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Henchmen - specifically Player character henchmen... think of the possibilities


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3 minutes ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

 

Ok so I did mention this a few times already in this thread - They can create new areas that are created just for that level of gameplay - would not have to be in what is already in existence.  Could be a focal point on an actual new expansion. 

 

To expand upon that, servers can be utilized to focus on those new expansion areas.

 

I've watched this work in Conqueror's Blade.  Literally over 1000 "bodies" vs over 1000 other "bodies" plus the players leading those units.  Hardcore battle going on, trebuchets launching, arrows flying, the whole nine...

 

The maps aren't as large as those in GW2 - so if they were to use a GW2 size map, they could have no more than say, 100 players on each side, each leading 4 other henchmen (that were copied over from their characters).  That's a total of 500 per side.  I realize that's speculation, and it may need to be less than that - it's a start and worth discussing.

I’m not sure it would work on new maps or not as I’m not a programmer and I don’t know much about those things. But even if it did work, I don’t think the market for this is big in gw2. It doesn’t get much support in any topic I’ve read about this so far. It feels more like a niche gameplay like raids.

If they added a new game mode with this I wouldn’t mind it, but I would probably not play it. Adding it as a new map in open world wouldn’t be a good idea I think as most players probably wouldn’t like it. Some players also complain about clutter and visibility as it is. With so many henchmen the clutter would be 5 times more 

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2 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

And what certain areas would that be? It can’t be in WvW, Open World or PvP because that would be unfair for other players. Fractals and raids would also be difficult or do the henchmen mechanics? 
It’s just not an idea that fits into GW2

 

New areas.  They've been adding new areas in since the beginning.  They can continue to do that.  There weren't fractals or raids in the beginning.  There are now.  They can expand the game to have that, and it would have NO negative impact on what you already enjoy doing.

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1 minute ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

 

New areas.  They've been adding new areas in since the beginning.  They can continue to do that.  There weren't fractals or raids in the beginning.  There are now.  They can expand the game to have that, and it would have NO negative impact on what you already enjoy doing.

But why would they add new areas for this? And what do you do in these areas? You run alone with a bunch of NPCs? Sounds terrific

Of course that would have a negative impact on me if they waste resources for this. 

Edited by vares.8457
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3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Attempting to substitute players with npcs sounds like a terrible idea. Hopefully they'll never do it -or at least until the game doesn't have enough players to play with then go wild with turning it into a singeplayer game. But now? Nope. And it has nothing to do with "keeping status quo".

 

No.  I'm not talking about that.  I'm talking new game modes where players lead henchmen alongside other players leading henchmen in a mass battle mode.  There could also be PVE areas for players who want to lead henchmen into areas.  It doesn't have to be One way OR the Other. 

One way AND the Other.

 

Some of you area addressing this like it would impair what you already enjoy or replace what you already enjoy.  It would do neither.  So why would you say No to something that won't negatively impact you?

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3 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

But why would they add new areas for this? And what do you do in these areas? You run alone with a bunch of NPCs? Sounds terrific

Of course that would have a negative impact on me if they waste resources for this. 

 

I'm talking new game modes where players lead henchmen alongside other players leading henchmen in a mass battle mode.  There could also be PVE areas for players who want to lead henchmen into areas.  It doesn't have to be One way OR the Other. 

One way AND the Other.

 

Some of you area addressing this like it would impair what you already enjoy or replace what you already enjoy.  It would do neither.  So why would you say No to something that won't negatively impact you?

 

Guild wars was founded on Player vs Player.  This would enhance Player vs Player and be Warring Faction vs other Warring Faction.  It would be like you're a leader leading a squad of followers and part of a larger army.   This already exists in different ways in other games but GW2 has a lot of potential to push this even further.

Edited by Crimthan.9308
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Just now, Crimthan.9308 said:

So why would you say No to something that won't negatively impact you?

 

3 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

Of course that would have a negative impact on me if they waste resources for this.

 

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1 minute ago, vares.8457 said:

 

 

There are areas in GW2 that I rarely if ever go to (like raids and fractals).  I don't want to stop them from existing just because *I* don't want to use them, nor do I consider them a waste of resources.  That would be incredibly selfish of me. 

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6 minutes ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

No.  I'm not talking about that.  I'm talking new game modes where players lead henchmen alongside other players leading henchmen in a mass battle mode. 

Are you talking about new game modes though? None of these:

4 hours ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

The thrill would be exponentially greater than what is already there.  You could:

1.  Have RPG dungeon dive/forest adventure etc created on a larger scale yet be able to play solo if you want with henchmen.

2.  Have large scale PVE warfare elements that are group driven where each player is a leader.

3.  Have WVW on a real warfare scale.

somehow sound like "new modes", it's basically "make new maps for existing modes but bigger and let me substitute most players with npcs".

