

I would personally be a bit nervous about making that skill 3,0 power coefficient if I were anet.

thats also why its such a risky design, it was a bold statement, making warrior shortcomings a class feature. but in order to make it work they have to make the rewards compelling to warrant the risk. otherwise its just a compilation of shortcomings. and this clearly does not translate well to competitive modes.

 

also why are we all discussing how "potentially" broken bladesworn "could be" when there are evidently broken things out there that are still at large. 🤔 i mean those're still going about unaddressed,  so why not make bladesworn op. 🤣

Edited by eXruina.4956
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21 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

The problem I see with this is that dragon trigger gets tools to avoid many of these downsides.

That just shows how poorly designed it is. You are forced into skills to make it barely function as opposed to just making the mechanic function on its own.

21 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Baseline charge time for dragon trigger is already reduced to 2,5 seconds, down from the 5 seconds of the initial concept.
Tactical reload allows you to cut that charge time in half once again, making it 1,25 seconds for full charge.
Then there is a trait which makes dragon trigger ignore some defensive mechanics, making it unblockable and unblindable.

I would personally be a bit nervous about making that skill 3,0 power coefficient if I were anet.

I wouldn't, it would still be a self root with a double resource charge, if anything deserved a 3.0 coefficient, it would be that.

UD is one of the tools required to make a bad mechanic work, but if the lower level charges were worth using them the unblockable unblindable trait wouldn't be needed with DT all on the Function Bar. You'd pop the blind/aegis with one DS then hit with another one.

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5 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

The problem I see with this is that dragon trigger gets tools to avoid many of these downsides.

Baseline charge time for dragon trigger is already reduced to 2,5 seconds, down from the 5 seconds of the initial concept.
Tactical reload allows you to cut that charge time in half once again, making it 1,25 seconds for full charge.
Then there is a trait which makes dragon trigger ignore some defensive mechanics, making it unblockable and unblindable.

I would personally be a bit nervous about making that skill 3,0 power coefficient if I were anet.

Have you even tried it when it was 5s charge time?

2.5s is still longer windup than most core bursts including the one on sword (Flurry) which is 2.0 coefficient. Balancing around an optional trait is kind of baffling to me. It could be doing less damage if blocked or something, I don't know. To have a full charge do less than a core burst in melee range after charging 2.5s in place is unacceptable however.

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4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Have you even tried it when it was 5s charge time?

2.5s is still longer windup than most core bursts including the one on sword (Flurry) which is 2.0 coefficient. Balancing around an optional trait is kind of baffling to me. It could be doing less damage if blocked or something, I don't know. To have a full charge do less than a core burst in melee range after charging 2.5s in place is unacceptable however.

^ All of this ^

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Lots of things could be said, but here are a few of the biggest needs [PvP/WvW]:

 

1) BS Needs Stability.

Easily the most important and glaring need.  I used to think that adding it to Triggerguard would be ideal, but the more I play with it, the more I think they just need to give it back to Dragonscale Defense.  BS depends on DT too much to make it such a low-probability ability (between needing high charges to do damage and needing to stand still to do it).  Making it easier to get a full charge helps both the offense (obviously) as well as BS's ability to maximize the use of burst-related traits.  It really struggles to max out AH or Berserker's Power or get similar value for Cleansing Ire when compared to other Warrior specs that are able to burst more frequently and have less telegraph to the bursts.

If 3s stab every DT is too much, shorten the duration to 2 or 2.5s.  That way it won't be enough to cover a full charge + cast and will force people to decide whether to go for a protected, but weaker, burst, or a stronger but CC-able burst.

 

2) DT needs to not be jump-able; DS-reach needs to work better on uneven terrain/change of elevation

I'm lumping these together because they seem to be the same issue: the hitbox for dragon slash attacks isn't "tall" enough.  Make the hitbox just a little bit taller so you can't jump over it.  This would also hopefully help with DS-Reach, as the projectile often jumps over the target when the projectile is trying to climb terrain.

Hitbox should be just a little larger, tho... don't want it hitting through ceilings or floors or other shenanigans like that.

 

3.) Blooming Fire Needs...Something

The skill is a complete nothingburger currently.  It either needs to get the evade frame that it has underwater, or the damage should be increased by 25% and the cast time reduced to 1/2s (especially since the damage is spread out over an additional 1/4s).  Could also increase the range to 180 at least.

 

4.) When DT is interrupted, it should go on 4s CD.

Currently, it goes on an 8s CD, regardless of whether you use a DS skill or cancel/it gets interrupted.  This is an unnecessary penalty for an already clunky and high-risk skill

 

5.) Get rid of the flow cost to enter DT.

Another unnecessary penalty on a clunky mechanic which already requires the generation of 2(!) resources (flow and then charges).

