Population drops

[Alsandar.7420]

It’s pretty simple:

1) A lot of people transferred to Mag because they don’t want to fight Mag ever again.

2) Tier 1 servers stopped playing because Mag is basically unstoppable since anet nerfed all the support professions into oblivion

3) Tier 2 servers stopped playing because they don’t want to move into tier 1 and face Mag

4) Mag’s reputation is so prevalent that new people are hearing about it - so they’re not willing to step into WvW 

Mag is WvW. They’ve taken the game mode away from Anet. Anet’s obsession with balance in 2022 played right into Mag’s hands. 

[Tryfan.1457]

9 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

How does this work? Do people sitting in a large queue to get into a BG get counted as active? 

Nobody knows but I seriously doubt it, unless they are in another battleground doing stuff while in queue.

 

Ask EU, they were apparently manipulating it at one point.

[Chaba.5410]

7 minutes ago, Alsandar.7420 said:

Anet’s obsession with balance in 2022 played right into Mag’s hands. 

ooOOOooo spoooky

[Random dude.5089]

if you are talking that the map is empty , yes we faced two servers and red side is legit empty 80% of time , we get even their main keep to t3 , i saw probably 5 reds the whole day , sm being taken for over 3 days and not being contested , its gonna be the same issue with population , there is legit no need for people to join wvw , no good rewards , everything is better in pve , no reason for you to win a skirm , no reason for you to win a whole match tryhardring ,   and they are actualy working on it , ijust hope they do it fast because this is not hard to impliment , i don't know whats taking so long , increase rewards , give rewards at the end a skirm , give a reward at the end of a match , reward people for roaming and defending , remove the god kitten desert map , im playing for almost a year and i still don't know where the kitten should i go on the side keeps to defend , its so confusing for new players that nobody wanna brother being there unless there is a q in ebg, and thats about it.

[lotus.5672]

2 hours ago, Alsandar.7420 said:

It’s pretty simple:

1) A lot of people transferred to Mag because they don’t want to fight Mag ever again.

2) Tier 1 servers stopped playing because Mag is basically unstoppable since anet nerfed all the support professions into oblivion

3) Tier 2 servers stopped playing because they don’t want to move into tier 1 and face Mag

4) Mag’s reputation is so prevalent that new people are hearing about it - so they’re not willing to step into WvW 

Mag is WvW. They’ve taken the game mode away from Anet. Anet’s obsession with balance in 2022 played right into Mag’s hands. 

NA wvw is a disease at this point, mag is the cure.

Its time to let it go and be free my friends

[kash.9213]

59 minutes ago, Denver.4621 said:

if you are talking that the map is empty , yes we faced two servers and red side is legit empty 80% of time , we get even their main keep to t3 , i saw probably 5 reds the whole day , sm being taken for over 3 days and not being contested , its gonna be the same issue with population , there is legit no need for people to join wvw , no good rewards , everything is better in pve , no reason for you to win a skirm , no reason for you to win a whole match tryhardring ,   and they are actualy working on it , ijust hope they do it fast because this is not hard to impliment , i don't know whats taking so long , increase rewards , give rewards at the end a skirm , give a reward at the end of a match , reward people for roaming and defending , remove the god kitten desert map , im playing for almost a year and i still don't know where the kitten should i go on the side keeps to defend , its so confusing for new players that nobody wanna brother being there unless there is a q in ebg, and thats about it.

I probably get enough materials in WvW and the only higher end reward I'd like an increase of are ascended food ingredients. 

What's missing in WvW is the lived in and open world feel. You're right, there's no reason to win a match except to maneuver for a better slot for your population if you're not tanking it instead that week. No one seems to want anything close to open world though so I guess we'll see how it all improves somehow with Alliances. 

[Arya Whitefire.8423]

42 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

I probably get enough materials in WvW and the only higher end reward I'd like an increase of are ascended food ingredients. 

What's missing in WvW is the lived in and open world feel. You're right, there's no reason to win a match except to maneuver for a better slot for your population if you're not tanking it instead that week. No one seems to want anything close to open world though so I guess we'll see how it all improves somehow with Alliances. 

