Change in Community Behavior Lately?

[Khisanth.2948]

Has anyone who thinks Steam has made a big difference actually looked at the numbers? https://steamcharts.com/app/1284210 while also keeping in mind that some of those are just existing players who switched over to Steam.

[Cuks.8241]

10 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Has anyone who thinks Steam has made a big difference actually looked at the numbers? https://steamcharts.com/app/1284210 while also keeping in mind that some of those are just existing players who switched over to Steam.

Its not an insignificant number though. This is logged in players at a given time point, correct? If an average player plays an hour a day (I have no clue what the actual average is, probably even less) that is quite a decent amount of players. 

[Nephalem.8921]

On 1/25/2023 at 11:53 PM, KawsMeCal.5923 said:

I've been playing for about half a year now after returning and the community has been super nice and wholesome for the most part and only rarely had anyone that acted out in a severely negative way. The worst things to deal with outside of the occasional rude player or idiot was some portal troll or something which isn't even a big deal. Recently, however, it seems every day joining fractals I've been met with the most vile kinds of people acting so mighty on people and getting mad if they aren't playing perfectly or using pots for normal dailies or whatever it is. I had a group yesterday advertising normal T4s run push CM and get mad when we didn't pull it off first try when suddenly asked to do CM when the post was just normal dailies. Another posted for DPS and then got upset that the DPS they got wasn't Alac DPS when they asked just for DPS. People are getting angry over such small things now and the community used to be so nice and forgiving. Is this a common thing that it comes and goes with the festivals or are people just so much more jaded suddenly and acting mightier than thou? 

Maybe you are the problem?

Not even using pots in T4, no food either. That means -25% dmg. -35% effective hp minimum, probably more because of weird scaling with prot. There is no reason to not use them. They are free with recs.

Use arc, see your performance. Maybe there is a reason for those behaviours. For the most part pugging fractals without high kp gates is just borderline impossible now and even those are not enough to protect me from players who can not be bothered to read their traits.

T4s are supposed to be high end content. They are not currently and degraded into open world level play. Asking for pots in t4 is not vile, asking for some class knowledge is not vile either.

"Aren't playing perfectly" means a bit low dps but i have never met someone getting upset over that. This term is usually rephrasing "are borderline useless" used for dps doing support level dps which are the only kind of players getting performance comments and sometimes find their way into t4 or cm fractals.

Nobody is entitled to do t4 fractals. Good players should not have to accept that their usual 40min clear takes 1h30 now because "just having fun" means semi afk watching netflix somehow instead of playing the game now.

The community did not change but the "elitist" and "open world farmer" collide much more often now. either in t4, raids or strikes. You should have tried lvl 50 fractals in 2013, those were far more toxic. Guards were kicked for not knowing when to use wor then. 

 

[Vayne.8563]

6 hours ago, KawsMeCal.5923 said:

Not sure how many times I have to state that it wasn't just two times, but it keeps being brought up like that's what I said. Pointless to keep stating things if nobody bothers to read them.

  

I asked if multiple people experienced a flow of ups and downs all at once or if it's just randomly bad RNG I got paired up with a TON of kitten rude people all at once suddenly. If multiple people also encountered a huge uptick in toxic behaviors, that would be interesting to know.

I haven't experienced it personally, but I don't pug that much. I have had a bunch of pugs in raids that I haven't had the experience with.  Maybe one out of every 20, 30 times we get a pug in our raid group, we have even the slightest whiff of an issue.  It doesn't mean it's not happening. But you wouldn't even get enough responses i this thread to give you an indication.

 

I'll put it another way. People who are generally fine with what's going on might reply, people who aren't fine might be more likely to reply because they're annoyed by their experience.  But even then each person who replies, we don't know if that person is legimately having an issue or they themselves are part of an issue because of how they act.  I know people who are super sensitive, and when they tell me someone said something that offended them, I tend to take it with a grain of salt, because I know both parties and if they're offended it doesn't mean something offensive was said.  I also know people who don't listen and just do what they want in a group, and then get annoyed when people say something, even if they say it kindly.  

 

So let's say 20 people responded saying they all had dozens of bad experiences.  You're looking for validation of what you feel is going on. All you're going to get is 20 random people who you don't really know, validating your experience.  There might be thousands who don't have that experience, and we've heard from some in this thread already.  I haven't had that experience, but that doesn't invalidate your experience. You've experienced what you've experienced. 

 

I remember running dungeons back in the day and a ton of LFG posts saying no ranger, no necro. I never joined those groups, because I knew those people probably had very specific expectations over all that I might or might not understand. I joined more casual groups, or made my own. Or more often just ran with people I knew. Guildies and friends.

 

We all want our feelings validated, but getting that validation on a forum just leads to confirmation bias. Of course you'll find people who share your experience. And of course there will be people who don't.  And it won't really prove anything either way.

