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There are some problems in the game that if fixed, the game will be much better.


Pakrohk.1524

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I don't know if what I want to write is related to this part of the forum or not, but I didn't know where I can express it, in any case, these problems are game design bugs from my point of view.

I live in Iran (Persia) and I have been playing gw2 with my friends for some time.
Gildwars 2 is truly a masterpiece in its style.
But I ran into a few issues while playing that I felt the need to share with you.

1 - The default keys of the game need to be modified, watching this video will help us to enjoy the game more easily, if the keys of the game are closer to today's games, the game will be much more modern and enjoyable. Please pay attention to this.

2 - At least one mount in the game must be free. Also, the fact that we can't trade with our friends via email is really unfair and conveys the feeling of a pay2win game.
I know this is your company's revenue policy, but you need to remove the feeling of Pay2Win, most of my friends at the beginning of the game feel that the game is Pay2Win and leave the game (but Gildwars 2 is a real masterpiece, it should not be judged by this view)


3 - The game has a very great and interesting story (although buying DLC was really difficult with the weak economy of our country), but this story unfortunately does not have good cinematic videos to show the story path,  please take the ads more seriously and make better cinematics, these things are taken very seriously in Warhammer and World of Warcraft games and that's why they attract so many fans .
The story itself is collected, but the main story of Guildwars is stronger and more powerful.

4 - Installing plugins in Linux is a very difficult task, since steam deck has become a very serious and important platform these days, isn't it better to make it easier for Proton users to install plugins?

Thank you for your attention and time to read this topic.
Please accompany me in this matter.

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1

Anyone can modiy their own keys how they want Anet dont need to touch a thing.

2

Mounts came with the second expansion so no mount need to be free with the core game.

3

This one is a problem but how do you stop people using vpns to get the game as cheap as possible?

4

Plugins are made by players for players so talk to them? 

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4 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

4 - Installing plugins in Linux is a very difficult task, since steam deck has become a very serious and important platform these days, isn't it better to make it easier for Proton users to install plugins?

There are no officially supported plugins even on Windows.  You will need to contact the developers of those plugins for use on Steam Deck.

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7 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:
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1

Anyone can modiy their own keys how they want Anet dont need to touch a thing.

 

Yes, anyone can change it freely, but its default is neither suitable nor modern, many users give up and don't change it because of the game key management method.
Having optimal and modern presets will improve the game.
It also avoids overtime.
If the defaults are good, we only need to change one or more points in the settings, but now we see that we have to spend hours to improve the game keys and this discourages people.

Quote

 


2

Mounts came with the second expansion so no mount need to be free with the core game.

 

Yes, I wrote in my message that Mount will be released with the second extension, but its absence in the game conveys the experience of a Pay2Win game to users who have experienced other games.
Now that Guildwars 2 is on Steam, it should be a competitive game.
(Please note that it is not necessary for all mounts to be free, only one mount must be free, and if the user wants more mounts, it is better to buy the expansion of the game)
 

Quote

 

3

This one is a problem but how do you stop people using vpns to get the game as cheap as possible?

 

What do you mean by VPN?
The text was about in-game movies, not VPN, of course, the problem of VPNs is easily solved in Iran, series like
https://electrotm.org/
If the Gildvars team cooperates with it, the problems will be solved.
As for the cinematic videos in the game, Gildwars 2 can be experienced at any time regardless of the progress of other players, but the ArenaNet team only promotes the last expansion, the presence of attractive and modern cinematic videos in the game makes Attracting more users to the game, which is what Bilzard is currently doing for Wow (whereas the previous expansions of wow are not playable and they are only advertising)

 

Quote

 

4

Plugins are made by players for players so talk to them? 

 

This is true, but if the game launcher officially adds plugin support, it will greatly speed up its development and make it easier to support it on other platforms.

The things I wrote make the game experience better in my opinion, none of them are mandatory for development and are just a game lover's sympathies for Guildwars 2.

 

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1 Default keys are fine and are also the standard of most if not all those type of game, even modern one, it's to the responsibility of the user to modify them if they are not fitting. 

2 Mount aren't needed at all in core tyria, and if you think it is because of other players rushing, having a free base mount (like raptor) won't change a thing. 

