Old events, some tied to Legendary item collections, need rebalancing

[MashMash.1645]

So, I've been doing the Aurora and Vision collections on an alt account, and have noticed that some events have become very... awkward to get done. Not that the fights themselves are all that complicated, but that the player population on those maps is so low that completing them before they fail / timeout is not possible, most of the time. I say 'most of the time' because their will always be those golden moments when their just happens to be enough people around at that exact moment. Those golden moments are getting more and more rare in some places. This wasn't an issue at first, and for a while, but as the bulk of the player base has  moved on to the new sexy maps, these old maps just sit there, and this issue will only get worse with time.

 

A few notable examples: Justicar Agatha in Lake Doric. The main problem there used to be she died so fast coming out of Fort Evennia that people missed out. Now it's that their are never enough people to kill her in time. Although she does spawn in the town event also, so  it's not a complete disaster.

 

The corpse Caravans in Istan. These things are like mobile nuclear bunkers, and spawn elites and champs even with few people. The Jade Constructs in Bloodstone Fen. Same issue as the caravans, surrounded by multitudes of White Mantle. Do you like confusion? /s

 

By and large the collections and events are doable, but their are these really awful pain points, that because of time and player numbers shifting elsewhere have become just un-fun and frustrating. They could do with a passover or re-balance or tweak somehow. They seem to have been designed or balanced around having masses of players swamp them (or some sort of minimum number anyway), but those masses are no longer present. I actually thought something like this would happen in Heart of Thorns maps, but they have held up quite well. These other places, not so much.

 

I'm sure their are other events, but I cannot recall them all. What other ones do people know about?

 

Edit. This is also why whenever new content is released I immediately do the story and rush around madly to do any meta events that require lots of people. Because I know at some point, this problem could catch up with that latest bit of content and people will be much scarcer.

Edited January 28, 2023 by MashMash.1645
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[Astralporing.1957]

Yes, the whole idea of LS maps being a transient content players should move on from to newer ones was problematic from the very beginning. When IBS started they mentioned dropping that idea... but then went in doing exactly the same. Shame. At least Drizzlewood for now seems like it might remain relevant for longer.

[Cuks.8241]

Do you use your mentor, commander tag and advertise on map chat? Because from my experience all ls3 and 4 meta events and larger events still attract a ton of people. 

Yeah there are a few that might be a problem but those were most likely always like that (noone does Istan caravans outside dailies). I just recently did Aurora and had a feeling I just breezed through collections in a few days (did the draconic mons backpack in advance). 

[Farohna.6247]

Definitely try these events when the map is part of the dailies.  Makes it much easier to get players.  Pop a mentor or commander tag, call out in map chat.  Tell them you're working on Aurora or Vision, they will come.  Use LFG and put up that you're working on them, helps a lot too.  

[AgentMoore.9453]

Fair point, OP.

Grouping and timing your efforts around player activity and dailies can be good workarounds for most collection havoc, but ideally it'd be great to also have a dedicated maintenance crew that monitors and adjusts content over time as its popularity/balance shifts post-release; all the better if their fixes are dynamic so that they aren't constantly having to rework elements by hand. Patching up broken event chains and stalled NPCs across the board would also be quite helpful, even for things that aren't necessarily part of collections (as they might become part of them down the road). This already happens to some degree, but usually only in small spurts with things that are widely reported/blocking progress. I would very much welcome a push to at least dust off collection-specific content, as I think that'd tie in nicely with LS1 coming back and the game hitting its 10-year milestone.

GW2's a great value for what you pay, but I'm always happy when ArenaNet can go through and tighten a few bolts on older things.

[Doggie.3184]

I don't remember having to do a Corpse Caravan but yeah those Dolyaks may be the tankiest mobs in the game. A full boss train zerg even struggles to kill them.

[Solvar.7953]

I had a recent example of this with the oil flow event at Thunderhead Peaks.  Most nights there was a commander on the map trying to get people to do it, but the fact that there are 3 oil rigs to defend in the first phase is the real problem - it probably needs at least 10 people interested in doing it (3/rig) to work - on many nights, there were fewer than that, and one of the rigs would get destroyed before the last was in working order.  If a champion branded hydra shows up, 2 people are not going to be able to take it down, and if people come from the other rigs to help out, the rigs they leave will get destroyed.  Maybe just increasing the durability of the rigs would work.

This event even failed on one of the dailies where it was part of the daily rotation.  A few nights later, no one else was tagged up, so I did so, and we did manage to complete it, though probably didn't have a lot of people to spare.

Once that first part is done, the other 2 parts of the meta (collecting oil, then killing slugix) were relatively easy.  I guess that might be reasonable - if you can complete the first part, you will be able to complete the meta might be better than the case where you manage to complete the first parts then fail on the last.

But I think this is a case of an event where some minimum population is needed, and most nights, it just isn't there.