 

[Lanfear De Noir.9127]

On 1/26/2023 at 5:27 PM, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

(am always curious what happened to these games that causes people to migrate over to GW2, doesn't seem like Lost Ark was out that long).

Lost Ark was released in Korea 4 years ago... so its not a new game. Just new to the West.

 

GW2 is an enjoyable game, with loads of content that isnt repetitive like Lost Ark... and also not full of gatcha systems that bleed you dry. Plus all the skins, mounts and items are amazing (even though you dont have access to all of them, you have to wait). Lost Ark/AGS have been drip feeding Lost Ark players skins and people have been crying out for skins.  

GW2 also has all of the classes available from the get go... Lost Ark/AGS is drip feeding classes as well as skins. Some classes that were part of the original game in Korea from the start, have only just been released in the Western version.

 

Any problems like the game crashing, getting booted from dungeons etc makes it hard to play... Then there is all the bots that have completely taken over the game.

 

All in all, people are just fed up.

 

So here I am, playing GW2 and enjoying every moment of it.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Lanfear De Noir.9127

[Azureus.5428]

When a game becomes easy enough thanks to powecreep and nerfing of the content, the empty-brained tend to gather.

[draxynnic.3719]

21 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

 

Not even using pots in T4, no food either. That means -25% dmg. -35% effective hp minimum, probably more because of weird scaling with prot. There is no reason to not use them. They are free with recs.

Ohhhh man. At least half the time I find myself thinking that I don't know why I'm performing so poorly in the first fractal I do, the answer turns out to be 'forgot to use potions'.

Food you can potentially do without if you're not doing CMs, but potions just increase the smoothness of your runs so much that not using them for the sake of a few extra fractal relics is a false economy.

[robertthebard.8150]

On 1/27/2023 at 1:17 PM, Nephalem.8921 said:

Maybe you are the problem?

Not even using pots in T4, no food either. That means -25% dmg. -35% effective hp minimum, probably more because of weird scaling with prot. There is no reason to not use them. They are free with recs.

Use arc, see your performance. Maybe there is a reason for those behaviours. For the most part pugging fractals without high kp gates is just borderline impossible now and even those are not enough to protect me from players who can not be bothered to read their traits.

T4s are supposed to be high end content. They are not currently and degraded into open world level play. Asking for pots in t4 is not vile, asking for some class knowledge is not vile either.

"Aren't playing perfectly" means a bit low dps but i have never met someone getting upset over that. This term is usually rephrasing "are borderline useless" used for dps doing support level dps which are the only kind of players getting performance comments and sometimes find their way into t4 or cm fractals.

Nobody is entitled to do t4 fractals. Good players should not have to accept that their usual 40min clear takes 1h30 now because "just having fun" means semi afk watching netflix somehow instead of playing the game now.

The community did not change but the "elitist" and "open world farmer" collide much more often now. either in t4, raids or strikes. You should have tried lvl 50 fractals in 2013, those were far more toxic. Guards were kicked for not knowing when to use wor then. 

 

How does that work, exactly?  If you can't complete w/out having a high KP, how did you get the high KP?  It would seem to me that hyperbole is a bad way to advance a point.  It's fairly obvious that people were completing this content w/out having these high KPs, otherwise they wouldn't have them.

[Krzysztof.5973]

8 minutes ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

How does that work, exactly?  If you can't complete w/out having a high KP, how did you get the high KP?  It would seem to me that hyperbole is a bad way to advance a point.  It's fairly obvious that people were completing this content w/out having these high KPs, otherwise they wouldn't have them.

You run with no-kp/low kp groups that are on similar level as you are. People ran this type of content on release, learning, wiping, trying to get better. New players can team up with each other. You are not entitled to join high-kp groups and their time. Experienced players do not want to do re-runs of their progression from back in the day, every single time they step into fractals today. 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

How does that work, exactly?  If you can't complete w/out having a high KP, how did you get the high KP?  It would seem to me that hyperbole is a bad way to advance a point.  It's fairly obvious that people were completing this content w/out having these high KPs, otherwise they wouldn't have them.

It works by doing what those high end players did when the content was new;  By posting their own LFGs seeking like-minded individuals who are about the same skill level to get through the content.

[robertthebard.8150]

4 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

You run with no-kp/low kp groups that are on similar level as you are. People ran this type of content on release, learning, wiping, trying to get better. New players can team up with each other. You are not entitled to join high-kp groups and their time. Experienced players do not want to do re-runs of their progression from back in the day, every single time they step into fractals today. 

 

4 hours ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

It works by doing what those high end players did when the content was new;  By posting their own LFGs seeking like-minded individuals who are about the same skill level to get through the content.