 

If you want that lived in feel, then the cannon fodder need to get some wins too.  If they never win, they stop playing.  Alliances will make that aspect of the game worse, not better.

[Alsandar.7420]

People keep mentioning that roamers are gone. Mag. The vast majority transferred to Mag.

 

You know all those times your blob stumbled onto roamers… and killed them.

 

Now those roamers are on Mag and they kill your blob.

 

Mag is not a server anymore. It’s a philosophy 

[kash.9213]

4 hours ago, Arya Whitefire.8423 said:

 

If you want that lived in feel, then the cannon fodder need to get some wins too.  If they never win, they stop playing.  Alliances will make that aspect of the game worse, not better.

Ya, people need loot, but that's not going to keep WvW hot. It's stale and sparse if you don't connect with that perfect storm of a map during the right window.

I'm not digging alliances, I was being a little sarcastic. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 hours ago, Alsandar.7420 said:

People keep mentioning that roamers are gone. Mag. The vast majority transferred to Mag.

 

You know all those times your blob stumbled onto roamers… and killed them.

 

Now those roamers are on Mag and they kill your blob.

 

Mag is not a server anymore. It’s a philosophy 

As a roamer it quite often makes me smile when we get posts that roaming is dead, find plenty of us and will actually leave them alone so we both hunt larger prey. Would agree about Mag bringing in more, hence why I defend them, but you have also lead a lot  down the path of the zergling by amassing enough roamers making them respond to call outs by calling out first and fighting second. The difference is the roamer fights first and calls if they fail. You are teaching your peeps to be zerglings. Not all mind you, hence why I defend your actual roamers, but you have a lot of zerglings. Might want to consider that.

[Graymatter.4723]

13 hours ago, Tryfan.1457 said:

You're forgetting that the metric isn't calculated by population alone, it is measured by activity in WvW, and that activity isn't measured daily either. Maguuma opened because BG kept refusing to play and the other t1 server, SoS, only plays in Maguuma downtime. The tanking got so real that Maguuma wasn't even the #1 server for activity anymore because there was so little to do for much of the day. This wasn't a new problem either. Look at the links Maguuma was getting for months. FC. IoJ. YB. Not powerhouses by any means but as far as link activity go, definitely on the upper end of the scale. If it was just "population" Maguuma would have been getting desolations like DR and SF.

 

Most of your post is provably wrong and the idea ANet took direct action to open servers just isn't necessary.

Your whole argument is based on what you think A/Net is doing where I am saying that we have no idea what system they use. The part where your argument falls down is because of these two facts:

1. We know that TC dropped 2 tiers in 2 weeks. One tier per week.

2. You claim that a ton of people transferred to Mag over a couple of weeks but the server stayed open. If the window we changed each week then it would not have stayed open for more than a week.

So, either A/Net changed something or your theory about a ton of people transferring to Mag is just false.

Finally, the population of the servers isn't taken into account, only the WvW population. We have absolutely no idea how A/Net calculates that population. Does someone going into WvW for 5 seconds trigger a WvW player or does it need 10 hours? They may even be taking into account the number of hours in WvW for each player. We have absolutely no idea and anything is just conjecture.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Graymatter.4723

[Graymatter.4723]

13 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

How does this work? Do people sitting in a large queue to get into a BG get counted as active? 

Tryfan doesn't know. He/she is just guessing and trying to make it seem like that's not the case. Only A/Net knows how WvW populations are calculated.

[Tryfan.1457]

No, none of your criticisms are remotely valid. The fact TC  dropped two weeks in a row means nothing. The periods that activity is tracked are not a consistent duration (population changes have happened in a few days or been delayed for two weeks, but happen en masse not on an individual basis) and clearly get triggered by something. Maguuma gained a lot of players and that is a fact, confirmed by guild tracking websites and reinforced by later events.

 

I'm sorry but you are simply wrong. There is absolutely no proof or evidence ANet changed anything and the current change in server populations is 100% explainable by things we already know about the algorithms. I use "we" generously here, because you obviously don't, but was well known to most other people (like the fact the servers are relatively rated against the activity of the #1 server).

