Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Warning Viewing this jpg image may cause you to drawback in cringe and fall out of your chair View at your own risk https://imgur.com/om8IByG 1 2 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 And now we wait for the arrival of the forum warriors to tell everyone that "it's a l2p issue, people just don't know how to fight catalyst/spellbreaker!" 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said: Warning Viewing this jpg image may cause you to drawback in cringe and fall out of your chair View at your own risk https://imgur.com/om8IByG Not a single Tempest... Its funny that Tempest fell out of the meta again. Just a few MAT´s back, Tempest was a necessity. Tempest was so dominant because everybody and their dog would run projectilebased builds. Current meta is SPB,Cata and Vindi... all 3 dont use projectiles alot. So the top teams shifted back to Guardian. Prolly because of the stab to counter SPB´s, which Tempest cant provide..... Interesting to say the least. I thought Tempest kicked supguard from the throne forever... turns out it was a symptome of the meta at that time and we are back to guardian now that the meta has shifted. That kinda shows that the balancing might actually not be too bad, regarding the support picks. Depending on the enemy team, either a Tempest or a Supguard can provide more helpful tools. Edited January 12, 2023 by Sahne.6950 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said: And now we wait for the arrival of the forum warriors to tell everyone that "it's a l2p issue, people just don't know how to fight catalyst/spellbreaker!" "Even Warrior mains dont play Warrior" 🙄 /s Meanwhile top teams stack 4 of them xD Edited January 12, 2023 by Sahne.6950 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noneHotBuildTest.7251 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) This is survivorship bias. Cata is the most hardest class in gw2 which mean there only best player will play it. There has nothing wrong when the best player got mAT. 1% of people cant make it work.... but those 99% live in downstate meta is not the case. Just Like teapot say "Just let it theoretical broken, it is fine coz it hard to play and only true gamer can push it to limit". The true broken is 111 nade engi, ez as f********k Edited January 12, 2023 by noneHotBuildTest.7251 3 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahne.6950 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said: This is survivorship bias. Cata is the most hardest in gw2 which mean there only best player will play it. There has nothing wrong when the best player got mAT. 1% of people cant make it work.... but those 99% live in downstate meta is not the case. Just Like teapot say "Just let it theoretical broken, it is fine coz it hard to play and only true gamer can push it to limit". The true broken is 111 nade engi, ez as f********k proteams are stacking 3 and even 4 of a single profession. Which is unusual to say the least... the only times this is seen, is when something is blatantly overtuned. meanwhile NOT A SINGLE ENGINEER was seen. conclusion: nerf core engie. NHBT at its finest. https://imgur.com/IPx38L7 Edited January 12, 2023 by Sahne.6950 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotejjeken.1267 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Those look like win-trader comps. Also, I wouldn't call it a vindicator show when there is a literal single one in the screenshot 😂. 4 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 31 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said: That kinda shows that the balancing might actually not be too bad, regarding the support picks. Well it's also an aspect of so many Catalysts in play, which grant auras constantly, so comps don't really need Tempest auras currently, and in that event Core Guard aegis spam is by default the better pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagerus.8675 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Instead of nerfing Catalyst or Defense Spellbreaker, I think we should rebuff Willbinder, Specter, and Scourge. Let's break that glass ceiling and make sure that -no one- is comfortable on a single powerful build. Don't nerf, buff counters, let skill decide. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noneHotBuildTest.7251 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said: proteams are stacking 3 and even 4 of a single profession. Which is unusual to say the least... the only times this is seen, is when something is blatantly overtuned. meanwhile NOT A SINGLE ENGINEER was seen. conclusion: nerf core engie. NHBT at its finest. https://imgur.com/IPx38L7 I just a little regret to whining about warrior. Back to old day, everytime I mentioned about engi , everyone will agree that engi op . I don't even need to say what build is it, the will automatically differentiate into height rank -> holo OP, low rank mecha op. But when I try to whine about warriors, they just full counter , even the elementalist main (the counter of the warrior) will cover it. Edited January 12, 2023 by noneHotBuildTest.7251 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 36 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said: And now we wait for the arrival of the forum warriors to tell everyone that "it's a l2p issue, people just don't know how to fight catalyst/spellbreaker!" Using hard logic(unusual and unwelcome around here) there is not a single class, you lot know how to play against, as you just jump from a "nerf profession A" to "nerf profession B" going through all the alphabet between balance patches....with ele and warrior nerfed...you'll just jump to the next best thing to nerf and cry about for next 2-3 months, rinse and repeat at infinitum ...been like this for years, is there actually something you lot can win against....without having a mental breakdown every time a better player owns you? . 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markri.9475 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 27 minutes ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said: Cata is the most hardest class in gw2 which mean there only best player will play it. There has nothing wrong when the best player got mAT. Revenant is favored by the top players, top players tend to win. Meme. 30 minutes ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said: Just Like teapot say "Just let it theoretical broken, it is fine coz it hard to play and only true gamer can push it to limit". I`m pretty sure this was said about catalyst in PVE. Teapot might feel differently about such statements for PVP. