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ANet *PLEASE* make Heal Specter be viable (PvE)


Wesuteru.9132

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Specter feels like a class that was intended to be played as a support. The weapon (scepter) has a really cool dual function of working as a heal stick and as a bonk stick, being able to give barrier or deal damage. Shroud is able to give a large amount of barrier after leaving it (and a considerable amount on 3). But that's sadly where it ends.

 

Most supports currently give a lot of buffs, like full 25 might, alacrity, protection, regen and then some. On top of giving heals. 

Specter really does not give out a lot of buffs at all. It can do 100% alacrity upkeep, which is pretty much the baseline at this point, but no other buffs. The heals (barrier) is single-target, which is maybe decent, and going for it means you deal no damage at all. Competing with a tempest who continuously deals damage while healing and buffing, or a firebrand, or a mechanist who does it even more so.

 

It's just really unfortunate! Specter feels really fun, but sadly you can't play the class as it was "designed to".

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Yes, It is indeed really really bad in many ways and the most unfun build I ever experienced. Please fix. Anet said they'd change it if single-target healing wasn't successful and it's not, plus they gave single-target healing to Druid anyways on top of their vast amount of AoE support, so it's time to do the opposite to Specter and toss AoE support onto us, and please not with shadowstep/movement spam. No one plays Heal Specter or wants it in their groups at the moment~ you'll only ever see Condi-DPS or Alacrity-Condi-DPS Specters scurrying about.

Cmon don't you wanna sell more equipment templates to Thief players? More builds per class = more profits for you.

Edited by Doggie.3184
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I play heal specter in strikes and raids from time to time, when it comes to CC it's unmatched by other specs. The barrier/healing output is decent. Scepter design with ally targeting is awful, I don't even bother bringing it. I find it to be a really enjoyable spec to play, as the initiative system allows me to prioritise CC, healing or evasion depending on the situation, there are 3 ways to heal (wells, leave shroud, shadowstep), the amount of mobility that this build gives you is insane - unlike some other specs it takes skill to execute correctly and the boons provided are... passable in most groups (18-22 stacks of might, stability, fury, swiftness and of course alacrity).

It suffers from a lack of group-wide condi cleanse (though that can be mostly glossed over thanks to high healing output), single-target healing is awful and might output is unstable, but can usually be enough if you have scourges, braindead bots with rifles or a quickness provider which gives 10 stacks or so.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Personally I started playing Spectre, it's a horror and a real headache, there is such anti-synergy between spells and the specialization build (passives), between DPS and HEAL mainly, that it It's impossible to do anything related to why this specialization exists. If you want DPS in alteration, you must deny almost all the spells of the specialization itself (wells), and be almost full venom, which makes the majority of spells (including the scepter) useless. (The barriers, the Heal as you said are integrated into the basic spells, but are useless in this case), then if you specialize in healing, there too it is useless since have not healed well enough, have is on a specialization which has the kitten between two chairs, and which sometimes one or the other will do 10 times less, although other specialization in their field. So there's nothing to understand and it's a real headache, especially since I don't see the point of being full DPS on a specialization made to play support originally, otherwise you might as well not take specialization...
I hope for a real (total) overhaul of the specialization, and that they focus it at least on the support side, they just have to create a system where the "damages" of alterations are useful to automatically convert into heal ? With 3 "paths": Pure Heal, Dps Barrière, Dps Heal. Because having a spell where you dps, but where you also heal and it's useless, I don't see the point, the passives really have to modify, alter the sorts according to the trait. In addition, dagger 5, which requires us to be cac, does not particularly fit... since we play almost all the time at distance, there is a big anti-synergy, even with the pistol, to get there j ' had to be forced to play Sceptre/Dagger and double-daggers (or sword daggers), because it doesn't fit if I didn't have cac kinds, especially since the pits bring us back there all the time, whereas 'have is remote all the time.

 

In addition, the Shadow Shroud does not defend us enough, in PvP for example in 2-3 shots and I get Oneshoot losing my liceul... please Anet fix this.

By the way, the spell https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Tears is literally useless, an overhaul of statistics and abilities would also be good, same for the ultimate spell.

In addition, the anchoring in "full DPS CONDi" as at present, as well as not making the original support side of the specialization useful, and having a big anti-synergy, therefore for its survival, and well the anchoring is useless, and does not bring much, at this train there if you want to transform it not full DPS, as well remove the shroud by a shield... which would completely destroy the specialization. So I'm hoping for change because it's annoying, even the other specializations have a lot of problems too, have false balances forever... it's painful...
 

 

Edited by rylien.3824
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I don't think Specter was designed to be a group heal bot. It's a group fixer-upper with Barrier padding to get through pushes and burns. It also weaponizes other players while you're doing that. It's why most of its damage and support are both residual, because you're expected to turn someone into a weapon while you patch up parts of your composition that need help or get ahead of the group to infuse them for a push or phase. 

