4th elite spec

[holloko.2570]

Welp

Edited March 13, 2023 by holloko.2570

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

3 hours ago, holloko.2570 said:

Or better yet, avatar of fallen Balthazar with a torch or scepter or flaming spear

kittening hell I thought the endless Balthazar requests (boring) would kittening end when we got greatsword

[Kulvar.1239]

What if the next elite spec was the Elder Dragons ?

Weapon : daggers ("dragon fangs")
Healing skill = Soo-Won
Utility = Zhaitan, Mordremoth, Kralkatorrik
Elite skill = Jormag + Primordius combo
F2 skill = Dragonvoid

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

What if the next elite spec was the Elder Dragons ?

Weapon : daggers ("dragon fangs")
Healing skill = Soo-Won
Utility = Zhaitan, Mordremoth, Kralkatorrik
Elite skill = Jormag + Primordius combo
F2 skill = Dragonvoid

Seems unlikely, for three reasons off the top of my head:

1) Elder Dragons and gods seem to be beyond the scope of what a revenant can channel.

2) The revenant PC has expressed a distaste for channelling the legend of a personal antagonist except as a short-term emergency thing (seen with Joko, but also likely applies to Scarlet and most Elder Dragons).

3) Revenant already has a Legendary Dragon Stance with Glint.

[Batalix.2873]

I think they somewhat missed with Vindicator. I understand the philosophy: Revenant is all about imitating things on a farther/larger scale by calling on thing through the mists. Herald lets you pseudo-summon a huge dragon and manipulate the area immediately around you. Renegade lets you command a band of amazons and call down artillery as if you are one of a larger army. And Vindicator seems stuck between the idea of leaping quickly through the mists (which is already somewhat present in core Rev weapons), and being mentally torn between multiple legends (which is also somewhat present in core Rev design).

 

Where the design falls flat is if the idea of Vindicator is this schizoid personality disorder, then the idea of a rapidly swapping dual nature is undermined by a long cooldown between Vikky and Archy. Although frankly I still think even if that were fixed it still would not save both sets of slot skills from having no real identity. I just can't help but feel like the gimmick was always going to be flavorfully and mechanically thin when the only defining skills of each legend are their elites.

 

I still think it was a poor decision to make it Cantha themed, when "leaping greatsword Rev" was a perfect candidate for an IBS tie-in with Asgeir or Jora/Svanir. I have to believe that there was a lot more they could do with the norn mythology surrounding the mists than the disjointed design we got featuring two extremely underdeveloped characters.

 

Anyway, Rev's overarching design has been ruined for me. While I do think that a fourth espec is possible with Zinn or maybe Svanir as some sort of ice mage, EoD and Vindi really did screw over any hopes of the class feeling fully developed, as I don't see us getting a chance to include Norn AND Asuran legends anymore--despite the history of both cultures having far more interesting stories to tell with legends than "more Shiro". Archemorus/Viktor were such a supreme waste of development resources, and don't even feel good to play.

 

My hope is that, along with a fourth espec, Vindicator gets completely reworked with a new legend, maybe even a new weapon, because it is conceptually thin, undercooked, and bland.

[draxynnic.3719]

It'd be interesting to see what the thinking behind Vindicator was. Did they decide that they wanted a dual legend first, and then go looking for suitable figures to fill that role, or did they start with wanting a Canthan legend, and the pair was the first thing they came up with? Because if they were just looking for a Canthan legend, there are a lot of other options they could have gone with. Zhu Hanuku. Urgoz. One of the founders of Cantha. I'm not really a fan of the "elite specialisations must be themed according to the expansion they come with" paradigm myself - it's good for a few to be, but new things can come out of core Tyria as well - but even if, for the sake of discussion, we were to take it as given that Vindicator is bad, I don't think that can be blamed simply on them going for a Canthan legend. Regardless of what one thinks of the mechanics, from a historical and legendary perspective, there were better options than a pair whose primary claim to fame is playing a part in Shiro's legend.

I'd also note that there is at least the possibility that once we're done with Cantha (and now that we already seem to be done with Elona) that future expansions might end up visiting regions where a norn or asura legend might make sense.