 

Frankly, I don't give a flying fark if you believe me or not, but don't come in here claiming other people are wrong when you can't even get the timeline of when Maguuma was open right or figure out that it gained people when its blatantly obvious it did.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Tryfan.1457

[Sugar Min.5834]

This topic is turning hostile and it will be locked. Soon 🙃 I think only a few servers are truly full. The rest are full only when ANet said so. Yep.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Min Min.9368

[Dawdler.8521]

22 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

btw, am i the only one thinking that the population has dropped.... because the population has dropped? I know alot of people that dont set a foot in WvW anymore. Solo roaming is nonexistant in EU.

Well, you can check the overall weekly WvW activity tomorrow. If its above ~1.5 million k+d it beats what the forum has defined as a week of no one playing.

If its below... oh boy. Must be only Anet bots playing.

[Gehenna.3625]

3 hours ago, Min Min.9368 said:

This topic is turning hostile and it will be locked. Soon 🙃 I think only a few servers are truly full. The rest are full only when ANet said so. Yep.

Apparently the server status is determined by how many hours a collective server spends in WvW. That's rough on servers that have a lot of people afk'ing all day just to get pips for wvw tickets. Or people who just run along with ppt zergs, just to be present when capping objectives, but not really participating in combat.

It also doesn't really take into account the skill level of player, nor how they are organized, etc. etc. 

I'm on Piken Square btw, currently tier 2 and next week we'll go to tier 1. We have one of the worst KDRs of the EU zone. We lose most skirmishes and yet we're on top in the match. Why? Because overall the three sides are fairly decently matched but during night times we kill the other two servers. Not all night but some of the time. And the difference is that big, that it puts us on top of the match.

So basically we will be tier one because we stomp the other two servers when they're not active. But during the day and part of the evening we struggle a lot because we have very few commanders, are not that well-organized  and as a rule and we do have a fair number of people that are just there to get pips and don't care about WvW itself. Does that sound like a full, tier 1 server to you?

Next week we'll be tier 1 and will get stomped ourselves by Desolation (they stomp everybody in the EU zone), except it will be most of the time instead of during some night hours and as the week progresses more and more active WvW players will give up for the week. But will that change our server status of full? Probably not because as I said, we have a lot of pip hunters putting in many hours a day, to get legendaries or just to complete reward tracks for specific purposes, currency to buy off HPs in OW or even just for transmutation charges.There are many reasons why people afk/do the bare minimum in WvW and it's not to participate in WvW. 

But they do count against the total amount of hours that are played in WvW and they do cause longer queues at prime time just by being there. They have a right to be there, but it's not beneficial for WvW itself.

 

 

 

[Dawdler.8521]

Just checked and there's 1.62 million k+d in WvW at the momement, so I guess going by the average it's *just barely* populated. Probably 10 people AFK in SM.

[Gehenna.3625]

5 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Just checked and there's 1.62 million k+d in WvW at the momement, so I guess going by the average it's *just barely* populated. Probably 10 people AFK in SM.

It's wrong to count k + d together, since they're the same thing just from a different perspective ...So there's over 810K player kills in this week. Now, hold up, at the time you posted this there were about 10 hours left to reset, So we'll count it as 885K kills for the whole week from reset till reset. That means about 126.5K kils per day.

Now there are 9 matchups (NA + EU) so there are 27 sides total. which means 4.7K kills per server per day which then means 195 kills per server per hour. And that's just over 3 kills per minute per server.

So yeah, 3 kills per minute per server. Not entirely that impressive. 

And I still wouldn't say it's a dead mode, but it doesn't sound so impressive anymore when you break it down. 

 

[Kozumi.5816]

On 1/17/2023 at 5:03 PM, Foeclan.1698 said:

Looks like every server went down a level in terms of population.  You folks doing some tinkering?

Why would anyone want to play an abandoned game mode? There's a lot of other games you can play.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Kozumi.5816

[Random dude.5089]

On 1/19/2023 at 5:37 AM, Alsandar.7420 said:

People keep mentioning that roamers are gone. Mag. The vast majority transferred to Mag.

 

You know all those times your blob stumbled onto roamers… and killed them.

 

Now those roamers are on Mag and they kill your blob.