 

6.) Dragon Slash attacks should be unblockable/unblindable at baseline. 
Otherwise Unyielding Dragon will always, always be the best pick.  And being unblockable/unblindable is pretty much necessary for such a telegraphed and rooted skill to have a chance in competitive modes.  

 

Honorable Mention:

Breakstep: increase range to 600 and let it cure immobilize.

Dragon's Roar: increase total damage by 50%

Gunstinger: Give it a second ammo charge; consider increasing the range to 450

Flow stabilizer: grants stab AND fury

Dragonspike Mine: Reduce CD to 25s.  Let it remove immobile.

Bulletproof barrier: rework completely into some other defensive CD.  Something like Engineer's Defense Field could be great.

 

Traits:

Unseen Sword: Triple the damage in competitive modes---currently crits for ~500 on Berserker gear lol

 

Lush Forest: revert it to triggering on last ammo charge, change it to grant 1s alacrity (self only) for each ammo skill used, or rework it completely to something that is healthier for the game.

 

Fierce as Fire: too hard to gain/maintain high stacks unless running pistol; a lot of work for a +10% mod.  Other professions get more for a lot less work (Vindicator's +15% on dodge; Guardian's +10% when they have resolution, etc.). 
At a minimum, FaF stacks should refresh when a new one is generated.  Alternatively, increase the damage to +2% per stack or make it +1% damage per stack and gain 1 stack of might (6s) for each stack gained.

 

Daring Dragon:

Re-work so that it no longer automatically enters DT.  Rather, DT charges twice as fast; still max of 5 charges.  Gain 2s quickness after using a DS skill.

 

 

Edited by CalmTheStorm.2364
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Further thoughts:

 

Dargonspike Mine would be S tier if it were:

Stunbreak

3/4s evade

Removes immobile

Recharges DT

Mine blinds foes (instead of cripple; IDC if they nerf the damage)

CD 25-30s

 

This would make it akin to Rangers Lightning Reflexes both in terms of function and value.

 

Unseen Sword:

Increase power coeff to 1.0 in competitive (currently is 0.333)

Grant 1/2s quickness for each foe struck

 

 

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On 1/5/2023 at 7:41 AM, captrowdy.9561 said:

If dt 2 and 3 where amiable like gs 3 I think that would help with it feeling lesss clunky. 

This is the one I want to see. Being able to DT2 for mobility instead of straight at someone would be fun. DT3 does not hit anything and aiming could help with that. 
I feel it would make DT function more dynamically. 

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On 1/5/2023 at 7:36 AM, Fueki.4753 said:

Junksworn also needs to get in-combat weapon swap and the pistol needs to be ranged.

The not-a-sabre is not worth the loss of in-combat weapon swap.

Agree 100%. Resolving these two points alone would almost make the spec viable. Unfortunately ANet has straight up ignored us on these two issues, repeatedly, despite overwhelming feedback, since the beta.

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1 hour ago, Thuggernaut.1250 said:

Agree 100%. Resolving these two points alone would almost make the spec viable. Unfortunately ANet has straight up ignored us on these two issues, repeatedly, despite overwhelming feedback, since the beta.

Sadly, being ignored is not exclusive to Junksworn.

That Junksworn exists on Warrior in the first place, instead of EoD finally giving us a ranged support specialization, shows that we have been largely ignored for years.

 

Edited by Fueki.4753
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On 1/7/2023 at 3:18 PM, oscuro.9720 said:

This is the one I want to see. Being able to DT2 for mobility instead of straight at someone would be fun. DT3 does not hit anything and aiming could help with that. 
I feel it would make DT function more dynamically. 

One of the things that I've suggested previously would be for BS to maintain a small amount of flow (e.g., 25) out of combat, akin to rev's energy.  That way, you could use DS2 for mobility out of combat.

 

The biggest issue with DS3 is the projectile tracking over changes in elevation. If the enemy is on top of a crate or a stair case, good luck. It's only reasonably useful on flat terrain. I think making the projectile taller would help reduce its misses when it hops over obstacles.

Edited by CalmTheStorm.2364
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3 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

One of the things that I've suggested previously would be for BS to maintain a small amount of flow (e.g., 25) out of combat, akin to rev's energy.  That way, you could use DS2 for mobility out of combat.

 

The biggest issue with DS3 is the projectile tracking over changes in elevation. If the energy is on top of a crate or a stair case, good luck. It's only reasonably useful on flat terrain. I think making the projectile taller would help reduce its misses when it hops over obstacles.

Idk, to me it seems like it lands as reliably as guardian scepter auto attacks if they’re past 450 range. 
edit; granted I’ve not played blade much recently, so this is just going off how it’s felt. With ground target, you’d be able to better target the center of groups, etc. with 2 and 3, bringing more value imo. 
Then again what do I know I’m just here for Warrior meme.

Edited by oscuro.9720
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