Henchmen - specifically Player character henchmen... think of the possibilities

[Crimthan.9308]

Hi all.

 

I'd like to preface this post by saying I've been an avid Guild Wars player, since 2004 beta of the original, all the way up through now with GW2.

I realize not all aspects of GW1 can be in GW2 (the mixed character classes were the BEST EVER!!!); however, there is a function that

would be just absolutely amazing and would really expand the game, especially if it were in an official expansion.

As the subject says - please incorporate henchmen into the game - specifically like was done during the later expansions in GW1.

Example:  If I have 5 different characters, I can choose when playing any of them (per usual) and also hire henchmen to go with on some journeys.

Better yet - be able to copy 4 of my characters over as henchmen to be used with my main character!

 

To be fully authentic here - the idea randomly hit me while playing another game - Conqueror's Blade.  I began to ask myself

"What is it that GW2 could have to pull players over to it from games with people who like to not only play an RPG character, but also

lead units or a small band?"  Instantly was reminded of GW1.  Not only would it be appealing to those among the CB fan base, it would

also pull people over who like to play classics like Baldur's Gate, etc.

 

This would also cover a seriously lacking element in GW2.  Yes there are roving bands of players in WVW, but they are unrealistically small.

Imagine if instead you have 20 players each leading a band of 5 characters (one main and the other player character henchmen).  You suddenly

have a Company of 100.  If 50 players are playing who are leading 5 each, you have a Battalion.  You start getting warfare on a more immersive 

scale.  The thrill would be exponentially greater than what is already there.  You could:

1.  Have RPG dungeon dive/forest adventure etc created on a larger scale yet be able to play solo if you want with henchmen.

2.  Have large scale PVE warfare elements that are group driven where each player is a leader.

3.  Have WVW on a real warfare scale.

 

Yes, balancing would need to be there, and may require a bit of work, but with even basic marketing - the idea could really sell itself.

 

Seeing what ideas this could ignite... Thank you.

[DeanBB.4268]

This has been suggested numerous times as a search would show. Not gonna repeat the discussion. 

I'd think WvW would be horrible like this. Either the number of actual players would have to be much fewer, or performance would suck. Besides, it is a PvP mode.

And have you actually played any instances with npc's where they actually did something useful?

[Randulf.7614]

Henchman do not fit GW2. Even instances where they could work, the AI and pathing is obstructive to them.

It worked in GW1 because the game was designed around them. Forcing them into a completely different game ten years in, isn’t viable.

[Ausar.9542]

GW1 was not a MMO. Its a Coop based hub game. Thats why that works in that game. This would not work well in a MMO like GW2. As of now in WvW the cap already disables Minis when population is too full, now imagine this with each player in that group with 4 other henchmen in the fight. Would totally crash the game. Again stuff like that works in non MMOs because they dont have lots of players potentially running around in the same space. Games that do it have a hard cap on the number of players in the area, like Coop games or SWTOR/Fallout 76, etc

[kharmin.7683]

Wow, henchmen!  Why hasn't anyone suggested this idea before?

[LSD.4673]

Could we recruit these Henchmen Away From Home?

[Crimthan.9308]

2 hours ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

This has been suggested numerous times as a search would show. Not gonna repeat the discussion. 

I'd think WvW would be horrible like this. Either the number of actual players would have to be much fewer, or performance would suck. Besides, it is a PvP mode.

And have you actually played any instances with npc's where they actually did something useful?

 

 

So according to your approach, are you saying I should reply to one of the older threads where this was brought up?  At that point would you then chastise myself or another person for necroing a thread that existed in the past?

 

Looks like either way, you're going to choose to instantly downplay the idea.  I'm going to choose to bring up the idea fresh, and be chastised, rather than necro an old thread and be chastised anyway.  

 

For yourself or anyone else downplaying the likelihood of pulling this off - got it.  You all don't find the idea favorable for one reason or another.

 

I'm choosing to look at this from one of possibility rather than being negative. 

 

GW2 is similar to some extent as GW1 in that it is INSTANCED rather than truly open world. 

GW1 implemented copying your characters over as henchmen years after the original released.  They pulled it off.

Those items tell us that there IS a possibility that it can be pulled off.

 

That leaves us with the argument against it that it isn't currently in the engine to have henchmen.  There weren't mounts for over the first half decade of GW2 existence.  Yet they pulled it off and added them in... now we have siege turtles that can hold more than one character.

 

So truly, the argument against doing this is "I don't like it."  If you don't like it - cool.  Implementing it would have ZERO impact on those of you who don't like the idea.  Areas could be in the game where it works just like I first mentioned without impacting the other existing areas.

 

There is far more positive reason to implement this, especially to pull in new player base and gain more business, in addition to the game becoming more dynamic and just a great fun factor.

