I support food removal from festive lootbags

[Wolfb.7025]

Just throwing my comment in here. I know more than 90% of the people are super upset about the food removal, so for a change I wanted to voice my own perception about this to let Anet know that not everyone is super angry about it.

Despite Research Notes being super controversial given how tedious it was in their initial release. It actually gave value to all of the worthless trash crafted items and consumables in the TP and that was pretty much the reason why Research Notes were introduced to begin with. People just got upset that they have to pay 3s instead of 50c for a magic find food but for me it's better when the echonomy and value of items has.. well, some value, instead of being items that you can pretty much throw away or sell at npc.

[Khisanth.2948]

17 minutes ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

People just got upset that they have to pay 3s instead of 50c for a magic find food but for me it's better when the echonomy and value of items has.. well, some value, instead of being items that you can pretty much throw away or sell at npc.

Well that would be their own fault for overpaying since MF food is still under 2s ...

Technically a L2P issue since that is no different from a boss being patched and people continue to use the old strategy.

[Farohna.6247]

Can't say that I'm upset about it.  Mostly I just sold it, but it was a nice extra bit of silver or gold.  If they had replaced them with something festival exclusive, unrelated to research notes, it might have helped the generally poor reception.  I do miss the tins of fruitcake...now I have to go craft them.  No biggie but they were nice to have for free. 

Lunar festival is a good example of what should be done with all the festivals....food that is unique, non craftable, and exclusive to it.  No worries about research notes, just food buffs.  

[Veprovina.4876]

1 hour ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

but for me it's better when the echonomy and value of items has.. well, some value, instead of being items that you can pretty much throw away or sell at npc.

Now if they cold just make millions of 2c items on TP have value, that would be great!

[DeanBB.4268]

I'll stick with the argument of why didn't they just keep the food and not have it be able to convert to research notes. 

[Randulf.7614]

5 minutes ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

I'll stick with the argument of why didn't they just keep the food and not have it be able to convert to research notes. 

Exactly. There was an all round win and it was the simplest of all. To paraphrase a quote from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade - “They chose…poorly”

 

[eutha six.5647]

just made me not bother with those open world prize boxes- no one did really-used my time farming butter instead and I hate farming butter--

[Khisanth.2948]

25 minutes ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

I'll stick with the argument of why didn't they just keep the food and not have it be able to convert to research notes. 

The simplest answer to that "why" is "the reason for the change wasn't due to research notes" but people prefer to stick to the research notes without any attempts at even thinking about anything else.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

People just got upset that they have to pay 3s instead of 50c for a magic find food but for me it's better when the echonomy and value of items has.. well, some value, instead of being items that you can pretty much throw away or sell at npc.

Well, i wonder how good the "economy" of those festival foods got, seeing as the cost of obtaining them now (crafting) is higher than their TP value, and that it's unlikely to change, like, ever. I don't know about you, but i would not call this situation "good" at all.

[Ashen.2907]

They removed rewards from festivals.

They did not replace them.

They purposefully lessened festivals.

Festivals.

Celebrations.

Had they replaced the removed festival rewards with something of equal or greater value/utility then I could buy into the change. But they didnt.

They took existing content and made it smaller overall. What's next, reducing the size of existing maps? Of course it is their game and they can do as they like, but actively seeking to lessen the product, in any industry, is likely to upset users.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Well, RIP the ice cream which was a cheap way to get some extra crit/life steal. Some people were using them; I don't care about Research Notes. And Wintersday Gifts were kinda worth crap; it did cause me to not play the festival content, as much while it was usually my most played festival. Think I only did dailies like twice.

That being said, I did make like 700 gold selling hoarded Wednesday food from before, so it's a net gain for me personally. I've almost always found a way to profit off most game changes.  But other people will have their own opinions.

Edited January 5, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Ashen.2907]

In the same vein as the OP's, out of a preference to not start yet another thread on the topic, inclination to support removing things from the game's festivals as long as doing so doesn' negatively impact him personally:

I don't care about Jumping Puzzles so I support removing them from in game festivals.

I am not fond of the mechanics of the various festival PvP events so its OK to remove them too.

Hmm, colorblind here so the bell event needs to go.

Now that I think of it, the entire Labyrinthine Cliffs is OK for deletion as well.

And don't forget SAB. I prefer my 8 bit platformer gaming to be in an actual 8bit platforming game....so lets load SAB on the chopping block as well.

 

I mean if removing something doesnt adversely affect me personally its totally fine to cut it, right?

Edited January 5, 2023 by Ashen.2907

[Zebulous.2934]

As someone said in another thread: "losing the utility items is the worst part."  I don't think an artificer can craft tuning icicles, peppermint oil, tin of fruitcake, sharpening skulls, ect.  
 

[Khisanth.2948]

7 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Well, RIP the ice cream which was a cheap way to get some extra crit/life steal.

