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Celestial Challenge is the Antithisis of GW2 Design


rrusse.7058
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Besides being buggy and unclear how a "winner" is decided for a challenge, the fact that there is a "winner" at all is not what this game is about at all.

Yes it is in place to prevent players from simply AFK farming it as that is already an issue with LW episodes from older seasons, but are we honestly punishing players because the Chicken Ring they happened to be standing in turned red again for 1 second longer that another person even though you were standing where you were supposed to the entire time.

What happened to respecting the time and effort a player puts in? There is nothing else in this game that does this besides simply failing a raid or Strike over and over again as those are decided by a win/fail state alone.

It's absurd that there are still so many bugs throughout the entire thing.

- Rabbit Challenge not activiating the gate when running through it.

- Snake Orbs not being picked up at all even when passed through.

- Sticky surfaces during Dragon.

- Horse tornadoes ignoring I-frames and dodges.

The list goes on so I think you get my point. Players even see that there isn't much to the event besides "It gives you gold."

Yes that's great, but at the cost of rewarding some players more or for glitching out less plus buggy game design? Is that what we want? Shouldn't we expect better than "It gives you gold."?

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It is a bit strange that other festivals reward player cooperation and this is the only festival to only reward a specific winner. I mean, everyone gets loot, but they have to sweat to get the most loot. Its especially frustrating that as a support giving out boons for example, you're actually helping someone do better than you.

 

It would be like if your mount boosts in races affected other players instead of you. The game is historically altruistic but also rewarding for altruism so this is kind of out of place overall.

Edited by Mariyuuna.6508
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Funny thing about Celestial Challenge is when people actually AFK in it, it will reward the contestants with extra points for the chests. This is because you need to fill the bar to get to the end of the Challenge, where the chests will spawn. If each of the challenges didn't receive extra blessing from people completing the challenge, it will add more challenges, until the main bar is completely filled and that means extra points for everyone. But if no one doing it at all, the challenges will loop over and over, potentially forever. Or at least until people start working on the challenges again.

 

I have an idea on how to fix this.They can make it so there will be 6 fixed rounds of randomized challenges. Each time the challenge bar is completely filled, every contributors will get two points. Otherwise it will be just one for the contributors.  If they still need to have top contributor thingy, they can give the top contributor some extra Little Lucky Envelopes instead.

 

This way people can work together to get every chests open.

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2 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

It is a bit strange that other festivals reward player cooperation and this is the only festival to only reward a specific winner. I mean, everyone gets loot, but they have to sweat to get the most loot. Its especially frustrating that as a support giving out boons for example, you're actually helping someone do better than you.

 

It would be like if your mount boosts in races affected other players instead of you. The game is historically altruistic but also rewarding for altruism so this is kind of out of place overall.

I agree completely. When you said that it got me thinking how it is actually detrimental to do something like say, revive a downed player. This event is the only instance where I feel "Oh no, another player. Great, now we have to fight over rewards."

1 hour ago, Lightseeker.7839 said:

I have an idea on how to fix this.They can make it so there will be 6 fixed rounds of randomized challenges. Each time the challenge bar is completely filled, every contributors will get two points. Otherwise it will be just one for the contributors.  If they still need to have top contributor thingy, they can give the top contributor some extra Little Lucky Envelopes instead.

I like the sound of nw adjustments to improve  the event. Sorry if I am not understanding correctly, but how does prevent AFK farming the event if it is something like Ox Challenge?

An AFKer could get "credit" if they are able to tag any of the mobs by being in the aggro area no?

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1 hour ago, rrusse.7058 said:

I like the sound of nw adjustments to improve  the event. Sorry if I am not understanding correctly, but how does prevent AFK farming the event if it is something like Ox Challenge?

 

An AFKer could get "credit" if they are able to tag any of the mobs by being in the aggro area no?

 

They will get credit if they managed to kill something while they are AFK. If they don't kill anything or even gather something. They won't get credits at all. And I think giving boons won't work either, unless you hit a mob (But I can't really confirm it.). AFK minion necro, or turret engi would still kinda work though...