 

Most the responses I'm seeing occur as trolling more than being actually constructive.

[Khisanth.2948]

Yet another person who didn't bother to think about their own suggestion.

It can work if a game is designed to work with it. That has impacts on how encounters are designed. GW2's content is not designed for AI to deal with. Supporting this would require either modifying all the content or having to create bespoke AI routines for every encounter. Aside from any challenge that might exist for writing such AI routines it is also necessary to ensure that the AI is not so good that you are basically adding an official method for botting.

WvW is a PvP game mode. Adding henchmen is completely missing the point. IF WvW has actually reached the point where henchmen are necessary then the simpler solution would be to delete WvW from the game. PvE is not lacking in places where you can fight a lot of NPCs.

[Einsof.1457]

Why not just play gw1? This is a frankly, poorly thought out and borderline idiotic idea. 0/10

Edited January 21, 2023 by Einsof.1457

[Gehenna.3625]

13 minutes ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

So according to your approach, are you saying I should reply to one of the older threads where this was brought up?  At that point would you then chastise myself or another person for necroing a thread that existed in the past?

No you shouldn't reply to older threads about this topic but rather read them and then decide whether or not it's useful to open a new thread on this topic again.

People aren't so much trolling as eye-rolling, like, oh here we go again.

[Crimthan.9308]

1 minute ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Yet another person who didn't bother to think about their own suggestion.

It can work if a game is designed to work with it. That has impacts on how encounters are designed. GW2's content is not designed for AI to deal with. Supporting this would require either modifying all the content or having to create bespoke AI routines for every encounter. Aside from any challenge that might exist for writing such AI routines it is also necessary to ensure that the AI is not so good that you are basically adding an official method for botting.

WvW is a PvP game mode. Adding henchmen is completely missing the point. IF WvW has actually reached the point where henchmen are necessary then the simpler solution would be to delete WvW from the game. PvE is not lacking in places where you can fight a lot of NPCs.

 

You're making assumptions and then basing everything around the assumption rather than the reality.

 

The original design of GW2 had ZERO mounts.  It also did not have any gliding, levitating, etc.  ALL were added in AFTER the original design concept.  The reality is that I did make the considerations that there IS a possibility for the concept to work - part of the inspiration came from the fact that the designers were able to add in items that impact the engine one way or the other years after the original design.

So why wouldn't they be able to do it with henchmen?

Why would adding henchmen completely miss the point of a game mode called World VS World?  You would have leaders leading small squads into battle.  It could be an additional extension of WVW or even be a new game mode entirely.  Warring Factions or whatnot.  Next level - you're not just looking after yourself now.  You're looking after a squad going into battle.  "You're the leader of other players?"  Great - you lead your guard (henchmen) while being the Warlord in command of squad leaders.

 

New expansive game modes.  It doesn't even have to impact what is already there (thus avoiding people botting) and also pathing wouldn't be a problem (that was mentioned earlier) because they new game mode(s) would account for this.

 

I'm actually really surprised at the amount of myopic responses I'm receiving to this.  Has the player base really become this cynical?

[Crimthan.9308]

11 minutes ago, Einsof.1457 said:

Why not just play gw1? This is a frankly, poorly thought out and borderline idiotic idea. 0/10

 

GW1 does not have the physics that GW2 has.

 

Why go backwards when we can move forward and add more options and breadth/depth into GW2?

 

Like in my last response - I'm actually really surprised at the amount of myopic responses I'm receiving to this.  Has the player base really become this cynical?  How can an idea like this be called idiotic?  I wouldn't be surprised that someone making a post in 2012/2013 asking for mounts, was said to have an idiotic idea...

 

Yet here we are...

[Crimthan.9308]

15 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

No you shouldn't reply to older threads about this topic but rather read them and then decide whether or not it's useful to open a new thread on this topic again.

People aren't so much trolling as eye-rolling, like, oh here we go again.

 

I find it very useful to open up this topic, despite naysayers.  Very seldom are innovative ideas brought up without first a crowd of cynics crapping on them.  That's just how it goes.  

I'm more interested in the curiosity it takes to create and develop than the cynicism and lashback it takes to keep things status quo.

[Freya.9075]

How would they go around the lag issue? If you have a map with 100 player cap. And you add henchmen to all these players. How would the server be able to remain playable? There is a reason they hide minis when too many players are there. Their solution would be to make these map caps smaller to make sure it’s playable. I don’t know how many henchmen gw1 had but say one character would count as 5 players with them. It would make the map cap 20 players and rest henchmen. That would not be a good experience for most players who wants to play an mmo.
 