 

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Solvar.7953 said:

I had a recent example of this with the oil flow event at Thunderhead Peaks.  Most nights there was a commander on the map trying to get people to do it, but the fact that there are 3 oil rigs to defend in the first phase is the real problem - it probably needs at least 10 people interested in doing it (3/rig) to work - on many nights, there were fewer than that, and one of the rigs would get destroyed before the last was in working order.  If a champion branded hydra shows up, 2 people are not going to be able to take it down, and if people come from the other rigs to help out, the rigs they leave will get destroyed.  Maybe just increasing the durability of the rigs would work.

This event even failed on one of the dailies where it was part of the daily rotation.  A few nights later, no one else was tagged up, so I did so, and we did manage to complete it, though probably didn't have a lot of people to spare.

Once that first part is done, the other 2 parts of the meta (collecting oil, then killing slugix) were relatively easy.  I guess that might be reasonable - if you can complete the first part, you will be able to complete the meta might be better than the case where you manage to complete the first parts then fail on the last.

But I think this is a case of an event where some minimum population is needed, and most nights, it just isn't there.

 

You dont have to kill the hydra just keep its attention and turn it away from said drill so it dont blow on it.

[Fuchslein.8639]

11 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

You dont have to kill the hydra just keep its attention and turn it away from said drill so it dont blow on it.

And you really think, keeping her alive, watching who has Aggro now and then with a few people, while simustaniously watching and Killing all the other mobs is easyer than Killing the Hydra?

I can't remember this Event very vell, i only did it one time. But when He Say's the Hydra can't be killed by two people i think the Hydra is then a Champ? Because vet hydras are easily killed but i slightly remember the Hydra in this Event was way more Bulky. And i think you also need to get oil to the Machines, while watching all this, when i remember correctly.

So yeah, good luck trying your Strategie.

[Einsof.1457]

I got aurora and vision last year while most people were doing EOD and had no issues really I just had to take the initiative, tag up, announce to map to join tag for whatever event, and people came. Easy peasy. 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Einsof.1457

[Linken.6345]

5 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

And you really think, keeping her alive, watching who has Aggro now and then with a few people, while simustaniously watching and Killing all the other mobs is easyer than Killing the Hydra?

I can't remember this Event very vell, i only did it one time. But when He Say's the Hydra can't be killed by two people i think the Hydra is then a Champ? Because vet hydras are easily killed but i slightly remember the Hydra in this Event was way more Bulky. And i think you also need to get oil to the Machines, while watching all this, when i remember correctly.

So yeah, good luck trying your Strategie.

Nope you dont the champion hydra despawn when you start collecting oil.

And yes if you know what you are doing you can keep aggro of hydra and kill other things attacking the drill with range weapons.

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

And you really think, keeping her alive, watching who has Aggro now and then with a few people, while simustaniously watching and Killing all the other mobs is easyer than Killing the Hydra?

Well, if killing hydra is easier then just do that. But the person he was responding to literally said: "If a champion branded hydra shows up, 2 people are not going to be able to take it down", so that's the alternative.

[Solvar.7953]

I will also add that with a somewhat disorganized group, it can be hard to get everyone to do optimum tactics.  But even if a hydra does not show up, it may be hard for 2 people to kill the spawning icebrood fast enough to prevent the oil rig from being destroyed.

Now if you get enough people, doing this event is not a problem, but the OP of the thread was that for some events, it is hard enough to get enough people, and I was just adding that this is such an event that could use some tweaking.

There are also lots of factors involved - in my case, I play late in evenings on PST, so that event happens at 10:45 PM PST.  So it is likely to have fewer people (most of east coast is probably in bed).  Saying 'play at a more popular time' isn't really a great solution to these problems either - people play when it is convenient for them, and I'm not going to re-arrange my schedule for a computer game.

 

[Fuchslein.8639]

2 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Nope you dont the champion hydra despawn when you start collecting oil.

And yes if you know what you are doing you can keep aggro of hydra and kill other things attacking the drill with range weapons.

And you think Most people there know what they do? Why make a already dificult Event even more dificult when anet could Just scale it better?

When i Made this Event after i failed for days even with comms and Apples and LFG, we where Like 5-10 Players at every Spot and even then Had Problems because Most of OW-player are Not geared/skilled(which is totally fine) for optimal dmg-output whitout dying any few minutes. When anet can't motivate people to optimize their Playstyle they should Stop Putting These few Events in the Game which then get abandoned after a Short time uu. There are thank godness Not much of These Events who are coupled with achievements and super hard, but the Point that they exist and Sometimes so hard to get because No one wants to Play them even with lfg, comms and everything is Just ridiculous in my mind. And Not everyone has Friends or a guild who can tackle such stuff either. Because, why should they? 90% of ow content is braindead 111 smashing and then there are These "gems" xx.

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 

I have No Idea how i deleted a quote on Handy ... Don't want to discuss with this Person.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Fuchslein.8639

[Sobx.1758]

27 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

And you think Most people there know what they do? Why make a already dificult Event even more dificult when anet could Just scale it better?

