Renown Hearts and Map Completion

[kharmin.7683]

3 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

It's what I call pay-to-not-play, which is buying a game and then paying money to skip parts of it. It's not necessarily the same as pay-to-win because you don't always 'win' or gain anything significantly useful, it's just a weird trend of people wanting to buy big, long games designed to take a lot of time and then being willing to pay even more money to remove the inconvenience of actually playing them.

I don't disagree with you here.  Point being that anything that allows players to skip content is often decried as P2W around here.

[Cuks.8241]

I dont really do world completion, only if I need gift. But in general I think its fine. There are a few annoying hearths but I can live with that.

What I would like is to somehow get a hint where that last POI is hidden. You know when you are missing a poi and you think you discovered all of the map and you just have no clue in which corner or edge that last poi is hidden. Maybe if you are missing only the 1 last objective on the map, a scout would give you a hint for direction.

[robertthebard.8150]

1 minute ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I dont really do world completion, only if I need gift. But in general I think its fine. There are a few annoying hearths but I can live with that.

What I would like is to somehow get a hint where that last POI is hidden. You know when you are missing a poi and you think you discovered all of the map and you just have no clue in which corner or edge that last poi is hidden. Maybe if you are missing only the 1 last objective on the map, a scout would give you a hint for direction.

Doesn't the map already do that if you click on POI, it highlights them?  Maybe I'm misremembering it, but it seems like it does.

[Cuks.8241]

6 minutes ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

Doesn't the map already do that if you click on POI, it highlights them?  Maybe I'm misremembering it, but it seems like it does.

Only if you uncovered the fog. If there is still some nook or a cave somewhere which is still covered in fog, it doesnt.

[Fueki.4753]

19 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

What I would like is to somehow get a hint where that last POI is hidden. You know when you are missing a poi and you think you discovered all of the map and you just have no clue in which corner or edge that last poi is hidden. Maybe if you are missing only the 1 last objective on the map, a scout would give you a hint for direction.

The Content Finder tool should be able to point you in the right direction, unless you deactivated it pointing you towards objectives. And you can hover over the names of maps on the world map to see which maps are incomplete.

I don't know what else one would need to find PoIs.

[Fuchslein.8639]

I personally HATE map completion. This is why i have No legys(besides the raid-legy) on my new Account. But i personally wouldn't find this a good solution. It's normal that stuff Takes time in an MMO. Anet would be stupid to fasten Things Up even more. There needs to be stuff that keeps Player ingame.

But the reason i hate map completion, esspecially Hearts is, that it's super generic and monotone fir the Most parts. There are only a few Hearts who are actually fun. The Rest is mostly kill as much Mobs, as fast as possible to fill that Heart. It's normal mmo-stuff with a little Story behind and Most Times it isn't worth it to actually do the hearth as Intendet, but rather to cheese it with Killing stuff or doing the Same Thing over and over again.

You could say, Well youre own fault when you Just do it this way. But the other Option would be to Spend even more with Something that isn't fun for me.

When Hearts actually where fun and more interactive, Like tied to fun Events with Here and there some challenges i Had way more fun and would do them more often. For example, i really like Hero Points of Hot and stuff. It's challenging(for me personally) and fun and you actually have to Play the Game and Not Just Push 1111 or interact over and over again.

But that are Dreams.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Fuchslein.8639

[Cuks.8241]

3 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The Content Finder tool should be able to point you in the right direction, unless you deactivated it pointing you towards objectives. And you can hover over the names of maps on the world map to see which maps are incomplete.

I don't know what else one would need to find PoIs.

In 6 years of playing I never figured out how that thing works. In truth I didnt bother that much. The 2 times I actually tried it for exactly the reason I explained it was telling me to go to the next map. In the end it took me less time to just go through wiki map and figure out on which edge of the map the kitten poi is hiding.

But if I ever do completion again and come to the same problem Ill try to set it up. 

The hovering over map names and objectives is clear. 

[LSD.4673]

4 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

That's because of playtesting.

There were no hearts originally. The game was supposed to rest entirely on dynamic events. Players used to traditional MMOs were lost without questgivers and quest hubs, so hearts were added to give focus, in the hope that players would get drawn into areas and then interact with the events.

It's not that ANet flubbed their original vision. It's that a portion of players couldn't adapt.

But the core events are atrocious. "escort slow moving npc", "kill wave after wave of enemy (who spawns from nowhere and has 5 seconds of invuln)", "collect things and give them to the person". They're worse than MMO quests, as well as being far between.

HoT (and Silverwastes/Dry Top) was when the game's event system finally got anywhere. Everything preceding that was terrible.

On top of that, hearts don't correlate in any way shape or form to event locations. They're just dumb quests.

[Zohane.7208]

7 hours ago, Sarius.9285 said:

world record is meaningless cause that's the optimum....last time I did it on a new character with all mounts, but not level boosts, it took me about 35 hours, so roughly one hour per map, without hearts it was closer to 15 minutes per map

15 minutes per map would mean 4 maps per hour, or just over 6 hours to map complete, or just about 1/6 of the time compared to with hearts. That would be a serious devaluation of map completion.