I’ve seen complaints about lag in Lake Doric due to all the minions in clusters. Imagine if you add henchmen. It’s a bad idea. It would also make afk farming easier 

[Einsof.1457]

20 minutes ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

 

GW1 does not have the physics that GW2 has.

 

Why go backwards when we can move forward and add more options and breadth/depth into GW2?

 

Like in my last response - I'm actually really surprised at the amount of myopic responses I'm receiving to this.  Has the player base really become this cynical?  How can an idea like this be called idiotic?  I wouldn't be surprised that someone making a post in 2012/2013 asking for mounts, was said to have an idiotic idea...

 

Yet here we are...

Dude. We have seen this topic a lot over the past 10 years, and it is not unique or interesting. GW1 and GW2 couldn't be any more different. Just stop. If you think the game is too hard that you need AI controlled help, then play a Ranger.

[Sigmoid.7082]

14 minutes ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

Very seldom are innovative ideas brought up without first a crowd of cynics crapping on them

This is half the problem, the idea is in no way innovative. 

[Ausar.9542]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Wow, henchmen!  Why hasn't anyone suggested this idea before?

no need to be rude

[Crimthan.9308]

1 minute ago, Freya.9075 said:

How would they go around the lag issue? If you have a map with 100 player cap. And you add henchmen to all these players. How would the server be able to remain playable? There is a reason they hide minis when too many players are there. Their solution would be to make these map caps smaller to make sure it’s playable. I don’t know how many henchmen gw1 had but say one character would count as 5 players with them. It would make the map cap 20 players and rest henchmen. That would not be a good experience for most players who wants to play an mmo.
 

I’ve seen complaints about lag in Lake Doric due to all the minions in clusters. Imagine if you add henchmen. It’s a bad idea. It would also make afk farming easier 

 

Ok so I did mention this a few times already in this thread - They can create new areas that are created just for that level of gameplay - would not have to be in what is already in existence.  Could be a focal point on an actual new expansion. 

 

To expand upon that, servers can be utilized to focus on those new expansion areas.

 

I've watched this work in Conqueror's Blade.  Literally over 1000 "bodies" vs over 1000 other "bodies" plus the players leading those units.  Hardcore battle going on, trebuchets launching, arrows flying, the whole nine...

 

The maps aren't as large as those in GW2 - so if they were to use a GW2 size map, they could have no more than say, 100 players on each side, each leading 4 other henchmen (that were copied over from their characters).  That's a total of 500 per side.  I realize that's speculation, and it may need to be less than that - it's a start and worth discussing.

[Crimthan.9308]

6 minutes ago, Einsof.1457 said:

Dude. We have seen this topic a lot over the past 10 years, and it is not unique or interesting. GW1 and GW2 couldn't be any more different. Just stop. If you think the game is too hard that you need AI controlled help, then play a Ranger.

 

Nothing to do with difficulty.  It's about leadership and leading small squads rather than just one character.  Not sure how you went to anything around difficulty.

 

Not unique or interesting - your opinion.  

[Crimthan.9308]

7 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

This is half the problem, the idea is in no way innovative. 

 

So adding a leadership factor isn't innovative to you.

What would be innovative to you?

[vares.8457]

1 minute ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

It's about leadership and leading small squads rather than just one character.

I’m fine with playing just one character, I don’t want to lead a small squad. I don’t see the need for henchmen in GW2
 

[Crimthan.9308]

Just now, vares.8457 said:

I’m fine with playing just one character, I don’t want to lead a small squad. I don’t see the need for henchmen in GW2
 

 

No one says you have to.  That's the whole thing - people that want to play with henchmen can in certain areas, and those who don't want to play with henchmen, can continue doing what they're doing.  It would have ZERO impact on someone who doesn't want to lead henchmen.

[vares.8457]

1 minute ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

 

No one says you have to.  That's the whole thing - people that want to play with henchmen can in certain areas, and those who don't want to play with henchmen, can continue doing what they're doing.  It would have ZERO impact on someone who doesn't want to lead henchmen.

And what certain areas would that be? It can’t be in WvW, Open World or PvP because that would be unfair for other players. Fractals and raids would also be difficult or do the henchmen mechanics? 
It’s just not an idea that fits into GW2

[Sobx.1758]

Attempting to substitute players with npcs sounds like a terrible idea. Hopefully they'll never do it -or at least until the game doesn't have enough players to play with then go wild with turning it into a singeplayer game. But now? Nope. And it has nothing to do with "keeping status quo".

Edited January 21, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[vares.8457]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Attempting to substitute players with npcs sounds like a terrible idea. Hopefully they'll never do it -or at least until the game doesn't have enough players to play with then go wild with turning it into a singeplayer game.

Yeah, I prefer to play with real people and not with some NPCs.