I would say, though, that there is a distinct flaw in the implementation of the two legends. Namely, that Archemorus really wants damage-oriented stats, while Viktor really wants healing power, and short of running celestial there isn't really a set that caters to that. Once they'd given up on skill-flipping, Vindicator might well have been better off going "well, this elite has two legends to choose from, take the one that fits your build" - because that's essentially what people are doing anyway. That, or introduce a trait that converts healing power into power while in Archemorus, and vice versa when in Viktor.

[Batalix.2873]

On 4/13/2023 at 12:40 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

It'd be interesting to see what the thinking behind Vindicator was. Did they decide that they wanted a dual legend first, and then go looking for suitable figures to fill that role, or did they start with wanting a Canthan legend, and the pair was the first thing they came up with? Because if they were just looking for a Canthan legend, there are a lot of other options they could have gone with. Zhu Hanuku. Urgoz. One of the founders of Cantha. I'm not really a fan of the "elite specialisations must be themed according to the expansion they come with" paradigm myself - it's good for a few to be, but new things can come out of core Tyria as well - but even if, for the sake of discussion, we were to take it as given that Vindicator is bad, I don't think that can be blamed simply on them going for a Canthan legend. Regardless of what one thinks of the mechanics, from a historical and legendary perspective, there were better options than a pair whose primary claim to fame is playing a part in Shiro's legend.

I'd also note that there is at least the possibility that once we're done with Cantha (and now that we already seem to be done with Elona) that future expansions might end up visiting regions where a norn or asura legend might make sense.

I would say, though, that there is a distinct flaw in the implementation of the two legends. Namely, that Archemorus really wants damage-oriented stats, while Viktor really wants healing power, and short of running celestial there isn't really a set that caters to that. Once they'd given up on skill-flipping, Vindicator might well have been better off going "well, this elite has two legends to choose from, take the one that fits your build" - because that's essentially what people are doing anyway. That, or introduce a trait that converts healing power into power while in Archemorus, and vice versa when in Viktor.

 

Well one of my criticisms with Vindicator is that, outside of the spear and urn elites, the slot skills don't feel particularly distinct, flavorful, or "Revenant" anyway. Glint has her facets and Kalla has these Amazonian band members, both of which feel vaguely like things only Revenant could call through the mists. All of the core legends have very distinct fantasies that play out through the slot skills, some of which almost tell stories. Vindicator has: a heal, a gap closer/creator, an AoE spell, and a stunbreak. Minimal visual effects, and overall very rote functions, animations, and identity that could easily have been any core profession's utility skills.

 

So while you are correct that functionally players only want to run one or the other for purposes of stats and build variety, I still argue that the legends themselves only remotely approach something interesting with some sort of rapid flip mechanic. And even then, assembling the two non-halves just amounts to a very generic and underwhelming whole. Imo, encouraging players to just pick one necessarily begs a total rework of the slot skills to give them some sense of character and identity. Rev is about telling the history of GW1, and neither half of Vindi tells anything resembling a story.

 

As for whether they came up with the dual legend or the Canthan legend idea first, it feels like they kind of settled on both around the same time as kind of low-hanging, half-baked ideas. I would bet that Canthan came first though, based on the fact that had they chosen any other pairing of legends, the slot skills would have had much more identity. The way how numbers 6-9 just feel so last-minute and non-specific makes me think that (a) the dual mechanic was chosen as the gimmick, before they had come up with any real concept for a slot skills "story" and likely justified as replacing the need for a stronger character concept, but (b) after they had settled on Archy/Vikky, because only characters with as little backstory as them could have sustained an empty design like this to release.

 

Actually, I just thought of a reasonable way to maybe salvage Vindicator. They could retool all of the slot skills to use the "artifact" and emulate Archy or Vikky. A Vindicator that could actually use the spear themselves in several different ways, maybe emulate Archemorus, might feel more cohesive. Same with having options of how to use the urn. It might stray a little close to Ventari gameplay, but if they could really drive home the idea of artifacts and embodying either hero, it might work. It's very thin, and I still argue it would have worked better as a Norn legend, but it's better than what we got.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[arazoth.7290]

16 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

 

Well one of my criticisms with Vindicator is that, outside of the spear and urn elites, the slot skills don't feel particularly distinct, flavorful, or "Revenant" anyway. Glint has her facets and Kalla has these Amazonian band members, both of which feel vaguely like things only Revenant could call through the mists. All of the core legends have very distinct fantasies that play out through the slot skills, some of which almost tell stories. Vindicator has: a heal, a gap closer/creator, an AoE spell, and a stunbreak. Minimal visual effects, and overall very rote functions, animations, and identity that could easily have been any core profession's utility skills.