Well, I can answer both of these in one post!  The poster I quoted said "for the most part, pugging T4 fractals w/out HKP gates is just borderline impossible now".  Neither of these replies addresses my question.  I did progression raiding, I know how it works, but that's not what the poster is trying to claim.  Either it's a pita, welcome to the wonderful world of pugging, or it's borderline impossible.  Since I'm sure there were T4 completions before people had high KPs, I'm going to have to go with the former, because if the latter were true, almost nobody would have the high KPs.

[KawsMeCal.5923]

On 1/27/2023 at 2:17 PM, Nephalem.8921 said:

Maybe you are the problem?

Not even using pots in T4, no food either. That means -25% dmg. -35% effective hp minimum, probably more because of weird scaling with prot. There is no reason to not use them. They are free with recs.

Use arc, see your performance. Maybe there is a reason for those behaviours. For the most part pugging fractals without high kp gates is just borderline impossible now and even those are not enough to protect me from players who can not be bothered to read their traits.

T4s are supposed to be high end content. They are not currently and degraded into open world level play. Asking for pots in t4 is not vile, asking for some class knowledge is not vile either.

"Aren't playing perfectly" means a bit low dps but i have never met someone getting upset over that. This term is usually rephrasing "are borderline useless" used for dps doing support level dps which are the only kind of players getting performance comments and sometimes find their way into t4 or cm fractals.

Nobody is entitled to do t4 fractals. Good players should not have to accept that their usual 40min clear takes 1h30 now because "just having fun" means semi afk watching netflix somehow instead of playing the game now.

The community did not change but the "elitist" and "open world farmer" collide much more often now. either in t4, raids or strikes. You should have tried lvl 50 fractals in 2013, those were far more toxic. Guards were kicked for not knowing when to use wor then. 

 

Didn't say I don't use food or enhancements, but they yelled at people for not using POTS which is stupid to waste on these. I also am typically the healer and I have an infinite offensive potion, but that's not the point. I have had zero issues in pug t4s doing them without being max potions. Requiring and getting upset that someone isn't doing them all for something that's so simple to do is ridiculous. If we have 3 dps, a boon dps, and the other boon healer and everyone is doing their job, it doesn't matter. These are not extremely difficult encounters if people are at least halfway paying attention. If you want to do CMs, then I understand that you want full optimization, but having a "daily T4 lfg" then going to do CMs and getting upset about pots is completely unreasonable.

Edited January 30, 2023 by KawsMeCal.5923

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

6 hours ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

It works by doing what those high end players did when the content was new;  By posting their own LFGs seeking like-minded individuals who are about the same skill level to get through the content.

Good , now we should create systems to help those new player to be matched with each others (auto-lfg) . Theres no need to outsource them into tranning Guilds 😛

Edited January 29, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

23 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Good , now we should create systems to help those new player to be matched with each others (auto-lfg) . Theres no need to outsource them into tranning Guilds 😛

Nobody needs to use training guilds, they can simply make a squad in lfg with appropriate description. Training guilds are just another option.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

48 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nobody needs to use training guilds, they can simply make a squad in lfg with appropriate description. Training guilds are just another option.

Good , we should give more tools (auto-lfg) to the community to find groups with same minded people.

Just an additional option

Edited January 30, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Dreams.3128]

18 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

You run with no-kp/low kp groups that are on similar level as you are. People ran this type of content on release, learning, wiping, trying to get better. New players can team up with each other. You are not entitled to join high-kp groups and their time. Experienced players do not want to do re-runs of their progression from back in the day, every single time they step into fractals today. 

I will just like to point out that this seems counterproductive now given the fact doing all of the Cantha strikes give you 1 KP. So granted, it might take people a long time to get notable KP, but literally KP means nothing now if people are just no-lifing strikes to get where you need to go. No one even really has to do raids anymore because of this. So is KP still a solid way to show that you are ready for something like t4 when strikes are the much easier (and less time consuming) alternative?

[Dibit.6259]

 

9 minutes ago, Dreams.3128 said:

I will just like to point out that this seems counterproductive now given the fact doing all of the Cantha strikes give you 1 KP. So granted, it might take people a long time to get notable KP, but literally KP means nothing now if people are just no-lifing strikes to get where you need to go. No one even really has to do raids anymore because of this. So is KP still a solid way to show that you are ready for something like t4 when strikes are the much easier (and less time consuming) alternative?