Then maybe you should tell the initial poster what to do, because for now within the context of that exchange ("If a champion branded hydra shows up, 2 people are not going to be able to take it down") you basically said "if you can't kill hydra with 2 people, it's easier to kill hydra". On the other hand what Linken did was saying "if you can't kill hydra, there's another solution, [presented alternative]". If you don't see the difference here, oh well.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Fuchslein.8639]

7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Then maybe you should tell the initial poster what to do, because for now within the context of that exchange ("If a champion branded hydra shows up, 2 people are not going to be able to take it down") you basically said "if you can't kill hydra with 2 people, it's easier to kill hydra". On the other hand what Linken did was saying "if you can't kill hydra, there's another solution, [presented alternative]". If you don't see the difference here, oh well.

Gosh ... I Said it's easyer to kill a VET thats why i adumed they talked about a Champ,which in this context Is hard to handle. Because i played this Event one time and then ignored it Like all the other people, so i have No idea. Just annoyed that ot took me so Long to get this event. And my answer was for linken Not the person who asked.

Sorry but what is youre Problem?

When you don't understand what i wrote than eventuell ask, instead of Putting word's in my mouth and ignoring stuff people say and Take stuff Out of context.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Fuchslein.8639

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Gosh ... I Said it's easyer to kill a VET thats why i adumed they talked about a Champ,which in this context Is hard to handle. Because i played this Event one time and then ignored it Like all the other people, so i have No idea. Just annoyed that ot took me so Long to get this event. And my answer was for linken Not the person who asked.

Not sure about that, you seemed to be saying there "it's easier to kill them" and then right in the next sentence "I can't remember this Event very vell, i only did it one time. But when He Say's the Hydra can't be killed by two people i think the Hydra is then a Champ?", so it seems you already assumed it's about champion hydra which wouldn't make it easier to kill? I'm a bit confused by the train of thought in that post, that's all.

6 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Sorry but what is youre Problem?

No problems here, just pointing out that if someone says it's hard to kill it with 2 people, responding with "it's easier to kill it" isn't really giving a solution to anything.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Fuchslein.8639]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Not sure about that, you seemed to be saying there "it's easier to kill them" and then right in the next sentence "I can't remember this Event very vell, i only did it one time. But when He Say's the Hydra can't be killed by two people i think the Hydra is then a Champ?", so it seems you already assumed it's about champion hydra which wouldn't make it easier to kill? I'm a bit confused by the train of thought in that post, that's all.

No problems here, just pointing out that if someone says it's hard to kill it, responding with "it's easier to kill it" isn't really giving a solution to anything.

As i Said IN THIS CONTEXT with pve people in mind and Just a few people there it SHOULD be easier to kill such a Big thread instead of trying to Bring someone to playing doggy with this Thing while one Blow can wipe a full group.

Sure when there is someone who is skilled enough, but how often do you geht such a Person? I Play raids and never heard that you can Kite a Mob, because i know it that These Just Change Aggro then and now.

It's easy to Just Put stuff in the rooms Like linken Always does. As it people wouldn't already do all this when it was this easy ...

Edited January 29, 2023 by Fuchslein.8639

[Khisanth.2948]

There are many events that can be done with smalls numbers if you assume all the people knows what they are doing but that is one hell of an assumption.

For example at the first drill it is easy to get the hydra stuck to the pipe on the  ground but people will "helpfully" come over and put it off instead and into the drill instead.

[Fuchslein.8639]

7 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

There are many events that can be done with smalls numbers if you assume all the people knows what they are doing but that is one hell of an assumption.

For example at the first drill it is easy to get the hydra stuck to the pipe on the  ground but people will "helpfully" come over and put it off instead and into the drill instead.

There, i never knew this was a Thing because i don't Play pve this much And even less this annoying Events. So when No one tells this in the map Chat how should we know?

But even then, there are Always people who even with Announcement they don't listen because they don't have the Chat Open are Just so focused on TS and the Event, Like me.

So why has anet to make Events where you need to cheese Mobs in Order to complete them?

To this day i Miss achievements, because i missed the Primetime and can't find people doing them even with lfg, comm or Friends.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Fuchslein.8639

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

So why has aber to make Events where you need to cheese Mobs in Order to complete them?

The mobs don't need to be cheesed in oder to complete the events. Cheesing them that way (which I never did either) is mostly an attempt to make the events easier.

2 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

To this day i Miss achievements, because i missed the Primetime and can't find people doing them even with lfg, comm or Friends.

I did many of the achievements past their "primetime" (if only because I simply didn't care to go for them before). Saying that the players needed to be on those maps close to release to complete them (and their achievements) is a misconception. Those maps naturally will be less played, but the events still scale and players are still there. Pretty sure tagging creating a group in lfg in advance for the events we want to go for helps, even if it's not a magical recipe for 100% success rate (and don't get me wrong: it isn't, but it still increases the chance for people to notice and join the event/map).

[Linken.6345]

25 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

It's easy to Just Put stuff in the rooms Like linken Always does.

What do this mean?

And yes it is quite clear you did not read the one I was responding to because you would have seen we were talking about a champion.

22 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

If a champion branded hydra shows up, 2 people are not going to be able to take it down,