And they probably don't know what mean p2w if they think this is p2w... 

And about direct trading, it will destroy the economy, so no. 

3 Well, it may be because I'm into video games since a long time but I always struggle to find any interest into cinematics, especially in ads. They don't show anything meaningful to the game. I'm way more hyped by ads showing actual gameplay with dynamics and choreography. 

4 I don't know this part enough to answer

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5 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

This is true, but if the game launcher officially adds plugin support, it will greatly speed up its development and make it easier to support it on other platforms.

The company won't do that.

First of all, the game engine was never designed to support plugins.  Adding one in would require a business case.  It is likely that no business case exists because it would be a large investment in resources for little return.

Second, the company doesn't want to assume liability for all the current add ins that players make, especially ones like arcdps.

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16 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

1 - The default keys of the game need to be modified, watching this video will help us to enjoy the game more easily, if the keys of the game are closer to today's games, the game will be much more modern and enjoyable. Please pay attention to this.

The default keys are a little old-fashioned. With the new system of saving keybinds and loading them from external files, they could add a few templates with e. g. three basic layouts. So we can pick one of those or create our own and save it. This would not cause much extra work and would benefit certain user-groups for sure. Those templates can be oriented on most commonly used layouts, inspired by those of our competitors.

16 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

2 - At least one mount in the game must be free.

This is a re-occurring complaint and request. We have discussed this topic a lot in the past and had plenty of suggestions with all kinds of scenarios - from player-base side. ANet themselves tried an alternative so far with the Mount Trial. It is obviously bait that shall motivate people to purchase the expansions. In addition, you can rent mounts in. Those however can only be used their specific maps. It is good for testing, but offers little to no convenience. Personally I do not think this will work out in the long-term, so I appreciate you bringing this topic up again. 

16 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

Also, the fact that we can't trade with our friends via email is really unfair and conveys the feeling of a pay2win game.
I know this is your company's revenue policy, but you need to remove the feeling of Pay2Win, most of my friends at the beginning of the game feel that the game is Pay2Win and leave the game (but Gildwars 2 is a real masterpiece, it should not be judged by this view)

Quite a controversial topic. Blocking F2P from mailing items and gold saved us from a massive wave of gold-sellers and other criminals. Having it active would require a lot more and more restrictive moderation of the whole system. From my perspective the whole trading-system is optimized to consume as little resources as technically possible, that is why it is so restrictive.

Another topic is the overhaul of the mailing and contacts-system in general, which is also one of the hot-topics. They have not touched it yet, but over the years it caused a lot of problems. We had several requests, where people asked to define 'friends' better and allowing those tighter relationships to have better access for the mail-system. There may not be a change anytime soon though. Both sections (trading and contacts/mailing) have not changed much since launch, so I guess changing anything there would require a lot of effort. Those are however quite important topics, which should be addressed some day. Thanks for bringing it up.

16 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

3 - The game has a very great and interesting story (although buying DLC was really difficult with the weak economy of our country), but this story unfortunately does not have good cinematic videos to show the story path,  please take the ads more seriously and make better cinematics, these things are taken very seriously in Warhammer and World of Warcraft games and that's why they attract so many fans .
The story itself is collected, but the main story of Guildwars is stronger and more powerful.

Does not have to be a bad thing. As most activities are done in real-time, I think we have a better immersion of our characters into the story itself. Playing a character model, switching to a top quality CGI and turning back to character again always looked rather clunky for me. And those videos are still rather expensive to make. Given the game has no monthly subscription fee

[quote] I would rather see the resources used somewhere else.

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You'll never find a default keyboard layout everyone likes, especially if you base it on what games you imagine they may have played most recently, because that will be different for everyone.

IMO the important thing is that the game lets you change the keybindings to whatever you want. I tend to change it in all games as soon as I start playing them, because I'm left-handed and the defaults are inevitably designed for right-handed players so they're uncomfortable or impossible for me to use.

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I'll only reply to your second point. The mounts are not pay to win. They are pay to play. There is a difference. Do you expect Anet to provide games for free? While paying for development and maintaining the game? How else but to sell their game do you expect them to get money to pay their employees? And as others have mentioned. If you play the free core version of the game, mounts are not needed.