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said: Using hard logic(unusual and unwelcome around here) there is not a single class, you lot know how to play against, as you just jump from a "nerf profession A" to "nerf profession B" going through all the alphabet between balance patches....with ele and warrior nerfed...you'll just jump to the next best thing to nerf and cry about for next 2-3 months, rinse and repeat at infinitum ...been like this for years, is there actually something you lot can win against....without having a mental breakdown every time a better player owns you? . This is so full of misinformation and troll bias. Guild Wars 2 is notoriously a game where they use a "stir the bucket" model purposely to shift the dynamic of how classes/builds feel. They do this to keep the game fresh and different so it doesn't get boring. In the process of doing this we get short-thought balance changes that very often set a class/build far ahead in performance value than other classes/builds, or in some cases a class/build is nerfed too much. In other words, they don't actually aim at balancing the game until AFTER the community points out what is currently wrong with the current intra-class dynamic. In other words, they don't actually aim at balancing anything until AFTER the community points out what is currently overperforming or underperforming in pve and competitive modes. It's hilarious that you are short-sighted enough to not be able to see this. If people stopped complaining & giving feedback, there would be no balance direction at all, seeing as how they largely base their "stir the bucket" agenda based on what the community has identified is too strong or weak from the previous patch. Player complaint/feedback is important. If it weren't for this, we'd have devs balancing the game who make public quotes like: "I've never played Ranger. I'm working with the wiki here." If they're going to stir the bucket and make mandatory changes to refresh dynamic, they need to players to tell them which areas in needs to happen in next. The only reason players have to do this to begin with, is because we are playing a game that is never actually going to be balanced due to that stir the bucket method. Player feedback is important. And to be completely honest in regards to your statement, we are currently in one of the absolute most lopsided imbalanced competitive metas that Guild Wars 2 has ever seen. I mean seriously, it's bad right now. Catalyst is like Tier 4 OP, Spellbreaker and Vindi sitting around Tier 2-3 OP, Untamed maybe Tier 1 OP, and then the rest of the classes don't even rate on the scale of overperforming. That's how far ahead Catalyst Spellbreaker Vindicator are from other classes. Players are right to ask for straight direct hard nerfs. Edited January 12, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Title include vindicator... See a single vindicator out of 20 characters in the screenshot... Objectively core guardian seem a lot more dominant than vindicator in representation with a whole 2 characters in 4 groups. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffles.5632 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said: Title include vindicator... See a single vindicator out of 20 characters in the screenshot... Objectively core guardian seem a lot more dominant than vindicator in representation with a whole 2 characters in 4 groups. That itself is a bit misleading because of how far ahead Cata is atm compared to others. We really are in the orders of magnitude meta here. Salvation/Invocation/Vindi is a beast of a spec, just look at the synergies and the numbers. By the very math, it is leagues ahead of any other spec that fulfills a similar role. Just because Cata is SSS+ tier, doesn't mean that Vindi isn't SS tier atm. As soon as Cata drops, if Vindi is untouched, it will be exactly the same as it is now, except instead of Cata, it will be vindi threads again. Note: I have seen Vindi's go Salvation/Retribution or Devastation instead if Invocation however the main thing seems to be: Salvation/Vindicator/X Don't ignore the subtleties. Cata and Vindi aren't really directly comparable to each other, but to their respective roles in pvp, they far outclass any other option presently. This is all IMO, but I called double stacking cata months ago, back in 2v2 I saw how powerful it could be. I also called Vindi as well. Again all from seeing how the 2v2 season went, and that was pre-buffed dragontooth. Dragontooth specifically isn't even the problem, the problem is they litter the entire screen with AOE's of varying damage/condi/utility. When you have 2 of them, this further compounds onto itself because now they can "stack" the same zone, or spread out and cover such a large area, that even if you blink away, you will step into an AOE. This scenario gets compounded yet again because now a Vindi/Herald/WB/Thief(some combo of 2) is chasing you and you cannot get away from that I am sorry. The AOE's push you out and then the mobility power creep from the above classes isolates you completely. As more and more people become aware of this the problem will only get bigger. As of now I have seen no effective counter play or strategy to combat the above. You can't really play around it because the mobility creep has allowed all classes to effectively "roam" when the need arises. 