 

6 minutes ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

Some of you area addressing this like it would impair what you already enjoy or replace what you already enjoy.  It would do neither.  So why would you say No to something that won't negatively impact you?

And going with "there's already what you want to play" approach: are you sure you're not just looking for an rts game? Because it sounds like you're looking for rts game. (or baldur's gate-type of rpg)

Edited by Sobx.1758
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3 minutes ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

There are areas in GW2 that I rarely if ever go to (like raids and fractals).  I don't want to stop them from existing just because *I* don't want to use them, nor do I consider them a waste of resources.  That would be incredibly selfish of me. 

Raids and fractals are already in the game and they are not a waste of resources, your idea is. It just doesn’t fit in the game, it sounds quite boring as well. 
But how long is it since last raid wing or last fractal? 
 

Edited by vares.8457
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47 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

How would they go around the lag issue? If you have a map with 100 player cap. And you add henchmen to all these players. How would the server be able to remain playable? There is a reason they hide minis when too many players are there. Their solution would be to make these map caps smaller to make sure it’s playable. I don’t know how many henchmen gw1 had but say one character would count as 5 players with them. It would make the map cap 20 players and rest henchmen. That would not be a good experience for most players who wants to play an mmo.
 

I’ve seen complaints about lag in Lake Doric due to all the minions in clusters. Imagine if you add henchmen. It’s a bad idea. It would also make afk farming easier 

The same way you handle the rest of the suggestion. Wishful thinking.

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Just caught this thread.  I understand the merit of the ideas presented by the OP.  I've read through it all and frankly don't understand why there is that much opposition against a game idea where it looks like (not sure if I'm mistaken) you get to duplicate some of your characters into henchmen, and use them in a warfare scenario alongside others doing the same.  This is Guild WARS right?  Like I can see guilds where the players are the officers, in charge of henchmen (soldiers) fighting other guilds?  Makes sense to me.

Really sounds like the best of all worlds from Dynasty Warriors, GW1, Baldur's Gate, and Conqueror's Blade but using the created classes and world in GW2 and creating new game modes (that sorta happens when you have new expansions, right?).  When I first heard the name "Guild Wars" the thoughts that came to mind actually were close to what the Op is describing.  Factional warfare...leading troops.  Pretty sure he is right about those aspects with mounts, fractals etc being added well after the release of the game.  So why wouldn't or couldn't this happen?  All the friction just sounds like a lot of clamor over something that isn't even a bad idea... all these people do not represent all the players in the game or what they want.  They just represent themselves...

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1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Are you talking about new game modes though? None of these:

somehow sound like "new modes", it's basically "make new maps for existing modes but bigger and let me substitute most players with npcs".

 

And going with "there's already what you want to play" approach: are you sure you're not just looking for an rts game? Because it sounds like you're looking for rts game. (or baldur's gate-type of rpg)

No.

Have you played Samurai Warriors, Conqueror's blade or Guild Wars 1?

Nothing to do with an RTS.

Players are not substituted for NPCs.  Players are leading small squads of NPCs - NPCs that can be copied from their already made characters into henchmen (like GW1 did) to have larger scale warfare.  

If this idea wasn't innovative at all I wouldn't have to keep explaining it or breaking it down.  I can see most aren't getting it.

Just like in all the expansions that have come before, the expanded game would host these elements in those areas and wouldn't have to interfere with game play already there.

 

In answer to Vares - I've tried fractals and raids and found them incredibly tedious and boring.  I like GW1 and GW2 more for the PVP/warfare elements than the PvE ones.  The difference is I didn't create opposition against people wanting their pve elements.

I'm requesting that people have an open mind here.  

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26 minutes ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

No.

Have you played Samurai Warriors, Conqueror's blade or Guild Wars 1?

This is not [another game].

26 minutes ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

Players are not substituted for NPCs.  Players are leading small squads of NPCs - NPCs that can be copied from their already made characters into henchmen (like GW1 did) to have larger scale warfare.  

Players are substituted for npcs, they have to be or you're literally saying every players needs to play with their own group of legal bots to fill the available spaces. Unless those npcs spaces are the same spaces potential players can fill. At that point... npcs take up player space which means you are literally replacing players with npcs.

Want to play with a squad without replacing players with npcs? Play in player squads.

26 minutes ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

If this idea wasn't innovative at all I wouldn't have to keep explaining it or breaking it down.  I can see most aren't getting it.

Nothing you said somehow explained anything I wasn't already expecting it to be, so.. no, wouldn't say it's innovating, it's just an attempt to replace players with party of legal bots. No, thanks.

26 minutes ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

I like GW1 and GW2 more for the PVP/warfare elements than the PvE ones.