I've personally only seen people asking for kp in fractals for cms since that's where you get kp. Most people ask for in normal t4s is food and potions. Also kp tends to dependent on what content you're joining. For example strike kp may not be accepted when joining a fractal cm asking for kp since its not the same kp. Only kp that seems more universal is LI since most raids are consider the harder content. Kp is a good way to filter out some of the newbies or players not yet confident in that area but it doesn't guarantee you'll get the best 😅

 

Note: I know LI can be obtained from other sources but raids are the easiest/quickest way to obtain them

[Dreams.3128]

14 minutes ago, Dibit.6259 said:

 

I've personally only seen people asking for kp in fractals for cms since that's where you get kp. Most people ask for in normal t4s is food and potions. Also kp tends to dependent on what content you're joining. For example strike kp may not be accepted when joining a fractal cm asking for kp since its not the same kp. Only kp that seems more universal is LI since most raids are consider the harder content. Kp is a good way to filter out some of the newbies or players not yet confident in that area but it doesn't guarantee you'll get the best 😅

 

Note: I know LI can be obtained from other sources but raids are the easiest/quickest way to obtain them

Honestly, I didn't even know people would bother to filter out the kinds of KI nowadays just because the whole thing is..tedious at best. Granted, I don't t4s much anymore since its more tedious than say strikes, but I'm really surprised. And I wasn't arguing about the whole KP, but more wondering how do people decide what is what when determining the skill lvl of the player. LI is the one I really only know off the top of head and I figured that if someone was stubborn enough to (me because work gets in the way of my raiding time >:T) that they could just build up LI with strikes and call it a day.

[Dibit.6259]

1 minute ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Honestly, I didn't even know people would bother to filter out the kinds of KI nowadays just because the whole thing is..tedious at best. Granted, I don't t4s much anymore since its more tedious than say strikes, but I'm really surprised. And I wasn't arguing about the whole KP, but more wondering how do people decide what is what when determining the skill lvl of the player. LI is the one I really only know off the top of head and I figured that if someone was stubborn enough to (me because work gets in the way of my raiding time >:T) that they could just build up LI with strikes and call it a day.

Asking for a certain amount of kp is just a way to know how many times people have completed that content. It should at least show the person knows mechanics etc but even then you run the risk of getting someone is has been carried by others that they may not fully understand the fight. As much as you say its tedious it also reduces the risk of getting someone who knows nothing and is joining on a whim and then failing because said person can't pull their weight. Cms and raids do require some level understanding and cooperation, some people don't know/realize that the who thing can fall apart if certain things are being done correctly. Yes this can be restricting to new/unexperienced players or players not having enough of the right kp but at he same time the people lfging don't expect or are willing to teach the fight during that run so it's a way for them to attempt to filter that out.

[The Boz.2038]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:07 PM, Khisanth.2948 said:

some of those are just existing players who switched over to Steam.

Literally not a category, lol

[Khisanth.2948]

2 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Literally not a category, lol

Not account type. Just using it as a launcher.  One reason cited for doing that was it tracks hours played.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

16 hours ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Good , now we should create systems to help those new player to be matched with each others (auto-lfg) . Theres no need to outsource them into tranning Guilds 😛

There's literally nothing that stops them from posting their own group, though but themselves.  The LFG isn't a zero sum game where only the elite are allowed to post.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

17 minutes ago, Andifulated.3482 said:

There's literally nothing that stops them from posting their own group, though but themselves.  The LFG isn't a zero sum game where only the elite are allowed to post.

Or nothing stopping us from implanting extra tools , which might increase the instance population.

Raid sellers might get affected , but its a sucrifice i am willingly to make

Edited January 30, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Or nothing stopping us from implanting extra tools , which might increase the instance population.

In the way you said you want to see it? Pretty sure it would have no positive effects. Anyone wanting to be paired with 10 completely random players on completely random classes/builds already has that option by simply "welcoming all". Anyone who isn't already "welcoming all" probably doesn't really want that option, since if they did, there seem to be absolutely no reason to not announce their own unorganized groups in lfg.

6 hours ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Raid sellers might get affected , but its a sucrifice i am willingly to make

Just like above: seeing how "welcome all" squads can be -and sometimes are- a thing, it seems strongly unlikely any lfg would change anything about the existence of sellers.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Sobx.1758
typos

[Krzysztof.5973]

5 hours ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Honestly, I didn't even know people would bother to filter out the kinds of KI nowadays just because the whole thing is..tedious at best. Granted, I don't t4s much anymore since its more tedious than say strikes, but I'm really surprised. And I wasn't arguing about the whole KP, but more wondering how do people decide what is what when determining the skill lvl of the player. LI is the one I really only know off the top of head and I figured that if someone was stubborn enough to (me because work gets in the way of my raiding time >:T) that they could just build up LI with strikes and call it a day.

Asking for KP is more about experience than skill. As of right now It's only single LI for 4 strikes a week. Then 1 li per strike cm. If I ask on LFG for somebody with 30k+ UFE for example It's about the mindset. I want my runs to be quick and flawless, everybody knows what to do, no time for explaining. If I want to relax I will join no KP normal mode strikes. Takes longer, but you can chill out. If I ask on the raid LFG for 150 Dhuum + Q2 KP It's because I want a fast raid fullclear of all the wings under 3 hours. 

There is always a different reason for people to use KP. That hasn't changed.