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Yes, anyone can change it freely, but its default is neither suitable nor modern, many users give up and don't change it because of the game key management method.
Having optimal and modern presets will improve the game.
It also avoids overtime.
If the defaults are good, we only need to change one or more points in the settings, but now we see that we have to spend hours to improve the game keys and this discourages people.

There is no way to really quantify how changing preset keys would improve the game or the player experience.  Most players who play games experiment with key binds that work for them.  That usually means modifying the presets anyways.

However, while there is only one default key bind that the game comes with, we can Export and Import key binds if we so desire.  Previously we have had threads on the forum with players talking about optimal layouts for GW2.  Now, they could (if they wanted) share their favorite key binds and allow others to Import them.

So, would you like to share your preferred key bindings so that others have the option to use those instead?

You can Import and Export at Options->Control Options->Page Bottom

I would genuinely be interested in what key binds you think are preferable to use for this game. 

 

Quote

Yes, I wrote in my message that Mount will be released with the second extension, but its absence in the game conveys the experience of a Pay2Win game to users who have experienced other games.
Now that Guildwars 2 is on Steam, it should be a competitive game.
(Please note that it is not necessary for all mounts to be free, only one mount must be free, and if the user wants more mounts, it is better to buy the expansion of the game)

I find this to be really weird, buying an expansion is Pay2Win?  Does that mean that other Mastery Perks like Gliding, which is arguably better than mounts in many ways, should be given with Core for free as well?  What about the Jade Protocols or the numerous other Mastery related progression perks that can be used in Core zones?

Let's take it a step further, you get your free mount, but you don't get the Mastery track to level it up.  Now you have a lesser mount, one that is slower and can't jump as far/high as others.  Is it still Pay2Win if you want the additional Mastery track perks available from buying the expansion?  

13 minutes ago, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

Also, the fact that we can't trade with our friends via email is really unfair and conveys the feeling of a pay2win game.
I know this is your company's revenue policy, but you need to remove the feeling of Pay2Win, most of my friends at the beginning of the game feel that the game is Pay2Win and leave the game (but Gildwars 2 is a real masterpiece, it should not be judged by this view)

Again, buying the game isn't Pay2Win, it's buying the game.  If you haven't bought the game/expansions etc, why would you expect to have access to the paid content?  I think you have misused Pay2Win in this thread and should consider what that actually is.  There are games which make you buy things like armor and weapons for real world money, and without those items, you simply cannot compete.  That is Pay2Win.  In GW2, you do not need the Expansions to play Core, you do not need to spend money at all in order to enjoy the game as presented.

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I’m not convinced any of these would make a priority list for most players. I’d agree with your story point, but cinematics can be resource and cost intensive. I’d rather a better told story first, with cinematics that are decent, but used sparingly. The story has been hit and miss, with some questionable direction over the dragon story. Consistent storytelling is long overdue. Cinematic videos, much less so. I’m not really bothered about what other games do, it’s irrelevant.

Theyve already sorted the mount accessibility. You can get a raptor with either PoF or EoD now. Job done. Giving them to a free account removes their selling point.

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1 hour ago, Shuzuru.3651 said:
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1 Default keys are fine and are also the standard of most if not all those type of game, even modern one, it's to the responsibility of the user to modify them if they are not fitting. 

They are good, but they are not modern and great, and they are more like a copy of wow, which has not been changed for 24 years, modern games such as Elden Ring, New World, Albion Online, Lost Ark use more modern systems in the same style. do
Why does the user have to change all the keys in the game, Gladiwars 2 is thinking a lot about development, so this is also a step forward, watch the video I gave and test it and give your opinion.
 

Quote

 

2 Mount aren't needed at all in core tyria, and if you think it is because of other players rushing, having a free base mount (like raptor) won't change a thing. 

And they probably don't know what mean p2w if they think this is p2w... 

And about direct trading, it will destroy the economy, so no. 

 

How do you say, it doesn't make any changes, it increases the movement speed of the players on the map and eliminates the need to use teleport continuously.