It could do some things better and Alacrity could be detached from Wells but I think it's mostly in a good spot. I don't play a lot of pve so I'm not arguing against the requests, that's just my take on the Elite. 

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Assuming specter was originally made for single target support (wells and shroud *cough* mixed things up) I will share what I have learned in comparing specter with other single target support from different games.

 

1. Single target support needs to provide enough incentive to be single target support viable when compared to multi target support or plain dps: this means that single target support needs to be powerful enough to double the target's dps or provide heals equivalent to the dps loss,

Spoiler

Ie: exhibit A(dps) does 100 damage single target support (STS) needs to either make exhibit A do 200 damage or have an extra 100 damage in health or 50 extra damage and 50 in healing (numbers are not to scale)

or else player is better of doing a different build/class/elite spec.

 

2. STS needs to have traits that increase their healing for healing one person: instead of being a multi heal/boon support

 

3. STS needs targeting to be better to switch between enemy/player1/player2: this would include something like hotkeys for target 1, target 2, enemy 1, enemy 2 and so forth to be able to switch easily in situations where there are more than 1 enemy/player.

 

Conclusion: Specter as a whole felt like a step towards making a single target support in a game mostly dominated by multi-heal/boon supports this is why specter feels lackluster after a nerf of its self-sustain. But if Anet does fix targeting and traits, it will be a viable support and a big improvement on the whole. And it may even make it the most viable support in Pve

Edited by Infinity.2876
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5 hours ago, Infinity.2876 said:

Assuming specter was originally made for single target support (wells and shroud *cough* mixed things up) I will share what I have learned in comparing specter with other single target support from different games.

 

1. Single target support needs to provide enough incentive to be single target support viable when compared to multi target support or plain dps: this means that single target support needs to be powerful enough to double the target's dps or provide heals equivalent to the dps loss,

  Reveal hidden contents

Ie: exhibit A(dps) does 100 damage single target support (STS) needs to either make exhibit A do 200 damage or have an extra 100 damage in health or 50 extra damage and 50 in healing (numbers are not to scale)

or else player is better of doing a different build/class/elite spec.

 

2. STS needs to have traits that increase their healing for healing one person: instead of being a multi heal/boon support

 

3. STS needs targeting to be better to switch between enemy/player1/player2: this would include something like hotkeys for target 1, target 2, enemy 1, enemy 2 and so forth to be able to switch easily in situations where there are more than 1 enemy/player.

 

Conclusion: Specter as a whole felt like a step towards making a single target support in a game mostly dominated by multi-heal/boon supports this is why specter feels lackluster after a nerf of its self-sustain. But if Anet does fix targeting and traits, it will be a viable support and a big improvement on the whole. And it may even make it the most viable support in Pve

This does not change the fact that, even as a Support DPS condition, he must be made for that in his liabilities, because there it is the souk, everything is mixed up, which means that we cannot never specialize so much, or even use the specialization optimally since all the passives and the specific spells contradict each other in their uses, which means that today we have come to have a specialization where everyone is full DPS, n don't use the pits because they are useless (except the green pit if necessary and again), where everything is full poison because the conditions are too weak without (and therefore the specialization is useless), where the double weapons have an anti-synergy between them. (Pistol-Scepter and Dagger).
(Mandatory in its design as a second choice of weapon, it must be at least cac, either double-daggers or sword-dagger). Personally, if I play this specialization, it's to use the elite well and the healing well as a minimum, because it's part of the specialization, and have a use with the Shadow Shround because at the moment it's useless except serve as a double life bar.

 

Currently, if I want to play with the wells I don't even know what to do, I tried to invent a build half Heal half Dps Condi, but it wouldn't work very well, because the passives are not made for this kind of choice and anyway I would not accept anywhere like this. And I don't really feel that since End of Dragons there have been a lot of "builds to create", I feel that people are just jaded by Arenanet's indifference to their specializations.. (I'll talk about it again but in the elementalist, the catalyst, there is also the Celestial Orb which is supposed to be at the heart of the gameplay and its mechanics and we almost never see it, even at rest it should float at side of us...). Please Anet, fix that, out of all the specializations, I prefer a Libra which is late in coming and which really fixes everything.