So play pvp/wvw and be an active part of a group consisting of actual players.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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Anything which leads GW2 down the same road as GW1, aka decline of grouping and death of group play due to automization gets a strict:"no thank you" from me.

 

I loved GW1 and the heroes (henchmen not as much) there. I also played it mostly like a single player game.

 

Most players I got to know over the years in this franchise who did enjoy the social aspects of GW1 would pin point 1 moment in time for when the social (and/or multiplayer) aspect of that game died: the additon of heroes and the eventual following abandoning of the game after.

 

Not something I would want for GW2 yet.

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GW1 and GW2 are not similar. GW1 was designed to be a solo game as well. It’s a solo game, but the way heroes and henchies were built in allowed for multiplayer too.

GW2 was specifically designed not to go down that route. Even from concept, it’s designed to be players cooperating around an open world. Pathing in instances is often broken for NPCs, so relying on henchman would mean extremely large, resource intensive makeovers.

The overriding factor though is that there is no reason to have them. The game is not difficult enough in story mode and open world has actual players working together, which is vastly superior than henchmen. GW1 did not have players outside of outposts. It’s a massive difference.

Gliders and mounts (the latter was always intended to be added to the game) have a specific design function to enable wider maps, fast travel and unique vertical design alongside horizontal progression. All of which work with the core pillar of design that has players working together and not AI.

Henchman would need to justify extensive resources and UI rebuilding by:

- fill a gap the game needs. Currently no gap exists 

- bring something new and unique whilst respecting the core design philosophy of player-player interaction

- bring in revenue (prob easy to monetise)

- cause no performance issues in open world and block no players from entering a server. Certain AI like minis are already hidden for example in heavy population maps

- be available in a significant portion of the game world (not really possible in open world)

- be able to utilise in game mechanics 

- justify itself over other content which would need to be cut in favour of it. This is a massive undertaking. Huge. Let’s say we had a choice between say henchman, housing and ships. All popular features. All major, arguably non-essential features, which tick various points highlighted above. I’d be very unhappy to see henchman over those or anything else since they bring nothing whatsoever to game.

I’m not trolling your idea nor telling you to post in an old thread, but there is nothing new presented here. If you can genuinely be the first to suggest a reason which fits the game, then there is discussion to be had. But so far, none exists that fits the ideas and principles of GW2. And to be honest, I don’t want to see GW2 wander any further from those ideas and principles like it has over the past couple of years.

I want more players together in harmony in open world, in instances and then beating the holy skritt out of each other in pvp/wvw. Henchman discourage that.

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3 hours ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

 

Nothing to do with difficulty.  It's about leadership and leading small squads rather than just one character.  Not sure how you went to anything around difficulty.

 

Not unique or interesting - your opinion.  

I hope you find the game you're looking for. This ain't it

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10 hours ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

 

Nothing to do with difficulty.  It's about leadership and leading small squads rather than just one character.  Not sure how you went to anything around difficulty.

 

Not unique or interesting - your opinion.  

Well if you want that then get a commander tag advertise what your doing and lead players arund.

9 hours ago, Crimthan.9308 said:

 

No.  I'm not talking about that.  I'm talking new game modes where players lead henchmen alongside other players leading henchmen in a mass battle mode.  There could also be PVE areas for players who want to lead henchmen into areas.  It doesn't have to be One way OR the Other. 

One way AND the Other.

 

Some of you area addressing this like it would impair what you already enjoy or replace what you already enjoy.  It would do neither.  So why would you say No to something that won't negatively impact you?

You do understand that impementing your idea take resources right?

Those resources would be better spent elsewere.

And yes I was against mounts in this game since we already had waypoints.

Have you seen how many fewer waypoints we got on new maps after they introduced mounts?

I would have been happy with no mounts but not getting them now when they butcherd the waypoints would make this game a slog to play through.

 

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4 hours ago, Ausar.9542 said:

I wouldnt mind the henchman system added to Story Instances for controlling the squad in the Living Story. That could be cool

somebody gave me the confusion face. So you need clarification? 

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15 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Henchman do not fit GW2. Even instances where they could work, the AI and pathing is obstructive to them.

It worked in GW1 because the game was designed around them. Forcing them into a completely different game ten years in, isn’t viable.

Um  pet pathing works actually good enough; i dont see that problem, but Henchman were always a little gimmicky imo. I can’t imagine that it would pull an amount of players that it would amortize the development 

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9 minutes ago, asket.5674 said:

Um  pet pathing works actually good enough; i dont see that problem, but Henchman were always a little gimmicky imo. I can’t imagine that it would pull an amount of players that it would amortize the development 

please go to an spvp custom match with a friend and have them sick a melee pet on you and all you do is run in circles and see how many times the pet land a hit on you.

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