I play with my friends and sometimes items are dropped for me that are not suitable for me and are more suitable for them and vice versa.
If you think that adding this feature will break the trading in the game, this feature is unlocked by purchasing expansions and is currently only disabled (for users who have not purchased an expansion).
I never said it was a P2W game (I emphasize), I never said it, I just said it conveys that feeling.
 

Quote

3 Well, it may be because I'm into video games since a long time but I always struggle to find any interest into cinematics, especially in ads. They don't show anything meaningful to the game. I'm way more hyped by ads showing actual gameplay with dynamics and choreography. 

The joy in the story of Guild Wars 2 is extraordinary, and this fact makes it even stronger. 🤩

 

 

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18 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

Yes, anyone can change it freely, but its default is neither suitable nor modern, many users give up and don't change it because of the game key management method.
Having optimal and modern presets will improve the game.

Thats, like.... your opinion, man. Change the default bindings to what you want them to be and someone else will be inevitably complaining about it. The only way to go about it is to simply rebind the keys however you want them. If rebinding keys in the way you apparently already have readily in your mind is too much of an effort, I'm not sure how you want to play the game.

18 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

2 - At least one mount in the game must be free. Also, the fact that we can't trade with our friends via email is really unfair and conveys the feeling of a pay2win game.
I know this is your company's revenue policy, but you need to remove the feeling of Pay2Win, most of my friends at the beginning of the game feel that the game is Pay2Win and leave the game (but Gildwars 2 is a real masterpiece, it should not be judged by this view)

You don't seem to understand what "pay2win' means. Calling anything you dislike "pay2win" makes no sense.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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34 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:
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You'll never find a default keyboard layout everyone likes, especially if you base it on what games you imagine they may have played most recently, because that will be different for everyone.


This is quite true, but there is a difference, currently the keys are not modern and the user needs to change it for better experience and better management of spells (all keys)
But what if the keys from 6 to 0 are on Z to B?
Or even if the rest of the keys are a little more suitable?
Or if I pay more attention to the action of the camera?
Again, was it necessary for users to customize and change all the keys or just one or more keys just for their habits?
Instead of a modern and suitable design for this game, the current guildwars glades feel more like they were prepared to migrate wow players to a new game, when this could have been just an option in the settings.
 

Quote

IMO the important thing is that the game lets you change the keybindings to whatever you want. I tend to change it in all games as soon as I start playing them, because I'm left-handed and the defaults are inevitably designed for right-handed players so they're uncomfortable or impossible for me to use.

By the way, this could also be an option in the settings, but unfortunately it is not related to this topic and you should open a new topic for it and express your opinions so that the game is always better than before. 🙄 ❤️

 

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1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:


The company won't do that.

First of all, the game engine was never designed to support plugins.  Adding one in would require a business case.  It is likely that no business case exists because it would be a large investment in resources for little return.
Second, the company doesn't want to assume liability for all the current add ins that players make, especially ones like arcdps.

Game has a great api for development on the website, and that is what caused the development of these plugins.
 If this part was an official part of the software, it could be a management of official plugins and a way to prevent the development of unofficial plugins.

Edited by Pakrohk.1524
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5 minutes ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

This is quite true, but there is a difference, currently the keys are not modern and the user needs to change it for better experience and better management of spells (all keys)

You keep repeating "those keys are not modern", but what does it mean? For now it seems it just... means whatever you want. How the default keybinds are set is simply meant to be clear for the new players. Skills going from 1 to 9 is clear. Skills going from 1 to 4 and then bvxhj is not clear.

5 minutes ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

But what if the keys from 6 to 0 are on Z to B?

See, for me that's awful. So no.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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50 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

I'll only reply to your second point. The mounts are not pay to win. They are pay to play. There is a difference. Do you expect Anet to provide games for free? While paying for development and maintaining the game? How else but to sell their game do you expect them to get money to pay their employees? And as others have mentioned. If you play the free core version of the game, mounts are not needed.

I never like the company to have problems in its financial accounts, my intention is only to help and if this thinking is wrong or I expressed it wrongly, I will try to correct it or express it better.

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53 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

There is no way to really quantify how changing preset keys would improve the game or the player experience.  Most players who play games experiment with key binds that work for them.  That usually means modifying the presets anyways.