Slice of Candied Dragon Roll

[Shuzuru.3651]

7 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

In the same vein as the OP's, out of a preference to not start yet another thread on the topic, inclination to support removing things from the game's festivals as long as doing so doesn' negatively impact him personally:

I don't care about Jumping Puzzles so I support removing them from in game festivals.

I am not fond of the mechanics of the various festival PvP events so its OK to remove them too.

Hmm, colorblind here so the bell event needs to go.

Now that I think of it, the entire Labyrinthine Cliffs is OK for deletion as well.

And don't forget SAB. I prefer my 8 bit platformer gaming to be in an actual 8bit platforming game....so lets load SAB on the chopping block as well.

 

I mean if removing something doesnt adversely affect me personally its totally fine to cut it, right?

And you missed completely the point of the OP, his point was that it may be a negative from some player but it's a positive for the health of the food/utility economy. It's never about him personally. 

 

Your suggestions instead would only grant negative without any positive aspect, so, a bad decision overall. 

[Ashen.2907]

10 hours ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:

It's never about him personally. 

He can only speak for himself. Any claim about supposed health of the economy is just subjective fluff so, yes, it is about him personally.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

On 1/5/2023 at 10:51 AM, Khisanth.2948 said:

The simplest answer to that "why" is "the reason for the change wasn't due to research notes" but people prefer to stick to the research notes without any attempts at even thinking about anything else.

So why was the food removed?

[Sobx.1758]

19 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

In the same vein as the OP's, out of a preference to not start yet another thread on the topic, inclination to support removing things from the game's festivals as long as doing so doesn' negatively impact him personally:

I don't care about Jumping Puzzles so I support removing them from in game festivals.

I am not fond of the mechanics of the various festival PvP events so its OK to remove them too.

Hmm, colorblind here so the bell event needs to go.

Now that I think of it, the entire Labyrinthine Cliffs is OK for deletion as well.

And don't forget SAB. I prefer my 8 bit platformer gaming to be in an actual 8bit platforming game....so lets load SAB on the chopping block as well.

 

I mean if removing something doesnt adversely affect me personally its totally fine to cut it, right?

This is nowhere near the same, the food or buffs related to it wasn't removed from the game, not even close.

[Khisanth.2948]

31 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

So why was the food removed?

Maybe ANet thought they were too cheap. Not due to being a specific price but relative to the base line versions. Prior to the drop change these foods were valued less despite providing more. Same for the utilities except the oil because apparently nobody cares about concentration. Only ANet can provide a definitive answer.

On the 'not related to research notes' side, ANet shown that they have no problem with making things simply not give notes through several hotfixes. There was even an extra stupid case where an item simply gave 0 note. There were also all the bread related recipes that got hit as collateral damage to removing Loaf of Bread. They have clearly demonstrated their willingness to make craftable things unusable for notes including going beyond what is necessary. What makes the festival items so special that they get exempt and require a different change?

The only reason I have seen anyone make to support notes as the cause is the price but they were only one of a bunch of similarly cheap options. The other items(foods and potions, gear is not comparable prior to the October patch) in the similar price(at the time) range was untouched. That leads back to the "what makes these so special?" problem. There are now items that are even cheaper and those haven't been changed either.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

17 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Maybe ANet thought they were too cheap. Not due to being a specific price but relative to the base line versions. Prior to the drop change these foods were valued less despite providing more. Same for the utilities except the oil because apparently nobody cares about concentration. Only ANet can provide a definitive answer.

On the 'not related to research notes' side, ANet shown that they have no problem with making things simply not give notes through several hotfixes. There was even an extra stupid case where an item simply gave 0 note. There were also all the bread related recipes that got hit as collateral damage to removing Loaf of Bread. They have clearly demonstrated their willingness to make craftable things unusable for notes including going beyond what is necessary. What makes the festival items so special that they get exempt and require a different change?

The only reason I have seen anyone make to support notes as the cause is the price but they were only one of a bunch of similarly cheap options. The other items(foods and potions, gear is not comparable prior to the October patch) in the similar price(at the time) range was untouched. That leads back to the "what makes these so special?" problem. There are now items that are even cheaper and those haven't been changed either.

So no one really knows?  I was under the impression that Anet wanted Research Notes to only work on crafted items.  Since the festival food was the same item as the crafted food, it meant that players could farm the boxes and skip crafting items for Research Notes.  Instead of decoupling the items and create a crafted and awarded version of these foods, they simply removed the awarded ones from the boxes, and called it a day.

What you suggest also sounds reasonable, but not as coincidental as the above, given the timeframe when these changes were made,

 

[Astralporing.1957]

14 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Maybe ANet thought they were too cheap. Not due to being a specific price but relative to the base line versions. Prior to the drop change these foods were valued less despite providing more. Same for the utilities except the oil because apparently nobody cares about concentration.

They only "provided more" when karma buffs are concerned. In all other aspects all those foods and utilities (except one) were inferior to the "baseline" versions (and thus used only because they were cheap). And now they are not only inferior, but also cost more.