25% bonus movement speed isn't an advantage anymore, it is baseline now, and swiftness is given very freely to a select few classes (guardian, will bender trait that gives BOTH 25% MS AND procs swiftness, talk about fat and bloated trait) Between that and the new movement skills, there is a lot more freedom now between nodes. Edit: Also this is one sample size. I would argue that over 1,000 matches we would see far more vindi's than core guardians. Edited January 12, 2023 by Waffles.5632 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myror.7521 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 Tho I would welcome some nerfs to Spellbraker and Catalyst. Not to warrior itself since you would also nerf other builds and are not even close to meta standing. Same goes to ele tho. Just nerf the e-spec! Tbf if you try to nerf it per core traitline then do it slightly and not nerf it to death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said: As of now I have seen no effective counter play or strategy to combat the above There actually isn't any counterplay vs. Catalyst Spellbreaker Vindi unless you're team is running a Catalyst Spellbreaker Vindi stack. These 3 classes are way way too far ahead of other specs. As I've stated several times, this is no usual balance complaint lately. The game's dynamic is actually completely broken right now. Catalyst stacks are ridiculous for every obvious reason I should not have to mention. But what puts them ahead of Spellbreaker Vindi right now is the constant aura share between themselves in conjunction with wise synergized combo play and of course the inordinate self sustain it has for being able to run a God Tier ranged DPS spec with unblockable combos. The coordinated combo play is where it gets to be stupid though. If people have good communication synergy they can do several blasts on a single water field and keep each other at full health constantly. It's like running a full support comp while still being a stack of Sic Em OWP Soulbeasts who's burst is on a 6s CD for some reason instead of a 60s CD. Spellbreaker stacks are starting to creep up in favoritism because they're figuring out that you can run 4 or 5 Spellbreakers on the same team, have ultimate self-sustain individually from each Spellbreaker to begin with, but then they can all also run Banner as elite. So it takes forever to widdle down a Spellbreaker to begin with but then when one goes into downstate, they just Banner each other off the ground. It's like being a full support comp while still being a maximum power team fight roam side node comp as well. No drawbacks. Vindicator stacks are nearly just as bad but they don't posses the kind of CC or revive ability as Catalyst Spellbreakers. So they can't ensure kills in the same way that Catas SBers can. They can however just hold a node forever and not die, and eventually make you have to leave the node from too much random AoE splash damage that nothing can sustain against in the course of time unless it goes into kiting to avoid it. If you get 2 or 3 of them on a node dodging around constantly and laying GS5s, it chews you up worse than standing in a stack of symbols or wells. But at least when you put Vindi stack into downstate, they stay in downstate. In terms of stack potential, Vindi is nothing compared to Cata or Spellbreaker when stacked. Like there are reasons to run 1x Vindi on a team, but there is no reason to run multiple. Cata & Spellbreaker on the other hand are so strong right now that there is no drawback to running multiples, only advantages. From what I see in the final rounds of ATs lately, I think even Vindicator is going to fall out soon to Cata & Spellbreaker. The jpg you see of the team Vaans was in, is exactly how I would design a serious meta formation for an MAT. 2x Catas, 2x SPBs, and a Core Guard Support. You'd have 3x sources of revives, Ultimate ranged DPS potential, plenty of auras to go around, plenty of CC to go around, maximum levels of +ing team fight side node 1v1 potential, and enough mobility to warrant not even worrying about needing a Thief, and of course all that added unnecessary sustain coming off the Core Guard. The sustain in this comp would be outstanding between the individual sustain of the Catas & SPBs mixed with the Core Guard, and all of that CC being throw around to stop up and interrupt opponent's DPS. These are the only 3 classes you need right now. Cata/Spellbreaker/Core Guard <- That's the meta. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damocles.4908 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 this is meta karma, hahaha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 Yeah, I heard Akira Toriyami heard about this game. It inspired him and Goku's next form is going to be called the Catalyst. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmTheStorm.2364 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said: Yeah, I heard Akira Toriyami heard about this game. It inspired him and Goku's next form is going to be called the Catalyst. They will also be renaming Kaioken to "Fire Attunement" and Spirit Bomb to "Dragon's Tooth". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) Lmfao four spellbreaker Ok ok, fine. Point proven. Edited January 12, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 14 hours ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said: This is survivorship bias. Cata is the most hardest class in gw2 which mean there only best player will play it. There has nothing wrong when the best player got mAT. 1% of people cant make it work.... but those 99% live in downstate meta is not the case. Just Like teapot say "Just let it theoretical broken, it is fine coz it hard to play and only true gamer can push it to limit". The true broken is 111 nade engi, ez as f********k Nah cata perishes too. Live by the sword, die by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxoglanis.1904 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 we did it everyone we broke the necro guard meta 1 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said: This is survivorship bias. Cata is the most hardest class in gw2 which mean there only best player will play it. There has nothing wrong when the best player got mAT. 1% of people cant make it work.... but those 99% live in downstate meta is not the case. Just Like teapot say "Just let it theoretical broken, it is fine coz it hard to play and only true gamer can push it to limit". The true broken is 111 nade engi, ez as f********k Did you just not see my earlier thread post. Am not pro and I’m facing 4 eles in ranked games on the opposing team. I don’t get how you can whine ver classes that don’t even make meta in these forms and not complain about this. you look at that and think to yourself… you know what, engi is the problem???? Let me put it this way, if this picture had shown tools holos where all those cata’s were…. You’d be whining on every forum right and claiming he completely justified your nonsense. Edited January 13, 2023 by shion.2084 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I just want quickness back on scrapper and I'm happy. Other classes being strong doesn't bother me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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