 

So while you are correct that functionally players only want to run one or the other for purposes of stats and build variety, I still argue that the legends themselves only remotely approach something interesting with some sort of rapid flip mechanic. And even then, assembling the two non-halves just amounts to a very generic and underwhelming whole. Imo, encouraging players to just pick one necessarily begs a total rework of the slot skills to give them some sense of character and identity. Rev is about telling the history of GW1, and neither half of Vindi tells anything resembling a story.

 

As for whether they came up with the dual legend or the Canthan legend idea first, it feels like they kind of settled on both around the same time as kind of low-hanging, half-baked ideas. I would bet that Canthan came first though, based on the fact that had they chosen any other pairing of legends, the slot skills would have had much more identity. The way how numbers 6-9 just feel so last-minute and non-specific makes me think that (a) the dual mechanic was chosen as the gimmick, before they had come up with any real concept for a slot skills "story" and likely justified as replacing the need for a stronger character concept, but (b) after they had settled on Archy/Vikky, because only characters with as little backstory as them could have sustained an empty design like this to release.

 

Actually, I just thought of a reasonable way to maybe salvage Vindicator. They could retool all of the slot skills to use the "artifact" and emulate Archy or Vikky. A Vindicator that could actually use the spear themselves in several different ways, maybe emulate Archemorus, might feel more cohesive. Same with having options of how to use the urn. It might stray a little close to Ventari gameplay, but if they could really drive home the idea of artifacts and embodying either hero, it might work. It's very thin, and I still argue it would have worked better as a Norn legend, but it's better than what we got.

 

 

Check post I made about an idea for trying to fix this 🙂

[draxynnic.3719]

On 4/15/2023 at 12:46 PM, Batalix.2873 said:

 

Well one of my criticisms with Vindicator is that, outside of the spear and urn elites, the slot skills don't feel particularly distinct, flavorful, or "Revenant" anyway. Glint has her facets and Kalla has these Amazonian band members, both of which feel vaguely like things only Revenant could call through the mists. All of the core legends have very distinct fantasies that play out through the slot skills, some of which almost tell stories. Vindicator has: a heal, a gap closer/creator, an AoE spell, and a stunbreak. Minimal visual effects, and overall very rote functions, animations, and identity that could easily have been any core profession's utility skills.

 

Ehhhh. I see where you're coming from with the previous elite legends, but each of those are essentially reproducing a playstyle that relied on having a lot of one skill type - Glint is essentially the 'use enchantments to fuel attacks' dervish, and Kalla is the spirit spammer bone that ArenaNet threw to the crowd who think revenant should be turned into a ritualist clone just because it has some fluff similarities (won't happen, the architecture of revenant just isn't compatible with how ritualist worked, but they're still demanding it). However, the only core legend that could be argued to take that approach is Ventari where the skills are all areas around the tablet. Shiro, Jalis, and Mallyx, however, all have a variety of skills that are intended to synergise together and/or to provide tools for a range of situations. The Alliance stance is just going (back) to this approach - I don't think it was reasonable to expect every elite legend to follow the Glint/Kalla model.

The core issue is that Viktor and Archemorus were just weak "legends" to begin with. Their entire claim to fame is being part of Shiro's legend, and there's no reason to think that they were ever more exotic than GW1 characters (Archemorus looks like a fire W/E, Viktor a W/Mo). The fantasy is supposed to be having the adaptability gained through being able to flip between them, but they failed to make that stick. There is a bit of a cute callback in there (that in GW1, particularly in Factions, of having fire elementalist and monk healing skills that felt a bit like mirror images of each other, and that's essentially what Archemorus and Viktor are doing), but I have doubts on whether that's deliberate.

[Buran.3796]

   I'm not sure why people asume that the next expansion will grant specs: everything seems to point that the new rythm of content will force ANet to release smaller expansions, and designing specs is one of the hardest thing to do (not to mention that in EoD we found some repetitiveness, lack of distinctive features in some of the specs and tons and tons of recycled animations).