However, while there is only one default key bind that the game comes with, we can Export and Import key binds if we so desire.  Previously we have had threads on the forum with players talking about optimal layouts for GW2.  Now, they could (if they wanted) share their favorite key binds and allow others to Import them.

So, would you like to share your preferred key bindings so that others have the option to use those instead?

You can Import and Export at Options->Control Options->Page Bottom

I would genuinely be interested in what key binds you think are preferable to use for this game. 

Your message was very helpful, thank you for your reply, can I give all the settings to my friends?

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28 minutes ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

Game has a great api for development on the website, and that is what caused the development of these plugins.
 If this part was an official part of the software, it could be a management of official plugins and a way to prevent the development of unofficial plugins.

No, that's not the kind of API I'm referring to.  The "API" interface for GW2 isn't built into the game engine.  It's just an additional set of servers that serve game data on a delay.  It's a read-only API and does not allow for any sort of modifications of the game data like a real built-in API that supports plugins would.

Edit: I should add that even for games which have plugin APIs, the game companies do not officially support those third-party plugins.  Sometimes the game company makes their own plugins and those are officially supported.

Edited by Chaba.5410
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18 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

1 - The default keys of the game need to be modified, watching this video will help us to enjoy the game more easily, if the keys of the game are closer to today's games, the game will be much more modern and enjoyable. Please pay attention to this.

Most of the keys in the game can be reassigned so I don’t get this complain. This game has more freedom with controls than a lot of other modern games. 

18 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

2 - At least one mount in the game must be free. Also, the fact that we can't trade with our friends via email is really unfair and conveys the feeling of a pay2win game.
I know this is your company's revenue policy, but you need to remove the feeling of Pay2Win, most of my friends at the beginning of the game feel that the game is Pay2Win and leave the game (but Gildwars 2 is a real masterpiece, it should not be judged by this view)

P2W doesn’t really exist in this game. In case you’re new to games, expansions are not P2W either. You can trade with friends using the in-game mail although their are restrictions to reduce RMT.  Expansion features should remain within their respective expansions. Didn’t they make the base raptor available anyway?

18 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

3 - The game has a very great and interesting story (although buying DLC was really difficult with the weak economy of our country), but this story unfortunately does not have good cinematic videos to show the story path,  please take the ads more seriously and make better cinematics, these things are taken very seriously in Warhammer and World of Warcraft games and that's why they attract so many fans .
The story itself is collected, but the main story of Guildwars is stronger and more powerful.

Cinematics don’t make a great story nor are they needed. FF14 is doing incredibly well and it doesn’t have cinematics. 

18 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

4 - Installing plugins in Linux is a very difficult task, since steam deck has become a very serious and important platform these days, isn't it better to make it easier for Proton users to install plugins?

3rd party plugins are use at your risk and not supported. If you have issues, refer to the developers of those. 

Edited by mythical.6315
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1 hour ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I find this to be really weird, buying an expansion is Pay2Win?  Does that mean that other Mastery Perks like Gliding, which is arguably better than mounts in many ways, should be given with Core for free as well?  What about the Jade Protocols or the numerous other Mastery related progression perks that can be used in Core zones?

Let's take it a step further, you get your free mount, but you don't get the Mastery track to level it up.  Now you have a lesser mount, one that is slower and can't jump as far/high as others.  Is it still Pay2Win if you want the additional Mastery track perks available from buying the expansion?  

Expansion is something that should be used to improve the game, not to add features that are prohibited from the user.
As for the mount, I didn't mean that all mounts are free, but for now it gives mounts to users at level 10 and takes it away from the user after 10 hours.
Wouldn't it be better not to get it at all and instead say that if you want more mounts or more mount features, buy the expansion?
 

 

1 hour ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Again, buying the game isn't Pay2Win, it's buying the game.  If you haven't bought the game/expansions etc, why would you expect to have access to the paid content?  I think you have misused Pay2Win in this thread and should consider what that actually is.  There are games which make you buy things like armor and weapons for real world money, and without those items, you simply cannot compete.  That is Pay2Win.  In GW2, you do not need the Expansions to play Core, you do not need to spend money at all in order to enjoy the game as presented.