In addition, the real problem in Raids is that generally the specializations are just there to be "wells for damage, conditions, healing, etc..." so the gameplay is just made to create "pillars "To damage and resistance, I don't call that playing, in FFXIV at least we have moves, there are mechanics, we have done things, and we have our spells. Here we just have a vulgar flower pot that is just for "1" thing and ignores 90% of the specializations 😞
(Which is comic since the Renegade does 10 times better, the same as the chronomancer, but where the renegade does better (which is comic since originally it was a specialty of the chronomancer who ended up in the scrap, just like the fact that the chronomancer condition was badly thrown while thematically speaking it was the most logical, even in its resistance and tank capacities) and that next to the same side alteration the mesmer or other specializations like the necromancer make 10 times better... so what is this specialization of Specter ? 😄 

@ArenaNet Team.4819

Edited by rylien.3824
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Specter healing is... weird.  It's weird because all of the tools you'd think should be used for healing really aren't.  The scepter isn't good at it, siphon isn't good at it, the +healing power trait isn't good at it, etc.  I won't deny that Specter has design issues in this regard.  However, that all said, Heal Specter is definitely viable.  I've run it in many strikes and fractals:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAixrlhyUZpsQWLeqWnxXA-zRJYqROfZUdEkeK47BIgeL+dAAA-e

An optional variant replaces Shadow Refuge with Signet of Agility to cleanse conditions, or other utilities as needed.  The amount of healing and barrier this thing outputs is insane, and it can burst healing like a beast.  It provides permanent fury, swiftness, vigor, 15-20 stacks of might, alacrity, and some stability and resistance.  It has high weakness and cripple uptime, boon removal, excellent CC capabilities in both quality and defiance bar damage,  50% slow uptime on a single target, blind spam as needed, and it can come with all the useful utilities that thief has in its toolbox.  It's only weakness is that it has low cleanse capabilities.  This build shreds, and it is a shame that so many people think that specter isn't a viable healer.

IMO the odd quirks that scepter and the traits bring aren't really for healing, but as a bonus for the buffing and DPS builds  Damage and alac-specter come with big heal bursts essentially for free, as well as the option to rescue a desperate player with targeted barriers/heals.  I use scepter to hook onto ally players during travels or phase transitions, giving them 10-15 rot wallow with a bonus free barrier on top.  

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9 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Specter healing is... weird.  It's weird because all of the tools you'd think should be used for healing really aren't.  The scepter isn't good at it, siphon isn't good at it, the +healing power trait isn't good at it, etc.  I won't deny that Specter has design issues in this regard.  However, that all said, Heal Specter is definitely viable.  I've run it in many strikes and fractals:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAixrlhyUZpsQWLeqWnxXA-zRJYqROfZUdEkeK47BIgeL+dAAA-e

An optional variant replaces Shadow Refuge with Signet of Agility to cleanse conditions, or other utilities as needed.  The amount of healing and barrier this thing outputs is insane, and it can burst healing like a beast.  It provides permanent fury, swiftness, vigor, 15-20 stacks of might, alacrity, and some stability and resistance.  It has high weakness and cripple uptime, boon removal, excellent CC capabilities in both quality and defiance bar damage,  50% slow uptime on a single target, blind spam as needed, and it can come with all the useful utilities that thief has in its toolbox.  It's only weakness is that it has low cleanse capabilities.  This build shreds, and it is a shame that so many people think that specter isn't a viable healer.

IMO the odd quirks that scepter and the traits bring aren't really for healing, but as a bonus for the buffing and DPS builds  Damage and alac-specter come with big heal bursts essentially for free, as well as the option to rescue a desperate player with targeted barriers/heals.  I use scepter to hook onto ally players during travels or phase transitions, giving them 10-15 rot wallow with a bonus free barrier on top.  

I take Ritualist and Scavengers with Shadowstep and Silence in WvW but that's what my build's adjusted down to over time. I feel like Anet kind of set that up to be a solid baseline template for a range of stuff. It moves familiar enough around an area when you're working on a lane or circle for your group but it still uses mostly all the same muscle memory when you arm a Tether as if you were staying on any target. We're even group stealthing and all that like we always do so I think they wanted to us to have stuff popping off for our group from doing our usual thing.

I really should hit up raids or something and zero in more on healing since I can't just take out a support player to burn a group faster. I can't disagree with what people are saying, that threshold gets closer fast the more that goes wrong and you have to fill in more gaps. That's where other professions are going to have more reliable and sustainable answers.

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13 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Specter healing is... weird.  It's weird because all of the tools you'd think should be used for healing really aren't.  The scepter isn't good at it, siphon isn't good at it, the +healing power trait isn't good at it, etc.  I won't deny that Specter has design issues in this regard.  However, that all said, Heal Specter is definitely viable.  I've run it in many strikes and fractals:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAixrlhyUZpsQWLeqWnxXA-zRJYqROfZUdEkeK47BIgeL+dAAA-e

An optional variant replaces Shadow Refuge with Signet of Agility to cleanse conditions, or other utilities as needed.  The amount of healing and barrier this thing outputs is insane, and it can burst healing like a beast.  It provides permanent fury, swiftness, vigor, 15-20 stacks of might, alacrity, and some stability and resistance.  It has high weakness and cripple uptime, boon removal, excellent CC capabilities in both quality and defiance bar damage,  50% slow uptime on a single target, blind spam as needed, and it can come with all the useful utilities that thief has in its toolbox.  It's only weakness is that it has low cleanse capabilities.  This build shreds, and it is a shame that so many people think that specter isn't a viable healer.