   I think that there's more chances to either open the use of spec weapons to all specs/core (which will be very easy to implement, and very tame in terms of power creep, since running Renegade's short bow as a core, Herald or Vindi won't make it  as powerfull as in synergy to the Renegade traitline). So, spec weapons becoming available across the whole profession would make the classes more versatile whitout harmong balance to much or whithout requiring a huge effort. Another option would be the release of a new core weapon for all professions, but that means at least 24 new skills (probably a lot morte), and if they plan to re.-use animations again I would prefer from them to take that route.

   Finally, if they plan to give us full new specs (to introduce new trillions of bugs and power creep) then my preferences for a new Rev would be a tank spec with hateful amounts of cc: we already have a boon-sharing/extending quickness Herald, an hybrid ranged fighter with alacrity in the Renegade and a (mostly) power AoE Vindicator with tons of dps (with an almost immortal hybrid build). I don't care which weapon/s as long as a) they aren't firearms, and b) whe don't get stealth. A rev with a gun/s and/or stealth is the last thing I want.

   Still, I would prefer just opening all spec weapons; las time they had 4.5 years to release EoD and specs felt rushed as hell... 

[Batalix.2873]

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

   I'm not sure why people asume that the next expansion will grant specs: everything seems to point that the new rythm of content will force ANet to release smaller expansions, and designing specs is one of the hardest thing to do (not to mention that in EoD we found some repetitiveness, lack of distinctive features in some of the specs and tons and tons of recycled animations).

   I think that there's more chances to either open the use of spec weapons to all specs/core (which will be very easy to implement, and very tame in terms of power creep, since running Renegade's short bow as a core, Herald or Vindi won't make it  as powerfull as in synergy to the Renegade traitline). So, spec weapons becoming available across the whole profession would make the classes more versatile whitout harmong balance to much or whithout requiring a huge effort. Another option would be the release of a new core weapon for all professions, but that means at least 24 new skills (probably a lot morte), and if they plan to re.-use animations again I would prefer from them to take that route.

   Finally, if they plan to give us full new specs (to introduce new trillions of bugs and power creep) then my preferences for a new Rev would be a tank spec with hateful amounts of cc: we already have a boon-sharing/extending quickness Herald, an hybrid ranged fighter with alacrity in the Renegade and a (mostly) power AoE Vindicator with tons of dps (with an almost immortal hybrid build). I don't care which weapon/s as long as a) they aren't firearms, and b) whe don't get stealth. A rev with a gun/s and/or stealth is the last thing I want.

   Still, I would prefer just opening all spec weapons; las time they had 4.5 years to release EoD and specs felt rushed as hell... 

 

I don't think especs are highly likely, although I do see possibly *just* enough design space to eek out one last set.

 

I certainly think it is more likely than diluting espec designs by making half of their unique gimmick, their weapons, accessible to core. Yes, I too would love to use weapons outside of their especs, but given how especs are designed it would ruin whatever diversity has managed to exist in the game.

[draxynnic.3719]

I'm actually fairly certain that the next expansion won't have elite specs, but that doesn't mean they're going to stop altogether. From what ArenaNet has said, it seems like they're aiming to release expansions faster than they can realistically develop and balance elite specs, but that doesn't mean that they can't be planning them out to release in a bigger expansion when they're ready.

Releasing elite spec weapons to be usable for the entire profession is not something I see being likely. If they thought that was appropriate, they'd have already done it, and I don't think it's something they'd get away with calling an 'expansion combat feature' since it would just be repackaging what's already in the game.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Could see them giving Revenant scepter and making it function like trident with effects based on the active legend. If only to make up for the lack of core ranged options. 

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

On 2/5/2023 at 9:55 PM, Oceanox.4217 said:

After seeing the vindicator disaster, I don't expect to see a better elite in the future 😔

I keep trying to figure out where the disaster is or are people really just not able to play Vindicator well?

[soul.9651]

2 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

I keep trying to figure out where the disaster is or are people really just not able to play Vindicator well?

Well its the only spec which after testing before eod had a rework how their utility works, and in eod another change where they gave it 2 dodges, + at the beggining of the eod it had such a bad dps, and the only healing build which worked cuz it could give alac was deleted by anet. So i understand people frustration. Rn it has okish dps if we exclude the bug abuse (altho people will keep demanding the buff everywhere now since its gonna be fixed judging by some posts made on forum and reddit), but it has weak cc if you are going full dps on it and the healer build just doesnt exist in PvE. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by soul.9651

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

24 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Well its the only spec which after testing before eod had a rework how their utility works, and in eod another change where they gave it 2 dodges, + at the beggining of the eod it had such a bad dps, and the only healing build which worked cuz it could give alac was deleted by anet. So i understand people frustration. Rn it has okish dps if we exclude the bug abuse (altho people will keep demanding the buff everywhere now since its gonna be fixed judging by some posts made on forum and reddit), but it has weak cc if you are going full dps on it and the healer build just doesnt exist in PvE. 