 

If Anet can put something like Inactivity timer, this could help. But from what I see it only exists in PvP-like game modes where there are teams. (Example: Winter Wonderland JP during wintersday)

 

Another way is by increasing the goal requirement. But this will turn the AFKer into grievers instead. And there are no way to kick them out the area.

 

At the current state, someone just need to kill one thing, grab a mote to get a participation and then they can just not do anything afterwards, and still get a point.

 

And also AFK-ing in Celestial challenge in the current state is actually not really a bad thing to have. It allows more challenges to appear, meaning more points for everyone. So in a way it's actually benefecial? If on a room with no AFK-er you will usually get 5 points (Assuming you never get the top contributor at all) With one AFK-er, you can get 6 points instead, sometimes even 7 points.

 

The worst case will happen with the rework idea though, everyone will just have 6 points with AFK-er present, if they can't fulfill the goal requirement.

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I am just happy that I'll have the achievement points done soon. Already only doing it the minimum amount that is required. (For the last weekly a lot on monday. And now daily 1-3 times to get the new daily where sometimes the champ kill challenge can help.)

I think for certain stuff it choses randomly. Does not measure all the stuff like damage or how long you stood into a circle. I mostly ignore it. Since I came to the conclusion that the additional reward is not really worth that much for me. When tying to avoid to have to fight other champs (outside the festival) to complete the 3/3 for the other festivals it seems to be better to actively complete the challenges faster though. Last week I will play low effort - alt-tabbing out or looking up stuff at the smartphone while waiting to max the last weekly to 100/100. (Since no other interesting activities are there. Dragon Ball not rewarding weekly progress and the other stuff also just the boring adventures you can repeat where you need to actively play.)

Edited by Luthan.5236
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@Lightseeker.7839

I see, that is a possible work around and it doesn't stop AFKing completely, but doesn't completely reward it either. I agree that the worse case scenario would be that an actual player ends up trapped in a room that is literally all AFKers which is not ideal.

I believe you are right that at the very least adding an inactivity timer or some means of detecting that a player has not moved from their x,y,z position in a certain amount of time, then they are likely not playing.

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On 1/24/2023 at 3:14 PM, soulknight.9620 said:

Im a simple guy, when i see a thief in there i go afk, no point in trying to compete with shortbow thief since 8/12 trials are movement based. 

I found this is another flaw of the Celestial Challenge, certain elite specs or professions can easily dominate the events, if they got amazing mobility, also can cleave and have good single target damage, they can easily be top contributor on nearly every events.

 

So It can get pretty one sided at times.

 

But yeah, I guess you can just relax if it got one sided. Don't try to compete, just do it at your own pace. Let the others zoom around and be busy 😉

Edited by Lightseeker.7839
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7 hours ago, Lightseeker.7839 said:

[...]

 

But yeah, I guess you can just relax if it got one sided. Don't try to compete, just do it at your own pace. Let the others zoom around and be busy 😉

 

Heh, I did not even know some players would play this competitively. 😄
I just go in, play as much as I need for my reward and get out. 😛

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14 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

 

Heh, I did not even know some players would play this competitively. 😄
I just go in, play as much as I need for my reward and get out. 😛

You get up to double rewards for playing it competitively.

Edited by Mariyuuna.6508
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I mean, you ARE working together. Every successful gate, gathering an orb, or killing something (depending on the challenge) gives progress to filling the bar.   It’s just the biggest contributor gets a bonus. Competing for the bonus makes people work harder and the event finishes faster.  Everyone who contributes gets the base reward. 

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The rewards are pretty bad anyway so I dont do it tbh, but I agree the winner messages are pretty random and many of the challenges are buggy or favor a specific classes &/or builds. For me I just wish it was rewarding enough to be similar per hr returns as a meta or fractals cause then allot more people would do them and it might actually be fun.

 

The TIme delays between events + number of events takes like 10-20 min seems like for ~1g in profit so it seems like its what 5-10g an hr activity? Just dont bother.

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On 1/22/2023 at 5:30 AM, rrusse.7058 said:

Celestial Challenge is the Antithisis of GW2 Design

Did you mean antithesis?

I disagree, as competitive content has always been a part of GW2 (PvP/WvW, mount races etc).