Meanwhile, I bought the plugins and then wrote this post.
I wrote these for new users. I have been playing for 6 months and have accounts on Steam and Launcher.
Not trading systems with close friends actually slows down the upgrade and you can't tie it to buying the game.
In all games, this possibility is free. Some items are dropped for me in the dungeon, which may not be suitable for my character. On the other hand, it cannot be sold in the game market, why should I give it to NPCs? Why can't I give it to my friends?
Gildwars 2 is not a p2w game and will not be, but the absence of this possibility really gives the game a sense of limitation and conveys the feeling of p2w games.
Buying skins and launching expansions is not enough for game income?

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18 hours ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

At least one mount in the game must be free. 
I know this is your company's revenue policy, but you need to remove the feeling of Pay2Win, most of my friends at the beginning of the game feel that the game is Pay2Win and leave the game (but Gildwars 2 is a real masterpiece, it should not be judged by this view)

I never understood the "please cater to the players who haven't paid anything for the game and provide no revenue or else we'll leave" mentality. They introduced the mount trial to show the neat thing they added with later expansions so that people can decide if they want to spend money. If you give everyone a raptor, that is one less reason for people to get the expansions.

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12 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

P2W doesn’t really exist in this game. In case you’re new to games, expansions are not P2W either. You can trade with friends using the in-game mail although their are restrictions to reduce RMT.  Expansion features should remain within their respective expansions. Didn’t they make the base raptor available anyway?

You cannot trade with your friends without buying the expansion and going through its steps.

 

Quote

Cinematics don’t make a great story nor are they needed. FF14 is doing incredibly well and it doesn’t have cinematics. 

It doesn't make a story, but it makes a good reason for advertising and attracting new players. On the one hand, it connects more players to the game world without playing GW2.

Exactly, FF14 game has many problems for advertising.
(Most of the problems I wrote are also in FF14, but Gildwari is really more interesting and I think it has more possibilities to improve in the future)

Edited by Pakrohk.1524
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9 minutes ago, SuavePuppy.2809 said:

I never understood the "please cater to the players who haven't paid anything for the game and provide no revenue or else we'll leave" mentality. They introduced the mount trial to show the neat thing they added with later expansions so that people can decide if they want to spend money. If you give everyone a raptor, that is one less reason for people to get the expansions.

I had not thought of it like that, it was logical, you are right.🥲💗

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1 hour ago, Pakrohk.1524 said:

Expansion is something that should be used to improve the game, not to add features that are prohibited from the user.
As for the mount, I didn't mean that all mounts are free, but for now it gives mounts to users at level 10 and takes it away from the user after 10 hours.
Wouldn't it be better not to get it at all and instead say that if you want more mounts or more mount features, buy the expansion?
 

 

Meanwhile, I bought the plugins and then wrote this post.
I wrote these for new users. I have been playing for 6 months and have accounts on Steam and Launcher.
Not trading systems with close friends actually slows down the upgrade and you can't tie it to buying the game.
In all games, this possibility is free. Some items are dropped for me in the dungeon, which may not be suitable for my character. On the other hand, it cannot be sold in the game market, why should I give it to NPCs? Why can't I give it to my friends?
Gildwars 2 is not a p2w game and will not be, but the absence of this possibility really gives the game a sense of limitation and conveys the feeling of p2w games.
Buying skins and launching expansions is not enough for game income?

I know they say the base GW2 is free to play, but you're really thinking of it wrong. It is really a huge demo, intended to get players interested in the game so they will pay for it. As demos go, it is enormous (not "try 5 zones"), has no limited play time (not "try for 1 week"), but does come with limitations. Mounts is not one of them. I play regularly on accounts without mounts or gliding, and absolutely do not need them.

The mail system, and the trading post, are also limited, but that is for the protection of the players. I've been in games that have horrible seller spam, and am glad GW2 doesn't have that problem.

The first two expansions (which is a huge amount of value) regularly goes on sale for 1/2 off, $15 US, so surely if it is of interest to someone who is already gaming and thus invested in the hardware and internet, a half-off deal can work?

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