I would heartily disagree and it's also a stupidly survivable spec if you actually utilize the spec well. Unless you mean revenant spec, then that isn't really true. But things change as times go on.

[soul.9651]

16 minutes ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

I would heartily disagree and it's also a stupidly survivable spec if you actually utilize the spec well. Unless you mean revenant spec, then that isn't really true. But things change as times go on.

It depends how you look at it, if by that you mean something like OW content and survivability builds like lord hizen makes on each spec then u can say that, but if you have in mind instanced content like raids/fracts/strikes survivability is irrelevant there, you either maximizing your dps or give specific boons for your party/squad.

Idk at least thats how i see things rn, if its dps vindicator you have to compete with slb, bladesworn, virtuoso and other specs like that if you are dps in instanced content that i play usually, and its not easy if all bugs aside other specs have just bigger benchmarks or better burst potetials or beeing ranged advantage; meanwhile supp vindicator in that kind of content doesnt exist yet.

Or maybe you have in mind wvw content since there anet had to keep nerfing vindicator but wvw/pvp and pve balance just works differently 

Edited April 27, 2023 by soul.9651

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

1 minute ago, soul.9651 said:

It depends how you look at it, if by that you mean something like OW content and survivability builds like lord hizen makes on each spec then u can say that, but if you have in mind instanced content like raids/fracts/strikes survivability is irrelevant there, you either maximizing your dps or give specific boons for your party/squad.

Idk at least thats how i see things rn, if its dps vindicator you have to compete with slb, bladesworn, virtuoso and other specs like that if you are dps in instanced content that i play usually, and its not easy if all bugs aside other specs have just bigger benchmarks or better burst potetials or beeing ranged advantage, meanwhile supp vindicator in that kind of content doesnt exist yet

And again I will disagree because saying vindicator is not good good DPS that isn't comparable that sounds like a user error because I do quite well and can match on top of being able to survive and providing team boons. But that seems to be an issue I am noting from those who keep saying this, they seem to be playing under an assumption of how the class works.

Hell a well played vindicator can actually stay in melee range of a lot of fights if they know the mechanics and know how to use their toolkit, which again, seems to be the issue I see from people claiming vindicator just isn't good because this unexplainable void of reasons. Hell vindicator is what reinvigorated me to keep playing GW2 because the mechanics are fun, the playstyle is great and if you learn it, well, you can pull out a ton of hat tricks that people standing at a golem and using that as their benchmark don't really get to do.

[soul.9651]

1 minute ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

I do quite well and can match on top of being able to survive and providing team boons

Well can you give an examples then, on top of beeing able to survive and be top dps? What boons do you also gave? What was the upkeep? What content you even were doing?

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

Just now, soul.9651 said:

Well can you give an examples then, on top of beeing able to survive and be top dps? What boons do you also gave? What was the upkeep? What content you even were doing?

I never said be top I said be comparable. I don't beat on a golem either I go out and join raids, I do fractals, and I do strikes. Using leap offensively and then cycling in a regularly attacks to rebuild stamina quickly so I can leap again and keep this cycle going. I use Scavenger Burst a lot when will regen your endurance. Leap is part of the toolkit, and it gets used religiously. Tends to also help me avoid many attacks. So does imperial guard which, if used well, can also be used as a damage enhanced offensive attack since it stacks more damage up the more it blocks. And if I really do have to dodge or get out of town that's what phantom and nomad's are for.

I mean spear, scavenger, eternity, phantom, and mist unleashed I keep on regular cooldown cycling in a leap between each or try to regularly and no I don't abuse the bug with leap either. My timing isn't that great to do it anyways. And swap to Shiro and go full beast mode while waiting on the cooldown so turn impossible odds and activate enchanted daggers, then just use eternity phantom and mist on CD still.