 

Mag is not a server anymore. It’s a philosophy 

how can you transfer to a full server tho ? im on eu , but i hear so much crying about mag , its not mag fault that other get kitten on , its the reward syteme thats so poor that people don't find it worth dealing with mag and actualy trying , anet said they working on increasing rewards and rewarding people who defend so you we don't find 10 people afk in smc , but when is that day ? only gods know.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

It's wrong to count k + d together, since they're the same thing just from a different perspective ...So there's over 810K player kills in this week. Now, hold up, at the time you posted this there were about 10 hours left to reset, So we'll count it as 885K kills for the whole week from reset till reset. That means about 126.5K kils per day.

Now there are 9 matchups (NA + EU) so there are 27 sides total. which means 4.7K kills per server per day which then means 195 kills per server per hour. And that's just over 3 kills per minute per server.

So yeah, 3 kills per minute per server. Not entirely that impressive. 

And I still wouldn't say it's a dead mode, but it doesn't sound so impressive anymore when you break it down. 

 

I dont didnt post to impress you. The totals is only a number thats interesting in comparison to other weeks. For example the beta weeks when no one was playing... same numbers. Little to no change from any normal week.

The value in practice is a little skewed without taking into account that 2h of prime probably have more kills than the other 22h of the day since 9 kills every minute in an EU matchup at 03:00 sounds like an insane amount of action. Wtf people you're supposed to sleep!

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

It's wrong to count k + d together, since they're the same thing just from a different perspective ...So there's over 810K player kills in this week. Now, hold up, at the time you posted this there were about 10 hours left to reset, So we'll count it as 885K kills for the whole week from reset till reset. That means about 126.5K kils per day.

Now there are 9 matchups (NA + EU) so there are 27 sides total. which means 4.7K kills per server per day which then means 195 kills per server per hour. And that's just over 3 kills per minute per server.

So yeah, 3 kills per minute per server. Not entirely that impressive. 

And I still wouldn't say it's a dead mode, but it doesn't sound so impressive anymore when you break it down. 

 

Actually, even with you omitting the activity discrepancies, 3 kills per minute per server on average is rather high or at least indicative of still a large amount of players participating (if one decides to look past the actual number and put it into context).

3 kills per minute per server is at least 6 players involved in interacting with each other (see you are right that one shouldn't add kills and deaths, but one has to double the players involved if you assume that it takes 1 player to kill another player, which is already not assuming multiple players interacting with each other because you can very well have 3 players kill 1 opposing player or so), on average, all the time, every minute per server (though it can be the same player interacting with each other over and over, which is why this number is indicative of activity and not individual players).

That's 81 kills, aka 162 players, interacting with each other every minute, for every minute of the 1,440 minutes per day, for every minute of the 10,080 minutes in the week. Continuously, all the time given your breakdown.

See you can break something down to make it look small from a numeric perspective, but once put into context you'll fast notice: it can be rather big.

For example: earning 1 dollar/euro per minute might not sound like a lot, but earning that for every single minute, of every single day, of every single week, of every single month, that would probably blow most people's wage by multitudes. Yet still, it "only" adds up to around 525,600 dollar/euro per year while that 1 dollar/euro per minute was such a small number.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[MedievalThings.5417]

On 1/17/2023 at 3:03 PM, Foeclan.1698 said:

Looks like every server went down a level in terms of population.  You folks doing some tinkering?

Mag was open.  Tons of people jumped to an already stacked mag server, who was only open because they were all on alts.  Everyone else opened after the bandwagon.

At this point, mag has a playing population that dwarfs BG at the height of it's "30% more play time than the second most server".  Mag is likely 2 full servers of playing population at this point.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Ubi.4136

[Xenesis.6389]

So that means Mag has 4 map queues 24/7 now right? right?

🍿

 

[Riba.3271]

Like the guy said, everything is relative to nr 1 server. Everyone here is QQing about Maguuma so I bet lot of their PvE/PvP players go bathe in the salt and their activity is sky high.

 

This relativeness and linking system together form server size decay as guild and players have been going to links to save gems and full status is reached easier and easier. So now each main server can fit maybe 3-4 guilds less before they're marked full. That 3-4 guilds is equal to average amount of people that main servers lost to link ones over years

Edited January 20, 2023 by Riba.3271