 

I of course agree that speedruns are sort of meaningless since they are done by some very dedicated people who highly optimize. However, it shows that it's indeed possible to get below 10 hours - and without using hero points from WvW or other helpers. Even 35 hours to complete to entire core game's maps is a very fast. 1000g (2 gifts of exploration at 500g each) for 35 hours comes to about 29g per hour - close top income. At 6 hours it would be 166g/hour.

[costepj.5120]

30 minutes ago, LSD.4673 said:

On top of that, hearts don't correlate in any way shape or form to event locations. They're just dumb quests.

That's blatantly false. Many (most?) hearts contribute to the narrative of the map.

[voltaicbore.8012]

3 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Only if you uncovered the fog. If there is still some nook or a cave somewhere which is still covered in fog, it doesnt.

Hovering over the heart icon, if the remaining hearts are in a fogged area, will at least ping the scout that reveals the heart. It would be nice if that could be extended to PoIs.

I'm okay with core hearts being the way they are. I use map completion to farm keys on characters I'm going to keep, as well as using that opportunity as a sort of personal RP. From a game-story-logic standpoint, I think it helps solidify why so many people know the Commander and generally think positively of them. I try to have each character's journey make sense, although a lot of it becomes "go here next because that's what would make sense without teleportation."

[Sobx.1758]

Hover over PoIs on the map and the undiscovered ones should shine, I think? If you can't see any, there should be that "undiscovered area" icon somewhere: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Map#Other_map_icons Not that it's so great, but it's something 🤷‍♂️

Edited February 1, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Einsof.1457]

No.

 

[Mistwraithe.3106]

I'll add my voice to the list of people who is pretty happy doing hearts and feels they add to the story and the game. I also feel that it helps bring more experienced players back into the lower level maps which is generally a nice thing.

[LSD.4673]

9 hours ago, costepj.5120 said:

That's blatantly false. Many (most?) hearts contribute to the narrative of the map.

What does that have to do with my point, exactly?

[Jukhy.2431]

Bit disappointed I didn't see the "kharmin answer" so just gonna add it: "I'd rather have the resources spent elsewhere."

[Mordachai.1896]

They already made mapcompletion easier by not requiring WvW maps to be completed aswell, like they were in the beginning. 

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

What does that have to do with my point, exactly?

Seeing how you said they don't correlate to their location... it has everything to do with your point since it's a direct answer to what you said.

[Infinity.2876]

Using a overlay like BlishHUD or Taco to give the heart percentage gained by doing a task for the heart. If you compare it with the time it takes to do each task you can efficiently complete a heart.

 

Formula: 

t = time it takes to complete task (minutes)

x = percentage of heart completion (%)

(t + "2" (value changes depending on time) x) = value

compare values with other task values to find.

[LSD.4673]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Seeing how you said they don't correlate to their location... it has everything to do with your point since it's a direct answer to what you said.

Hearts and events happen in totally different parts of rhe map 90% of the time. 

GW2s questing system is second only to the people who jump to defend it in terms of ridiculousness.

[robertthebard.8150]

On 2/1/2023 at 12:48 PM, Cuks.8241 said:

Only if you uncovered the fog. If there is still some nook or a cave somewhere which is still covered in fog, it doesnt.

Cool, but it would still give you a clue as to where to look, based on that.  Got a foggy corner, look there, for example.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

2 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

Hearts and events happen in totally different parts of rhe map 90% of the time. 

GW2s questing system is second only to the people who jump to defend it in terms of ridiculousness.

I complete many hearts while in the process of doing events so I'm not quite sure what you are saying.

[Shadamehr.1284]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:59 PM, costepj.5120 said:

Why should it take less time? Map completion is the most fun I have in the game. All my cast of characters have full world completion and my key runners complete a few individual maps each week.

Totally agree with you, all my 9 classes have run through all maps with good luck on keys. Players coming from other MMOs just want everything handed to them on a plate without having to work for it. I hope Anet doesn't cave into to them. And besides, with no new story content for 339 days and counting since EoD's release what else are they going to do ???

Edited February 3, 2023 by Shadamehr.1284
missed a word

[Zohane.7208]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:48 PM, Cuks.8241 said:

Only if you uncovered the fog. If there is still some nook or a cave somewhere which is still covered in fog, it doesnt.

There's an option called "Content Guide" (Options panel, first page). If you set that to "Hide event and personal story" it shows you the nearest "thing" that will advance map completion - heart, poi, vista, hero point, or fogged area. I use that when I find myself lacking something like a poi.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

As someone who's  done map comp way too many times (I haven't checked in a while, but I think I have about 30 or so characters through most of the world), heart tasks either complete so fast that I'm sitting there wondering why they're there, or take so long to finish that they're just a slog.  Some of theme even have anti-other player mechanics where other players can interfere with getting them done.  Others just scale better with events that rarely happen nearby.  The problem is, those tasks are there to show people where the events are.  They're not really a good mechanic for players who already understand how GW2 works with its dynamic event system.