14 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

What makes the festival items so special that they get exempt and require a different change?

A good question, one whis is being asked by a lot of people. Despite this, no answer has been given to it by Anet however.

14 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

The only reason I have seen anyone make to support notes as the cause is the price but they were only one of a bunch of similarly cheap options.

No, the primary reason is that this change happened at the very same time anet made a bunch of other adjustments to the research note acquisition. Up to this point apparently Anet has been fine with the price of those foods, it's only when research notes entered the picture that it suddenly became a problem. Also, during the wave of food removal from bags, only crafted food/utilities (and craftable tonics) were removed. The uncraftable ones (which do not give RNs) were left untouched.

It's just way too much correlation for it to be coincidental.

[Khisanth.2948]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

They only "provided more" when karma buffs are concerned. In all other aspects all those foods and utilities (except one) were inferior to the "baseline" versions (and thus used only because they were cheap). And now they are not only inferior, but also cost more.

A good question, one whis is being asked by a lot of people. Despite this, no answer has been given to it by Anet however.

No, the primary reason is that this change happened at the very same time anet made a bunch of other adjustments to the research note acquisition. Up to this point apparently Anet has been fine with the price of those foods, it's only when research notes entered the picture that it suddenly became a problem. Also, during the wave of food removal from bags, only crafted food/utilities (and craftable tonics) were removed. The uncraftable ones (which do not give RNs) were left untouched.

It's just way too much correlation for it to be coincidental.

Uh ... thanks for a whole lot of nothing?

[Moradorin.6217]

On 1/5/2023 at 9:06 AM, Farohna.6247 said:

Can't say that I'm upset about it.  Mostly I just sold it, but it was a nice extra bit of silver or gold.  If they had replaced them with something festival exclusive, unrelated to research notes, it might have helped the generally poor reception.  I do miss the tins of fruitcake...now I have to go craft them.  No biggie but they were nice to have for free. 

Lunar festival is a good example of what should be done with all the festivals....food that is unique, non craftable, and exclusive to it.  No worries about research notes, just food buffs.  

tbh this was how I felt overall about the food removals. its not that I cant get food other ways or that the price change matters to me personally. It just seemed like a poorly planned item sink that impacted allot of popular boxes.

I think they almost got it right, but perhaps overlooked a few key things that, for myself, would have motivated me to want to open current Wintersday/Halloween boxes allot more and given them a better bump on the TP in price over time during the year. 

One simple thing they have overlooked since adding the new weapon skins is very simple. They all lack any AP collection. Not even just a list with 1 token AP or better yet, some silly account bound thing we can all look forward to once we get all 16 weapon skins unlocked. They could have given it a BL weapon ticket or three or just a skin or a few snowdiamond/corn cobs for completion of the weapon skin collection for the sets they added to each box in the rng boxes. That would improve demand allot without adding anything else to the box and adding a collection list with a token AP couldnt take a considerable amount of dev time per festival. I honestly have no way to know that so ignore me on that if you wish. However, I still think adding a collection to the skin sets they added woulda been wise.

[Farohna.6247]

4 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

tbh this was how I felt overall about the food removals. its not that I cant get food other ways or that the price change matters to me personally. It just seemed like a poorly planned item sink that impacted allot of popular boxes.

I think they almost got it right, but perhaps overlooked a few key things that, for myself, would have motivated me to want to open current Wintersday/Halloween boxes allot more and given them a better bump on the TP in price over time during the year. 

One simple thing they have overlooked since adding the new weapon skins is very simple. They all lack any AP collection. Not even just a list with 1 token AP or better yet, some silly account bound thing we can all look forward to once we get all 16 weapon skins unlocked. They could have given it a BL weapon ticket or three or just a skin or a few snowdiamond/corn cobs for completion of the weapon skin collection for the sets they added to each box in the rng boxes. That would improve demand allot without adding anything else to the box and adding a collection list with a token AP couldnt take a considerable amount of dev time per festival. I honestly have no way to know that so ignore me on that if you wish. However, I still think adding a collection to the skin sets they added woulda been wise.

Adding a collection would be a great idea.  It would give some players more reason to work on it, help with keeping prices up, etc.  Also, I just like collections lol.

[Moradorin.6217]

10 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

Adding a collection would be a great idea.  It would give some players more reason to work on it, help with keeping prices up, etc.  Also, I just like collections lol.

Right! exactly! I was kinda dissapointed when I tried to unlock some of the new skins and not see any change listed from the Hero panel and then I just kinda felt like "Meh I have TONS of skins so more unlocks I may never use dont motivate me much" That said, I do like the skins and did get a few, however, if it had some kind of AP collection list to complete or better yet a reward for completion I would have gotten all 16 skins from each set as would many others. I think this kind of thing is mostly what they keep overlooking.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Moradorin.6217