Also, I think the Celestial Challenge was a fun activity when it was still new, but it does get boring after a while. I could only bring myself to do this once this year for the annual achievement. It's a shame they don't add new challenges.

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1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Did you mean antithesis?

I disagree, as competitive content has always been a part of GW2 (PvP/WvW, mount races etc).

Also, I think the Celestial Challenge was a fun activity when it was still new, but it does get boring after a while. I could only bring myself to do this once this year for the annual achievement. It's a shame they don't add new challenges.

I think it can be fun too but it starts to feel drawn out and it gets stale from time delays.

I guess some challenges like rabbit can get old after a few rounds, plus, all the little bugs, and the feeling that Im arguably wasting my time unless its just super fun since I dont find it that rewarding gold/item wise.

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The added rewards for playing better (1 more stack) ... are not worth it though. Especially if you feel like you are not getting top placement for sure. Had some fun where others played worse and I got the top placement like 3 or 4 times out of 5/6 and it felt motivating to try more then.

And yes: We have competitive stuff in other areas as well. Usually not too focuse don rewards + lengthy stuff though. Some quick race (Sanctum Sprint): Competitive ... but fast and not too focused on rewards. (People even forget about it since it is not really advertised. Not even a daily for it at the festival where it is associated with.)

Dragon Ball? Well ... here at least team play and it can feel fun (if you are not getting pwnd constantly or getting team swapped after a player leaves when youre team pwns early).

The challenge is just PvE grind ... taking longer when you play less good. (If focusing only on getting the last chest multiple times quickly.) Where there is incentive to just let others do the work ... by contributing a minimum amount ... then idling doing something else while watching the screen every now and then. This does not exist in that many other game modes. (At least not with a auto kick featue starting early or an afk rule against farming afk ... though there you technically are allowed to be at the keyboard and respond to a GM if needed ... without having to press keys regularly..)

Edited by Luthan.5236
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Personally, I find the competitive aspect to be a bit of fun that's different to the normal approach (it is a holiday event, after all), but in the greater scheme of things, it's not really a big deal if you don't get that extra point. The main reward is the central chest and the daily. Getting a couple of extra chests on the side is nice, but I don't sweat it when I miss out. Heck, the best reward/time ratio is probably getting in when the final challenge is half done, participating enough to be eligible for the main chest, getting it, and then getting out so you can do something else.

It probably could be improved if they gave the extra reward to, say, the top three, so it's less likely to have situations where the you're just a hair behind someone else and miss out entirely or where you just give up because you know you're not going to catch up to the one in the lead. But in overall effect it's no worse than farming events where you're basically competing to tag the pinatas mobs before they die, it's just a bit more visible.

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Receiving less reward than someone else is not "punishing" players, it's rewarding another player more. Punishing would be if you were forfeit or got reduced rewards. Given that the base reward is 1 stack each, that's hardly the case.

Honestly, the event, even with all its bugs, is rather well made for the short intermezzo it is supposed to provide (even if it does  grow stale after many years). It rewards every player equally while it incentivizes players to try to contribute more and faster by danging a reward increase.

Instead of being envious of the player who "won" a round, be glad they contributed as much as they did to move the event along faster. It's also really not that hard to "win". I've gotten 12 stacks on power mirage with merely focus and blink slotted (and yes, playing a mobility thief build will be difficult to beat).

I never 1nce thought: oh that other player, how dare he get more loot than me. On the contrary, in those games where 2-3 players were competing for the top spot, I usually always thought: good game and glad this went so fast, even if I didn't get to "win" the round.

Edited by Cyninja.2954
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I've learned to manage expectations for this event, and many others.  I enjoy the event, even if sometimes it gets a little long, as the festival progresses.  But since it is a once a year event, I like it.  I always participate in each of the events and do as well as I can on the character.  It's a pleasant surprise when I occasionally manage to pull out a top contributor for a round.  I have never once felt upset or jealous of someone else, or many someones, getting more done than I can.  It moves the event along quicker.  

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The only advantage to winning each round is another fragment out of 8 to get the "privilege" to buy another nearly full price ticket. The rewards themselves are as good as chests you find in PvE. Rewarding people for over excelling slightly more is not that much of a difference. Getting the big chest is the important one.

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