IMO the odd quirks that scepter and the traits bring aren't really for healing, but as a bonus for the buffing and DPS builds  Damage and alac-specter come with big heal bursts essentially for free, as well as the option to rescue a desperate player with targeted barriers/heals.  I use scepter to hook onto ally players during travels or phase transitions, giving them 10-15 rot wallow with a bonus free barrier on top.  

I've been running this: 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaABwitrlhyOYssU2JeqWXxfA-zRJYyxfh0SIEZCUdV58BJE+bxMn9H-e

Mostly the same idea, but focussed around condis and trying to make the most out of the passive damage from rot wallow venom and venom stacks. Ritualist gear made sense because the expertise affects the base rot wallow venom duration, getting from 2s to 3s is a 50% damage increase, and a lot of things that should affect rot wallow venom duration actually don't (sigil of demons and meaty asparagus skewer both tested and did not affect it), plaguedoctors gear did give substantially better heals as you'd expect but significantly less damage. The health pool means that consume shadows is a bit more substantial too. I'm not hitting big numbers, but from what I'm told the damage is on par with a healbrand in most fractal runs I've had.

I don't know if you know, but the healing per second foods like mango pie actually proc sanctuary runes. That has insane synergy with shadow saviour/traversing dusk combined with shadestep, you're reliably healing 10 people per port in a group scenario with sword ports which generates an insane amount of shadow force and rot wallow venom application. I'm using S/D with the boss targeted for doom procs to spam venoms around me and Sc/P for targeted support, and syphon to basically insta res players as they go down. 

The problem I have is that my build doesn't carry like other supports can. I can keep one guy from dying in a fractal group pretty happily if the others know what they are doing, but if two start getting hit it is very difficult to keep up DPS and heal both of them. So it's a support that feels like it's dependant on your team playing well, which leaves me wondering if they are playing well enough to not need a full support why am I not playing full alac DPS.

I'll give harriers a go next time I'm in the mood to play. I'd not considered it before because of the health pool but everything is worth trying once, right? xD

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People keep saying support specter builds are fine *IF...*, or they are good for *THIS specific case...*, or if you run *THAT niche comp...* but I think that's my problem with specter as a whole, it does absolutely nothing better than a competing build on another class and often is worse for the same role when compared to other supports in the majority of cases. For example, a support specter offers very little in terms of both utility and healing when compared to my support rev or guardian build (it can give some AoE barrier every ~10-15 seconds is about it) while providing significantly less boons and CC and requiring significantly more nuance and effort to play at a similar level in group content due to its single target nature, this gives me next to no reason to want to play it over virtually any other support build which can do everything specter can but in an area of 5 players instead of 1.

What I mean is sure you can technically heal for as much as a herald rev but it requires you to stack wells/ports, use very specific traits (not uncommon for supports but specter has no real options for variety or utility), run sword/pistol (which isn't a healing set at all) and basically spam sword 2 for ports just to achieve marginally close to the same healing that heralds can get passively, and heralds can also upkeep 6-7 boons passively at the same time, both are annoying because you need to spam utilities but herald gets A LOT more than just Alacrity and unwanted mobility out of it.

Most other supports (post druid buff) are around the same level these days giving you various options for the role but then Specter sits squarely in the "Why would I use this over X?" category for me and has been there since shortly after the post-launch nerfs.

I'm not sure what exactly they could do to improve this outlook for me but I would start by looking at the mostly worthless shroud mechanic, currently you feel punished for staying in shroud for any more than 5 seconds due to it's very low healing/boon/damage output.

My favorite idea is having shroud skills ALL focus on heavy AoE healing(or barrier)/damage cleave but for a more limited time (think holosmith forge instead of Necro shroud) and having the non-shroud scepter skills focus on single targeted-radius AoEs (you target an enemy/ally and the effect happens 100% on them and something like 50% on 4 targets in X radius around them, think Mind Sear from WoW) for example Shadow Sap could target an ally and heal them for the full amount but heal everyone in a 180 radius around them for 50% and apply the might to all affected, this would actually make it a really good filler heal/buffer instead of the worthless trash it is currently, it could work the same way for targeting enemies, except by applying AoE damage/condis which DPS specter desperately needs. Something like this would help Specter maintain it's identity towards single targets but make it much more usable as a support in both PvE and WvW by giving it some AoE capabilities. Unfortunately things like that are more in the "rework" category of changes but Anet seems to think tweaks to numbers is all specter needs which is... laughable imo.

Edited by Nomad.4301
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