And another great thing, Selfish Spirit can also be used offensively if you are needing to heal yourself. Reaver's Rage gets used for break and if I know I am going into a break heavy fight well I just put the dwarf on in place of Shiro. I can typically be in the top 3 in a raid or strike. Someone better can probably do much better than me and I have seen plenty of vinds outpace me, especially since my gear is still not the best. I still don't have a full ascended set or the proper runes I want yet.

And as far as boons I give Vigor, Might, and Protection.

[soul.9651]

3 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

I never said be top I said be comparable. I don't beat on a golem either I go out and join raids, I do fractals, and I do strikes. Using leap offensively and then cycling in a regularly attacks to rebuild stamina quickly so I can leap again and keep this cycle going. I use Scavenger Burst a lot when will regen your endurance. Leap is part of the toolkit, and it gets used religiously. Tends to also help me avoid many attacks. So does imperial guard which, if used well, can also be used as a damage enhanced offensive attack since it stacks more damage up the more it blocks. And if I really do have to dodge or get out of town that's what phantom and nomad's are for.

I mean spear, scavenger, eternity, phantom, and mist unleashed I keep on regular cooldown cycling in a leap between each or try to regularly and no I don't abuse the bug with leap either. My timing isn't that great to do it anyways. And swap to Shiro and go full beast mode while waiting on the cooldown so turn impossible odds and activate enchanted daggers, then just use eternity phantom and mist on CD still.

And another great thing, Selfish Spirit can also be used offensively if you are needing to heal yourself. Reaver's Rage gets used for break and if I know I am going into a break heavy fight well I just put the dwarf on in place of Shiro. I can typically be in the top 3 in a raid or strike. Someone better can probably do much better than me and I have seen plenty of vinds outpace me, especially since my gear is still not the best. I still don't have a full ascended set or the proper runes I want yet.

And as far as boons I give Vigor, Might, and Protection.

I mean its great that you try use your skills while trying to adapt to situations or help out with some boons, but without specific numbers or combat logs this might also mean doing less dps than a qfb or qherald, less boon output too, which might also be already covered by a healer btw. Again im not flaming or anything and its nice if u say that you try to help out the party or the squad with boons or mechanics or how you adapt your build or skills cuz this is how everyone should be doing things, but i didnt see any specific examples how impactfull that help or performance is.

Edited April 27, 2023 by soul.9651

[draxynnic.3719]

12 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

I keep trying to figure out where the disaster is or are people really just not able to play Vindicator well?

I think it's more about theme than effectiveness. You can make anything effective if you pump the numbers high enough.

Vindicator does feel fairly weak from a thematic perspective, however. Viktor and Archy aren't really of legendary status - their only deeds of note are fighting Shiro, whom they only beat with Vizu's help, and this ultimately just makes them part of Shiro's legend. The dual-legend mechanic of Alliance Stance just isn't used a lot of the time due to most builds being built for either DPS or healing, not both at once. While the leap is... well, it's an interesting mechanic, but it feels more like ArenaNet decided they wanted the Asian-themed expansion to have a Final Fantasy dragoon-like mechanic rather than actually having anything to do with either character. Most of the skills can be justified through Archy being some kind of fire magic using warrior and Viktor being some kind of healing magic using warrior, but the leap seems to come from nowhere (I don't recall either doing that in the cinematic of their battle with Shiro).

[Buran.3796]

   Yep. Archy + Vicky stack 10 skills but I could easily chose 5 and ditch half of them without missing the other half at all.  In terms of lore, they are minor pieces of a larger legend (Shiro), and in terms of gameplay I really don't like a third legend if the swap doesn't provides any energy.  

   In PvP ANet chosed to kill Herald/Renegade pre EoD to make Vindi a p2w spec, but then(as always when they play with critical mechanics as dodges)  had to nerf Vindi so many times that now there's not a single Rev spec being part of the meta, and I don't see that changing. So congrats ANet, you have a bland (lore wise) new leged which repeats in humans, which adds nothing new to instanced content (being qHerald and alacrigade the main ticket sellers) and easily in PvP from OP to irrelevant with nothing in between.

   OW solo Vindicator is dope, tho, in both power and hybrid builds.

[Twilightmage.8309]

I kind of want a power rifle spec since rev lacks power ranged weps in pve. It would be a cool pairing for hammer which is a cool weapon but just isn't good enough to be widely used.

[Seis.4736]

Logan Thackery

 

So we get an excuse to kill him off and remember him forever in our hearts.